00:00:14.610 - 00:00:39.100

Today is the 9th. Of August 1994, this is Harvey Schwartz. I'm in San Francisco and I'm with uh Carol Schwartzino. Can you pronounce your name, Carol? I always have trouble. I'm sorry. Queno Queno. And we're going to, First of all, we can ask you a couple

00:00:39.100 - 00:01:03.230

of background rank now in serial number of kinds of questions like um where you were born, when you were When when you went to school, a couple of things like that. I was born in San Francisco. Um, 1929. Uh, Lived here for 4 years. My mother,

00:01:04.780 - 00:01:36.820

Was, um, Well, let me say my father uh was from Switzerland. He immigrated over in about 1920. Um, came to San Francisco, met my mother, married. When I was 4 years old. Uh, my family returned to Switzerland. Um Father, mother, My older sister, who was my

00:01:36.820 - 00:02:15.170

half sister, Uh, the 4 of us went over for 2 years. Returned again to Southern California. A little bit, On my, Parents Because, My mother, A rather complex life. Married 3 times and had children by each marriage and so I might refer to various brothers and

00:02:15.170 - 00:02:59.530

sisters. Marriage Um, Had three, Children My oldest brother, Joe. Uh, who's deceased, Um, my, Second brother, Drew. And my sister Nancy, who died, uh, when she was 20 Uh, then my mother married her second husband, Um, And had one son, David. Um, Second husband was a

00:02:59.530 - 00:03:23.680

socialist. It's the influence of that family. My mother that, Gave me my political direction. Uh, he was a socialist. What was his name again? Did, did you. Uh, Richard Wasdahl was the husband. David Wasdahl is the son. He was from North Dakota, Norwegian, and they were,

00:03:24.930 - 00:03:54.120

And the whole family was, was socialist. His younger sister is. Still alive, Her family is, they're like cousins to me, though they're only my half brother's cousins. Um, I, I actually did an oral history of her and, um, she talked about the fact that Eugene's Debs

00:03:54.120 - 00:04:24.310

used to visit and stay at their farm when he was touring. Um, they were involved in the socialist agrarian, I can't remember the name of, organization that managed to elect, I believe, a governor. Of North Dakota at one time, Anyway, so there's old socialist background there,

00:04:24.690 - 00:04:50.650

uh, The marriage, unfortunately, didn't last. My mother married this young Swiss emigre who was my father. Who came from a very large family in Switzerland, French speaking. Uh, from Geneva and Lausanne. Um, the family, uh, I think my father is the only one that ever escaped.

00:04:50.850 - 00:05:20.990

Um, Certainly he had, 4 sisters and 2 brothers. Uh, the four sisters spent, All their time writing letters to all their nieces and nephews. Uh, I have never had a birthday where I didn't get letters. I have, Removed from the family, but, Always kept in touch

00:05:21.370 - 00:05:48.300

and in the last 20 years or so, there's been a lot of visits back and forth. Uh, I've gone over there about 4 times, and every year I get a visit. My cousin. I currently have one listing here. So with. All of that, two sections of

00:05:48.300 - 00:06:14.940

family. I thought I ought to sort of lay out the scorecard. Oh, that's good. At the beginning. Um When When we returned from Switzerland, we didn't come back to San Francisco. We moved to the Southern California, uh, to a town. Called Castaic, which was on old

00:06:14.940 - 00:06:37.890

Highway 99, right at the beginning of the ridge route, about 50 miles. Los Angeles. We actually bought a ranch 10 miles up a canyon from Caste. I started 1st grade. I actually had started school in Switzerland and when I came back, I did not speak much

00:06:37.890 - 00:07:02.470

English, but within 6 months, I had completely lost all my French and Regained my English. My father would never speak French over here, and my mother never was. The language, so it was never spoken and I, I lost it and I've never been able to, Get

00:07:02.470 - 00:07:33.310

it back, Success Um, I started school in Casteke, which was a union grammar school, 1st through 8th grade. Union? Union and that they had eliminated all the one room schoolhouses. Uh, It, um, Incorporated an area with a radius of about 35 or 40 miles in all

00:07:33.310 - 00:08:04.070

directions. Had two buses that would go and collect children, uh, from all the different canyons around Caste. Uh, there were, Uh, from the 1st to the 8th grade, about 100 students, anywhere from 80 to 100, there were 8 to 12 children in each grade. And Generally,

00:08:04.300 - 00:08:30.660

1st, 2nd, and 3rd grade were in one room, 4th, 5th, and 6th in one room, 7th and 8th. And One room. And the 7th and 8th were taught by the principal. There was a principal and two teachers in the whole school. Um, That was, Uh, schooling

00:08:31.190 - 00:08:58.990

except for a year and a half when I was in San Francisco. Um, my mother, Had a sister in Los Angeles and a half sister, San Francisco. And she frequently left the ranch and would, Come up Um, this was during the 30s, during the depression. We

00:08:58.990 - 00:09:23.920

tried to be farmers but were very unsuccessful and pretty soon there was just no cash. My father, Was a carpenter by trade. But could, Was not a very assertive, Not, uh, he had a strong French accent. Um, it was difficult for him to go out and

00:09:23.920 - 00:09:46.070

get work. Um, My mother, on the other hand, was a crackerjack, A white collar worker, secretary. And every place she'd ever worked, they always tried to get her back. Uh, so, from time to time, she would come up to San Francisco, work a little while, get,

00:09:47.100 - 00:10:16.300

Money And then usually return to the ranch cause she did love it there. Um, The marriage, Well, my, Parents fought a lot, but there was still, Everything was sort of out in the open. They would argue. But There wasn't hostility, it just. I remember a lot

00:10:16.300 - 00:10:44.430

of arguments and then the separations. Part of it was that. My mother had, Other children. Who were having hard times. And Her two oldest boys were raised by their father. But in 1937 he died. Uh, they were in high school by then and an aunt kind

00:10:44.430 - 00:11:11.860

of looked after them. But my 3rd brother. Was raised both by the father and my mother. And he bounced back and forth and had some pretty hard times. Um, My sister was mostly with us, but when she became high school age, had to leave the ranch.

00:11:11.950 - 00:11:27.640

You could not go to high school from the ranch. So she went to live with other relatives and there was no money to give them to pay for her room and board. So that was one reason why my mother, Would go get a job from time

00:11:27.640 - 00:11:45.720

to time. At least that was the excuse she gave. My mother always had a noble excuse for all her moving around, but she really was a nomad at heart. Um When I was 10 years old. I came to San Francisco and lived here for a year

00:11:45.720 - 00:12:13.720

and a half. 5th and 6th grade and then I went back to cast a, Um, Finished school there. Um, That was the year my father died also from an accident. What year was this now? 19, well, the accident was the end of 1941. Um, I was,

00:12:15.960 - 00:12:53.890

12 Um And, um, He died the beginning of 1942. It was, An infection that turned to gangrene, A minor accident. But it was fatal due to poor medical care and the absence of antibiotics. It was before antibiotics were available. Um, So from then on, the ranch

00:12:53.890 - 00:13:17.700

became a place, uh, that, uh, Was not a working ranch. My older brothers, by this time World War 2 had started. My older brothers were in the Navy. Uh, we would, um, Go to the ranch as much as we could, but mostly, uh, my mother was

00:13:17.700 - 00:13:43.630

working in Castake for a while. We had a place to live there that she rented, and then we moved to Los Angeles in 1943. Um And it was there that she first. Got a job working for labor attorneys, I should backtrack a little bit. Yeah, I

00:13:43.630 - 00:14:07.790

was gonna say there is there more, is there more of a political, uh, I need to backtrack on your mom, yeah, uh, back to 1941, 1940 and 1941 when my mother left the ranch. Um, Came to San Francisco. Got a job and that was the time

00:14:08.150 - 00:14:35.430

she, she was here almost 2 years. I joined her after about 6 months after she got a job and a place to live. She had joined the Communist Party then. The influence of. Her, Former husband. Who never remarried. But the real type was with, This husband's

00:14:35.430 - 00:15:06.090

sister, which husband's sister, this former husband's sister, uh-huh, OK. A woman named Imogene. Rosdahl Robertson. My mother had met her, When she was a young, young girl, young woman, um, And they were lifelong friends. Um, they had lived together, um, on and off in between marriages

00:15:06.090 - 00:15:31.230

and so forth. Uh, and she was the socialist and she was a member of the communist party over. They lived in Alameda then, and when my mother came up. Uh, it was to help pay support for my sister who was living with imaging. Um, So there

00:15:31.230 - 00:15:54.250

was a very close tie there. There was a lifelong tie. And it was very close. It was like, A third sister, really. Um, except it was a relationship of choice and they shared common ideals and political involvement and so forth. So my mother joined the Communist

00:15:54.250 - 00:16:25.950

Party probably in 1939. And was active here in San Francisco. Um, Until 1941, I believe the party changed from a party to a communist political association. It was the Browder period. Um I. It's also the, you know. Yeah, and I was, that was my first, um,

00:16:26.790 - 00:16:50.120

Um, exposure to political activity. I was 10 years old, but we used to go hear Archie Brown on street meetings. That's when he was running for governor. Um, my mother every week went to hear John Pittman lecture every Wednesday night. Uh, Wednesday night, I either went

00:16:50.120 - 00:17:10.850

with her or I was left home alone. Thursday nights was her night to go to the party meetings. The whole blooming county, all of San Francisco had communist party meetings on Thursday nights and I always went to stay with my aunt Isabel on Thursday night and

00:17:10.850 - 00:17:38.270

listen to all the radio programs cause she had a radio but I don't think we did. Um, Uh, there were, In San Francisco. There was an occasional event I went to, uh, I remember once when I went to hear John Pittman, mama pointed out Mike Quinn

00:17:38.270 - 00:17:54.760

and his wife who were in the audience. Uh, that's the only time I think I ever saw him. Uh, but he looked just like his picture, cause he used to have the little masthead in the People's World. Uh, through the association with imaging, even before my

00:17:54.760 - 00:18:21.240

mother came to San Francisco, she was a charter subscriber to the People's World, and it used to come down to the ranch every day. Every weekday. In the mail. So, um, That Was, uh, sort of gave me claim to being a red diaper baby, I guess.

00:18:21.540 - 00:18:45.110

Oh, I should think so. Um, do, do you, do you at all remember the, the, the parade for Mooney in 1939 or was, or, or did you? No, I, I. Um, I only came up in, I think 1940. I'm not sure. In any event, I don't.

00:18:45.530 - 00:19:11.670

I don't think I was here. OK, um, can I, um. Uh Let's keep on this way and try it and if then if it still seems too low. We can, uh, I'll be happy to try. OK. Um, At that time Um, you're going to school in

00:19:11.670 - 00:19:31.820

the city, if I recall. Did you, did you have any interaction over politics with other children and how do they respond? In other words, you know, Does a person at that age, you're 10 years old, you know, your mother's committed activist, um, You know Is there

00:19:31.960 - 00:19:57.200

interaction with other children? Is there any, is there, does that influence, you know, your thinking? Do you understand these concepts, you see what I'm saying? It's like for kids. I, my best friend was a young Japanese girl. Uh, uh, A very wealthy, Uh, family, my mother,

00:19:57.530 - 00:20:18.090

when I first came up, we lived in a rooming house on Pacific Avenue and Laguna Street, a very ritzy area, but it was an old rooming house and we just had a housekeeping room with a bath down the hall. Um But I went to Pacific Heights

00:20:18.090 - 00:20:55.750

School. Um, Pains were going during that year and a half. One was, uh, you did not buy anything made in Japan. It was support for the Chinese who were under attack from Japan. Um, I had this Japanese girlfriend, Gave me a few gifts. And I had

00:20:55.750 - 00:21:16.810

to hide them. Because they were not only made in Japan, I believe one was a Japanese box and. It was a lovely family and they were very generous to me. My mother was working. I didn't get home till 5:30 or 6. I was terrified when I

00:21:16.810 - 00:21:37.170

first came up because I had never been alone in the city before. I was alone on the ranch, but that. I was comfortable there. Um But that family uh took me in. They, I used to go home with this girl every afternoon and play at her.

00:21:38.350 - 00:22:08.130

Until 5 or 5:30 when my mother came home. And, um, it made the whole experience much better. Now, her mother was English. Her father was Japanese and he was, uh, uh, high executive in, uh, the NYK shipping line. Um I had a chauffeured limousine that took

00:22:08.150 - 00:22:27.430

him to work and on occasion on the afternoons when I used to go stay at Aunt Isabel's when my mother went to communist party meetings. Uh, the limousine, uh, on its way down to the financial district to pick up the father would drop me off where

00:22:27.430 - 00:22:54.450

my aunt lived, um, which was great fun and, and, um, my girlfriend and I knew the chauffeur and, and, uh, he was a very, uh, friendly, jolly, Uh, I was only at that school for 6, for 1 semester, and then my mother moved, uh, in with

00:22:54.590 - 00:23:26.890

a, uh, woman who was a Communist Party member. Lived on Knob Hill, Washington and Taylor. She was, um, Gladys Axelroth, who was the mother of Felice. Clark Stratton, um, Felice. I, I guess a couple of marriages in there, but Felice was a party functionary, uh, and

00:23:26.890 - 00:23:51.060

later. Um, was secretary of the labor school and then went to work for the ILWU until she retired. She was in the benefit fund office, so. At the time we lived with her mother, uh, Felice was, uh, in England, uh, but the mother was a dressmaker,

00:23:51.980 - 00:24:24.630

And amongst her customers were many young women, including Carolyn Decker, who I Uh, nap. Once and um. That was in 1940 before she married Gladstein, but she was at that point, I think, an organizer for farm workers and so forth. Um The other campaign that I

00:24:24.630 - 00:24:39.750

mentioned was the Yanks are not coming. Oh no, I don't think, oh, OK, you didn't mention it yet, but you said there was a second issue. Yeah, the Yanks are not coming. OK. Yanks are not coming, uh, that was a campaign up until June of 1941

00:24:39.750 - 00:25:12.870

when the Soviet Union entered the war. Um, and I used to wear a button to school. Um, I don't think it caused too much. Uh Comment But, um, I, that was my only political expression that I can remember. The 3rd school I went to, Uh, as

00:25:12.870 - 00:25:42.880

I say, my mother moved around a lot. Uh, we stayed with Gladys about 6 months. And then we moved into Columbus Towers down at Kearney and uh Jackson, um, which was a place. Studios for a lot of. Transients and artists. My mother always loved the building

00:25:42.940 - 00:26:10.090

and she had a way of uh. Um, moving into places that she liked and so, She furnished it from furniture she got real cheap in Chinatown stores. And I went to a school at Broadway and Powell called Jean Parker. And it was all Chinese, um, at

00:26:10.090 - 00:26:38.490

that point. I was, Uh Children in the classroom that wasn't Chinese. And I actually, uh, it went to the 6th grade and I graduated from that school. I would, would have gone on to junior high then, At Francisco, but we returned to the ranch at that

00:26:38.490 - 00:27:03.800

point. OK. Can I ask you, um, what happened to your Japanese friend? Do you? Her father was arrested after Pearl Harbor. I did come up and visit her. Um, He was put in a detention. The mother and her older sister and she were still living on

00:27:03.800 - 00:27:28.790

Pacific Avenue, but they relocated to Minnesota. And we corresponded for a while, Um, if you didn't live on the coast, you didn't have to go into a camp. And they were able to move to Minnesota and during the war, uh, they, they went to Japan. He

00:27:28.790 - 00:27:49.470

returned to Japan, but for my friend, her name was Ronnie, uh, It was Her first trip to Japan. They went on the Grypshone. It was the exchange ship that went over. When, when was this? Was this? Well, it might have, I don't remember the exact date.

00:27:49.560 - 00:28:15.720

It might have been 1943, somewhere around there. Uh, I saw her in 1942 before relocation took place or while it was taking place, but I remember I went to, uh, visit her. And They had set up in, uh, there was a room and a bathroom in

00:28:15.720 - 00:28:45.180

the basement. It was sort of a guest room. And they had put blackout curtains and padded the windows and filled it up with food. Um, In anticipation of bombing. Um, One reason, Her father was, Put immediately in detention. Or jail, I don't know what you want

00:28:45.180 - 00:29:13.590

to call it. Uh, was because he, he knew of, The attack, all NYK ships had been pulled out. Of, um, the area, By the attack you mean Pearl Harbor? Yeah. Um, It was assumed that he knew. Sure. Because everyone knew that war was imminent, but they

00:29:13.590 - 00:29:38.460

felt that he had prior knowledge. Uh So, uh, I, Heard through other friends that she returned to this country, but I've never had any contact with her. That Seattle had been where they were, uh, he had worked before he came to San Francisco and I have

00:29:38.460 - 00:30:00.920

friends that said they knew the family in, OK. Um, before we go back to the farm, Um Do we, do we actually have your mother's name? Did you actually give it at some point? No, my mother's, uh, my father's name was Robert Cueno and, um, he

00:30:00.920 - 00:30:37.280

was, Known as Robert. Here and even all my non European, Cousins called him Rahbert, R A H B E A R, Rahbert. Um, my mother's name was Margaret. Uh, her maiden name was Hickey. Uh, Her, but she was known as Margaret Koino. Um We need to

00:30:37.280 - 00:31:08.130

go back to the farm. I have one other question I want to ask you before we go back to the farm. Yeah, well, we'll, we're also almost out of tape, I think. This is Just to Well, no, it's good, it's quite rich, um, um. Um, What

00:31:08.130 - 00:31:33.710

about your dad's politics? Did, did your, did your dad have any political slant on, on the world like your mom did? No, no. Basically, my father was not a political person. Uh-huh. Uh He fully accepted my mother's, Um Involvement and believe me she she would get

00:31:33.710 - 00:31:49.340

involved anywhere when she first moved to Casta she sensed that um. There was a certain amount of graft and corruption going on with the school board. And she uncovered and documented,