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Testing, testing, testing, testing, testing, testing, testing. OK, this is Harvey Schwartz. I'm in Oakland, California with Don Watson. This is the 11th of March 1994 and we're doing our interview with Don um for the um Labor Archives and Research Center at San Francisco State University. And,

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um, Don, can you tell us when you were born and where you were born a little bit about your childhood? Well, I was born in, uh, Illinois, Evanston, Illinois. Uh, actually, my family was, uh, was, uh. Sort of passing through, uh, my father had a newspaper

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job there that uh I think it was the Associated Press and then went on to New York. So, I never did really know Illinois and I actually grew up In uh Long Island, New York. Uh, at first, and then moved to Manhattan when I was about,

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uh, I guess around 8 And I lived in Manhattan until I was 13, and then my family moved out to the San Francisco and that was in In 1943. I was born in 1929. What, um, what month and day were you born? I don't know if

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we've made. 1929. Can you tell me a little bit about the early recollections you have of your childhood? Well, my, my earliest recollections was in uh Long Island. We lived in Floral Park. Uh, and that's my earliest recollection. I always want to, uh, Uh, I guess

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pre-kindergarten or, Whatever that uh We moved to Northport And I lived there And it went into See the first grade at Northport. From 2nd grade on it was on. What do you remember about your dad? Can you tell us just a little bit, kind of generally

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sketch for the listener, um, your dad's career? Morris Watson in the in this early phase in New York. OK, uh, he, uh, he was a newspaper man that had, uh, He was a veteran in World War I. Yeah Didn't, he didn't have any. Great education. I

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think it was the 2 years of high school. decided he wanted to be a newspaper man after One of these did a special Vocational school for veterans. Who wound up editing the newspaper and then Which had never had a newspaper. Worked for the Omaha World Herald.

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Then he caught on with the Associated Press finally. He went to New York and he was involved in writing major stories for the. A Lindbergh kidnapping Major stories and he was considered one of the better reporters. But in 1934 he Read a column by Edward Brew.

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The famous columnists of that time. Saying that there should be a union for a newspaper. To come to his house at such and such a date and so Morris. My father That came and showed up and he was so he's one of the founding group. He

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became one of the vice president. He was the leading organizer in the Associated Press for the Newspaper Guild and So the AP uh fired you. They claimed that he was incompetent or something along those lines, but Nobody around there ever believed that that was, was why,

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and he filed with the uh. The Wagner acted just this is around. 35 around that period, the Wagner Act had passed. And so this was About the first case that started winding its way through the Courts And it worked up to the Supreme Court and actually

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it became the case that was the first case that decided the constitutionality of the Wagner Act. In the meantime, my father got involved in the Federal Theater He was waiting for his, he was out of a job because For his case to be taken care of.

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He was asked to be the director of the Living newspaper. Which was, uh, Quite an enterprise for the Federal Theater in those days. There's a number Ma Productions An injunction granted. You can still uh See these plays they're in the libraries and So that was He

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finally got the reinstated into the Associated Press. He went back to work briefly with the Associated Press and then he Then he got involved in A number of other projects in the late 30s. The American Labor Party, which he was very active. OK, um, that's real

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helpful to orient the reader, and of course, you know, the famous labor case is also covered under. Just for the record, uh. OK, I'd like to call back if we can and get your impressions of living around this situation of your dad's career and his activities

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and how it influenced you. How you experienced these things. Over that period basically. Early 1930s Well, I first remember my father uh uh. In uh when we were at Floral Park and he was uh. Uh, at one point it was during the period when he was

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sort of, uh, They were hard timing Leadership of the Associated Press, who was Kent Cooper was the uh big man there. They put them on the lobster shift so you'd have to. Meanted to, Have his eyes closed, you know, in order to sleep during the day,

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you know, put a piece of black cloth over his eyes and, And then the, uh, You know, during the night. So I, uh, I probably didn't, uh, In that period, you know, get to Uh, to see as much of them, you know, as, as they did

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later. And, uh, I think that I I got to acquainted with the kind of a world he lived in. I just wore it when I moved to Manhattan. With him and then, uh, they were, During the period, When he got involved with the American Labor Party

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because a lot of people were Either it was the American Labor Party or it was the American Newspaper Guild. People would be coming by the house and And I would be meeting them, and I was the only child until I was, uh, 11 years old So,

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uh, It was sort of, I was the only child, so they have. They don't have other people, you know, in the family to play with, you know. So, I did get, uh, I also went on a long extended automobile tour with my father and my mother.

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Uh, it was an organizing, uh, campaign for the Newspaper Guild. This was around 30, 39 and then. We went through the South and he was going to Different, uh, meeting different newspaper people around it, set up chapters and stuff like that, so. Went across the country

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to, Run into San Francisco. How were you greeted in the South, do you recall? What was it, what was it feel like? What was the tone of? Well, that was, uh, to me that was, uh, I I did see the uh the separate uh you got

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on a ferry, you know, and you'd uh and you'd see the the separate uh. Facilities for, for blacks and for whites, you know, colored only and white only. And I thought some of that That aura of the, you know, the Jim Crow, you know, and I,

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uh, and the family was, uh, Um, my mother and father were, Had a, uh, didn't like it, you know, and I also, it struck me the wrong way. What about your dad as a labor organizer? I mean, it wasn't always the safest thing to do in

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the South. He remembered he used to tell a story about. One of the southern Places where Uh, he said that they, they opened up with, um, Um These newspaper men there when they met him, they would open up to sort of test him out possibly to

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they tell a very anti-negro joke or And, uh, and everybody was supposed to laugh and he, uh, he had to sort of, uh, Pretend to laugh somewhat because he figured he wouldn't. These people wouldn't get organized otherwise. And so, uh, that was a kind of a

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compromise that he, He had bad feelings about it. Can you kind of fall back and talk a little bit in the earlier period, like 34, 35, what it was like around the house when all this was, when the guild case was coming down? Do you remember

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what the feeling was like and what your impressions were? I was around, I was living around, I think I was around Northport then. I, I don't know when we moved from Floral Park to Northport. I can't, but they were, uh, and we were sort of away

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from and used to commuting by train into the city, and most of the activity occurred in the city, but Uh, people would come out on weekends and things like that. And, uh, so I, I did catch, uh, I mean, the, uh, newspaper people. So I think

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I caught, uh, Some idea of The kind of a world it was and then he got into the theater things. So he was a pretty um Pretty much in the thick of a, of a lot of things. And I did Catch Many of the things that

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were Do you remember any of the people who came out? I remember you mentioned Victor, um. Uh, you mentioned, um, Wait a minute, yeah, Vito, uh, Mac Antonio, for example, from the I don't think he ever came out. I never saw they had, uh, he had

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a close relationship with, uh, there was a, uh, American Labor Party, uh, council member in New York named Connolly. He used to come by a lot. There was a close relationship. I want to tell a story about Uh, when we were invited over to, uh, Haywood

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Bruin's house. My father, my mother, We went up to Connecticut there and they were going to play cards. He was a card player and they, And um They had uh uh Westbrook Pegler was Pegler was there. And uh And people there that are at all familiar

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with the history, they know that Westbrook Pegger is about the most anti-labor. Uh, columnist there there was, but he was a fellow columnist of, of, uh, Ruins, I guess the columnists have some sort of a Fraternity or anything, but, uh, I, I, uh, I caught the

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mumps as I went out there and, um, So, uh, when, uh, Westbrook and I was on the 2nd floor and I was laying in the They're downstairs and, and Westbrook Pegler said, uh, Asked the room, what are the mumps? And uh And so then I, I,

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maybe I shouldn't, but this is going on a, uh, in, into the archives here at, at. It was the term for Brune used the term for testicles and said that they, they, they blow up as big as. And um And so he Finger went white and

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then he, uh, he, he got up and, uh, he took off. He left. And so Things like that you're called, things like that are good stories, examples are real good in this kind of interviews. That's, that's, that's good. Yeah What about Sitting around the dinner table,

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you know, what kind of conversations did you have with your, I think in the later 30s that this occurred, I think in the later 30s and during his, when he's more. Involved in these different political things. would always ask me what I thought of certain things,

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you know, and So I would have to Engage in conversation. Instinct and I was I was, I think I was, uh, at that time I was interested in, in the politics and. It was a part of my development. Do you know why he made the jump

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from, uh, Don, I was gonna ask you, do you know why he, um, why your dad made the jump from labor union? Um, uh, organizing to the American Labor Party. What, you know, not everybody does that. Did he ever talk about why? Well, he, uh, he

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became, uh, it was his, um, He, he moved more uh toward the left in uh as the thirties emerged, and this was part of his uh In that direction. And he, uh, Worked his way and he got into, uh, they had a, a, uh, factional fight

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within the American Labor Party. The American Labor Party was founded somewhere around I think 1936 by uh Uh, there were two men, Luigi Antonini and Alex Rose, were the, and they were, uh, from the needle days, I think the, the. International Ladies Garment Workers Union. And

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there was I'm not sure if they, Exactly which Beetle and then uh And there was a, a, a factional fight between a grouping that was uh We're close to David Devinsky, the president of the IOGW, and then there was a left wing that Um, Well, Mark

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Antonio was, was a leader. Faction. And so he, uh, he became the, uh, the chair of the committee to rebuild the American Labor Party. And so the, and the, uh, The left wing faction was was in control of, of, of, uh, of New York City, and,

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uh, but they were the, uh, other. Or the Manhattan part. I, I, I, I'm not sure all that, but the uh other uh part of the state was uh controlled by the, uh, it was a statewide party. By the other faction. And so, uh, they had

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this, Battle for control which the Didn't quite make it. I remember they, they had a, some kind of convention up in Albany and uh It was very fierce. Were you there? No, I wasn't there. No. Father described how fierce it was. Anyway, during that period, he

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ran for Congress also. 1940 One of the districts, They call the Silk Stockholm district. It was, uh, it was a time of, uh, well, a lot of people were trooping around the house. So Yeah. I learned, I think I learned a lot of, Politics and things

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at that time. I, I went out and, uh, And have him hand out leaflets for my father, you know, his ring. Converse, yeah. It was. OK, um, was your dad at all associated with the, with the, uh, CPUSA at that time? Yes, he was, uh, he

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worked along with it, uh. And he was sort of a That was a part of the coalition that was involved with the American Labor Party and uh He met with a lot of people, a lot of labor leaders. He was the Uh, till, I think that's

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until 19 uh At some point, he didn't run for reelection, you know, he was also international vice president. American Newspaper Guild So he got involved with, uh, had some dealings with John L. Lewis. And it was a, uh, Oh There's a lot of tough period. They,

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they had, uh, it was just before World War II and uh. There's also the The Hitler-Stalin Pact was signed around then and then there was A period when A lot of coalitions broke up at that. Formations and it was, Things were in flux. Did, did your

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dad talk about, you know, the internal situation, or how did you experience, experience it? What, you know, what do you care to contribute about it? Well, I think that the um uh That that I don't think it was really thoroughly discussed, you know, about the The

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implications of that. The pact and then the, uh, the changes that took place. I can recall that there was a great deal of relief in a sense that When, When Hitler invaded the Soviet Union and It was sort of like uh. Although that, you know, it's

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a terrible thing to have. Nazis coming through, but it was sort of Um, Because of a lot of uneasiness, you know, during that other period, you know, the, about a couple of years. You mean the, the Nazi-Soviet pact from 39 to 41. Um How, how, how

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did your mother experience all these things at this time? Do you remember her talking about all of this very much? Well, she was, she was very active in Uh, she worked for the, the com the uh community chest, and, uh, she, Um She was active in

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the, it was something called the League of Women Shoppers. I don't think she was doing. I mean, she was, uh, Uh, believed in, In most of the things my father did, I think that uh That it was, uh, Usually at a dinner table, he said my

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father would be raised something playful. The League of Women Shoppers, who are they? Well, they were a, uh, they were kind of, um, a, uh, Um Progressive group that And, Took these different issues that, Consumer things. Um, I wanted to ask you something. There is a

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very important point there, uh, about the guild and John L. Lewis. And when I spoke to you earlier, you said that you'd That there had been negotiations, I believe, and that contracts negotiated for the guild by John Elois and you had some stories about that. You

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had a couple of there was my father would describe. How Lewis, uh, he, I think it was at Wilkes-Barre, that he came to some negotiations in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, you know, and uh Uh, that, uh, But that how Lewis Uh, ended one of the negotiations where The,

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uh, the employers were, uh, were stalling. And, uh, And then, uh, Uh, Louis, uh, came in with his, uh, And displayed his big eyebrows and and uh and his uh Low voice and he's saying that, uh, gentlemen, there's going to be a contract tonight. And uh

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he, he, he scared the heck out of me. He said that my father said that they, they said, uh, uh, oh, I think we'll do this point. Yes, I guess we can do this and that and they just suddenly changed their whole demeanor, you know, and,

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uh. And, um, And then after it was over, the uh the uh Put his hands around my father and his arms around my father and said, well, we really, really did it, didn't we, didn't we? That's nice. That's nice. Do you remember any, any other stories

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about Louis that your, your dad experienced that he told you about? Um And There were some other things I He did, uh, Um He did, he, he was doing some uh Uh, liaison between Lewis and, and the party, you know, and they, there was, he was

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sort of caught in the middle of some of that stuff and uh. Oh, that's interesting. Can you, can you elaborate on that? If you can Well, I think that I'm just Historically there's no more I can think of or say in connection with That that during

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that period they were there was sort of an alliance. It ended up that, you know, that in 1940 that Lewis endorsed Wilkie. And, uh, And um They were sort of in, in some ways going along the same lines, although maybe from different political standpoints. Hm. Yeah,

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sure. So there was another discussion with one time that my father went to see Lewis and he said, was saying that that his communist friends wanted to have something. And do you remember what it was they wanted? No, I don't. He tells the story, but I

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don't recall the, you know, and then. Louis said to him, he said to him, Tell your communist friends to either shit or get off the pot. OK, I wish I knew exactly what you don't remember the context. OK, OK. Did, did, did, did Lewis ever come

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to your house? Did you, did you, did you ever meet him yourself? No, I never, no, I didn't actually meet him. I used to see him in newsreels and, and he would, he would always have this, they would always show him with a, with a big

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scowl. When he was, uh, The Batman. Right. Yeah, yeah. Uh, I guess the mainstream news, newsreels, yeah. Um, OK. In I guess about 40. 2 or 3, your dad opted to move out here. What happened was that uh that um The Harry, Harry Bridges. Came out

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He was looking for an editor to have a paper. One of the things that happened out here was that in the West Coast was that the uh For many years they had this paper called The Voice of the Federation. That that all the The maritime unions

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out here used as their official organ. And they used to have Pages sections set aside for each union and so that it's the official art of the IW, but when the Sometime in the early part of the war, the The, uh, Maritime Maritime Federation Pacific, yeah.

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Uh, disbanded and so they, uh, they had to get a paper, uh, their own. They never, they didn't have a, And do, 4243 So he came to New York to, And decided that he wanted to have my father to be the editor, the founding editor. And

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so he met with him there. Persuaded You know, at that point, you're like, 1314 years old. I was I came out when I was 13. You were 13. And he came out in the fall of, I think the fall of 42 to start the paper up

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and then it was the January 1943. My mother and my Sister, Priscilla, uh, we, we took a train out to San Francisco. How, how did you experience that change in your life coming out to the coming out west from the east? Well, I remember that, uh,

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my first reaction was that, uh, I didn't want to go. I was really upset. I was used to New York. But, uh, The first day we arrived, we drived on January 2nd. And it was snowy in New York and, you know, cold and uh I remember

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it was January 2nd and it was in the sun was out and it was a nice, you know. Fairly warm day, And uh And then I looked at the, uh, then I looked at the San Francisco Chronicle and they had a sporting green and they had

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a full page of, of baseball box scores. Nobody played baseball in, in the winter in in. New York, so, so that just, uh, I figured, hey, um, this is, This is all right, so I, I, I quickly adjusted to uh. The change What, what other, what

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other recollections? Do you remember any other recollections of being in San Francisco? When you first got here? You don't have it on. You have it on. Oh, I'm sorry. The, the, uh, um. Well, it was wartime. There was uh There was a lot of um. military

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around the town and it was filled with Serviceman in a different Sometimes the, I remember the, uh, and the streetcars were, uh, would be jammed and you'd, you'd ride on the bumpers. Was, uh, Did you pay when you rode on the bumpers? Well, there was most

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of the time, no, they, they didn't get around to. To collecting the fares. I remember there was, uh, there's one woman that was very assiduous about going around trying to collect the fares. They not only were on the bumpers, but they'd be hanging off of, uh,

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Handles on the, you know, the outside. Yeah, it was, it was really amazing.