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Has promised speedy budget action 13. Uh, 1978. And this is the first interview, uh, that we are starting with E Yard McDaniel. And uh I am Bruce Kuiper from the Radical Elder Oral History Project, and Peter Carroll is sitting across from me who will continue the

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interview after today. Uh E Yard, when and where were you born? And Wellstown, Lumberton, Mississippi. Wells, uh W E L L S T O W N, Lumberton, Mississippi. Uh, now let's see, you, uh, were raised in Mississippi, and how long did you live there? I, I

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could say that because I came to California at 7 years old. What were your parents' backgrounds? I mean, what, what sort of work did they do? Um, my father was a moderator of Baptist churches. He was also an engineer in the sawmills, soya, right, right, and

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uh your mother, what did she do? A housewife. She was a housewife. How many kids did you have in the family? 55 children, younger, older, or there was, uh, 3 older than me and 1 younger than me. Uh, what were your parents' uh, class backgrounds? Well,

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my father, uh, was one of the first graduates of the Book of Washington Institute, Tuskegee Institute. He graduated, uh, with one of high honors there, and, uh, did he know, uh, some of the famous people in Tuskegee like, uh, uh, yeah, he knew them, uh, so

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he was there then how many years? Well, he finished there. He graduated from there and he was a moderating all Southern Baptist churches at the time. Now what denomination that was Southern Baptist and Southern Baptist churches moderator. Oh, it was hundreds of the biggest one there.

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Now they were primarily throughout the. Uh, now your parent, you, you say your father was, uh, working in that uh area with the churches. Uh, where were you raised now? You were there for 7 years and, uh, in the same town. Uh, yes, you were in

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the same town, and then, uh, when you moved out to California, what were the reasons for your moving? Well, I left there and I went to Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, stayed there for a little while. I went to Chicago with a relative, and then he came to

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California. Now what were the reasons for moving out here? Dissat. You satisfied with the conditions of black people. This was the condition of black people in the South. That's why I left that. I didn't like the way you treat black people. That's why I left. Now

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did you and the whole family come out? Just me, just you. So you came out at the age of my thy is in Sacramento, I mean in San Francisco, Los Angeles, and how did you travel? Ho hot at the age of 7 to, yeah. Uh, did

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you go with anybody else, just follow a bunch of others and stayed on the train. Uh, did your parents give their consent, no consent. So you ran away from home. Well, I would, I would go far. I just left. It was a midnight when I left.

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Yes, my father whooped me for what? because he was talking about Luke said in church. Luke said this and Luke said that and I told him I hadn't said nothing. So he gave me 16 lashes and I left. And 30 years later I went back and

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I got the other 16 lashes. Was your uh father uh pretty strict? I mean, uh, was that an example he was very strict. On the family and he I was some of the relations. And the with the junk with the razor strap and and they hit

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the 16 they went and disappeared and 30 years later he see me give another 16. I was a grown man and I didn't get by with. Uh, you said your father studied with the Booker T. Washington's thing. Did he talk about any, uh, splits between Washington

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and WEB Du Bois at that time, uh, he didn't discuss that too much. Because he was on the side of Booker T. Washington. Uh, Dubois was not too popular at that time among those negroes down there. Because they figure uh Booker Du Washer was correct in

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which I think he's direct, you know, I love Duo as a friend leader, but I think that book to Washington was correct in what he did. For that time period, or you mean are you speaking at that time, uh, the, the supper and book you watch

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uh uh will be Du Bois. Which I become well acquainted with later, uh, at the time he typed books he was as unjustifiable. Washington did the best he could do under the circumstances that he had to work on, you see, and, uh, the boys being out

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of Boston up there and had a situation to endure that Buty Washington has who go around begging to educate Pope or educate negroes uh knew more about Negro question. We we door, so but the boss learned 25 years later. That the situation he was the role

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he was pursuing was incorrect at that time. Uh, however, Du Bois's outlet is the father of uh. Woods we said, uh, letters, uh, he proved, uh, he never proved Buckle Washington wrong. He clarified himself is all I can say about it clear himself because he never

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his condemnation of By J. Washington was was absolutely wrong, and my father figured the same way about it. Well, you were only 7 now when you left Mississippi. So was this a subject that you discussed prior to that time? Well, even though I left Mississippi at

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7, I still had connection. With my family. I had connection. He just, uh, uh, I've always had basic connection with him. And even I severe with them yet because of still property buying, I mean property buying with the family. Well, now, uh, after you left, uh,

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do you know what happened to your family in the sense of, did they cor did you keep corresponding right, uh-huh, and what, what happened to them after you left? Uh, were they, did your father remain in the Baptist churches, uh, uh, that occupation or my father.

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He go, he is a he go remain in the Baptist Church, but they had a foreign missionary which you make trips to Africa and different places. Yeah, my father spoke several languages, so he was an extremely learned language he spoke Arabian basic. Hm. Just out in

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the home, yeah. Well, do you, do you feel in retrospect, when you think back about your father, do you feel that his influence, uh, on your early life, uh, although he was disciplined and strict, do you feel that he had a literary or intellectual influence on

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you in your later life? Oh, he definitely had. Uh, to a certain extent, uh, he, um, my father. Since basically taught us from a child, was never forgotten. However, I become more radical. Because I consider him lady as taking as a coward in my way of

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looking at it. Not that he was a coward. Because he understood more about what he had to put up with than I did. But in my, oh, I was a little bit too radical to Uh follow him through. See, certain things we, uh, I thought, uh,

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principals he taught that I still remember like what, what are some of the things that you remember? But, um, One of the things I remember more basic here was taught us that one bird in the hand is better than not in the bush. That's a basic

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principle because in his interpretation was that you get a hold of something, you got that. And it's not that's trying to get something you don't know about and that's what his interpretation was to us a bird in the hands but not in the bushes. Any other

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lessons that he taught you. Uh, he taught us to be, uh, treat another person the way we want to be treated ourselves. And and he was definitely dead set against the other. He didn't believe in us, uh, stealing. I'm being dishonored with the other. So in

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other words, the 10 Commandments were to him, and he taught that to his family. Well, after you, uh, hoboed out, uh, are there any experiences on your trip out to California that you, you would relate to us? Well, um, When I hold out to California, I

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found a different. Situation I found now that. You had uh, you couldn't go by what he taught. You go by what you confronted with and of course the depression days was come up during those times and um. It made a different situation. So you, you were

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hoboing out in the late 20s early 30s just before the big crash or was it um when um. This fellow, uh, uh, Governor of New York Al Smith was running for. President, he was defeated by who. You see When I was traveling around. Oh, Uh, was

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a lot of people to elect him as president because his pre Catholics was greater than what I realized, right, right, uh, uh, when you arrived in California, at what point or where in California did you arrive? Los Angeles and you arrived by rail rail was that?

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Uh, that was in uh. Late twenties OK. Other one, I'm confused about the, about some dates you, you said you were born in 1912 and you left when you were 19 uh uh and um. before 1920, I was, well, actually in 1920 I was here in

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this state. OK, so so it must have been in the trip out here was in the early 2020. OK, so when you arrived in Los Angeles, describe what you did when you arrived in Los Angeles. Oh, step in the terminal. 87 railroad by cars there. Yeah

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that's where they stole the past the cars except in there and ate out the wholesale terminal which was free. Um, Walk around there and um. So newspapers. Boot back a little bit with one of these little walking boxes and running out of Hollywood. How long did

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you do that? About 6 months came to San Francisco, then went back. Well, when you came to San Francisco, uh, what were you looking for? What sort of work? No. You were just, uh, exploring uh California. That like I tell you what I did come to

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San Francisco, walked around and Be quit with anybody had to their food now they give anybody the food out. And then I was picked up by Cotwell, can you go. The uh. Consuela Canega. Canega. Castle well, see what the uh uh K K N A J,

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a photographer, a photographer which uh picked up on the beach for her and a uh art critic by the name of Julius Craven and they take me and she take me in because they live in the same place and I live with them. Yeah, from now

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up to going to school. Mm, and what, what did you do with them? Oh, do you have to make coffee in the morning? Sweep off the see the front points. I pick up a little juck around the house and. That's about all. They didn't make work

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hard, but, uh, yeah, and then she taught me how photographer away, uh, and research and development that's my name. So, uh, how, how long did you stay with him? You were, uh, um. All through uh junior high school and high school. Now you went to school

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at the same time. Uh-huh, yeah, they, they sought oh yeah, sister. I went to school and make the best grades. I had, uh, good grades. Irancisco. I had uh all high school I be A plus A, A and A plus. Oh, mission finish up a Humboldt

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evening. I was every junior. Mission Humboldt evening high school and then I went to Sacramento San Francisco State College and art college. Yeah. So your major in college was art. Um, Which that major I had art prizes one. Painting pads and watercolors and painting and photography

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and were you doing any writing then? Oh yeah, uh, 34. I mean, uh, This purpose that that them, but I, I did right before that was just some purpose right there and then uh her sister Neva Carnegie Brown, which is a commercial artist. And he haven't

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done puppets, you know. Oh, OK, it was pups. I worked with him on purpose. And then we did Walt Disney the others. So, uh, now they must have had a pretty dramatic influence on you, uh, uh, in the sense that, uh, do you feel that those

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two people who took that, that it was a German family right. A German Scotch family, uh, uh. The mother Jones the Scotch. They had a, a good influence on me because they insisted I insist I was the only black out in the mission in the schools.

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The time I was in there because Doctor Fisher Spencer had been there before. I love brothers. I was only black at the time and there were two more blacks then. They insisted I'd be the best student in the school. Calling the school I work. Did you

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know the Ray Ray Thompson's family then? No, not at that time. I know he was a pastor in the mission at that time. No, uh, no, at that time I didn't know. I got him to know him later. Uh, the only two Negro families in Negro

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families in the mission. That was uh. The Fisher family. Which the the daughter was director of Bwash, yeah, but that Bwash community center and the two sons was teamsters all two Negro teamsters and they was in that one family, and Negro family up the street that,

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uh, a Negro up the street that, uh, a Negro man, a white woman. He had a dog about my age which is out. Uh, speak to me because I was considered self. A well educated, a well educated servan. Now a servant, see, even though we were

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in the same school in mission together was in Humboldt. She had the face of a humble evening high school. Well, should I speak to me. Uh, in the front of the family because we're pretty good friends. But now, uh, let's see now you were with them,

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uh, through high school and all all the way through college. Well, um, what amount of years was that? What's the total uh well, um. Well, once that, uh, through high school, all these two cars, yeah, I got to make allowances because you see during that high

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school time when our the longshore you have been organized. And which I was active in there. Oh, you know, out of union in 1933 right now when, when did you first get connected with them? When you first start out. So it was in the uh about

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3232 we had a conference and 33 we had a convention and organize our uh the union under the IRA. Now if let's say now, see we're not trying to get straight. This woman, this photography was also involved in that. That's what got me involved in that

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because I didn't know anything about it until she brought me in there. Compton connected. She's done the photographs. That's what got me involved in both of these people left leaning? Were they socialists? Oh. She was uh running around with the head of a commerce organizer there

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by that time called um. He was a he was a commas and I have my watch. She wasn't, but he was uh. I'm trying to think about it because he and Bill Sna around later. But he was the organizer, uh, comes organizer, acting wife at the

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time, was she, he's really. And that and that feels that of course I'm in that family, so. Because I'm gonna walk for a long time anyway. That's no friend. Anyway, and I got development to say that because. Uh, she was um. Well, I, I was studying

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this anyway, uh. Pass through. I take the journalism and stuff like that in high school. And she's teach me photography. A dog will develop and stuff like that printing. Now have you been reading political literature at that point? Oh yeah, yeah, during that time and um.

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This family this other man who had this big. Mention on there I was publishing um. Uh, we had another nice. I don't mean in, in fact. I read that too, but you had the guy married to Ella Winters. Lincoln Stephens. Well, I was in his house.

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I used to go and spend time at his house too because these people got friends and Stephens. You always thinks of us spent time in I spent a lot of time in our house, you know what she. Oh, he was a, a nice old man. We

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fired by hoods. He's father we went over at Linol Stephens. He is married to Ella Winters. He calm calm me out. But I spent a lot of time in the house because Cos Winne was a friend of theirs and that's how I got to know the

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people. She was a society photographer. Who's lost a lot of money customers because she's got. Associated with radicals. Before that she did the Libras is in the. And uh Uh, she did the Levis. I did all that photographs, the Levis and um. Zilla bags and all

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them. Um These el bags. A bunch of big names that uh Ralph Charles and that's how I knew all of them because I was a Dark won't wake him. I was, uh, I did a, she taught me to do the dark way developing printing and, uh,

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retouch and stuff like that. Well, now, uh, your activity then in the IOW, you, you were, uh, doing publicity work with her. Were you doing photographs and, uh, no, we did one. All of program were for strike. Was dead by the woman I was with and

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awaken for and I. I mean, I. They involved them because she was the one that's done them and I was helping her. Did you take photographs yourself? Oh, I did. No, but a spare me was shot down. She photographed and I developed the spare me and

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shut down on water that she was photographed that and I was in print. Oh, actually she was a photographer. I was an aide. How, how did you meet her? I was on the beach down there, uh, no, they run me down on the beach on Junior's

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craven. I was running up down the beach down there swimming and band equipment everybody had in the pool. I had everything at picnic. I joined by. I don't care what color it was color make me a don't come picnics as long as they had food, I'd

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get in there go easy and uh I could run very fast. And it was quite a good ethics, so they, everybody was talking about that. Mysterious black bomber negro on the beach down there and so she was. Out there for a couple of months I was

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just trying to catch me. So if I call me. Sleeping and then they take me home with him. Uh, you, you told them that you had no place to live and that you were just hanging. Oh, I, I told my I told me I had a

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hotel to pay now. No Don't quarter don't have weeks of that. Uh, I was a pit in the hotel and there was a bunch of they give me a room in there for $1 or a quarter weeks on and I had to empty cars and stuff

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like that, you know, sweeped all out, see, so she put him at the hotel, came up with the house. Fontelgravill. So, uh, uh, describe your, uh, your, it sounds like your activities in the 1934 uh strike were the first. Confrontation you had with, uh it went

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way back because um. In 209. Uh, 29, I went back south, yeah. Uh. Where's that? He, he went back agitating. Where did you go to? Oh, Alabama and uh. Mobile and New Orleans blues out that's where the street that street car back. Now, uh, what brought

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you back there? Why, why did you go back there? Well, at that time, I felt that I knew about the strike. In New Orleans and I really down there, people that I knew I was communicating with. And they, I knew they had two strike headquarters, a

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black and a white headquarters. And I didn't think that was right, so I went down there. Now you were not, uh, connected with any political group at the time. No, I would definitely connect with a political group when I went down there. I just, uh, you

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know, I, I had the inclination, so I just went on right down there to New Orleans and got involved in that side, but I went down there and went to white headquarters. But describe it in full. Describe what was the strike over? It was a streetcar

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strike, street car strike, and what were the issues? Uh, the issue was it was for something like 10 cents increase in pay. Uh, better working conditions and break time and stuff like that. That was the basic issue involving in the racing 2829, right? No, New Orleans.

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Then, um, the um. You know what the beating the strike was the difference between the two headquarters. They had a white headquarters and a black headquarters. Oh, that time it was called um. Let me see that. There was New Orleans. This it was under the um

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American Parish of Labor transportation workers, yeah, the transportation workers. That's what the oh that I don't know. Because he was shot there, I think he kicked them out there, yeah, remember they kicked him out because. They got uh too radical problem. So, uh, uh, so what

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you did that, uh, created so much notoriety was that instead of going to the black division you went to the white office. Yeah, that's what I, I, I got in New Orleans I found with a. The policymaking group was in the white division. That's where I

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went to Jim Jim Crow union, and I asked him what you conducting here. She straight I said, well I, I said I see a black cat, uh. Uh, Negroes across the street. And you cross over here, you both strike the same concern. Well here, I said

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that make no sense. What, what were the wage differences between black and white workers? About 25% different. 5 people got 25 or 30% more than negroes got. So, um, Oh, I told him he should, uh, have, um, I couldn't knock out the equities in equities, but

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I, uh, asked that they fight for mortgages for Negroes for what they asked for Negroes wasn't to drop the bucket, and they wouldn't ask for enough for whites, but they should have cut out on the inequities of it. So, or for some reason it is to

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me. And that was my headquarters. So, uh, uh, how, how did you, uh, tell me how you led or how you participated in the headquarters there? Well, I went and told him I thought he was conducting a strike wrong. That it was not uh if they

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are trying to lose a strike, why put out picking. You got you gonna need a black headquarters in a white head that that was advocated that time. Well, that must have taken a bit of courage to walk into a well, I didn't care about courage, you

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know, they know it. I went in there and they accepted me, so, uh. Uh, we begin to dictate the policy. That's what I don't know what, why did you in, but you see it's barely beat you there for three months and it's barely beaten, and we

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want to strike. Because true enough, the Polish run out all these, but they, they was right. Now they ran you out, uh, for what reason? Oh, as an undesirable alien. A provocateur agitator under our Aden.