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There we go. I think this is it. And let me just speak for that. Today is Friday, June 11th, 1993. I'm in Glen Ellen with Harriet Kahn. And I wanted to start by asking you by talking about your family, and perhaps we could start with some

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background you can tell me about um how and when you and your husband met and then um move to your long story. Well, great, and then um move to the birth of your children and, um, to your activities during the period that that I'm interested in

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talking about. Um, Well, as I say, it's a long story, but I shall make it as short as possible. Both Albert and I were were raised in very comfortable families. We had, we knew nothing about the world. We knew nothing literally we, we about the world

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outside of our very comfortable homes. Where was that? That was in uh. Albert was until he was 14, he was in in uh in uh He was born in England. His father moved there because of business reasons, uh. Uh, And lived there. For till Albert was

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14, I don't know exactly when they moved there, but I, but probably a good, they lived there 1520 years, I don't know. But Albert came to the United States. He was of American parents. Uh, and his father was a member of a very eminent architectural firm,

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Albert Co Incorporated. And they moved to Detroit, where the firm was located. And I was living in Detroit. I was born in Muskegon, Michigan and uh shortly after I was born, my family moved to Detroit. My father was He was in that wave of the developing

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auto automotive industry. And uh so Albert and I. met he was going to Exeter and I was going to a junior college and we met on a train which always sounds rather indissy. But I was properly introduced by my next door neighbor. Anyway, uh, we met

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and. It was curious because my one of my dearest friends in school, I went to a private school. And uh one of my dearest friends was the daughter of Albert Kahn, Rosalie Kahn. And uh. We were very close and she kept, she would tell me about

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this cousin of hers coming from England and how he was delightful. He wore plus little knickers she called plus 4 plus 4. He wore knickers and spoke so it's such an English accent that he that in those days he I guess he was going back and

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forth, but anyway. Uh, we met and, uh, uh, I immediately knew that he was Rosalie's cousin. It was unquestionable, and you were both in your teens then, so you were 11 and 16, I think I was 16 or something, it doesn't matter. And um Rosalie, before

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I had left this private school to go east to school to a junior college, was really in those, it was the last two years and then uh Junior college. Uh, she had said to me, you know, she was mourning my going. We were very, very close,

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and she said, When you come back, things will never be the same, and I said, why is that? And she said, because I'm Jewish and you will be making your debut, you will be doing all those things, you will, you will. You know, we won't be

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able to be friends anymore, friends, but not in the way we are now, and I was furious and said she was lying, not knowing the truth, because in that level of society, anti-Semitism was not talked about. You didn't hear anti-Semitic jokes, etc. but anyway, I'm gonna

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go on too long if I get diverge into that. So when I met. I immediately, you know, he was charming, he was, he was the brightest person I'd ever met, and, um, at that point in my life I was liking my mailbox to be filled with

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letters from boys and he wrote the most wonderful letters. And they were abs they were all letters in poetry and and it was just he was fantastic, but I wouldn't have considered going out with him. By that time, The peer pressure in the school was such,

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there were Jewish girls there. I later found out, of course, there was a Jewish quota. And uh it was an intellectual school. It was very, very it wasn't a finishing school. It was really an academic school and it was accredited to Vassar and Smith and whatnot,

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one of the first junior colleges in existence, but anyway, it's interesting that I, who was so vehement about uh that I could never participate in this. Uh became anti-Semitic in a matter of probably 2 school years. And uh so it took quite a while. Uh, We,

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uh, see that we were saying when I was 17 when I met him. We were married when I was 21, and in that time a lot of things happened in my life, uh. I discovered in spite of the, the very protective and precious atmosphere. When I

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fell in love with him, I wasn't in love with him at all in the beginning, and he, I just loved his mind and the intellect of the guy and He uh he, he was something, but anyway, um. The When I fell in love with him and

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I fell in love and I just knew that this was the guy for me. And immediately the family reaction. was tremendous. Uh, it was a nightmare. And my mother died when at 48, it was just the time of when, when she, you know, she, she was

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my mother was raised that strata was raised with anti-Semitism, but it was very hidden and she, she loved me so much that when she was dying she said to me, you must do what you want to do what is good for you. And my father was

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some another question. My sister was vehemently anti-Semitic. And that whole strata, so that I left school, came home to be with my mother until her death. And then for there were 2 years there of just a barrage from all. All relatives in the family was large

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and there were great aunts who would come to visit me to tell and people from my brother-in-law's bank saying that, oh, incredible experiences, some of which I've, I've written, but Anyway, during that period. I can pass as a guess. I mean, I can almost say that

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prejudice was burned out on me. Through this relationship. So we married. Much to the family's distress. And we moved to Chicago. Um, where the world began to make itself known to us. We were both very spoiled, very, very spoiled, and it was, it was rough because

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we weren't used to compromising. And making that kind of adjustment, uh. But we We were still together and then Albert, uh, he'd been writing. And uh he had a job, which he hated and after being there in Chicago a year and a half, we decided we

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would go to the West Coast where he would write the great play exposing the cosmetic industry. He had been working in a cosmetic company as purchasing agent and he and he saw what was happening on the on the uh production lines he saw the exploitation of

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the of the workers there so the world began, you know, to to make itself or we became bad to be aware of some of the inequities. And we moved to the West Coast, uh, where we lived. In Laguna Beach in a little wonderful little place up

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in the hill and ate tomato sandwiches and I mean peanut butter sandwiches and tomato soup that was our diet. I didn't know how to cook or anything but whatever so it was the Spanish War Civil War was going on. Albert had had read a great deal

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and he subscribed to the New York Times out there or some particular. Very informative paper. It could have been in an LA paper, but I have a feeling it was the Times, and he had read Stray and Others and it was all sort of, it was

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very, very interesting, but it was intellectual and one night there was a There was a gathering on the subject, a meeting, and we went because you go, there's, I mean, it was just uh a meeting and it was something to do in the evening. And uh

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so he the speaker was a very pro-Franco person and Albert got up and answered him and the next day he answered him very well and the next day the couple came to us and said, would he consider. Going on a on a speaking on Spain, they

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would arrange meetings here and there, and he we became radicalized by the Spanish Civil War, uh, especially when we took what was called the ambulance tour. Hemingway came, had come to Madrid uh, to, uh, Los Angeles from Madrid. And uh he spoke to the the stars

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and the directors and whatnot. They raised money for for ambulances and Uh, the idea was we would take Horace Es film Heart of Spain and uh we would tour with it here and there up and down the the the country raising money. Well, that was, it

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was a financial fiasco. We didn't take the ambulances because as Albert said it would be ridiculous they need them over there, so why waste time. So we had two secondhand laundry trucks painted to look. I'll show you. I'll show you pictures, that's very clever piece of

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with all the names of all the people who. Oh, I've seen those pictures of, you know, the ambulances and from, you know, the, the, the veterans and raised money for ambulances in Nicaragua, same with the name that's right, that's right. So, uh, but we did, we

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were, we that was our awakening. Absolute awakening and one of the young man who was in charge of planning the uh uh tour was an absolute bust uh he he had us he had no sense of of what it would mean to arrive in town set

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up. And have a meeting in the afternoon and the evening and the next morning he would have us driving all night after that to make a date the next morning. Anyway, that was a fiasco and I remember that he was a communist and I wasn't too

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impressed with the I didn't bother me that he was a communist. It was just he was so inefficient and I communists were. Yeah. There was also one young, very earnest young man. We, what we did was we had the ambulance and then we had a trailer

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behind and there were 4 men and myself and we all slept in this trailer and this young man didn't change his socks. Created quite a problem. It was terribly planned and finally halfway we got to Denver. I became terribly ill. Everybody become ill before that. I

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was the last one to go down, but, uh, uh, and the trip had to be canceled, but that is where we learned something about. What was in the world and especially in Hanna, Wyoming, a mining town. And the generosity of the people. The concern of the

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of the people on Skid Row in Seattle, two shows we had to give, and we weren't gonna ask any money and the man said you they would the guys would be insulted, you can't do that and they put pennies and dimes in the can. So I

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mean we learned and uh it's an ability that those people had an immediate ability to connect to that kind of right, right, and an international, it wasn't just confined to this country. So then, uh, as we, as I say, we became radicalized, that doesn't, didn't mean

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that we joined the Communist Party. It was just that the scales were removed from our eyes and we saw reality in a way we've never seen it before. And um So, Uh Where did you, did you return to Southern California then? No, well, we did, but

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then I mean the whole thing, the period was over and And Albert, he, he was offered a job in advertising in his uncle's firm and in Chicago in Detroit, in Detroit, and his father was a dear lovely man, was a member of that firm, and he

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very much would was he was very pleased that Albert's coming back to the fold and would be part of the organization, but one day, uh, someone brought to Albert Kahn. Who will, I think I can refer to as AK, which was the just his initials because

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it's, he may be confusing. A leaflet that said that Albert Kahn was speaking on Spain. And a public forum on such and such a time. Oh yeah. So. Uh, where were we? The flyer, the flyer, yeah, well, AK looked at him and said, then he realized

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it was his nephew, and he called Albert in and he said, You, this cannot go on. I said, Well, you can't continue this activity, and that was it, finished, finished. Well, you either you you employed here and you give all that up and you give that

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up or you're finished, so that was the decision was swiftly made. Albert wasn't going to, you know, he just said thank you very much and, and uh I think he'd worked there about 3 or 4 months, maybe longer, but not too much longer. And then uh

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he got a call that they needed he was needed in New York say they he was needed in New York. I forget it was who called him, yes, I believe it was, well, it was the daughter of Ambassador Dodd, ambassador to Germany, and. She, among others

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were forming a committee um against Nazi propaganda. It was called the American Council Against Nazi propaganda and they needed somebody to direct it and Albert said I'll do it. And never having had any experience, but he was a wonderful organizer anyway, so and uh when we

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moved to New York and he had a most uh well a prestigious. Group council on the council and Really, uh, I can show you later, in fact, I can give you, uh, I hope I can put my hand on it, yeah, I can, um. And that

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committee council uh did tremendous work of exposing fascist activities in the United States and its purpose there wasn't much one could do about Europe, but in the United States, the uh, the German American bund. Um, Father Coughlin Liberty League, Liberty League, the whole bit and out

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of that, uh, developed a weekly news bulletin which went to all the uh radio stations we didn't have television then but radio stations and newspapers. And it was called the Hour and it was highly, highly thought of. And it there was he was at that time

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he was doing really basic investigative reporting and we call it that now and then it didn't have a name but uh before I have stone, yes, yes, so um. And that that was very, very valuable work. In fact, when it came to the actual our entry

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into the war, his work with the hour was considered sufficiently important and his work with the council that he did not serve his work was considered sufficiently critical. So and during that period, were you, um, how, how would you identify yourselves politically? Were you making decisions

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about your affiliations or was that not? Yes, uh, Albert was briefly, I say briefly, he was, he joined the party and there was a great, he had a great interest in it and a great conviction that it was going to, you know, going to be the

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answer. I was more reticent and uh I did join briefly I say briefly it was wasn't that I fell out with the with the party. It was that that uh I can't, there were aspects of it that were that were troublesome to me and then Albert,

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you can say he always said he was a Marxist and he read extensively in Marx. He knew Marx, he. As well as Shakespeare, he was a brilliant Shakespearean scholar, um, but, uh, there were there it was just there were certain difficulties and, and I must say,

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uh, while I was convinced it that socialism and I am convinced today I'm one of the unregenerate people uh. That uh there were it was just well they were awkward things in it that there was peer pressure I felt uh and so the the actual you

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can say I kept my convictions but I was not a member per se uh you could say. Albert, in, in theory, in theory he was about talk about whatever they had a card or whatever that, that was early on and then it just went away just.

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But and it was important too because it it uh oh he spoke at every, every party function I mean you can say that in in essence he was and he wasn't trying to hide anything it was just he didn't do well distributing the Daily worker in

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front of the Ossining theater. If you understand he would fall down on obligations like this he would write, write, and he would, he was constantly writing uh uh articles for the worker for whatever so it's one of these moot things, you know, I mean. He in

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his obit we made the point that he was a confirmed Marxist and that says it because it doesn't those that was his belief and and it didn't require membership. No, so uh this is when and this is the early 40s or late 30s still well. The

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hour was 19, um I think that would be 1940 probably and uh and then and then Michael Sayers and Albert wrote the Great Conspiracy against the Soviet Union they call it. Russia, which was a bestseller, wild and endorsed by this and that and whatnot and then

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they wrote another, uh, they wrote High tree oh no they wrote the plot Against the Peace and another I can't remember right now, so they're all down there and looking at them, but. Anyway, uh, then he wrote High Treason, that was the first book he'd written

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alone, and, uh, that's the most fascinating book that is a very revelatory book. I wish I had a copy. Have you ever read that? Well, I wish I had a copy. I'll see it. Uh, so let's see where we are now. Uh, when was your first

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son born? Steve was born, Steve, that you will be talking to was born in 1941, and, uh, we were both very, very active socially, I mean picket lines and demonstrations. And whatnot um and that was our that was our life and uh did you have ever

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have any questions about whether whether you wanted to have a child in the midst of all this or was that you? No, no, no, that, that we were, you know, young people are very optimistic, I must say. And I didn't, uh, no, that, that I did

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resent the fact that Albert with his on this investigative reporting, I mean he just uncovered a lot tremendous things including and he they were unsavory characters and he would bring them home. And that was a little difficult. There was a Ford labor spy, and I think

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uh uh that that story really exposed a lot of the uh of the goings on at the Ford, the secure they had a security department there. I can't remember the name of the man who was head of it. He was a right hand to Ford and

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he was a a just a dreadful man who ran houses of prostitution. Anyway, this a whole expose this labor spy, but Helbert brought him home. I can remember saying, look, I've got a baby here. I don't want, you know, but anyway, so life was, it was

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all very, very interesting and moving fast and vital, and there was no time really for a lot of introspection. And it was all of a piece, your social life, your political life, and your friends were having children then and they were just as active as we

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and some of them were party members and some of them weren't and and so when Steven was born in what ways did that change your involvement or Albert's involvement or level of activity? Well, with Steven, it didn't very much, yes, right, right, and Tim came along

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3 years later. Uh, by that time I couldn't stand New York and we were very fortunate. We we moved to Westchester to a wonderful old house there. There was rent control on this wonderful century old house with many bedrooms and it was in an apple orchard.

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We paid $50 a month. It was just a joy. Albert always found us wonderful places to live. And then with three children, uh, I was pregnant with Brian and we just we were Stephen and Tim needed we were isolated, we were in an apple orchard and

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uh we needed kids and what so we moved. Albert found us a wonderful house. In Croton on Hudson, which was considered to be a hotbed of communism, a lovely old Jewish guy, Alex Bittleman lived there. He was a small man, party functionary, and he, in spite

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of his frail size, he could talk every able bodied person into the ground. He would when he gave a speech, he just sort of sank back. Waiting he would go on for an hour, an hour and a half and not know that people were swooning, but

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anyway, uh, we had a wonderful, wonderful friends there. It was also known as the place we lived as Jew Hill, uh, by the locals, and we did not know that, uh. The postman, of course, I mean we should have known that our mail was scrutinized and

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the phone was tapped and etc. the usual, the usual. What did your kids understand as they were even when do you think they, they became aware it may not have been one particular day, I mean this was their life, but yeah, how did they come to

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understand what their, what their parents did. Well, that wasn't, I mean, in the first place. Albert's work, uh, had to be explained to them and they had to know about the Nazis and they had to know about racism and they had to know about discrimination and

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all in as many as forms as you know now you don't. Uh, uh, it was necessary. They learned things before perhaps they should have if, if our work had been different or our outlook had been different, but they, they, they learned early, um. About the tragedies

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of Emmett Till and the Rosenbergs, my God, Steven will tell you about this night, you know, uh, so it was, it was an enforced education, uh, one would have preferred perhaps a little later, but with the Mauso case, for instance. Um, they were adamant about Harvey

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coming into the house and of course Albert, here we go again, bringing him home and I was furious when he suggested this and the boys, you, you can tell from the book if you've read it that they, they said Brian said, I'll leave home. If he

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comes in here, you know, because they knew they just didn't know they knew something of his record because one of their friends father Clint Jenks had been had been given because of Harvey a 5 year or 12 year jail sentence and so they knew these things,

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you know, uh, but they will, you see, they were, they were going to the public school there. And Steve will tell you of experiences, etc. Um, but the school, I must say, as I remember it was not, um, the kids themselves, some kids themselves would surely

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he would have stories about individual kids, but the atmosphere of the school was, was good, so none of they didn't have the kinds of experiences that Albert describes in the Game of Death. No, but you see, they had to know about, they knew about those and,

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and, uh, did you, do you have memories of overhearing them playing, even I'm thinking, you know, the way children play games, I mean were there games different? Did they, did they. But clearly they knew things as you say sort of before earlier than other other kids.

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I'm not I'm my friends would would be almost the same way, but Albert was under such a spotlight, you see that it it hastened things and all my, as far as for instance uh the question of discrimination with against the blacks and Indians and Native Americans,

00:32:47.959 - 00:33:11.520

this was part and parcel of their thinking. And it was part and parcel of their friends thinking and so, but Steve will have perhaps completely different picture than I this is as I saw him and it was interesting. Brian called me the other night and uh.

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His little son Dylan is going to be 5 in July at the end of July, and he's a wonderfully bright and one articulate child and uh he had heard somewhere I don't remember quite where about the Nazis and uh. He said as they were driving somewhere,

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he said, Daddy, what is a Nazi? And Brian said, well, a Nazi was a person who wanted to take over the world, etc. He gave him his explanation and power and whatnot. And they were very brutal and very cruel and and uh uh so there was

00:34:04.819 - 00:34:31.899

a war against the Nazis and he said Alby Dylan calls Albert Alby and Alby fought very hard against the Nazis and Dylan's got him and he said, well, did he win? Single-handed you just see grandpa out there. And Brian said, well, he many, many people were

00:34:31.899 - 00:34:56.739

fighting against the Nazis in all any way that they could all ways possible, and Dylan said, Well, are there, are there still Nazis and Brian said to me that was a tough question because you don't hearylan at 5. Steven at 5 already knew and of course.

00:34:56.824 - 00:35:21.455

Well, that's digressing, but anyway, um, Steven knew about them he was raised in the war and the Nazis, you know, and he knew that he was part Jewish, uh, and as far as as that end when they had the, the option of going to the Catholic

00:35:21.455 - 00:35:41.679

Church, the temple, whatever they wanted, and that they did. I don't know if Brian went, did that, but Steve and Pat, I think, visited various churches and whatnot. We left it, you know, open for them. So anyway, um, here's Brian in the car with Dylan and

00:35:41.679 - 00:35:59.550

he said, well he, he didn't he really hesitated to answer because that's a very frightening thing after the description and the fact that there are some and so I think actually what he did then was to sort of deflect the question. And he said, you know,

00:35:59.709 - 00:36:19.590

Mom, I was thinking, and were you afraid? We first he said was dad afraid when he, when he was under such scrutiny and such pressure, terrific pressure, uh, he was held before the grand jury for a year and a half, not allowed to leave. Uh, and

00:36:19.590 - 00:36:40.780

then all the Eastland hearings is security subcommittee and the whole thing, you know, and I said no, I, I, he never expressed it. My feeling is that he very possibly was afraid because the reason I base that on he always had nightmares. But his nightmares during

00:36:40.780 - 00:37:04.270

those periods became so extreme and so frequent, uh, they were very violent nightmares and I said I really think that was a release, uh uh a a in his subconscious to, but I'm not sure I can't quote that. But a fear, I do not think fear,

00:37:04.840 - 00:37:32.629

uh, he said, what about yourself? and uh. I thought about it a minute and then I said well I don't associate at any time fear per se and there are two reasons for that, uh, anxiety, yes, when Albert got his prison sentence, uh, uh, on that

00:37:32.629 - 00:37:50.250

sleepless night, I remember thinking, well, how do we make it? Uh, we never had money, you know, I mean. I mean it was a writer, yeah, you know, no, and, and the publishing firm Cameron and Conn, I, I think they, they got paid sometimes $50 a

00:37:50.250 - 00:38:14.010

week. And when was the prison sentence handed down? That was during the uh you mean the date that would be 50 we're already in in Mausos made his confession and Cameron Khan are publishing the book. And the government is trying to stop it, and they called

00:38:14.010 - 00:38:33.260

Albert and Angus and Harvey in before the grand jury and demanded their subpoena reads so I can show you a copy of that. I'll take the study afterwards and fascinating thing that they had to surrender and you'll see absolutely everything carbon copies and the the the

00:38:33.270 - 00:38:53.679

the whatever whatever and secretary's notes and. So, both Angus and Albert said absolutely not, because they knew that would be the end of the book. Albert went before the, he was called for the first before Angus and uh he said no, we won't surrender. Because if

00:38:53.679 - 00:39:10.719

we did, we'd have nothing left and the DA said, oh well, that's impossible, and Albert showed him the subpoena and oh well he said we, we, we would ask only for copies and Albert said, well, I'll have to think about it, which he didn't, but he

00:39:10.719 - 00:39:28.469

went home. They, they, he came back the next day and uh. They said, where did you bring, did you bring the material? He said, no, I'm not gonna, we're not going to surrender it to you. So he was hauled before the judge and and uh uh

00:39:28.469 - 00:39:51.385

he said uh uh I think it was 6 months in jail. Beginning right now, so, so Stan Faulkner, his attorney, uh, said, well, it would be nice Mr. Conker to go home and tell his family and things, but, uh, so he was given overnight and he

00:39:51.385 - 00:40:12.989

had to appear with his toothbrush and little package of toiletries and whatnot, change your shirt or whatever, uh, the next morning. And that night I can remember thinking, well, you know, um, it's gonna be tough, but we, we can make it because Albert's mother, who was

00:40:12.989 - 00:40:35.889

most sympathetic. Uh, and supportive, wonderful, in spite of the fact that she was gone, but her, her experience, that's another story, but her experience in the Soviet Union, uh, when she went there when the firm was doing the Albert Khan firm, they had the first contract

00:40:36.219 - 00:40:56.385

for the industrialization of the entire Soviet Union, the first and. She went there and lived under, she went there for six months and she, she was so interested in what, um in the steps they were taking as regarding women, women's rights in and that was in

00:40:56.584 - 00:41:14.659

30 or 31 and she was so after that many of her friends would have nothing to do with it if they thought she was a red and they called her the red and sables and really, really. And she was very close. She knew Maurice Hindus who

00:41:14.659 - 00:41:33.270

wrote all those you probably don't know the name, but he, he was, he wrote early books about, uh about the Soviet Union and its inception and struggles and whatnot. Well, but back to Albert's being then having to appear the next morning, but how, what were the

00:41:33.270 - 00:41:50.909

children aware of at that point? What how had they, how would you explained all this? Well, they, they knew day to day to day. In fact, if you read the Mauso affair, it's all in there, uh, the, the, the jail sentence was a, was a high

00:41:50.909 - 00:42:05.379

point. And I happened to be in town that day and or somewhere and so we had to call Winnie, my dear friend, and she would cover for the boys when they come home and came home from school and tell them I couldn't make it in time.

00:42:06.280 - 00:42:24.050

But that night, uh, I should lend you the book if you don't have it, and I think it's only I can get it in Berkeley, uh, but they, they, he describes there just what it was like and what they did and what their reactions were, uh,

00:42:24.340 - 00:42:49.679

Steve, um, Steve, who's such a creative and such a writer, he, he, uh. He immediately said that he was going to write a paper, present it uh the next morning on freedom of speech or something, but you see, They were all, they were all shaken, no,

00:42:49.929 - 00:43:16.750

no question. Tim couldn't eat his supper and he just cried and um. And Brian, uh, see by that time Harvey, whom I couldn't stand and didn't want in the house, he had was undergoing this extremely deep change, yeah, and the kids when the the kids began

00:43:16.750 - 00:43:32.280

to like him and I treated him like a family member, he lived with us. For a while and you know it was it was so interesting so they they were as convinced as I about the the rightness of the case and that helps when you're not

00:43:32.280 - 00:43:50.330

just being slammed but you're, you know, you're fighting back and you have proof. Well, that's why maybe you didn't have a fear you had anxiety but you didn't have fear and the fear. I said to Brian. Uh, I, I felt that I knew that Edith would

00:43:50.330 - 00:44:10.139

give us whatever she possibly could, and we could, we could cope. My father, who was a very, he was greatly conservative. Uh, and didn't understand a thing of what was going on and disapproved of it entirely and thought we were all mad, but, but his love,

00:44:10.280 - 00:44:30.959

I mean, I know he would have given us some support. I think of the thousands of people, none jobs taken away immediately, so I had, you know, it's a, it's a terrible thing to think of and I was just rereading scoundrel time uh. And what stripped

00:44:30.959 - 00:44:48.530

overnight, uh, so that wasn't a fear. I knew we'd, you know, we'd have food and a roof no matter what we might have to sell the house, but yeah, but it wasn't that desperate thing. Were there lots of other people around. Just the, the, the families

00:44:48.530 - 00:45:08.340

that were my friends and you know, and of course they rallied very strongly, um, but I said, you know, talking about fear when the Robeson concert took place in the riot in Peekskill and that night they rocked our house and nothing was broken, but they threw

00:45:08.340 - 00:45:22.389

rocks at the house. I said if I'd been inside that house, I would have been afraid we happened to be in the Adirondacks at the time. So there's a different thing. I mean physical violence and you don't have, how can you respond, you're not going to

00:45:22.389 - 00:45:45.584

pick up a gun, but the other you have intellectual and and other kinds of resources. And then there was, I said to Brian, one of the chief aspects that Kept me from being fearful I'm sure was my focus and my focus was the kids my focus

00:45:45.584 - 00:46:01.120

was the house and when I say the house I mean what we were talking about before that the that it should be just as it is that the flowers be around that the food be the same. That the routine be the same, that the interest in

00:46:01.120 - 00:46:22.429

the Cub Scouts and that that everything maintained and the open channels of communication, that was it. And I said, you know, it doesn't sound like much, but three different personalities receiving the same stress and reacting in different ways that focus, I said I couldn't cope with

00:46:22.429 - 00:46:38.770

the case. I wasn't, I mean, I couldn't take part in the case. I could only see that that there was a. A steady. Well, and that makes the children feel safe that you were rocked in that way and that.