00:00:03.250 - 00:00:24.299

Well, probably big source in the city. Oh, it may, of course, you're going to have to have, you're going to have to have the agricultural wage increase a great deal before you're gonna be begin to draw off the enemy of the city on the, well, you're

00:00:24.309 - 00:00:39.750

already drawn from the city unemployed. Not much. I mean, you got the, you got the major groups, you get the bums in stock now. Well, this has been one of the pro but this, I don't know, I think you'd have to, you have to refine your

00:00:39.759 - 00:00:59.790

distinctions as one employee. Uh If you consider the people who are unemployed because they, they're broken and they, they, they put for one reason. Um Well, of course, they're not, uh uh they're not in a position to, to, to sell their labor price price. They're not

00:00:59.799 - 00:01:15.519

uh by this position or not by, by force of circumstances, not able to say the heck with it. I'm not going to work unless I get certain minimum conditions and wages. Uh Now, of course, of course, this man uh has gone into the field. Uh but

00:01:15.739 - 00:01:35.730

the uh the average American working man who has been employed and used to living on, uh, what we would consider a standard American wage is going to stay unemployed and keep, uh, if, if there's enough of them forcing through political pressure, extension and extension of unemployment

00:01:35.739 - 00:01:59.660

compensation or some other way of living before he's ever gonna go into the field. Uh, at the present conditions, uh, it would have to take a great depression which would, uh, which would mean the country was unable to, to uh support unemployed people uh be before

00:01:59.669 - 00:02:15.979

they would. Uh I don't just hunger go back into the field. This is what it would take. It would take uh a real desperate situation before your unemployed. Uh Industrial workers start going back into the, at the present situation at present wage levels and conditions of

00:02:15.990 - 00:02:35.330

labor. Yeah. Uh Well, as when I was out picking peaches, I ran into three fellows on the truck with me who were uh collecting unemployment insurance and working in the fields and you can do both. I mean, the labor is so casual that there's no reason

00:02:35.339 - 00:03:04.649

why you can't continue to collect unemployment and work in the fields of the city and the fire all about after once with para that work is with start taking lighting the effort of unionization before you get the how uh I, I think you can come across

00:03:04.660 - 00:03:24.240

that certainly. But I, I don't, I don't think that the, the number of, of that type of worker uh put them together, you would be able to say that this is any kind of movement of industrial workers into the A. Yes, you know, you, you painted

00:03:24.250 - 00:03:49.240

this very difficult job. Now, now is there any way that to save government, if, if there were groups interested in to work this out? Like a um is there a way to say of bringing about legislation to restrict the law or housing or you know, to

00:03:49.320 - 00:04:07.589

impose certain conditions on the growers? So, you know, if they're going to have to improve housing or provide services, you see, I mean, it, it might be worth their while to um have a meal. Well, I there's been a whole variety of people who had that

00:04:07.600 - 00:04:25.748

dream and have, have made efforts to uh mobilize what pressures might be brought to the community. But uh it has for years uh led to disillusionment with the American people. Uh But actually, if you look at it, I suppose you have to say what human nature,

00:04:26.480 - 00:04:44.130

right off human nature. But at any rate, one of the important uh one of the important uh groups within the community which could affect us, the working man. And again, I, I don't hesitate to say this because I told you Big Union this to their face.

00:04:44.549 - 00:05:04.910

Uh uh It is the LA movement itself, a curious thing. It, it's here. They, they give $250,000 and you think, well, this lady movements all behind this. You know, a lot of people thought this but, uh, well, uh, they've got their larger, uh, uh, values their

00:05:04.920 - 00:05:26.190

larger, uh, immediate goals legislatively and, uh, though they can give good words of encouragement that they may even, uh, uh, testify before a committee, uh, when it comes down to the infighting of, uh, getting some senator or some congressman to, to vote the way he should.

00:05:27.440 - 00:05:42.869

And the congressman, uh uh tells me that, look, this is the situation and you're gonna force me on this. Uh That means I'm gonna lose another vote for you on this way. And then you get into the whole issue of the, of the rural center area

00:05:47.559 - 00:06:12.649

of being able to uh trade and uh later years chemo uh b you know, all right, you need this for your industrial unions in the cities. Uh just uh lay office on this, leave the country alone and, and you really this, I said I'm pretty, very

00:06:12.920 - 00:06:34.190

cool. But I think in final analysis, uh this is what it is and this has been the frustration of everybody involved in it. The frightful weakness of the labor union uh in the face of this issue. Their, their idealism believes them in the practical politics of

00:06:34.200 - 00:07:03.470

maintaining their own uh position in. And so this is what happened now. That's only one group, the church groups. I haven't been as strong a cat typhoon, find statements or individual made statements. But as a bloody quality, it is certain mind for indirectly by indirect means

00:07:03.480 - 00:07:23.670

is uh uh political force brought bear. But really mobilizing an awful lot of opinion, which could mean something in the way of this hasn't been done. The pressure throughout the bear are tremendous. And of course, I just say this much both for the union and say

00:07:23.679 - 00:07:47.160

for the church that you can always uh confuse issues. OK. So that it doesn't look so crystal clear. And uh no, and there's always a certain amount of irresponsibility connected with this last Union drive. Well, you can find certain actions call their response. You can find

00:07:47.170 - 00:08:03.000

any, any organization, any, any group that had developed, any place, particularly in a place where they had a fight for their existence where you couldn't find something. And so you can use this, you can use irresponsible actions, you can use other few things to confuse and

00:08:03.019 - 00:08:21.540

we cloud the whole issue. So we can say this is, it's not crystal clear, I'm not right and wrong. And then there's our immediate practical position that we have to consider. You can't expect him to dive on into this thing without knowing. You're gonna have to

00:08:21.549 - 00:08:40.008

come up with more facts than another study. This is what happens, I think. So that uh OK. And again, I, I would say just a little appreciative of, of our understanding that I have of the development of groups in the States. And this is something, I

00:08:40.018 - 00:08:54.229

don't know whether I'm right on this or not, but this is the impression I, that one of the things, one of, one of the, uh, notions that is more or less guided us in the United States, whether it's right or wrong and more or less this

00:08:54.239 - 00:09:12.679

is that, uh, each group has got to fight, it's got to get, it's got, but it's got a claw, it's got, uh, struggle within, within, within the, the, the context of a lot of other people trying to, trying to benefit themselves too. Uh And within this,

00:09:12.690 - 00:09:33.299

within this, uh let's not say jungle, but let's say contest uh within this context of, of a whole variety of groups uh with some uh some form of law, some sort of rules that's not completely savage, I guess. Uh uh Then each group has got to

00:09:33.309 - 00:09:47.400

take care of himself and they shouldn't be looking for anybody else to take care of him. And this is, I guess, uh you know, they have been guided, I mean that more or less been one of the principles. And so if people don't understand the community

00:09:47.409 - 00:10:01.549

at large, just what are you talking about, why don't these people get out there and organize and fight for their rights? And then after they fight for it, they might cause a lot of trouble I think. Don't you see that somebody can say cause a heck

00:10:01.559 - 00:10:13.409

of a lot of trouble when they're, when, when, when, when they're engaged in combat and the people complain while service is discontinued and they can't buy this and they can't have that and so forth. But after the thing is over and say, the uni wins its,

00:10:13.419 - 00:10:27.000

its positions. Well, then you applaud them and we love the f women. Then, then he's respectable, then he gained acceptance. Then that's an established, right? He's, he's, he's, and then he holds on to it long enough and he hasn't by prescription. This is more or less

00:10:27.010 - 00:10:43.690

the way people in the United States are investing their right and with the negro having this. And uh I can remember my own father when, when I was going to school and came back and complained about the negro thing and why I think they're just as

00:10:43.700 - 00:10:55.570

good as anybody else too. But uh God, God, they've got a fight for the righteous like everybody else did. Was he a good man? But this was his idea why I couldn't see why all these people in the schools and everything were concerned about handing things

00:10:55.580 - 00:11:13.739

out the silver platter. These people had to fight for the rights. This was the idea that he had, of course, he fought in union. So maybe this is uh uh the history that has meant that the, that, that the, that the agricultural thing comes along out

00:11:13.750 - 00:11:38.039

of its due time, the struggles for organization that happened some years ago. So now uh there, minority group. It's a lot, it's a lot of pain. One thing I, I'd like to ask, um, partly because, because I'm sort of, uh, new to this question. I mean,

00:11:38.049 - 00:11:55.599

I haven't worked in the fields or met, met farmers or anything like that. It, uh, it might be an argument proposed by an economist say that the reason that the farm workers don't get high wages is because that particular work they do is not valuable to

00:11:55.609 - 00:12:13.369

the economic society. The one thing that I think that that even the most antagonistic economy could not say is that the Children of these foreign workers should be obliged to follow the work that their father does purely because he did not get the education which you

00:12:13.380 - 00:12:29.690

know, to decide what they shall do in their own free will. Or also that certain training and education should not be available to the farm worker himself so that he feels the need for changing his particular job. He should not have at least some chance of

00:12:29.700 - 00:12:53.380

doing this. Um What are the conditions in the, in the farming community both as regards the education of the farm workers Children and as regards the possibility of the farm worker himself from gaining a slightly more technical education to allow them to compete more desirably. Well,

00:12:53.690 - 00:13:17.799

uh uh I I there's a lot of people who are interested in this education thing trying to extend education for farmworker Children. Uh oh I I honestly don't think that that's the, the crucial, crucial matter because uh well, I, I was just not right to deny

00:13:18.789 - 00:13:38.359

and then oppose any economist who said that uh that this labor is not worth uh the cost of decency in our country. Uh Well, the, the, the, I was sort of proposing that as a sign, I don't want to get into it. I mean, I don't

00:13:38.369 - 00:13:58.869

think it would be of this. But the thing I was asking more specifically about the thing is what is, does the child of a farm worker have the opportunity to achieve a reasonable education so that if he wants to, he can go into another field of

00:13:58.880 - 00:14:18.469

a slightly more technological field or a field which is able to demand a higher wage than farm laborers. And also what possibility is for the farm laborer to gain more technical education. You spoke of some of the farm laborers that are being a transitory occupation. It

00:14:19.289 - 00:14:41.400

is happening. Yeah, there is, in other words, this is happening. Uh uh uh our labor force here in industrial fields in, in Berkeley and Richmond. Most of the California cities uh is made up of a very, very high percentage. Uh I don't know if anybody has

00:14:41.409 - 00:14:54.900

the exact but I, I know it's time of people who either themselves directly just a few years ago were working in the fields or at the very least whose parents were working in the field Now this is, this is, this is one of the things that

00:14:54.909 - 00:15:13.940

enters into the issue of the, of, of, of your semi uh mechanization is that there, there, there is uh uh with particularly California, with the developing industrial economy, there is a constant stream out of agriculture. This is, and this in itself too is one of the

00:15:13.950 - 00:15:29.840

problems in organizations because the men say, why the heck stick with it when I can, when I can, why get involved in maybe a hopeless struggle, which maybe I might end up just losing anything and just despairing and giving up hope of everything. And if I

00:15:29.849 - 00:15:44.530

do gain anything, I might gain this pittance. When, if I'm clever and sharp and lucky enough, I may have been an easy jump me into a better, better life for. I'll give you a very clear example of this just a month or two months ago. Now

00:15:44.539 - 00:16:01.640

the time goes fast. I was at a fiesta and two Mexican men and they were all dressed up. They looked like uh Bracero who had had one paycheck and been in town and bought some slacks and jacket and shirt and hat before. They were all dressed

00:16:01.650 - 00:16:20.869

up. It really looked nice and, and uh, they couldn't speak, speak a word of English. You know, I got talking to them and asked them what they were doing. Well, I said right now they're unemployed. You employed us before. Well, I was a construction worker down

00:16:20.880 - 00:16:34.780

in San Jose. Uh huh. And now you're unemployed now I'm drawing unemployment compensation. Yes. Um, where is your family? The families in Mexico? We're arranging, we're gonna bring them up. Now. They're arranging to bring up their family. But how long did you work out in San

00:16:34.789 - 00:16:51.609

Jose? Oh. about six or seven months. Yeah. What did you do before that? Well, I was working in Imperial Valley in the field. Oh, so then we want, what exactly happened? These fellow came across as blue card. Uh, do you, are you familiar with that? Well,

00:16:51.619 - 00:17:10.329

this is uh uh it's uh an immigrant for subtle practically. If he, he is an immigrant, he, he, he can, he, he can, uh stay in the country if he wishes to become a citizen. Although the thing that diff differentiates them fundamentally from an immigrant is

00:17:10.339 - 00:17:22.430

that generally they do not come into the country for the purpose of immigration. They come into the country for the purpose of working in agriculture. But they, since they are not, they are not under the protection of the re they're free agents and they're classified as

00:17:22.439 - 00:17:36.239

domestics and therefore, for instance, can be used to break strikes and so forth so that uh they are in, under the laws of immigration, but they're not generally coming in for the purposes of immigration and therefore they generally plan to go back home and they sort

00:17:36.290 - 00:17:52.270

of agree that would that be pretty Right, Henry when we remind us home. Um But so that he came in as an agricultural worker, he was working, they were working, he and his buddy were working in Imperial Valley. Well, they were down there and uh on

00:17:52.280 - 00:18:01.959

a happened to be on, on a day off. Some, they bumped into a pal of there that they had known five or six years ago in one of the board of town who has happened to be working up in San Jose and he happened to be

00:18:01.969 - 00:18:13.560

down there visiting somebody and often unemployed or something. So he told them, look, uh, they're looking for workers up in San Jose. Why don't you work with me? So they figure, what the hell, why not? So, they came up and they're having to be some building

00:18:13.569 - 00:18:29.819

constructor just throwing in another tract of houses and needed some ditch diggers. So, here were these two unspoiled, uh, laborers, you know, willing to go out there and work. And so the first thing, you know, they were swinging, pick, swinging a pick for 260. Huh? Fantastic.

00:18:29.829 - 00:18:46.369

You know, uh, so 260 an hour with all the rest of the protection unions paid their dues. Union, union workers union, American workers. So here they were now and I just jokingly sort of led them into a little trap when they said they were unemployed in

00:18:46.380 - 00:19:05.050

life. So I said, well, sure, certainly. Now you're gonna go back down to the Imperial Valley and go to work in the fields and very seriously. These two fellows. Oh, no, they're not field workers. We're American workers. We don't do stupid labor. They, they, they made

00:19:05.060 - 00:19:21.589

the junk. Well, well, this kind of thing in, in, in, in the agriculture workers community, uh, they all know they have cousins, brothers, friends, relatives, somebody else who fortunately name Fortune smiled on him and they made the jump. And so they see that right over the

00:19:21.599 - 00:19:40.410

line. People that they know uh who can make the jump. Why stick with an organizing drive. Why get all derailed off this way and, and pass up the opportunity to get the heck out of this thing. Right. So, so uh uh for the agricultural worker, particularly

00:19:40.420 - 00:19:56.479

in California, there are a lot of opportunities and you can say generally, uh in California, my experience has been certainly in stock and in many other areas, the Children of these agricultural workers who are settled down are determined. There's one thing that they're determined they're gonna

00:19:56.489 - 00:20:08.699

do, go to jail or do anything else, but they're not gonna work in a field. Ok. So, uh this is of course one of the things that causes a lot of trouble in school and causes trouble, unemployment and so forth because they're determined that they, they,

00:20:08.709 - 00:20:23.119

the kids, I, I talked to hundreds of kids on this and the idea is that they might not be able to, to, to express it very clearly, but it comes out more or less this way. Well, if you don't declassify or downgrade yourself as an agriculture

00:20:23.130 - 00:20:36.130

worker and if you say I am an American citizen and, and hang around somehow, Uncle Sam in the country will take care of you in some way. You might be unemployed. You gosh, they see the kids are unemployed, young men, unemployed. If they're not working in

00:20:36.140 - 00:20:49.239

the fields, they're still somehow getting money from uncle, relatives or friends or some, they're getting it from some place, uh, to be able to wear fairly clean clothes and so forth and walk around and sooner or later they'll get their break in some sort of a

00:20:49.250 - 00:21:01.680

job or also end up in jail. But I'd prefer even end up in jail rather than be a field worker. So, and then there are a tremendous amount of opportunity for, for school. Now, this is not what it should be and this could be improved. And

00:21:01.689 - 00:21:13.760

this is one of the things the CSO was working on trying to, trying to bring the night schools, the technical training down to the areas. These are certainly a great deal of work should be done in it, but this is not the issue and uh for

00:21:13.770 - 00:21:30.119

people concerned with agricultural labor to get off and this thing would be missing the, the noble of problem. But if you can shut, it seems to be one terrible problem with, with the farm. Labor group is it, it's a, a dynamic problem and there are people

00:21:30.130 - 00:21:44.430

just pouring through it. And as soon as you with, with the CRO program, as soon as you try to limit the force to try to have a strike, a force that can strike, you have the Braceros come in and break the month. But if, for example,

00:21:44.439 - 00:22:01.400

you could shut off Braceros, maybe it's politically impossible. But if you could stop the Brazero program, then at a certain degree of mechanization, the amount of domestic labors might be too large to handle the work. It may not. But if it was too large to handle

00:22:01.410 - 00:22:21.040

the work, then it might be an advantage to actually have a certain percentage of these people take technical training and get out of the agricultural workers group so that you have a smaller group left which could then favorably uh get a reasonable wage. I mean, the

00:22:21.050 - 00:22:34.839

employer has the advantage if the working group is too large, but if you can get the working group small enough, so that kind of everyone can get a job at a reasonable rate, then you've kind of got to bargain the advantage. But of course, I understand

00:22:34.849 - 00:22:54.579

that your problem here is that is that there are a huge number of people coming in uh people that are immigrating in preserve Father mccullough. Um apparently in the past three or four weeks, there's been a terrific agitation in Braceros and stock and Tracy and a

00:22:54.890 - 00:23:14.150

few strikes, a lot of, uh, a lot of agitation and I wonder, what do you think any possible future for agitation among the Crows is? Well, I would say it's a gamble. Uh, I know, uh, we often thought about that. We talked about it. Uh, it's

00:23:14.160 - 00:23:37.920

one of those gamblers which could pay off, uh, a general strike of Braceros. That would be an interesting thing to see. Now, ah, I, I would, I would myself, certainly not want to be involved in something that might be just a, an occasional little complaint here

00:23:37.930 - 00:23:57.459

or there, which would just mean great suffering for the individuals involved in it and not large enough to, to cause any general change. But still this is what the revolutions and changes are made of. Right? And, uh, so many unknown factors in it. I certainly have

00:23:57.469 - 00:24:24.550

been among Brasso, uh, where, uh, there was a general feeling of dis satis to dis dissatisfaction and a, and a readiness for just general sit down. Um, but wow, if, if, if, if the union movement or there were some, uh, vocal American body which could be

00:24:24.560 - 00:24:45.270

the spokesman of this group so that it did not permit the thing to get just, uh, uh, is counted as malcontent and, uh, troublemakers, you know, and communists, they call them the general, you know, that anybody from south of the border who causes any trouble must

00:24:45.280 - 00:25:00.000

be a communist. Uh, this is the kind, the farmers get away with it. A worker complains about his wages. Well, he, he must have been a communist down there. Uh, and, and American people are so gullible about this type of thing if they're willing to admit

00:25:00.010 - 00:25:19.550

it, Mr T, by the, or whatever it is. So, I don't know, certainly this would be one way of, of very dramatically changing situations to have a, a great force of it, uh, of, of foreign workers coming to the United States and sit down in a

00:25:19.560 - 00:25:39.949

general strike. This would really be something but i it could, it could dramatically change events. But the, the, the, the gamble would be very high. It could just mean that these colors would be deported back. And if you've ever been around the, the uh frontier where

00:25:39.959 - 00:25:56.270

these colors come through, if you've been down through a well, it's, it's uh I was just talking to father mcdonald's who was up from there just last week. It's uh it's fantastic. He said just you have these thousands and thousands of men are wandering around and

00:25:56.280 - 00:26:12.260

many of them crazy with hunger, crazy with teeth. They're coming over the desert and they're around there. Uh And they're the ones that give the pressure for the faucet, you know, whatever you want, you want. Uh 10,000 Braceros, you just open the gate and boom, you

00:26:12.270 - 00:26:23.079

come out. Well, in order to have to have water come out of the faucet, you gotta have pressure behind it, which means an awful lot more water than actually you want out of the faucet. Well, this is the thing that American people don't see in order

00:26:23.089 - 00:26:45.660

to have this, this faucet effect of Braceros, you've got to have a big pool back here and this pool is filled with desperate men. It, it's, it's a frightening thing and, and, uh, well, to say a half, even 100 men or groups of 15 or 20

00:26:45.719 - 00:27:00.709

maybe in, in, in, in 10 or 15 places might involve even 1000 men where they could be in small groups and be easily discounted and gathered up and put into a bus and sent back to Mexico uh under all kinds of clouds and suspicions just being

00:27:00.719 - 00:27:14.790

rabble rousers and all the rest of it and then just dumped off. And then if, if they have that, if they have that black mark against them down there in Mexico is not wanted, the, the, the th those men are in real desperate straits and, and

00:27:14.800 - 00:27:34.430

uh, this is the gamble. Yeah, of course. Well, I, we saw this when Ernie Garson. This was in 1950. This is one of the pictures I have very clear in my mind in 1950 when Ernie Garth Garson was trying to organize the tomato workers and Tracy,

00:27:34.439 - 00:27:47.290

this was a long time ago. Um I still have this very clear picture there that there were at that time you had a lot of the ***, then you had also the afforded workers. Then you had at that time, many of the, of the family workers

00:27:47.300 - 00:28:05.040

would come up. There was at this one camp, it's called Alonso de Dior. Alonso of God is the name of the mass. So we had this big camp and there were about 75 families uh from what we could figure out maybe about 50 or 60 ***

00:28:05.430 - 00:28:21.540

and maybe around the same number of, of uh legally. I forget the exact uh law that they were under that time, but they were in there legally anyway. Well, then bear and his and his caravan start coming around calling for people to go on strike. And

00:28:21.550 - 00:28:35.910

I remember a delegation of these Mexican workers came to myself and saw the mcdonald's there asking us what our opinion as to whether it was what they should do. And we told them, uh we're not gonna tell you what you should do, but uh from what

00:28:35.920 - 00:28:49.510

we can judge that these people are perfectly, uh are in a perfectly legitimate strike. These working men have a perfect right to, to, to go on to the strike and it's up to you now, whether you want to uh who you want to sign up with,

00:28:50.500 - 00:29:07.869

we, we didn't uh try to tell them, but they had a power among themselves and they decided that they would, would not be strikebreakers. I remember very clearly there they were sitting there in the camp Alfonso came in and to work for the Mexico tra or

00:29:08.219 - 00:29:33.540

Mexico and fellow sat right there. OK. To Mexico right there. Boom, right under those trucks down to Mexico. They went, yeah, there's not much to protect him against anything. I haven't seen any disposition on the part of Mexican authorities to, uh, tangled with the California Growers

00:29:33.579 - 00:29:59.349

yesterday. Hello, Henry. I'm glad you're out of the word. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I could maybe come, maybe come. Yeah, I did more work about it. I had done a couple of weeks ago. Some, some referrals at Ortega Ortega brothers. Weren't they threatened with shipping it back

00:29:59.359 - 00:30:25.010

and weren't they kept here because their contracts weren't up. Yes. We, uh, got the Vice Council to come down from Sacramento and, uh, through his good offices. They were, is that all transferred to another camp that they should back. Henry? I, you weren't here and II,

00:30:25.020 - 00:30:39.969

I, uh, uh, try to present what would seem to me to be an honest, but I would have to admit sort of a, a, uh desperate picture of what the future looks like from the point of view of the organization of agricultural workers. And I admit

00:30:39.979 - 00:31:01.520

that I have been out of contact with things, uh, in, uh, the last several months I, I told him, uh, gave some little idea of what I knew about the, the effort of the spontaneous group which you're connected with and, uh, which you are, um, executive

00:31:01.530 - 00:31:33.109

secretary. Is that right before? Uh, yeah, this is Hank Anderson who is the director of a chair of the Northern. He's a, so, uh, Henry might, um, you explain a little bit more what he sees as the most and possibility future of this Northern to me.

00:31:34.969 - 00:31:59.380

Well, we aren't so sanguine as to think that solely on the strength of a relative handful of volunteers that we've been able to attract, that we're going to be able to, uh, a lick this $3 billion industry in the state of California, much less a $40

00:31:59.390 - 00:32:29.209

billion industry in the whole country of. We do think however, that we can keep enough activity going that the, uh, the morale of the workers themselves will not disappear utterly. And that in a matter of months, a larger scale support for the organizing drive will be

00:32:29.219 - 00:33:02.500

forthcoming then has been uh available even during the past 2.5 years. We think that it's going to come following the biennial convention of the A FL Cio which takes place in Miami Beach, I think in December be. And, uh, we think that the decision to take

00:33:02.510 - 00:33:22.270

up the drive by whoever it is that's going to do, it will probably be put off until after that convention because, uh, you know, these parties don't want it to get mixed up with their other, uh, political irons in the fire. But, uh we think, for

00:33:22.280 - 00:33:46.719

example, that there's a, a pretty good chance that after the summer, Mister Ruther, uh, of the Industrial Union Department and it's fairly conceivable that following December you'll be the president of the whole shebang. Um, we'll dip into some of his very substantial assets. According to our

00:33:46.729 - 00:34:05.430

information, he has something like 45 million bucks and the kitty of the IUD and, uh, they don't know what to do with it at the present time. Uh There are no, there are no other industries to be organized. So what we know that uh that Ruther

00:34:05.439 - 00:34:29.489

is, has long been really interested in agricultural labor. It was probably he more than perhaps any other single person who was responsible for potting he into uh taking over the job in the first place on the rather small scale. He did. I think that if Reuther

00:34:29.499 - 00:34:54.458

himself was to take it up and you do it on a more realistic scale. This is one possibility another of course. And I'm sure you mentioned this is that uh the International Brother Des I decided to good job in their own, the cur your way. And

00:34:54.468 - 00:35:16.729

uh I have no doubt they could do it in this way for better or for worse. I think they also will wait until after the convention for reasons of their own. Thank God. Well, I'm glad to hear the uh the hope that you have that the

00:35:16.739 - 00:35:44.669

A FLC I may make continue with the, I'm glad to hear that. It won't be the same faces in the A FL CIA. That's good. That's all. But this is, this is the whole thing with the new, new patients that, uh, there may be a renewed

00:35:44.939 - 00:36:14.560

effort. If this did not occur. What would you, or would she? The two? Let's see. I think it's going to be either Ruther or, or Hoff. Let me tell you what do you think if Ruther doesn't, I don't think hatha will because I don't think he

00:36:14.570 - 00:36:41.199

has that much, uh, stomach for a really big scale jurisdiction is crap. Seven. It doesn't. But I think, I certainly will. Why do you think? Pardon me? Why do I think the team should move? Well, there have been an awful lot of straws in the wind

00:36:41.209 - 00:37:01.570

already, including some flat statements by h he was going to do it naturally. You discount all of these sorts of things with a good deal of salt. Um, I don't think that he wants to get his own family, uh, quarrels out of the way he's got

00:37:02.330 - 00:37:29.560

in Cincinnati and Chicago and ST Louis San Francisco and elsewhere. But, uh, after all, there are over 2 million potential state members here. He can, if he wants to, you can bring these into the fall very much more easily and any other labor organization could by

00:37:29.570 - 00:37:47.040

virtue of the fact that he, uh has his fingers on the two jugular veins of the industry already, the trucks that haul the stuff to the processing plants and the workers who work in the processing plants. What I do is apply a little pressure. Very simple.

00:37:50.560 - 00:38:16.840

Suggest him, I don't want to tell me to have to, I he wants to organize the unorganized with the million dollars worth of advertising to build up Papa as the protector of the underdog, counteract all the attacks on him as a friend of the Gangsters and

00:38:16.850 - 00:38:51.120

racketeers and corruption is my God. It would be quite public that the top of the smart. So you had, it's, I don't know, but you're, you're with the sharecroppers, um National Advisory. Perhaps you could tell us you're out here for tours. This is Sue Kreischer who

00:38:51.129 - 00:39:30.629

used to be in this area for several years and has been in New York for a couple and is here in California working. Could you? Ok. Well, I'm here. Right, sir. About this c almost and I talk to you. Do you, do you want, would you,

00:39:30.639 - 00:40:03.719

would you like to state what your, what the organization does, um, form of advisory? Oh, it's a pack education organization. It's held it, uh, its first major. I was a big public hearing in Washington with the great at all since then, you know, fairly good song.

00:40:07.280 - 00:40:51.750

Talk to or citizens, the person, some nice things. So the sorts in California. So please, I, like I sent you over the answer, but I'd like to ask you if you feel the citizens commit you should be on and if it has

00:40:51.760 - 00:41:21.360

a role to play, if you think it has a role to play. II, I think the Citizens Committee would be very helpful, you know, a real citizens committee. Uh, it would be very helpful. Yeah. Uh, oh, I've had a, that you are being honored by that.

00:41:25.540 - 00:41:53.439

Sure. I think the Citizen Committee in the direction of somebody that would, uh, uh make it. Uh, well, first of all, be gone, what could this is a problem? You know, the difficulty in getting people? I remember it. Would you have to be under, under the

00:41:53.449 - 00:42:11.030

direction of somebody who have a lot of guts. A lot of patient, a lot of, uh attack, I guess, and trying to get the various, uh, members of the, of the citizens groups that make up the citizenry of the state to make it an effective sounding

00:42:11.040 - 00:42:35.510

board. Get to the public opinion for this certainly could be worthwhile. It's something that you feel a little desperate about though, after you seen the various efforts and he doesn't know how to do it. Well, probably a good thing. I'm sorry, I came in late but,

00:42:35.620 - 00:43:01.149

um, involved in the merging of the old California Citizens Committee, James MS committee and the committee house Emergency Committee in Los Angeles. Is there a committee now? Maybe at some intermediate stage. I was involved. I was on a steering committee. I was on a steering committee

00:43:01.419 - 00:43:20.729

which was supposed to see if we could, uh, uh, with some ideas on how to, how to make the California Citizens Committee an active, vibrant thing. And this got bogged down. And the last time I last communication I had from it was that, uh I had

00:43:20.739 - 00:43:37.179

concerning it, uh, was that there was, uh, there was gonna be uh an employee of the state Federation of Labor who would give a great deal of time to it and develop it. Uh, but then nothing has happened since and now I don't know what happened

00:43:37.189 - 00:43:52.429

down there. I, I didn't follow that. I got letters, I got a letter from that. Uh, but I was never connected with it. I didn't know too much what I did. Well, the last information about three or four weeks old was that presumably the old citizens

00:43:52.439 - 00:44:17.530

Committee was with the emergency committee of Southern California. I think there was any, maybe the people who were on it exist yesterday. Oh, but I, I didn't know if there was a committee. I didn't know whether these people made up a committee or at least I

00:44:17.540 - 00:44:39.469

wasn't aware of it as being a committee, a committee of one by then. I see, I see. Uh I know I'm not a, I am not a, I would not characterize myself as a functioning member of the committee. Think the most minimum definition of be it.

00:44:39.489 - 00:45:09.070

My, what Thank you very much for coming. Thank you for happening. This is the end of the formal part and stay around and talk to you guys. We have not, we do not have a speaker next week at this time, but there will be a speaker

00:45:09.080 - 00:45:18.379

next week at eight o'clock and again dinner from 6 to 8. So we're here to thank you very much.