00:00:00.870 - 00:00:26.569

I, I got, uh, either told or, uh, got a call maybe got a call from Dicking, uh, I think somebody mentioned that there could be a problem in Watsonville. More likely look late 90. At the time, um, and that he was having problems and negotiations. And

00:00:26.569 - 00:00:46.090

then King called me and said that essentially that there was gonna be a strike. And uh he thought it was gonna be a tough strike. And they go on for a period of time. And uh King was a bizarre guy. Uh, I, I don't even pretend

00:00:46.090 - 00:01:09.190

to know him that well. He just was a Uh so, um. Kept his own counsel. Uh, he'd been around for a number of years and had come to the conclusion that he could take care of any of the problems that arose in the local because of

00:01:09.190 - 00:01:38.180

his relations. With the employers, more, more so than the numbers and here it was, you know, a guy who is a Alright White, older. Um. You know, almost stereotypical, you know, it seemser official you have a period of time again they could drink with the best

00:01:38.180 - 00:01:55.339

of them and carry on. Um, And so when, when he told me that I, I was, I, I almost accepted this gospel because what he was saying to me is I can't get this settled. Uh, they want, you know, basically too much and the members of

00:01:55.339 - 00:02:09.470

never gonna agree to it. Well that's the first time I've got on my radar screen and um. I don't think I did anything at that time because I didn't know anybody in the industry, uh, from an employer standpoint and directed calls to get, you know, this

00:02:09.470 - 00:02:27.820

is what they were gonna do so he was really kind of be experts, um. In that area. Um, So anyway, that, that was probably the first time and I don't know the year that was kind of that would be the September of '85, I guess when

00:02:27.820 - 00:02:42.039

they actually walked out and I think they had a strike close in August. OK, so that had to be in the summer of '85, yeah. They had no king had no idea how they were gonna strike. I mean, he had no idea he had been on

00:02:42.039 - 00:03:02.440

strike for ominators. Have you ever been on strike and so he had no idea of what to go through. We had gone through. And, and bring in some very, very interesting struggles but in 1978, we've gone through a big change to strike here in the Bay

00:03:02.440 - 00:03:24.320

Area. And uh the employers, you know, came to the table, uh you know, loaded for bed. They were, they were exact their due. It's partly economics, but there was also uh a grudge against the unions from what happened in 1975 we You know, not only to

00:03:24.320 - 00:03:38.839

surprise them with the side, but we, when they were ready to settle on our terms, we upped our terms, and so they came to the table of his time, but we had to put together a major effort that was about probably 323 1000 members that were

00:03:38.839 - 00:03:55.130

involved in it in a variety of different. California, so we had to put together the grassroots on the ground program had to use all the influence we could muster the hydroc, and uh, we came, uh, we, we, we actually came out of it OK, but we

00:03:55.130 - 00:04:14.320

never settled to strike. We had to get up by the arbitration and but what that did for many of us, and Alex was in the middle of that too if I think he represented the transfer industry. That gave us a um. A real sense of how

00:04:14.320 - 00:04:33.049

to organize amongst the members and uh and also with the public and how to do some things that were a little more creative and You know, just throwing rocks to the windshields or pulling the, uh, strike breakers jobs out of the trucks. I mean, we had,

00:04:33.070 - 00:04:49.640

uh, been doing that for years. Well, that wasn't working because the police were there for for us to make sure that law and order prevailed and so we had to, we had to really kind of, uh, look at things in a pretty creative way and that

00:04:49.640 - 00:05:03.660

helped me watch as well. Because I've gone from whatever I was in the joint counsel at that time recruiting secretary to something the president of the joint council and I was about to see one of the locals, one of our locals in the joint castle just

00:05:03.660 - 00:05:24.279

get run over without putting forth an effort. So in that mix, I don't know the exact time frame of it, um. We got um. How much involved in it. and Bill Walsh you probably have heard that name before, uh, he passed, yeah, he passed away too.

00:05:24.959 - 00:05:42.799

God, he, he would have been a, he would have been a resource for a different reason because he went in with the idea of running the food bank for the employees and, uh, he was a recovered alcoholic who had been through as a member of the

00:05:42.799 - 00:06:03.750

local unions and very sometimes went to a uh inner city. Uh, recovery program in Oakland. And uh the only white guy in the program. And came out of He cured, uh, to the extent you get cured, and, but he was sober for the rest of his

00:06:03.750 - 00:06:20.589

life. So he was a steward before and he became an alcoholic the alcoholism increased and he just went downhill. He got fired. He lost his membership. He was starting to come back and then when he came back he worked out of the hall we use little

00:06:20.589 - 00:06:34.730

different things. Well, when Washingtonvill came up somewhere, and I can't remember how we did it have to be in the minutes of the local public county council or something, uh, we put him on, uh, the payroll and I had a very nominal amount of money because

00:06:34.730 - 00:06:48.679

he was not home much. He didn't need much, but it wasn't a lot of money because we didn't have a lot of money. And sent him to Watsonville to organize the strategy was he was going to do the on the ground work in Watsonville to work

00:06:48.679 - 00:07:05.040

with members who were in trouble, had financial problems, who needed food, who needed help, uh, on behalf of the local, and that Alex was to be the one that would come in and work strategically in that strike, the one that would, uh, coordinate with the joint

00:07:05.040 - 00:07:28.260

council with other locals of the International Union. There's bra. I know there was there was some friction there, but and, and Alex. did something that we normally don't do, uh. And I was very, very wary of ever joining my my it is to get involved in

00:07:28.260 - 00:07:53.359

the local union politics, uh, but Alice had a lot of confidence in Sergio and saw him as being an effective leader who had some experience in what the job entailed and opposition rose and I don't know if it ever materialized, but it did rise up. and

00:07:53.359 - 00:08:14.290

uh we were just absolutely um scared shit was that if somebody knew they got into a political turmoil in the local with this strike going on if somebody knew Jan Christ Almighty, no telling what would happen because the ones that were running were essentially distrustful of

00:08:14.290 - 00:08:30.040

union. They came and the teachers do because they, you know, hadn't seen anything but I think they were, I mean if it were tied up or not, but. But they had some base of popularity there and uh so uh we didn't go out and get votes

00:08:30.040 - 00:08:44.359

and things like that but I helped strategize the surgeon strategize and work with the opposition who was gonna run to try to convince them he didn't have to run or to try to convinced him not to run it that it was not not the right time

00:08:44.359 - 00:09:01.340

and it was, you know, it could be detrimental to the effort for ongoing is like. So he obviously was there then so I, I would imagine he he went in. Uh, not too long after the thing started. Maybe it was back when King resigned or something

00:09:01.340 - 00:09:22.750

or just before. Uh, and I think we sent him in as the local. Maybe the international or a combination of both. I can't recall. I was an international representative at that time too. So I would have some contracts with the IBT to get help and get

00:09:22.750 - 00:09:36.109

assistance, and I can't recall what we got. I think we got, I think we got it somehow, and they may have helped finance a part of that. I let me back up a little bit and get some more on his background. Uh, I mean, I, Phil

00:09:36.109 - 00:09:51.559

Walsh's widow was still her house and I think you told me she was at the wedding or something like that. So that's what I heard, Dolores, and Dolores, I forgot her last name, was the secretary. For local 912 Walsh met her when you were down there.

00:09:53.000 - 00:10:08.659

And they married after about a year. I'm glad you talked to Sergio he's, I mean, he, he does know, uh, he lived out just, you know, day in and day out and day in and day out, and I think that Nana is directed at king and

00:10:08.659 - 00:10:21.815

Sergio was unable to overcome a lot of that. suspicion, I think as time went on and because he was so close to the people and he was there every day, you know, he was talking to her out and and then he set up, you know, some

00:10:21.815 - 00:10:40.309

of the rallies and the demonstrations on their behalf and, um, the thing that we did in joint council. In the time that I, I've been on the joint council board, which was back in from the early 70s, the joint council together and to some degree, the

00:10:40.309 - 00:11:01.469

IBT to join help and assist the local in this dispute. The local didn't have much in the way of money. They had a big deal stuff down accountable and yeah, and so they didn't have any resources. And we did more in that dispute. For them then

00:11:01.469 - 00:11:16.840

I can't I know say uh maybe than we ever did any of the local unions. Uh, we did a lot of igniting the, uh, just not the way, but King City is good, basic vegetable. We did a lot there too, but we did a lot for

00:11:16.840 - 00:11:34.590

them because, uh, they didn't have it. I mean, when we struck in the chain stores, the local units were all pretty large locals, they had some resources, um. And plenty foods and we had that dispute in the southern 70s but uh the country but we had

00:11:34.590 - 00:11:50.039

a, um, you know, locals that had some resources and so you could plan on that, but here's a local that didn't have the resources that was dealing with two large, the larger corporations that they had to deal with who economically were much more powerful than they

00:11:50.039 - 00:12:04.049

were and so we saw the need. To balance the scales and to do something that we really had kind of unpleasant we hadn't done before because we had just a strong fear and that if we didn't do that it was gonna go down and if it

00:12:04.049 - 00:12:23.929

went down it was gonna be a disaster just a disaster. Well, because of the um. Just the, the, the, the, uh, example of here's a teams to local within Joint Council 7 who's taken on by two of the larger employers who want exact what they want

00:12:23.929 - 00:12:42.960

out of this or They're going to break the union and we just, I didn't think could afford to have. An employer can go into a negotiations with that idea. We don't get what we want. We get a birth reunion because it could spill over. I mean

00:12:42.960 - 00:13:00.760

if it looked like there was no effective response from the local and the joint counselor had no effective response, we were just inviting that from other employees going forward. One thing, um, let me run something by you this is a theory I've developed which you says.

00:13:02.260 - 00:13:23.590

Richard Shaw. He was not really out to break the union, but he was at a competitive disadvantage because of some concessions that King had made to what conso and Lossy will carry a few years earlier. And um he felt that there were real serious economic reasons

00:13:24.260 - 00:13:37.289

why he needed those concessions whereas the consulate was simply out best and had been persuaded by was a Mendelson falls back and oh you know, that outlet that he could do it and they showed him how to do it, you know, hold on for 12 months

00:13:37.289 - 00:13:50.280

and they got a research going through and so on. So I mean Alex told me that he came to the conclusion fairly quickly that the thing to do would be to settle with Shaw, you know, do whatever it took to settle with Shaw and just put

00:13:50.280 - 00:14:05.309

all the union's resources he's planning console. I think that's, that was your perception also and if console was successful, uh, that it would be a matter of the survival of the union rather than simply people having to work for a couple bucks an hour less. It

00:14:05.309 - 00:14:17.640

was kind of a, a, uh, you know, and I, and I, I don't, I guess I get strong we finally conclude that was an interesting including a contractor but we, you know, we're gonna have it in fair all of a sudden that like was gonna fall

00:14:17.640 - 00:14:34.929

apart, but anyway, we, I think in that thing I don't think I have that console. Uh, and all of this stuff, he was the one who was reputed has some pretty strong relations with him. Do you know what, huh? You don't know what they were. No,

00:14:35.059 - 00:14:51.260

I mean, uh, I mean they knew each other. They go out together, they drink together. I know that, but, uh, I, I, I just, you know, this. I kind of, uh, my call was almost like God it's bizarre. I mean some of the things that they

00:14:51.260 - 00:15:04.809

would do. I don't know if it was, I don't think it was gonna be bloods I heard plenty of rumors of that because I think during the strike and there was a lot of, you know, snorting and so forth, yeah, yeah, I heard that notcom so

00:15:04.809 - 00:15:25.630

I don't know if Shane was involved. I mean, I don't know, but, uh, they're old school and it's it's, yeah, his habits, yeah, but, um. Give me some background on Alex. Uh, Alex was a um. I was born in China. I don't know if you know

00:15:25.630 - 00:15:49.130

that. Yeah, he was born in China. His father uh was uh Basque. Who had moved to China because he was a highlight player. And highlight was extremely popular in China. This is back, you know, the 30s. And so he moved there as a highlight player and

00:15:50.200 - 00:16:16.369

Alex and G, his brother, were both born there. I don't know about his older brother. And they lived there um. Through World War 2. And to come to takeover. And so I think 47 and then left the country uh 4849, maybe 50 or something like that

00:16:16.979 - 00:16:37.469

um. And I don't know all those circumstances, but Alex was something because he um Remember when you been for office, I think first time in 1969, no was it 169. Might have been 69. Hey, we ran for office. I think it was just you know, and

00:16:37.469 - 00:16:57.299

uh we were campaigning back together just by chance. We didn't do a campaign and then at the same place. My parcel service one was downtown Oakland. We got a small operation. We're meeting with these young cat owners. Uh, walking down the line. First I think campaign

00:16:57.299 - 00:17:12.910

for DA and so we go up to this guy and start talking to him. Alex said he was so hands him the card and then I introduced myself and then Alex, the guy looked his Spanish, I said something in Spanish. I, I lit up. You start

00:17:12.910 - 00:17:31.270

talking to Al's Spanish for her Alex is talking to him. Alex is running this point. was running for office. She's going for BA. So, uh, I thought, wow, man, I wish I worked a little harder in my spanish in high school and so we moved down

00:17:31.270 - 00:17:48.209

the line just to the very next truck. And go through the same picture again and this guy happens to be an Asian guy for her and Alex said something to him in Chinese. Which I don you know, and so they start talking conversing in Chinese, you're

00:17:48.209 - 00:18:03.430

the only other person I know who could have pulled that off is Sherry Chang actually, I remember, you know, I referred, um, when she was working with local like 90, I guess, and having a strike at Harris ranch and maybe to go and I said, you

00:18:03.430 - 00:18:21.229

know, you should call up this. Going to buffal like 90 and the guy called up and says, right, and he said what you saying she's Chinese he called her and says, well, she answered the phone in Spanish Spanish so I I was worked at the company

00:18:21.229 - 00:18:37.359

called yeah he, he actually was in San Francisco. He got hired the office of the City Water Treing. It's a city of PNT in South. And then he ended up some way, I don't know how this happened, but he ended up over and he elected when

00:18:37.359 - 00:18:57.500

he found out that the Teamsters made and the conditions of employment, he wanted to be a teamster. And he ended up working out of Oakland TNT in Oakland and um. Was It's quite a shift. I was his business agent, I think, when I first started as

00:18:57.500 - 00:19:21.969

a business agent, but the 3, the 4 stewards that were there all became officials later in the union. Alex, his brother Gabe, you talked to Gabe, too. Uh, and Bob Bell and uh. A you all all some official capacity issues, so it's quite a group to

00:19:21.969 - 00:19:38.719

represent. I was a young business in Christ, I'm introducing these guys they were PNT motor trucking. So motor trucking is one of the largest trucking companies in done in the west. We got about 400 members all of a sudden on there's another victim of deregulation and

00:19:38.719 - 00:20:05.869

trucking. Alex transfer for office. She got elected, uh, got re-elected. And um We, he was so talented and he was a very the right guy and hey, if you met Alex, you didn't, he didn't mind telling me how bright he was and how sure he was.

00:20:05.949 - 00:20:18.219

I mean he was just that way we all knew it, so we'd always expect him, no matter what the circumstances, to basically put us in our place and then, and, and once he did that, then. One of the things, but he was, he was somewhat funny

00:20:18.219 - 00:20:33.579

in that regard, but he was a very bright, very talented guy. So he would get when things came up, he would get used on different things because, because he had that talent and smarts of it all and had been through so many battles and been through

00:20:33.579 - 00:20:55.959

so many struggles. Yeah, I, I don't know, uh, I'm trying to think back during my years we did have them on the payroll at joint Council at one point. For some period of time. Probably goes back into the 90s. Uh And I don't know in this

00:20:56.250 - 00:21:14.140

if we borrowed it from the local. Uh. And I have Zach, I can't recall how it works. He's been an official then by about 14 years, maybe 15 years, maybe they stepped down by him, not really here. He told me that he took himself out of

00:21:14.140 - 00:21:29.189

action for a while, just sort of went back to driving a truck, you know, and kind of was pulled back in, I guess, so. Yeah, that may be the case and because I remember him stop running and, uh, doing some different things, but yeah, he kept

00:21:29.189 - 00:21:41.869

getting rugged back in because the problem came up and I was something was really he he's been kind of a long standing troubleshooter now for the joint counsel, so, and I, I remember I read his old bit actually in the Northern California team here and said

00:21:41.869 - 00:21:57.349

that he's been involved in about a dozen strikes before loss as well, yeah, um. So that he was fairly expert did he mainly get used for negotiating or for strategy and just all the line of the stuff he did it all. He did it all, yeah,

00:21:57.479 - 00:22:14.089

yeah, yeah. I don't know if, if, if I don't know who came up with each of the credit score and maybe us, but I thought maybe the attorneys or maybe both of them. When the strategy the fastest had advocated of holding out for a year and

00:22:14.089 - 00:22:33.670

it would take them on and that became obvious to us about probably 767 months into it whatever it was. Somebody. Uh, realized that that unit had never ever voted and been voting under you know who it was. Do you know where that strategy came from? Well,

00:22:33.709 - 00:22:50.390

I know Alice is in the middle of it, uh. He was in the middle of that and uh he he if it was him that discovered it uh I don't think it would be Sergio uh no I don't think that there was some attorney would figured

00:22:50.390 - 00:23:04.170

it out, yeah, and it probably was an attorney uh who was close on this and was working with. And they probably looked at the options and then found out that they had had a question and you wouldn't know the name of the attorney but most would

00:23:04.170 - 00:23:22.369

be with the Beason firm, uh, but I it might be the one Beason itself, but it's the Beason law firm but they're in Oakland and uh. They're, the DC is still alive. He's still, uh, so far so he works so uh I have a part time

00:23:22.369 - 00:24:08.900

basis now. Uh, lead guy is a guy named Jeff Fuller, P I L L A R. And uh I guess I think I remember. I It's 625-9700. I'll give it a shot, yeah, they, they, um, are,

00:24:09.030 - 00:24:24.380

uh, I, I would think it would be firm that was there, uh, that was because they were on the cases on council, so that would be normally be the firm that he'd be using. Sergio would know the attorneys that were involved in this too. you know

00:24:24.380 - 00:24:40.989

who they are asking for, yeah, but that was a good decision. I mean, it was from and at that point the strategy then kind of, you know, changed, uh, obviously it's the property election law workers that were on Skype is still those, yeah. Yeah they did

00:24:40.989 - 00:24:53.910

that and uh and we had the lunch and that was quite a day. That was one of the best, I mean, probably one of the most uplifting things I've ever seen in all the years that I've been around is going down and seeing that boat. That

00:24:53.910 - 00:25:12.030

day because the employer had invested so much time and money in their strategy, we realized what it was we moved to forward it by calling the early election. And then the question became can we get the people to come back and vote because they had dispersed

00:25:12.030 - 00:25:30.069

to the almost the four corners of the earth, at least all California and Mexico, and boy, I'll tell you it was amazing how they got him back. It was absolutely amazing and when people just absolutely just flooded. Building where they were conducting the vote and just

00:25:30.069 - 00:25:44.599

poured in and they had been working at the plant at one time or another. It was just one of the most marvelous things I've ever seen. Tremendous outreach went into that. I've been trying to find out how that happened because it amazed me that, you know,

00:25:44.739 - 00:25:59.089

I mean, I've read that that the people who traveled 800 miles up from, you know, southern Mexico or something cast their balance and. Uh, I was hoping I could find somebody. Surgeon Sergio should be wrong. Well, but currently the one person who would have done it

00:25:59.089 - 00:26:11.890

probably would have been the guy who was gonna run against Sergio originally, uh, Gloria Bor's brother, I guess Alex talked him out of her, but he went back to Mexico with his wife, and I would assume he would have come back to the boat. So I

00:26:11.890 - 00:26:23.589

was gonna ask Gloria if she and I get in touch with him, you know, I mean, I'd like some. A accounts of people who traveled. Oh yeah, but now that, that would be great. Yeah, Gloria was a big, is she still alive? Oh yeah, yeah, she

00:26:23.589 - 00:26:40.839

is. Oh yeah, I know she's around. She was working at um. Was it uh Rite Aid I guess for the Uh, big doors down there so last year I think but she had to retire. Now she's 67, but yeah, I interviewed her actually, uh, and I

00:26:40.839 - 00:26:55.099

got a little bit of it on the radio too. I mean she's got a great speaking voice. I mean she sounds terrific over the area, um, and quite articulate. I mean, I can see why she was such a, you know. An asset on the soap box

00:26:55.099 - 00:27:13.589

during this drive yeah. Uh, I know she's just go and you make the wrong and she was there or something. But she did describe, but I'll I'll get to this in a bit actually, because I wanna kind of try me chronologically. It was, was it? He

00:27:13.589 - 00:27:27.939

said it was about 6 or 7 months here. That when you said Alex in there you you would mainly just to sort of help, help the local out because they were broke, uh, they had, you know, you didn't wanna take a defeat and have the other

00:27:27.939 - 00:27:42.140

employers pick up on it and try to do the same thing. Was there any concern about See if you're standing in the frozen food industry generally, yeah, I mean that was, I mean that was based on where I was at, yeah, that, that there was some

00:27:42.140 - 00:27:58.979

of the factors involved in that, but that was just a, a major part of that too, um. I mean, on, on the levels, we, we got into it because we saw thee coming. And it wasn't good for the joint council, but it wasn't good for the

00:27:58.979 - 00:28:15.530

locals. It wasn't good for the standards that the teachers had set up. It wasn't good for the members who were working there who were out basically being replaced. And so for all of those reasons and, and while some locals have that ability to be able to,

00:28:15.650 - 00:28:28.449

to, you know, move forward and to take care of the issues on their own. We just didn't have the confidence in this that that was the case. It wasn't gonna happen. And if, if, if something, if we didn't act in some way to get into this

00:28:28.449 - 00:28:43.400

thing, it was gonna end up a colossale. A lot of people losing their jobs and a president that would be horrendous for workers and for us and you. Have you was that phone call you got from him before his track started was that the first real

00:28:43.400 - 00:28:57.640

contract you had with him? You know, I, I probably, I maybe talked to him. I don't know if I ever talked to him on the phone. You didn't really know the guy. No, no, and I've been around by that time for 2 years, and but he

00:28:57.640 - 00:29:12.530

kept to himself, didn't really participate much within the joint council. He detested everybody at the joint counsel. He thought he should probably be the president or, you know, get more recognition and so over the years just they left him to himself and he left the joint

00:29:12.530 - 00:29:26.574

council to himself worked OK until this, this, this issue, these issues came up this. Speaking, what was your impression after that first phone call you got from him? Was that pretty much decided we got to get down there? No, I don't think so. It was like,

00:29:26.744 - 00:29:42.260

uh, oh, some of the problem, and him and, and boy, he doesn't come up with small problems, so it's gotta be something. Uh, something to be worried about and concerned about, so it put it on the radar screen, but they weren't on strike yet when there's

00:29:42.260 - 00:29:55.939

no battle going on yet. There's still hope, and, uh, but, uh, I at least it got on the radar screen, and I think probably talking to different people on the joint council so there could be some big problems down here. I think it was 890 that

00:29:55.939 - 00:30:10.790

mentioned to me too before King called that trip was an issue on the problem. This was before Gallego's came out, yeah, before Gallego's came on. I don't know who it would be. I most likely it was 890,890 and 912 all knew each other was probably should

00:30:10.790 - 00:30:28.359

have been the same local, uh. That's a thought. I mean, they actually, they had frozen food and you can make 90 food and yeah, I'm with United Foods, yes, you know, I never done it, um. Well The decision to send Alex now if you go down

00:30:28.359 - 00:30:44.969

there. Well, the, the first thing I should say is, I guess I interviewed Joe Fay, uh, who I guess was the CDU guy watches all at the beginning and You know, eventually on at this present at 9:12. He said that he called you, you know, they

00:30:44.969 - 00:31:00.540

were trying to set up the solidarity Day rally on October 6th, and he wound up probably really get over his head for terms of organizing that, but he said he called you. Asked you if you could endorse it and he said I can't do it without,

00:31:01.030 - 00:31:15.589

you know, the approval of locally. I mean as well, but, uh, he said on the day of the rally they all showed up driving that joint council truck and said what can I do to help? and then I guess Alex came in shortly thereafter. So you

00:31:15.589 - 00:31:37.219

were obviously by that point you were already trying to keep an eye on things. Yeah, if, if that happens. I probably talked to Sergio at the time or whoever, uh, do you recall that anything about it, you know, vaguely I vaguely vaguely have a vague recollection

00:31:37.219 - 00:32:00.020

uh. But I, I think that. I mean it's, there were some that would be probably absolutely right. I, I can't recall exactly, but there were, there were political divisions in the local it was unsettled politically and to get a call from a rank and file member

00:32:00.020 - 00:32:18.949

saying, hey, we're gonna do some rally and for me to endorse the rally without talking to the local in the area would have been um. Uh, Well it would have been improper, would have been inappropriate for me to do that. So I probably when I got

00:32:18.949 - 00:32:34.800

the call recognizing the political nature of that probably would have got a hold of Sergio or somebody, maybe Alexson was there. I don't know, but got a hold of somebody. And uh ask them about it and the fact that we showed up it may be a

00:32:34.800 - 00:32:53.030

case of the rank and file organizing into something. And then the local union running as quick as they can to get ahead of this and to be, you know, kind of assuming at least a coro in this so that they're not seen as obstruction obstructed membership.

00:32:53.109 - 00:33:08.349

So I don't know if that's exactly what happened, but it may have. But as soon as they got cleared. About the local we were more than willing to do something and participate because we knew that was gonna be a a good it's gonna be of all

00:33:08.349 - 00:33:22.989

of us. Do you think that it made it easier for you to be involved in a constructive way once King did not run for reelection? Yeah, I do. Oh yeah, yeah. King, uh, you know, he, I, I, he just, he had his own agenda and, and

00:33:22.989 - 00:33:36.189

it's, um. You know, he, um, I think would have made it very, it would have been very, very difficult. I don't think he would have reached out. I just don't think he would have. I don't think there would have been any requests for help or assistance

00:33:36.189 - 00:33:47.469

or or anything, uh, that, that, that just would have fall. I should say that I mean we're looking at this and saying, hey, we need to do this, we need to do this. It wasn't that we said, OK, we're gonna, we're, we're gonna take over the

00:33:47.469 - 00:34:03.170

strike and the dispute, but. We saw ourselves more as a resource for the local and the members in the local than the ones really running it because even though Alex could go down there and Walsh could go down, and he had a lot of strength, a

00:34:03.170 - 00:34:26.678

lot of experience, and they can help shape opinions and maybe expectations to some degree, they still they still left to Sergio, the local leadership and the members and what, you know, what finally will settle this thing and what will resolve it. you gotta be kind of

00:34:26.678 - 00:34:44.129

like. I remember being refreshing all this stuff because I think this just happens all the time. I, I. I talked to Shavella Moreno and um. You know he didn't feel that well, and I called him back about 3 or 4 months later and said, you know,

00:34:44.149 - 00:34:58.600

I've been thinking about that. I'm remembering all he reminded me of all sorts of stuff. Let's get together again. Yeah, the second interview was much better, but you probably do things 25 years after the fact, and yet I, I think interviews are gonna have to. Be

00:34:58.600 - 00:35:10.560

the main source of information here you know there's no getting around it and I, I just wish I. Retired from the PO a little sooner, so I'm just taking it off. Yeah, the two guys that would have been extremely well, Alice was he got, he got

00:35:10.560 - 00:35:23.330

a chance to talk to him. He's good. Oh, I am so grateful for. I didn't even know who he was, yeah, yeah, yeah, he was really at the heart of that whole thing, so he knows all the moves and the ups and the downs he report

00:35:23.330 - 00:35:39.050

to me back to me, you know. I wanted to ask you about that. He did write up the report and you can't locate it, but do you recall where you got it from him at what point? It wasn't you see it, huh. Um, I don't know.

00:35:39.260 - 00:35:51.780

He just said that he sent to him he sent back a report to you in which he sized up the situation in the Watsonville and kind of laid out what he thought. I'm not clear about the timing, whether it was before or after he saw they

00:35:51.780 - 00:36:10.929

opened up the books and Shaw, and he concluded that Straw really was in trouble. Um, they may have data but they've kept the 9-12 files. Really, uh, there's a possibility that I think he would, he would send that to me as a joint council president, uh,

00:36:10.989 - 00:36:26.350

not as local 70, not, not as local 70 as the office, and they said I hope he sent it to join council may have sent a joint council president for local 70 because that's where I spent most of the time. Well, there, I mean that box

00:36:26.350 - 00:36:40.179

of papers that his son gave me, uh, I mean I looked like he was stuff, um, basically I think the majority of things are gonna have your signature on it or something like that, um, so I'm assuming that's where I was going from the joint council,

00:36:41.260 - 00:36:54.959

uh, the files, and I think he probably went through it and picked out what he thought was appropriate for me to see. I'll check with them. I think everyone has a problem with it and then uh he was down there right because one of the people

00:36:54.959 - 00:37:10.340

at the, um, Vince, yeah, yeah, he was one of the 5 or 6 people international set in. Yeah, Vince was uh. Yeah, quite a guy too. He was so strangers a lot of stretch too. He was, he's more on the down guy here uh, the strategist.

00:37:10.689 - 00:37:30.580

Well, let me ask you, um. The RBT convention within what May of '86, yeah, that was where that resolution got through, uh calling for an economic sanctions campaign, you know. Um, were you involved at all in that? Oh yeah, yeah, what can you tell me about

00:37:30.580 - 00:37:52.929

it? Well, um. Yeah. I'm just I'm hesitating because there's been so many revolutions over the years too, you know, if you get involved in uh. I don't think there was any issue of problem with this much of that. I don't know if it was honest that

00:37:52.929 - 00:38:10.449

generated the idea if it was uh. Me, but the Sergio, I know where the initial idea came from the documents, you know, we were no strangers to resolutions because God we've gone back on the deregulation issues and other stuff over the years, so we wanted to

00:38:10.449 - 00:38:28.520

get people on, uh, you know, the convention, the governing body of the IDD on record in support of that, and I I can't recall exactly. I, I don't think there was much opposition to that, right. Uh, I think a lot of support for it, and I

00:38:28.520 - 00:38:54.179

don't know if I spoke on it, but the convention proceedings when, when that resolution will come up, I would imagine we have uh somebody speaking. Uh, Uh, I say love and. Well, when anybody goes to. The sense I got from that is that he had to

00:38:54.179 - 00:39:11.689

use a fairly fancy footwork to get the idea. To give it some likes and you get the international commit, especially the Uh, innovative resources and you know, the, the whole, the Wells Fargo, were, were we late on that? We we late on that, uh, getting it

00:39:11.689 - 00:39:24.729

to the IBC, uh, seems to me we might have been late too. Uh, later, later in their life, you know, you're supposed to make the resolutions in advance of the convention, and I don't know. I mean, but I do know, but the resources, yeah, that would,

00:39:24.770 - 00:39:38.159

that would cause, uh, that would be an issue. Well, I mean part would be the, the commitment of people to go down there, international and, and I guess that was when they Rodriguez and those other guys going in there, you know. Um, part of it was

00:39:38.159 - 00:40:06.469

just the withdrawal of funds or the threat to withdraw funds from, from Wells Fargo accounts to get them to cut off consoles credit, which strikes me is probably pretty significant, uh, in terms of what is stocking. That that could not have been easy politically. Yeah. What's

00:40:06.469 - 00:40:22.310

the timing on that? What what May of '86, so June of '86, I think we're talking about the summer of '86, uh, and I think you actually told me a story of, of being in summer meeting back in Hawaii and realizing that Wells Fargo was having

00:40:22.310 - 00:40:39.600

a meeting over in the next room and you called them up and said, you know, we can't, but that was what happened um. Somebody and I at the locals I'm not sure how they got I got word from both Sergio and Alex, uh, but they were

00:40:39.600 - 00:41:02.540

all pissed off because Wells Fargo. Uh, with this bank that constantly had was was refinancing him to the tune of like $20 million is what I was told and so my god, this was an outrage and Sergio. Called for a rally in the financial district. And

00:41:02.590 - 00:41:22.550

he had members that came up in San Francisco. Do you recall when this was? Well, goddamn this, I was asking about the resolution and always what happened about the same time and then the Western Conference had their like their conference meeting in Hawaii and all of

00:41:22.550 - 00:41:43.250

this happened in between, I think the convention. Or maybe they did the convention maybe they did the rally ahead of time, but. Serge I think still believes this day that that rally, uh, is the thing that turned the whole thing around, uh, on the Wells Fargo

00:41:43.770 - 00:41:58.070

that boy got it in front of their knees because this this this was after the team took in. you know, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, I can, I could look it up. I could ask him, I suppose, but what happened is, I mean, that

00:41:58.070 - 00:42:16.899

was one of the things that happened. He had the valley, and not much came out of the rally, uh, but then, um. I know there were a number of rallies and we started looking. At the um. At Wells Fargo when it may have been because of

00:42:16.899 - 00:42:34.199

the convention. Maybe it was, maybe that's the thing that focused the attention on all of this. We talked about the resources, but what we found that, and we found is that the Teamsters Union had like. $4 billion in Wells Fargo Bank between the Western Conference Pension

00:42:34.199 - 00:42:49.070

Plan and all of the local unions that were doing business. Was politically problematic for the union to say we're gonna take that money out if you don't keep doing this. I mean, I, I gather there were locals who had done business with Wells Fargo for years,

00:42:49.239 - 00:43:10.830

and you know. Not really that that wasn't so much the usual problem. Mike Wang, who was an international vice president and the head of the Western Conference changed this. He is doing business with Wells Fargo. In LA somewhere in it, and I think the joint council,

00:43:11.429 - 00:43:34.860

and he also was a trustee in the Western Conference pension. So he got us to meet him. With Oh god damn it, this guy from Wells Fargo. Reichart is the CEO. OK, like what's the R R R Y. What was the name again? Carl Reichart, I

00:43:34.860 - 00:43:48.060

think was the CEO of I, I just brought Carl C C A R Rehart was R E I C H A R D T. Oh OK. Yeah. And there's another guy here. God, I, I, I, I may be able to create, you know, I've gotta go

00:43:48.060 - 00:44:04.949

through 2000 cards, but I saw his card a not too long ago. But anyway, what happens is Riley asks the guy he deals with, and she goes to him, he says, listen. There's a big problem for us and the answers we need to get a meeting.

00:44:06.110 - 00:44:26.659

With a management or Wellsargo because this is uh refinancing this guy for 20 million and we've got a lot of money in your bank and have consequences so. Out of that came a meeting at the old Hyatt Airport in LA on Nelson House. Radisson House here,

00:44:27.719 - 00:44:48.639

but it's we had a meeting and uh this guy shows up, the vice president that Mike knows in LA. And he was just adviser and then this guy from headquarters national headquarters, San Francisco, each user and for the union it was. I think Sergio might have

00:44:48.639 - 00:45:05.929

been there, but I, I, I know it was Mike Riley was there. Jack Cox was there because he also was the vice president in the international and know he didn't write any times battle that we invited Cox because we wanted to give the impression that the

00:45:05.929 - 00:45:27.790

international was behind all of those areas. I don't know, I think Sergio was there and I was there. And so we had this meeting where we essentially said look. This is uh embarrassing to the teachers. You know we've got $4 billion.04 billion dollars in your bank.

00:45:28.600 - 00:45:45.760

And you're refinancing a company that's trying to break the union and had them out on strike over a year. And for $20 million refinance this is embarrassing to us, but more than that, it's bad business because we're not going away. We've got to wipe out the

00:45:45.760 - 00:46:03.090

company and wipe out the loans and the money, we'll do it if we have to. So you've got to look at it not just from our business but also from the bank's and what they're gonna do. So, uh, they said, OK, well I'm sure the paraphrasing,

00:46:03.120 - 00:46:23.979

but thank you very much for your, uh, for, for that information, and we appreciate that and, uh, we'll take it under consideration, you know, and, and then, uh, yeah, we, the Teamsters, uh, and myself included, I, I include myself in it. If we don't get hit

00:46:23.979 - 00:46:41.320

over the head with the baseball bat or there's not some kind of an explosion, we never understand if anything's gonna get done. So at the conclusion of the meeting. I don't know if it was me or somebody asked this guy, well, listen, uh. Is this going

00:46:41.320 - 00:46:58.429

to be, you know, uh, this, this message gonna be delivered to the uh. Pablo, right, there's a guy we work right under right this is guy, you know, this is executive assistant. So he says, uh, is this gonna be delivered? He says, Well, he looks at

00:46:58.429 - 00:47:20.879

me and he says. Is Mr. Wacker had us? OK, so we left. I was then a week later or or the next week we're having the Western Conference meeting in Hawaii and everybody was giving reports and different 3 then the Watsonville dispute had obviously we've taken

00:47:20.879 - 00:47:35.439

the visibility and moved it with the actual thing in the Western region to a higher level. So, um, we get a report on that and uh. And typically, you know, this all report and was this and we did this and we've got this going and that's

00:47:35.439 - 00:47:49.469

going and the workers are great. They're, they're out and they're, you know, an example of what solitair is all so excited. So somebody says to me, do you hurt and they got the bank. Yeah, I don't know if this was at a side or at the

00:47:49.469 - 00:48:05.550

80 that my ass was so, no, I haven't heard anybody heard from? No, I haven't heard from. So I said, well. I go make a call. Yeah, right, you told me this so I went to the pay phone and um at that hotel we were across.

00:48:05.629 - 00:48:18.149

We were they had like a convention center across the street from the because that was the high Regency too and and marketing or uh Honolulu. So I went down to the next level and the state was, and I got the guy's call and I called him

00:48:18.149 - 00:48:33.290

up. I got hold of him. And I said hi. I said, Chuck May with the changes, how you doing? um, uh, just what my uh what can I do here? Well, I said we met like a week ago, you know, and, um. I haven't heard anything.

00:48:35.639 - 00:48:49.709

Yeah, he said I looked back at everything kind of gold is stupid. It was stupid. It wasn't gold was stupid. I haven't heard anything, you know, we were over here a meeting in the Western Conference in Hawaii. We were talking about it. I know if if

00:48:49.709 - 00:49:06.239

there's anything going on, he says, um, I'm Mark, he said. There are things that are going on and underway and you'll know about those shortly. Uh, would you do? How do me a favor? I said, Well, what do you need? He says, Please don't call me

00:49:06.239 - 00:49:26.139

again on this subject. So I said, OK, well, we had no sooner got back to, um, the Bay Area. Got home and then the next week we found out that the finances dried up and that it was over and not only had dried up and I

00:49:26.139 - 00:49:43.419

don't know how this worked and what happened but The financing has only dried up, but the bank had got Richard Shaw or somebody. To come in and to take over the operation basically set up to set up them and gave them the money to take over

00:49:43.419 - 00:49:57.620

the operation and finance them, take it over from console so that was, that was David Dale and I actually interviewed him, yeah, OK, he had about, he had a big box of his own papers, but he just told me threw them away a few years ago

00:49:58.620 - 00:50:18.620

and since we're on that subject actually. I wanted to ask about the, the way what some of the documents that I saw in my box that you know I got from uh Phil uh hemaa. There is some question of a trusteeship being imposed toward the end

00:50:18.620 - 00:50:34.439

of the strike. Serge I mentioned this too. Do you have any, any, uh, how much do you recall about that? Was there a concern that the local might not be able to handle things if um. Alright, so You know I can't recall that, uh, you don't

00:50:34.439 - 00:51:02.469

specifically recall it, but. They May have been financial issues probably were because locals ravaged by this dispute, uh. And I was looking for help where they could find it, um. And I don't know if this is the case, but that that may have been, it's conceivable

00:51:03.239 - 00:51:24.060

that it could have been floated because they were afraid they couldn't get the members to ratify the contracts. I actually think this is before because the ratification controversy. Happened I think in the first week of March and the initial agreement I guess was they didn't exactly

00:51:24.060 - 00:51:39.679

vote it down just said that we don't wanna vote on this now we want to go back to the Oregon table. And that was over the issue of the the part timers health benefits so and um. I mean I can tell you what I know about

00:51:39.679 - 00:51:57.000

that and you can fill me in the blanks for me um. When the agreement was negotiated and I guess you had 44 or 5 people from the writers committee, 4 or 5 of the rank and ffiers, and, uh, Sergio and I guess Alex, I guess you

00:51:57.000 - 00:52:11.989

were there too during this last negotiation might have been, yeah. The way it was worked was because it was a new company. Therefore, in terms of eligibility for the health benefits they were starting from scratch, and you had to earn your re-earn your eligibility all over

00:52:11.989 - 00:52:31.709

again, which meant that people who are technically part timers, which is the majority of the workforce, I guess, uh. We have to wait 2 to 3 maybe 4 years before they qualify again and they said they didn't wanna accept that. And I guess the big question

00:52:31.709 - 00:52:44.639

was #1 would they continue to be because it was no sanctions strike at that point. Would they risk any kind of a settlement of all by doing it so I I was on that handle learn all that stuff that's gonna and, you know, have that rush

00:52:44.639 - 00:53:01.449

on in the use of the local church and stuff and. Uh, I I talked to David Gill about it and I said, was that, you know, was there any prospect of that being a deal breaker for you because, you know, people were certainly afraid I was

00:53:01.449 - 00:53:13.500

gonna happen. Oh no it wasn't that big an issue. I was disappointed when they go to town, but search you out because. You know, dictate to his members what they could do, you know, it's a matter of going back to the bargaining table we're coming up

00:53:13.500 - 00:53:25.570

with something a little different. I I figured it out about an hour or two, how to sell it, and so on. So I guess there was this one weekend where the whole thing was up in the air and then when it was some negotiations to follow

00:53:25.570 - 00:53:48.860

on Monday, you know, it took about 2 more days to get a ratified, but I remember this too from the time it's a very scary kind of situation. Um First of all, I mean, do you recall about those negotiations? Not really, um, I, I was, I

00:53:48.860 - 00:54:03.959

mean, I would be filled in on them even if I went to them. I was there lending the position more than, and in fact the guy was. Basically the advocate for getting all the resources of the prime prime advocate for getting all these other resources in

00:54:03.959 - 00:54:20.155

there so that had a value, but um I don't recall the negotiations. No, I've not been there, but if it was, it was in fact name only. I was there. To come into the conclusion of it once it was done. I do remember some of the

00:54:20.155 - 00:54:33.594

discussions with Alice on that disappointment when it didn't go initially because they they basically Serge and Alice had worked a lot of, a lot, a lot of time on that, and, uh, it really grabbed a hold of those negotiations and kind of, you know, pulled it

00:54:33.594 - 00:54:49.120

together. So it was an oversight, uh, that the initial contract did not deal with the issue of this is a new company so gave out some special provision, yeah. You know, I, I don't think so. Do you think it was, yeah, I think, I think that

00:54:49.120 - 00:55:02.879

they, they probably thought that that was, uh, something that would settle and something that the members would accept, and, uh, it'd be probably a key to settlement, uh, but, and they, you know, to adopt the agreements calculate because see they, they were when they reached the

00:55:02.879 - 00:55:14.389

agreement they were, they were. To in support of that they told me that and I said, Oh good, OK, fine, we got an agreement. Well, God Almighty, it comes back and it's got an agreement, you know. I thought, what? I don't know if you've seen that,

00:55:14.399 - 00:55:36.070

that, that documentary that came out of that that filmmaker in Santa Cruz, I guess they show on OT occasionally. They actually showed the meeting, uh, um. And uh. Chevell is actually there presenting in terms of the agreement um and I think he probably in the end

00:55:36.070 - 00:55:50.300

wound up voting through a check check, you know, uh, because it was clear that this is something should have been dealt with and wasn't, you know, in negotiations from, from his point of view going into it, it was my impression that it was a done deal,

00:55:50.750 - 00:56:03.629

you know, God, this is like you were surprised by those balances here went down. I've given Dallas space. I mean he that was so big and good and it, you know, giving him full authority goes. I would feel very, very comfortable with anything. I, yeah, yeah,

00:56:06.810 - 00:56:23.429

uh, over the years that doesn't mean I haven't been involved directly in negotiations. Chris I have in my head here, but I joined was enough I process the service of freight. Uh, we had multiple local unions in an area-wide agreements, and I share those negotiations, but

00:56:23.429 - 00:56:38.590

in this, um, uh. You know, kind of is the best of all worlds. You got a seasoned negotiator and a good strategist, somebody that knows the union. You got Walsh on the ground, and I'm the joint council president, and I go along with these things, other

00:56:38.590 - 00:56:51.389

things I've got to do with local 70 and all the other joint council issues. It was the issue of the day. There's no question about it. You that many members are strike and the stakes are as high as they are here. It was something that we

00:56:51.389 - 00:57:10.000

felt very strongly about. I think it's just kind of council ever done anything like that, maybe going back to 1900s, 1710, 20 or 30, but never before have we ever pulled together all of those resources for or his spirit for workers in the local union. Well,

00:57:10.120 - 00:57:28.290

you know, I. When I interviewed Gloria Betancourt on the radio, uh, several months back, I mean. I, I was she was on that committee, so she would have been there for the negotiations. I don't know how I think she would be, yeah, I don't know how

00:57:28.290 - 00:57:41.070

clear she was, but the implications is what was happening until it got brought out in that notification meeting, but. She said, Well, you know, we went on strike for our all purpose anyway. I mean there was no way you could not stay out. And I said,

00:57:41.120 - 00:57:52.389

Well, we you worry about what would happen? You know the women go to the toilet and her about as long it takes to kind of free is silent and she says, yes, because we worried that the international might not get me to support if it wasn't

00:57:52.389 - 00:58:16.610

ratified and she. We had the free seconds he said yes. Uh and. I got the feeling it's a terribly difficult decision for her to make and I never really dealt with her rallies and things like that but she was. Initially I think kind of very suspicious

00:58:16.610 - 00:58:35.919

of the local very she didn't like and no he can suspicious of Sergio but suspicious of the joint counsel here and and the and the IBT, uh, they oftentimes I think. Who consider us almost to be as much the enemy as the employer was, you know,

00:58:36.120 - 00:58:48.560

somebody that they would have to try to beat up on because we're supposed to be their representatives and I did a very good job. And I think over the course of this thing, I don't know if she ever fell in love with this, but I think

00:58:48.560 - 00:59:05.040

she at least began to realize. The amount of time and the amount of effort that was being put into this and that we were all working for the same thing you know we were in a warrior and um. We had to, you know, do anything that

00:59:05.040 - 00:59:21.479

we could to, to, to try to run this for the workers and so we, um, I think she, she became a bit more flexible on it than she was, uh, that, than she was towards the leadership, but I think there's always been kind of that suspicion

00:59:21.479 - 00:59:41.350

that that exists kind of was frustrating for me. I mean, I'm dealing with the local and I'm trying to. Do everything that we can and respond to the requests that they have and then Christ we'd end up getting criticized or or challenged in some way because

00:59:41.350 - 00:59:55.245

we didn't do anything or we didn't do enough specific incidents that you're referring to I can't recall, but there was. Uh, yeah, I know there was a lot, yeah, there was, uh, there was points in at the beginning where we, you know, did, and I relied

00:59:55.245 - 01:00:05.004

on Sergio and the leadership here to tell us and Alex and, and Bill, but to tell us, hey, here's what you gotta do, here's what you need, here's what we need here's what you need, you know, can you do this? Can you go here? Can you

01:00:05.004 - 01:00:21.040

go there? Can you get some help here? And uh then I try to use my position to get that done and uh and then it it still end up with the criticism in papers, the newspapers and in the Baharo and and others, you know, there'd be

01:00:21.040 - 01:00:34.370

the strikers would be criticizing the officers and officials. It got better, I think, as things went on. Well, I think there's a tremendous amount of stress, yeah, yeah, it got better and. And I mean a lot of those people became, you know, shop stewards and so

01:00:34.370 - 01:00:52.909

forth that the strike, and I mean nothing like that happened in local lines well before the strike, and that that accounts for a lot, yeah, yeah, I mean what uh um. You mentioned you weren't sure about the timing of the trusteeship issue. The letter I have,

01:00:52.949 - 01:01:14.250

I think, uh, that is actually the 1980s equivalent of an email, um. I guess he was dated I think in early middle February, you know, 2 or 3 weeks before the strike ended and I, you know it was after. What conso was formally out of the

01:01:14.250 - 01:01:29.159

picture and you had a new owner and a new plan, so forth. The two documents I had to, I wanted to ask you about I should have brought with me. One is a letter I think which is basically encouraging people saying this is no longer. That's

01:01:29.159 - 01:01:43.399

actually strike for we went on strike against watching both here and and they don't exist anymore, but we will continue to see too if you get a good contract and to that effect. Um, and the other I think is an email that went out I think

01:01:43.399 - 01:02:00.209

it shows you and some other people in the union. Uh, said that there's a real dangers here of things getting out of control. Uh, because it's such a a fluid situation. And um one of the concerns that it was expressed, I think, was that the strikers

01:02:00.209 - 01:02:11.250

committee had set up their own kind of apparatus to kind of give talk to people. They had their own bank accounts and they, they shouldn't have been doing it. They should have been doing it through the local bank account and so on, uh, but there were

01:02:11.250 - 01:02:37.139

several other things to the fact that people were picking the bank and there was some concern about the legal issues there. Do you recall that, that, um. That message at all. Um, just. No, I, I, uh. Uh, I'd have to look at all this stuff. I

01:02:37.139 - 01:03:01.040

mean, it just the sound of it, you know, the sound of it though, the sound of a few all of it coming together in the way it was phrased. Um, With with Lenny. Meat believes or I need to believe that they were uh. This was being

01:03:01.040 - 01:03:26.979

done because they may be nearing a settlement and you had these independents were kind of out there and uh some probably flushed with their success and um. Not knowing, uh, not knowing if even if they've got an agreement of some sort in the future that they

01:03:26.979 - 01:03:41.679

could get it either ratified or controlled, you know, the strike would have a life of its own and Uh, maybe not be able to end this thing even though it may be in the best interest of the locals so I mean it sounds like a little

01:03:41.679 - 01:03:57.419

of that to me and I know there's at this point I'm guessing and I know there was concern. With some of the directions, you know, that people went off on, uh, you know what I can do, Chuck, I mean, I wanna get back to Portland in,

01:03:57.459 - 01:04:10.699

you know, 10 days just so I, I could make copies of those two documents for myself and they owe you back the originals. You gotta get them back anyway, uh, and, and maybe have a phone conversation about it because I, I found myself, I didn't know.

01:04:11.139 - 01:04:24.649

Any of this stuff was going on at the time and certainly didn't get in the papers. It was all internalchery stuff and yet it strikes me as important to understand that in terms of how Sergio was approaching things, and all I was doing it and you

01:04:24.649 - 01:04:42.419

know whether it really was. Whether the strikers' concerns about the potential withdrawing support, uh, or whether there was anything to them or not, I mean what would have happened for instance if y'all had not agreed to. You know, uh, and see how that point about the,

01:04:45.100 - 01:05:07.080

I, it seems like a lot of balls broke our way in the end there, yeah, I did, I did. They wanted the agreements, obviously, uh. And we see, we thought we had it, so I mean that would be if if Alex had told me going into

01:05:07.080 - 01:05:23.060

this that. And we got a contract proposal that we can't live with if we're against it. That'd be one thing, but they were telling me, hey, this contract proposal is a good one. We think he's there and we need to get it ratified. Well he, I

01:05:23.060 - 01:05:35.780

mean, you, when, when you at that ratification meeting where they voted to not to accept it. I don't know if it wasn't uh you were the final one at the very end, yeah, but I don't know, maybe not. I think there's a picture of you actually

01:05:35.780 - 01:05:50.209

on the front page of the register operono with David Gill and you know, the, the 5 striker, you know, representatives and so forth. Well, I can't remember that. Yeah, been a lot of strikes since then though too. I mean, well, you know, it takes away so,

01:05:50.489 - 01:06:05.280

yeah, you know, the union ask me to go in there and sort of being part of the dog and pony show, so I, I remember, yeah, he was pretty young guy at that point, uh. And he, I guess he had, had, had the teachers had any

01:06:05.280 - 01:06:17.320

dealings with him before? I know that he said that even the organizers periodically show up at his ranch, and, you know, in, uh, in King City and try to organize it. You know, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe they did when we were trying to

01:06:17.320 - 01:06:45.100

look at farm workers, yeah, farm workers in the station. But uh. That was kind of a bizarre so interesting, that was an interesting, uh, really kind of just a whole interesting development and how it worked. Well, um. I actually, well, I should, I should go home

01:06:45.580 - 01:07:01.280

and mail you those two documents and then, OK, and then I need to make sure that you can visit Zone castle at some point, yeah, I mean, I would see if they've got those 9-12 files, uh. I hope they do. They do that that could be

01:07:01.280 - 01:07:15.699

this is this is different than from what Alex pulled together for me. It probably is, yeah, because we have just let they may have blessed the new God and more, but it would be all of the joint counsel stuff, yeah, I mean some of that. That

01:07:15.699 - 01:07:34.149

was none of your business, so leading during that period leading up to it in the discussions that took place at the board, there would be references to that in those minutes and if we approved anything, any spending of any money that's in those money, but that

01:07:34.149 - 01:07:55.050

whole period is after console formally relinquished control of the company. And everything is sorted in limbo. You don't really feel comfortable trying to reconstruct that now in terms of how the cases you're dealing with that. No, I can't recall. I just said I'm I'm not. I

01:07:55.050 - 01:08:15.449

remember he was out and then we got a you know a lot of the specifics, uh, kind of just at what point should the union stop paying, uh, strike benefits. I don't know. I don't know, I didn't know you, you know. This is stuff I kind

01:08:15.449 - 01:08:26.080

of have to be clear on if I'm gonna write about it because if it, it, it seems very, you know, you look at the big picture, it doesn't seem to matter that much, but before we can stretch how you got it for you. I might be

01:08:26.080 - 01:08:39.680

able to find that out for you. I mean, I, I would imagine that I'd be teas not yeah, yeah. So maybe what I should do, um, I'm gonna come back down again in September actually I want to spend some time in Washingtontonville just talking to strikers

01:08:39.680 - 01:08:53.279

because it it's too hard to kind of do it on the fly the way I've been doing that. I need to spend a couple of weeks in town sort of knocking on doors. Uh, and, um. Perhaps we could talk. You want to know when those strikes

01:08:53.279 - 01:09:12.319

will come out, when the benefits ended, uh, at what point the strike is no longer considered a formal sanction strike, uh, uh, what kinds of considerations going on in terms of the union's relationship to this to the strike, uh, once consul is no longer in charge

01:09:12.319 - 01:09:32.490

of the company, whether formally that meant the strike is over once consul is out of the picture. And then how because the strike actually didn't end for several more weeks what the team's actual rela you know formal relationship was to it during that period, yeah we

01:09:32.490 - 01:09:51.220

were. I, I, I, we were still in. I mean, I, I can't recall, uh, exactly, but we, until we got that agreement finalized and we were still there right now. you obviously we're still negotiating with you. I'm curious if that's something that I like to work

01:09:51.220 - 01:10:03.009

out with the bank, you know, or with you or whatever, and that's that's the interesting thing I don't know how that happened, but Wells Fargo cut our hassle, and then Bill shows up, I guess financed by the bank. They almost went out and got him. That

01:10:03.009 - 01:10:14.890

was they did, they did, and Sergio like to talk to him and said if you're gonna take over this plan to go to ER house and they could pay, and he, this is one of the first things that he told me that he wanted to tell

01:10:14.890 - 01:10:33.109

me about. So like it's like. If they hadn't found the fire, we would have on shit creek, and I heard this guy was interested. I've heard that, you know, basically he was in danger of losing his shirt because of consoles on pay tests, and I went

01:10:33.109 - 01:10:49.370

and talked to him basically got on. It's really the idea that the union they're not there to make it pay. They need the experienced people around to pick for money and make it pay. Um You told me that he had no desire to take over the

01:10:49.370 - 01:11:05.240

car this is preferable to. Going into the bankruptcy court and fighting for his piece of the action, you know. I have huge legal bills in the process is is easier to do it this way, but that he basically unloaded the company as soon as he made

01:11:05.240 - 01:11:21.299

back the money he had lost during the strike. And I guess some Midwestern outfit bar or something like that. So that's, that's what I know. Um, it seems like it was the union would have had to have done some really fast footwork during that whole period.

01:11:22.149 - 01:11:34.479

So much was up in the air. There was a lot of rumor mongering in the press about it. I don't think the strikers really knew exactly what was going on. Uh, I have Sergio's version of it, uh, so you know, a lot of it is kind

01:11:34.479 - 01:11:50.939

of like fact checking making sure different accounts can be reconciled. Um, and I think this is one of many where I really need to know more, especially because Sergio has. The trusteeship and that the prospect of the trustee was a huge issue for him when I

01:11:50.939 - 01:12:05.379

interviewed he felt like it's like. Uh If I didn't play my cards exactly right, you're gonna lose control of the situation, and the internationals gonna kind of take over and then the worker's gonna be pissed off and you know we'll be right back at square one.

01:12:05.990 - 01:12:22.705

So that's, that's kind of his narrative and he might be right, yeah, I mean he, uh, but again I he keeps coming back. A this my thoughts to that was all done to pressure everybody, the workers to the company and to the companies over there, but

01:12:22.705 - 01:12:46.950

the workers and the local to, you know, get real about this situation and try to bring it to some kind of conclusion, um. You know, we To know when to declare victory in a situation was, uh, the, um, because I don't think after all of that

01:12:47.600 - 01:13:03.209

the only reason I can see like I don't. It would be that, hey, you know this thing, there's no control with the group here they're just all over and we've gone through all of this and don't have all of this put all this together, got this

01:13:03.209 - 01:13:22.140

guy out the door. Here's somebody here that we can deal with and, uh, uh, or we think we can and uh and I don't doubt Sergio's story in contacting you but I've seen to the call that just telling me that, uh, uh, but. Anyway, they uh.

01:13:23.720 - 01:13:47.839

Uh Does that I, I, I, I, I still think having this phone like just the recollection service to kind of hold everything in line together as opposed to, you know, the loudest voice getting older in this situation, but I don't, I mean. Joe Pey he was

01:13:47.839 - 01:14:03.459

the one who spoke up their ratification, and he said, look, if if this is ratified the part time, you're gonna have to wait for their benefits. And Sergio was furious at uh at the time. He says, now, you know, as pissed off as I was that

01:14:03.459 - 01:14:21.629

I I have to give him credit. We got a better contract as a result of this really gonna happen, it would have gotten, you know, so I wanna get the man due, um. I'm not sure that people would have realized and so. After the bank was

01:14:21.629 - 01:14:34.270

drawn on the agreement, what the implications were that this is a new company and the health benefits are not, you know, deal, you know, it's not gonna go back to where you were before the strike in terms of your medical coverage. I think you're probably right.

01:14:34.470 - 01:14:50.810

Yeah, I think it's, uh, any number of members wouldn't be clear on that, but they would have been one day. Went back to work. It went back to work kind of interesting because, uh, surgery er that would be understandable if he supported. Well, he stuck his

01:14:50.810 - 01:15:02.529

neck way out with you know he said, hey, I'll get the union behind you. I'll get the service behind you, and then it looked like he couldn't, yeah, he couldn't couldn't make him look bad. Yeah, so it was, it was, he had something invested in that

01:15:02.529 - 01:15:20.910

and so did Alex and they couldn't deliver it and uh. So That'll be interesting. It'd be interesting to see those notes, uh, for the papers, and I'll check through to see about the minute. Let me, let me take out the, the relevant stuff. I'll make copies

01:15:20.910 - 01:15:37.709

for myself, and I'll send the rest back to you. I said the me and that's really good here. You should probably tell me where to send that stuff, uh, the, um, you're talking about the stuff on the documents that still keep our lasting for just add

01:15:37.709 - 01:15:55.200

it, um. I don't, I don't wanna give you the whole box. I want my copies of these particular things I've been asking you about. Why don't you send them to, to, uh. Joint Council 7 for joint counsel 7. I'm she's out there exactly the Park Boulevard

01:15:55.200 - 01:16:00.319

in San Francisco.