00:00:09.140 - 00:00:26.350

He was I think I'm trying to think of the character thing, but that work council, yeah, yeah, surge work council. was going to get refinanced by Bank of America. You don't know how you found that out. I think it was a Sergio because Sergio ended up

00:00:26.350 - 00:00:43.360

going over to San Francisco and having this big demonstration. He had differ on this point. He thinks that the demonstration with it wasn't so let me make sure I understood that right. Sergio wanted to have a demonstration at the bank and he thought it better to.

00:00:43.604 - 00:00:54.474

I didn't care about the demonstration, so we had a demonstration. We went over to Wells Fargo Bank in San Francisco and they had a demonstration, but they had a demonstration out in front of it. He was on to this that they were going to get refinanced,

00:00:54.514 - 00:01:16.000

and I don't know where he got the information he's he's he wants to, he's still. I'll look him up. So, um, and it's go with us, so I'm You know, pissed off about this, and I know that we're doing some business with Wells Fargo Bank. The

00:01:16.000 - 00:01:37.220

pension trust at the time was and I trust in the pension. So I get a hold of Mike Roth who at that time was President Joint 42 and anyway through researching. With our developing information with our locals in the pension trust, we find out that the

00:01:37.220 - 00:02:04.699

Teamsters in the West have, we're doing $20 billion worth of business with Wells Fargo. Warming. We have several billion dollars of business billions, and the more council was $20 million. So we then reach out through Riley Riley's office reached out and we had a meeting with

00:02:04.699 - 00:02:27.220

an executive vice president. Of Wells Fargo. Oh God, what's his name? Craig, Craig, Craig, um, no, it's not. cards and I was going through them today. I can, but we ended up with a secret meeting. With him, the local Wells Fargo guy that joined Council 42

00:02:27.220 - 00:02:45.660

did business with LA LA, Riley, Jack Cox, international vice president, and myself. I can't remember if there or not. He might have been. This was at the Old Hyatt Regency, which is an airport in the Hyatt, Hyatt Airport in LA. which today is Radisson, so we

00:02:45.660 - 00:03:01.570

get down here and we're having this lunch. This is in LA. And um he said to the guy, you know, we understand that the bank is and you knew what we're reading, you know, that was explained to him and they were really concerned because the bank

00:03:01.570 - 00:03:20.479

has Dispute going on with Wells Fargo. I mean with Watsonville. We've had it going on for a year and a half or thereabouts, and here Wells Fargo sitting talking about refinancing. I said, God, that's embarrassing to us. We've got 10 billions of dollars in business with

00:03:20.479 - 00:03:35.550

your bank. Now how do we explain that to our members and our local unions? Uh, and, and on top of that, it's a bad investment because we're not going away and we're going to put this guy out of business. And so that was that was that

00:03:35.550 - 00:03:49.759

was what we argued at the meeting. He asked some questions and it was a congenial luncheon and after that he went his way and we went our way. And it just so happened, I think it was the following week that we had a Western region meeting

00:03:49.759 - 00:04:08.520

in Hawaii. And Watsonville Canning. And that dispute, that food processing dispute was one of the items that we talked about. It was one of the items that was on the. It was up for discussion, the status of the dispute and thanking everyone for the help that

00:04:08.520 - 00:04:23.679

they've given and giving people some hope that yeah we could win this. And so as we're discussing this stuff, somebody asked me, well, did that guy ever contact you or maybe Riley did. Did he ever get back to you, the vice president. And I said, no,

00:04:23.989 - 00:04:36.059

did get back to me. I said they get back to you and I never got back to me. I forgot Craig somebody who was the CEO. That was one of the funny things. I'll look it up. Uh, we asked him that question. Hey, this is gonna

00:04:36.059 - 00:04:50.589

get back to the top typical teams of fashion. Forget about the top. I'm here in the direction of so and so the CDO Wells Fargo. So we, uh, I said, you know. I'm gonna call that guy out. Well, I go to the phone. We're at the

00:04:50.589 - 00:05:04.559

higher LY in Honolulu. I go to the phone at at the convention centers across the street. I don't know if you've been there or not, but so I just got the phone. And I called them And I got a hold of And I said, hey, Mr.

00:05:04.640 - 00:05:19.690

So and so just checking out the Teamsters, and I was just kind of getting back to you because you know we haven't heard anything. Well hits the head with a hammer we still get the point here, and he says, uh, well, he says, Mr. Mack, I

00:05:19.690 - 00:05:35.850

can assure you that, uh, I've taken to your concerns to the highest level of the bank, and that, um, we're discussing it. We have formulated a policy and I think you'll see it unfold in the next few days. Uh, can I ask you a favor? I

00:05:35.850 - 00:05:52.720

said, Well, sure, what is it? He says, Please don't call me again in this matter. And I thought, well, I'm not sure what this means. So, um, coming back and got hold of that. I said, I'm not sure what's coming down here, but I said this

00:05:52.720 - 00:06:11.500

is why I said, by the way, the guy told me not to call. Well, it couldn't have been a week later that The council announced that he's going under. He's out of it. The bank's taken over. The bank got a hold of Shah or somebody, and

00:06:11.500 - 00:06:26.809

they, I I'm not sure it was, but whoever they got a hold of, they called us right away to sit down for collective bargaining. And within 3 days I think it was, we had an agreement and it provided for all the workers to come back to

00:06:26.809 - 00:06:44.890

work and the contract got ratified. I remember there was some back and forth about that over the health benefits a few things a bunch of got down and they marched on their knees for several blocks to kind of hold out for keeping the health benefits. There

00:06:44.890 - 00:07:04.799

were a couple of issues that were tough. But and then finally got ratified and It was amazing. I mean just amazing but all everything that we had gone through. And when you think about that, we had billions in that bank and they were financing that, and

00:07:04.799 - 00:07:18.109

we didn't even know about it until we got down to that like the last last that refinancing until he wanted to refinance. Somebody had to tip Sergio off about that. I don't know who it was, but somebody tipped him off that he was trying to get

00:07:18.109 - 00:07:33.170

refinancing at the bank, but I thought maybe it was maybe it was something in the bank at Wells Fargo and Watson. I mean, I remember there were pickets that went up around the back and walking, not pickets, there were demonstrators at the back and uh. I

00:07:33.170 - 00:07:45.700

guess the Watsonville branch, you know, a bunch of strikers went down there, yeah, probably they went up to, I think where their offices are Montgomery or somewhere, yeah, that big tall building down Market Street. They were there too, yeah, yeah, I got a little news coverage.

00:07:46.690 - 00:08:05.089

I've got a photo somewhere, you know, Gloria Betancourt and a bunch of other sort of standing there with their arms folded, you know, tougher than hell. Jesse Jackson came in that I remember. But you know, kind of a funny deal too when he came out it

00:08:05.089 - 00:08:20.980

was. Well, I wanted to ask about the Teamster convention was in May of '96 and I guess this issue came up then even before the recertification vote took place, and I, my sense was that there was some movement on the convention floor to get some kind

00:08:20.980 - 00:08:45.028

of action in support of the strike. Do you? Can you reconstruct that for me? Uh, let's see. I guess the notes I have say that I mean in the end you spent a lot on strikes, but there was also $20,000 allocated for economics. This would have

00:08:45.028 - 00:09:16.270

been at the convention in May, the international convention in Vegas, and if there was a resolution to allocate $20,000 for. This is right before the recertification vote strategy kicked in and actually yeah we put together something that convention I think record strikes and and I guess

00:09:16.270 - 00:09:41.989

I could consult the convention so you that's available, you know, just go to the library I would think. Did you draft that resolution or did I worked with whoever drafted it. And I can't remember all of the specifics and the details of it. It would be

00:09:41.989 - 00:09:57.479

interesting to kind of look at that myself to see who did that. And how we did it was I thought it was, was there much resistance to it? Oh no, no, no, I don't remember a whole lot about it. It wasn't a big controversy wasn't a

00:09:57.479 - 00:10:12.890

big struggle, yeah. I can understand that. Now, the recertification idea, how did you, do you recall how that happened? Was it uh Was just a fluke that they came on the realization that there was a legal basis to have an early vote. We knew as we

00:10:12.890 - 00:10:34.260

were going forward this thing dragged on that. There was no question the company was going to wait the the call for a vote. And I think Alex Ibalaza was close to that. He was a business agent here. came out of. He was bilingual. I probably should

00:10:34.260 - 00:10:51.580

try to find this person. Yeah, Alex is around. What's his name? He row Y B A R R O L A Z A I BA for which was that? He was a BA here in Local 70, but he was helping out on this. We did a

00:10:51.580 - 00:11:08.729

lot on it here at Local 70. So it wasn't the lawyer who came up with this idea. It was like we all know, it was, I think a combination. Discussions and different things and researching to find out that It probably started in about the 6 month

00:11:08.729 - 00:11:31.929

period they're going to come up with this and what do you do and then I would imagine it probably was an attorney that raised the question, you know, has it ever been certified before? Yeah, you don't recall details, Alex? Yeah, he's in the Bay Area. He

00:11:31.929 - 00:11:59.690

lives in. But I wish I'd retired a little sooner. I'll be easier to track some of these folks down. I know when I talked to Santos, she said that, you know. There were always like kids from, you know, the campus coming through wanting to interview somebody

00:11:59.690 - 00:12:16.419

for a paper, but it's like, but it's a whole, I mean, there's a world of difference between somebody writing a paper for a history seminar at UC Santa Cruz and you know, getting a few interviews and so on and actually reconstructing this incredibly complicated stuff. I'm

00:12:16.419 - 00:12:39.570

just surprised that nobody Really tried to write a book about it before now. It really is one that I thought deserved and I mean it was. Just the twists and the turns not knowing whether you were going to succeed or not, the doubt. just the tremendous

00:12:39.570 - 00:12:58.049

difficulty on the experienced by so many other workers the frustration, the frustration of not being able to deliver from a union representatives part for them, and but then too the courage that they had the fortitudes, you know, sticking with this thing and staying with it and

00:12:58.049 - 00:13:16.880

being loyal to each other and to the union was amazing, just an amazing sight. You know, the, the Teams had been in the Watson volcanories for what, about 20 years before the strike happened? Yeah, probably in the 40s, in the 40s. And Did it come in

00:13:16.880 - 00:13:30.559

around the same time that the master freight agreement was kind of shaping up on the western stage? Hollywood before before and I think it took shape, started to take shape in the late 30s and when that whole spate of organizing went on after the passage of

00:13:30.559 - 00:13:49.299

the Wagner Act. Even even following the passage of Taft Hartley, it's still, you know, we're still gaining and picking up. We pretty well staked out, uh, the canning industries as a jurisdiction of ours, and we had the uh candy council and, and that's another thing that

00:13:49.299 - 00:14:04.059

I don't really understand. I mean, I'm not sure about that, but the canneries, I think maybe started to work in a CIO or something and then. Came into the Teamsters, you know, I think the late 30s, early 40s, something like that and I don't know exactly

00:14:04.059 - 00:14:21.219

how it occurred there was that they had was a cannery and packing house, and agricultural workers organized or something. I mean, I don't know what became of it came from the others that came over and so when they came the teamsters let them continue the cannery

00:14:21.219 - 00:14:36.755

council. That was part of the part of the deal. They could continue on with their cannery council. to just completely absorbed by teams for locals. They have their own local council, and 912 was not just a cannery local 912 is general jurisdiction processing, but UPS drivers

00:14:36.755 - 00:14:56.429

in there and you know, warehouse people in the works. Anybody in the Watsonville area who was a teamster was not local. That's right. What proportion at the time of the strike, what proportion of people were working in the frozen blue plants? I don't know. I'm not

00:14:56.429 - 00:15:18.609

sure. I'd say probably about 75%, but that's just a guess. You say 75%, yeah, it is overwhelmingly. Um And you know well too about the just the generational change that took place shortly after this thing went on, that was the end of. He stepped out and

00:15:18.609 - 00:15:33.570

he was up or whatever. He didn't run and the last time I saw Sergio, I went to a we were still living in the Bay Area, then I went down to San Jose for a Uh, it was an SEIU, you know, Justice for Janitors thing about

00:15:33.570 - 00:15:48.210

NAFTA, and their big thing was they brought Cardenas up from Mexico, you know, the guy had the election stolen from him, and that was the big draw, and Sergio basically stole the show from him. I mean, it's like. These guys were all undocumented and really they

00:15:48.210 - 00:16:00.570

wanted to go home and they were saying, what's what's so terrible about the idea of US corporations setting up plants in Mexico? We can get jobs there, you know, Cardinists did not really have any answer. Sarah Jo got up and said, When have American corporations going

00:16:00.570 - 00:16:10.460

to Mexico ever brought us anything but grief? You know, I grew up there just like you guys did. I went to the same school. I studied the same history of what Standard Oil did to our country. I mean, it was great, you know, and he had

00:16:10.460 - 00:16:24.299

their attention, you know, but if he hadn't been there to say that, I think the meeting would have been a bust. It would not have accomplished what the organized wanted it to do. And so he can really, can really talk on that here. Well, at that

00:16:24.299 - 00:16:38.469

point, 9/12 was putting a huge amount of energy into fighting NAFTA. I mean it was too late to kind of salvage the situation in Washington at that point, I would think. Someone told me they've got a big stack of documents, you know, and so forth from

00:16:38.469 - 00:16:56.419

that whole period. Do you know anything about that? No, I guess I can call Santos back and see if he can dig it out. I don't know who to have that. I need to see. Sergio Sergio might have, yeah, I'm sure he'd have a lot of,

00:16:56.520 - 00:17:14.069

and he is in Watsonville. I should, I should just drive down there and, you know, get some phone numbers from. Given to me. I wanted to ask a little bit about the situation with Richard Shaw. The early settlement they had there and they had that me

00:17:14.069 - 00:17:33.280

too clause in their contract which I imagine caused a lot of consternation and They actually sort of set the the existing floor for wages in the industry about 585%, which is about 20% less than it had been when they first went out. Was there any kind

00:17:33.280 - 00:17:51.199

of Pressure on them to settle on the workers to settle at that point that you're aware of the 912 workers I mean Shaw or do they just do it because they thought this is let's grab all we can and you know I think that just grabbing

00:17:51.199 - 00:18:08.310

what they could grab. As I recall, I wasn't part of the discussions on this, but we discussed this generally and saw the Shah thing as a break because at least he was willing to talk and what had been a common front and then there were some

00:18:08.310 - 00:18:22.199

needs there that they wanted to address, and the question was can we address those? Can our members address those needs? And we looked at it from Political side, obviously, but also the strategic side so it wasn't like it wasn't a surrender. Oh yeah, I've got we've

00:18:22.199 - 00:18:37.030

got a proposals grab and run we can get. The question was obvious. What is this going to do? What kind of pressure does this put on we felt the pressure was significant. It would be an opportunity for us to intensify the pressure on him and break

00:18:37.030 - 00:19:00.540

whatever alliances they had the two of them. Did he grab some's been running that plant for quite a while. He was an experienced operator and he knew the chances he was taking and yet it seems like he got himself into a terrible hole. Yeah, I guess

00:19:00.540 - 00:19:29.819

his dad before he did and relationships with King Richard Shaw, the consul. And then it got passed down to the kids. He continued those relationships until that's right. Of course, by the time Shaw settled, Richard King wasn't in the picture. He'd retired he was dealing with

00:19:29.819 - 00:19:43.189

an unknown quantity surgeon was an agent there, yeah, so I knew the surgeon knew them, but he wasn't, you know, kind of a good old boy. What's his name? King was, I mean, King, you know, they socialize together. They go to lunch together, fathers, you know,

00:19:43.239 - 00:20:01.599

when started party together and, and Dick was, you know, pretty good rounder up that bar that was adjacent to the union hall was his bar and, uh, you know, he was obviously he was looking to know he was a guy that enjoyed his, uh. This afternoon

00:20:01.599 - 00:20:22.709

to evening cocktails. I mean he was a drinker, yeah. And kind of a surly guy, a non-communicative and Jay, I mean Jay hated like. But he's a smart guy. He was the most personal. Sometimes it helps not to be personal here negotiating. I could never do.

00:20:24.469 - 00:20:44.180

He was he was actually pretty good negotiate. He's been around for a long time. Um I mean just in terms of what happened afterwards, it's like the shutdown started within what really about 8 or 9 months of the settlement was it Crosetti that left first, yeah,

00:20:44.260 - 00:21:05.969

I can't recall, but yeah, you're right, it started. And, and you know, I not being involved in any of the employer discussion and even close enough to. The role I played was to try to gather whatever support I could to sustain the local union through this

00:21:05.969 - 00:21:23.510

dispute. It wasn't to get directly involved in the negotiations unless they felt it was of value to me doing that, but it was a local union and our joint council that was being, you know, in the fight of their lives, and I was going to do

00:21:23.510 - 00:21:42.349

everything I could to get the support, help, and assistance that they needed so they'd be able to. Maintain and And sustain their members during that dispute and we were successful beyond our imaginations. I mean the wildest imaginations we didn't realize that we could, how would you

00:21:42.349 - 00:22:01.219

explain that? Well, I think that we never gave up. And accepted defeat, even the possibility of defeat and so in terms of projecting something, it was. We're in a war. We're in a battle. We're in a battle for survival. It's going to have an impact on

00:22:01.219 - 00:22:17.729

this entire industry. We can't afford to fail, and so we've got to marshal all of our resources and then after setting kind of the over just the overview of this thing, then we had to deliver and so Walsh was sent from here down there. Bill Bill

00:22:17.729 - 00:22:31.750

came out of Local 72. To coordinate their campaign, I think he was on some low salary, like a half a salary or something, because it was so little story he was an alcoholic and got rehabilitated and he came back here and we found something for him

00:22:31.750 - 00:22:52.910

to do. And so then we sent him down there and very cheap rate and uh and uh but. And he was mainly his job was mainly getting relief for this do anything else too. Then we had teams of members that go down on the weekends and

00:22:52.910 - 00:23:09.089

we had the rallies, I remember vividly and other things. had and we did it on a regular basis, almost on the call of the local union just so that this thing didn't die. It continued and it captured the imagination of a lot of people because here

00:23:09.089 - 00:23:36.604

we were younger obviously today going back significantly younger, but you know. A good number of white guys from the Bay Area, you know, stereotypical teamsters down in the South Bay Area fighting mainly on behalf of Mexican, Mexican Mexican candy work. And food processors and that was

00:23:36.604 - 00:23:49.074

a unique thing and I don't think a lot of people thought that it was the Teamsters that you see something like that in the Teamsters and we got a tremendous amount of support from the AFL-CIO. We got a lot of support from college students and community

00:23:49.074 - 00:24:05.780

people. Uh, it was, it was phenomenal just the response that came to this, I think, and, and probably Lou summed it up right. I mean, I think Lou that that the way he described it is the way I think a lot of people saw that. Yeah,

00:24:05.900 - 00:24:17.180

I mean, what struck me is like he kept saying these folks who've like worked all their lives to get out of the fields, to stop following the crops and just to have it just sort of taken away just at the moment when they finally settle down

00:24:17.180 - 00:24:32.739

and raise their kids like in a normal family situation. Yeah, you get it on the head, you get it on the head. I actually, you know, I'm about out of questions for now, and you did address the thing I had the biggest curiosity about because I

00:24:32.739 - 00:24:48.540

had no idea. I had a feeling there were a lot of strings being pulled behind the scenes and that it wasn't all that possible to discuss it publicly at the time, you know, but that was, that was the thing that was when all was said and

00:24:48.540 - 00:25:06.619

done, all of the picketing and all of the sacrifice and the heartbreak if We had known that before and had realized that we didn't really dawn on this until the whole thing could have been prevented. It might have been prevented that. Well, the story is always

00:25:06.619 - 00:25:22.910

know where your pension funds are. Yeah, pension funds and general funds. You had a bank account with Wells Fargo. We didn't hear, but a lot of teachers did. So you weren't just talking about the several billion pensions. You were talking about a lot of other money

00:25:22.910 - 00:25:41.459

here's something you might not know something about, but I was actually looking over the coverage that we ran late in the strike. In unity and there were comments about this kind of game that Wells Fargo was playing with the local growers that part of the reason

00:25:41.459 - 00:25:52.260

that they were prolonging the strike is they hoped to sort of put the growers in a situation where they would, you know, have to sell their land and Wells Fargo would sort of then be able to sell it back to real estate developers and they could

00:25:52.260 - 00:26:04.579

kill them. Do you know anything about that where that information might have come from. I have to find whoever it was who wrote that article and say, I mean it sounds especially in light of what eventually happened. I gather there's been a lot of that. There's

00:26:04.579 - 00:26:21.239

a lot less farming in that area. And I mean I haven't been back to Washington. The economy comes back, it'll probably become more because it's probably one of the most desirable areas to live in the country outside of the fact that from the earthquake standpoint it's

00:26:21.239 - 00:26:40.619

record, but in terms of geographical area, in terms of climate, just a great area. There's still a lot of strawberry farming there. That's the main thing that broccoli and all the stuff that they put in there the whole area's still it's changed dramatically. Now one thing

00:26:40.619 - 00:26:56.979

that Santos told me that actually is that Shavelo Moreno actually went down to Mexico and looked at some of those plants down there, some of those runaway shops where they ran away to. Oh, Sergio Jesus, they had this whole report done in fact I think they

00:26:56.979 - 00:27:14.270

did a video on it. Economic degradation from the plants and how they operated is this the one that they can put together? I'll have to, yeah, I just talked to him actually, you know, he was up in Portland, you know, speaking at the. You know this

00:27:14.270 - 00:27:29.310

summit town hall on the economic crisis, we had about 800 people at that and he gave a very eloquent, you know, low key speech, you know, I think it got people's attention more than all the shouters did. Yeah, well, he's done a lot of really good

00:27:29.310 - 00:27:45.589

work on the global labor market stuff and it's complicated and it's really easy, I think, to get. To get off the track that you're talking about, he really, he really has done a tremendous amount of work. He really has done a great job there. I Oh,

00:27:45.599 - 00:27:57.260

look up this movie, you know, I mean, if you get a hold of Sergio, Sergio will have it, OK, because he came back, I think we showed it a couple of times. He came back and this is what they're doing in Mexico and it's how they

00:27:57.260 - 00:28:17.310

do the crops. So it kind of was contamination of crops. That's what it was. Oh Jesus, he retired fairly recently. Sergio retired probably 10 years ago. Yeah, late, late 90s, and he's just living in Watsonville. Yeah, as far as I know he's right yeah. I mean

00:28:17.310 - 00:28:35.430

I would imagine once NAFTA went through it was kind of Discouraging. They had a tough time, Michael. They still have a job loss. Food processors closed. I've only got about 1 or 21 or 2 left. Yeah, there still are some. Are there any like in the

00:28:35.430 - 00:28:54.089

Salinas area or an auction or get the salad plans that the Salinas has has changed a lot too. I mean, somebody say Selena's 90, the sister of a very local that they're adjacent to. It's changed too with fuel crops and stuff that's changed dramatically. A lot

00:28:54.089 - 00:29:07.040

of stuff that used to be grown here, they moved down to Sinaloa, right? Yeah, they've moved there, but they still they still grow a significant amount. It's just that the whole way it's done has changed. They can't get anybody to work it, so they get all

00:29:07.040 - 00:29:22.300

these labor contractors now because the Dole and even Dole and the rest of them want to distance themselves from the works because the workers generally are legal immigrants and they don't want to be if they get caught. They're not responsible. It's Chuck Mac, labor broker that

00:29:22.300 - 00:29:38.140

did it and it's over from the use of illegal immigrants that becomes an issue. I don't remember the immigration issue ever coming up during that strike. I mean there had to be some people who would, you know, at a time when nobody really cared, you know,

00:29:38.300 - 00:30:05.089

came across and stayed and didn't go through. I mean most of those folks were actually Mexican nationals and not, you know, Mexican American came from Texas and I remember stories there about them coming back, but it was a question from our standpoint that wasn't even. didn't

00:30:05.089 - 00:30:21.069

care about their status. They were numbers. Nobody brought it up. Nobody brought it up to show how much the political climate in this country of NAFTA is really what made it an issue. Just because it, it made it impossible to earn a living in Mexico, you

00:30:21.069 - 00:30:40.420

know, so. Tons more people are coming out not just to follow the harvest or anything, um. Well, That's this has been tremendously helpful and if that's a decent. Do you have a card by chance? I do. Oh good, give me a card, but I'll give you

00:30:40.420 - 00:31:03.119

mine. I could be a wealth of material for you. I'm up in Portland. He was close to this came down to talk to you and to deliver the family car to my younger son who needs one can't afford to buy one in this economy, so. I'll

00:31:03.119 - 00:31:19.979

give you an address and a couple of phone numbers in Portland. Actually, we would probably move back down here if we could afford. This is something my old man used to talk about and I, now I wish I'd paid more attention to him when he talked

00:31:19.979 - 00:31:51.270

about the 30s. I don't think I ever thought I'd see this bad. That's OK, you know, if I think of anything else you'll be around. Well, no, just call you got anything else, Peter, just call and I'll try to hook up. Um You and Alex, because

00:31:51.270 - 00:32:06.189

I think you to be in town. How long are you going to be flying back Wednesday Wednesday night and the second number there is my cell. I'm reachable here. OK, so if you can locate him before, you know, tomorrow or Wednesday. OK, let me I have

00:32:06.189 - 00:32:37.760

a car you know I may. to go down to Watsonville if I can reach Santos and set something up here I mean. I'm sure I'm gonna be coming back if I stick with this thing. Because I'm writing about the strike which I was actually, you know,

00:32:38.079 - 00:33:03.790

involved around the fringes that I wrote a couple of articles about what's going on. Let me do something. Let me put that. Yeah. I was We I'm writing about the Washington strike which I was actually, you know, involved around the fringes of I wrote a couple

00:33:03.790 - 00:33:46.479

of articles about what's going on. Let me do something. Let me put it I think that's right. Yeah. I was seen all of the things almost from A to Z and all that stuff. Other than what triggered the strike. I was

00:33:46.479 - 00:34:09.000

involved in the thing almost from A to Z and all that stuff. Other than what triggered the strike, and I was not there when the decision to make to strike was made, uh, and was sort of sent there after the fact, the uh. And uh That

00:34:09.000 - 00:34:32.290

was on fire, so to speak. OK, it was, uh, it was a, um, it had a a quasi-revolutionary aspect of it and uh. And the whole place was in. There was a great concern within the teams this organization is that, hey, what the hell is going

00:34:32.290 - 00:34:56.418

on out there, you know, I mean we had a right in the streets there. some bad press on it and uh so. I had just gone back to work for the teamsters for less than for about. Half a year, huh, less than that. I had, uh,

00:34:56.618 - 00:35:15.699

I worked for them for 12 years and, and, uh, and quit. I was burned down. One heavy assignment after another and uh so I I needed some R&R and I went back and got a job at a truck truck. And worked as a truck driver for

00:35:15.699 - 00:35:41.790

about 5 years. Kept in touch, you know, and uh stayed active, but uh. That was good and uh. And then this came another project came along. That uh I had always had an intense interest in, and that's the question of the Sure. United States the independent

00:35:41.790 - 00:36:11.270

contractor, so. with that, you know, they offered me the position of Director of And uh uh So I accepted that, but at the Although I've always felt that this is The problem was an international. And uh That it never really could be solved. basis even a

00:36:11.270 - 00:36:27.520

regional basis. When you were in national school, just out of curiosity, I mean, it's like, um, I've known a few guys, you know, on their own rigs and, you know, worked. Work their tails off to do it. Was actually trying to bring them into the union

00:36:27.520 - 00:36:52.939

at that point? Well, there are two things. I don't want to get too deep in a huge, huge thing in itself, and there are two major considerations that involve that. The first is the right to represent because prior to The change which my involvement created the

00:36:52.939 - 00:37:30.149

change, uh, the first problem was just the mere fact that you were representing. Right that you were interfering in the business processes between two business entities. The independent contractor as a business entity. get wiser wherefore. that in other words, We're precluded from secondary boycott activity. So

00:37:30.469 - 00:37:59.250

when you interfere between the business process of two business entities, you're committing secondary boycotts when you do. So we were able to establish on that case, a case a strike was triggered. Efforts And uh it was the ship. strike and it actually the the final the

00:37:59.250 - 00:38:23.850

MRV. a machine from Washington DC to deal with that effort, but Um Anyways, long and short of it is we won at the Supreme Court level, OK, um, actually, Judge Scalia, before he became a Supreme Court, uh, was the guy that ruled out. At the at

00:38:23.850 - 00:38:46.870

the lower level in the DC Circuit Court and So we were able to get good penetration on the law that part, but the second one still remains and has never been addressed and this happened in the early 80s, didn't. I remember there was a strike I

00:38:46.870 - 00:39:08.750

think during Reagan's first term of independence. I said, there was a strike was not a huge number of people, but it was a big, big activity. I shut down the freeway, yeah, yeah, I remember that you were involved in that. He might say that all the

00:39:08.750 - 00:39:34.120

way. That was almost 30 years ago I don't. I was always kind of bothered by the fact that they pulled me out of it after a while I juggle. And you know it's not one that you could not that you could. Not pay 100% attention to.

00:39:35.419 - 00:39:56.080

So it's uh anyway, but just the second part of it is is uh is the question of antitrust price fixing they haven't dealt with that one yet so one half of it's been taken care of. The second half is someday someone will deal with that one

00:39:56.080 - 00:40:17.739

because it was never the intent argument in the first one was it was never the intent of Congress to recognize. An individual that worked as a as an independent contractor. To be recognized as an employer, I mean, he employs no one other than himself, OK, so

00:40:17.739 - 00:40:32.179

it was never the intent of Congress and, and that was that, that's a synopsis of the argument, but it prevailed, you know, and, uh, and the same argument could be used on the, but for some reason or other labor has never really, well, I know one

00:40:32.179 - 00:41:05.959

of the reasons. I mean Unions have an antitrust immunity. As long as they bargain for wages and hours and conditions. They cannot drift off of that if they drift off of that and start getting into a secondary boycott situation by By price fixing. They they cease

00:41:05.959 - 00:41:25.530

to exist. OK, so, uh, it's very precarious, you know, it's very precarious, and, uh, to Chuck's, to Chuck's great credit, he was willing to take it on, you know, very few are, you are, nobody has been since we set an unfinished job, so to speak. anyway,

00:41:26.300 - 00:41:47.090

during this time frame, I was working for the for the team and this situation in Watsonville. It's been like September of 85, so that was that's when they walked out by that time it was probably I would say the fall or early fall and uh. So

00:41:47.090 - 00:42:01.250

Chuck told me, you know, he said we're gonna ask him. It was his big wick, you know, so, so he didn't have to get, he says, no, nobody keeps, he's not getting a straight scoop from anybody over there. What he wanted me to do was to

00:42:01.250 - 00:42:24.159

go there and, uh, and prepare a report for the international. Uh, as to what was taking place there and was that a A winnable situation or or we just Uh, puts them in the wind, so to speak. Um, so I did. I went down there and

00:42:24.159 - 00:42:54.219

I spent uh. I don't know, about 3 or 4 days actually. And um Uh, immediately. He got into a confrontation with Dick King, who was the secretary treasurer. And um I think a lot of people did. Well, yeah, I, I don't want. Excessively, the guy was

00:42:54.219 - 00:43:13.110

an alcoholic and that was part of the problem. I mean, he spent Most of the greater part of the day drinking in this day, you know, that's, that's the way the canneries evolved, OK, the unionization of the canneries evolved and you had, uh, it was almost

00:43:13.110 - 00:43:46.100

like a patroon syndrome that existed. And uh And The unions once everything got settled, the unions were The leadership had relationships with the with the owners of the can mostly independently owned companies. And such was the case in Waho. Now, I developed a report, uh, it

00:43:46.100 - 00:44:10.889

was a very shaking report, if I remember correctly. Uh, you know, somewhere. All those papers still exist, you know, since 70, I had, I had boxes and boxes. They probably just got through shit canning a lot of this stuff. Of papers including there were so many

00:44:10.889 - 00:44:30.510

different things I, I ended up doing for them, so many different efforts, OK, but my habit was to just, you know, and just box the stuff and uh and they had a large uh And, and, uh, and Attics Our base there a lot of stuff ended

00:44:30.510 - 00:44:50.030

up over there so I don't know what they transferred over or they then, but I'll tell you what though, um, Joint Council 7 ended up inherington. The situation Because I worked out of joint for that effort. I worked out of the Joint Council 7. Now I

00:44:50.030 - 00:45:07.810

want to break in for one second. OK, go ahead. I was under the impression that the cannery locals were not under the jurisdiction of Joint Council 7. We're not, but uh they had uh they had a cannery component actually at one time in Oakland and Hayward,

00:45:07.899 - 00:45:31.050

there were several cannery there were several canneries and so they had the cannery council which they paid per capita to and were part of, but yeah, it was mostly joint council 38 that had the canneries, which is the the Sacramento Valley local unions. And But this

00:45:31.050 - 00:45:45.580

was a joint Council set effort, and my impression was that mainly it happened because Joint Council 7 pretty much took it on itself to do some support work and you were involved in a lot of the, you know, the food drives and so forth. Uh you

00:45:45.580 - 00:46:06.520

and Bill Walsh, Bill Walsh, Bill Walsh, uh, uh, came out of that. He had a different. was uh I was gonna get into that later because he came into it later. His role was a support role, which is very good. I love them. Yeah he passed

00:46:06.520 - 00:46:26.060

away. His son's still a teamster local 7. They moved to Reading. And uh and he passed away over there at uh. Uh, after several years of retirement. Chuck was suggesting I might want to talk to his widow Chuck was suggesting I might want to talk to

00:46:26.060 - 00:46:45.479

his widow his widow Dean was actually would be a good one to talk to actually yes because she was working for the local union at the time clerk. And that's how they became a pair. She was working for uh 70. She was working for 70 she

00:46:45.479 - 00:47:10.189

worked for May 12 for 1212. Really? See, actually they ended up moving there. A motel Bill's got a real colorful background and history, you know, but he's one sweetheart of a guy. Really well intentioned that I never heard anybody down there say anything bad about it.

00:47:13.679 - 00:47:35.649

I had this I laughed when I first heard his name because I just immediately thought I was a 4. Well, well, gee, I didn't realize it. So I got back to the report, you know, just to try to chronological sequence. And uh you know, I gave

00:47:35.649 - 00:47:56.080

a check and that went on to the general president's desk, you know and uh. Uh, so after that, you don't have a copy of the report. You know, there's no telling what no I probably don't because uh. Because I thought that was the union's stuff and

00:47:56.080 - 00:48:17.800

I didn't, uh, I have, I have probably um. 30 boxes of different papers here. In this house And then you know tell them. The important thing to find is, you know, you know, because it does exist. And it's probably in this building someplace. It's my calendar

00:48:17.800 - 00:48:39.010

book from that time frame. Because I would give it all, you know, there was. This, this strike, there were two strikes actually, not just one canning. There was short frozen foods. So my report dealt with both of them, but primary focus on Wa you, I mean,

00:48:39.330 - 00:49:04.399

there's an equal number of people in both places. 1000 people too. Do you remember? Can you summarize briefly what you put into that report? Well, You know, I, I was very blunt in my uh evaluation of the King's work. Uh And uh or failure to, to

00:49:04.399 - 00:49:31.030

work. And uh And that There was an absolute lack of control. Beha patterns and the rest of it that was happening. Uh, over there and uh And also an indicated probably I'm just not sure about that one. I'm sure Frozen foods that uh. I always felt

00:49:31.030 - 00:49:51.219

after, you know, a few days over there that uh That that was a strike that should never happen. Because all it did was, uh was benefit Watson Loan. You're talking about Richard Shaw, Richard Shaw, absolutely, yes, he wasn't care. Well, Kenny was went off on so

00:49:51.219 - 00:50:23.419

far and uh. Uh, can you explain that a little? How it benefited Watsonville County. How it benefit, yeah, well, they're competitors, so. And you have an employer on strike. You want his competitors to continue to work. Because You know, it places the the All the, all

00:50:23.419 - 00:50:45.290

the uh encomferences that are caused by a strike. Really impede the company from a successful operation that his competitors are fucking functionally unimpeded by it it gives the advantage to the employer and places a burden. I mean, I understand, you know, what I, what I was

00:50:45.290 - 00:51:00.729

curious about is how it happened. They did go. My impression was that Shaw and Mark Conso pretty much approached the union as a united front. They had a common, no, they all hated each other. They hated each other. These are, these are a lot of misconceptions

00:51:00.729 - 00:51:26.540

over there, but I grew to know Big Shaw very well because We formed a buy America organization over there. Uh, and I served on the board of directors and he was the president of, of the um of the uh. And uh it became a fairly activist

00:51:26.540 - 00:51:47.149

group, but this is, this is a long time after the, this is during the NAFTA pardon me, this is during the struggle over NAFTA in the early 90s. Well, I think it preceded it. It was right around that time actually. NAFTA came into being in Clinton's

00:51:47.149 - 00:52:10.969

term. I mean, yeah, Bill Clinton's term and uh. His baby was Bush's dad and Bush won uh but but Fulton signed it. He he actually believed in it. In the case now that he's not, doesn't support a lot of it, but uh yeah, uh but. The

00:52:10.969 - 00:52:26.330

Shaw strike was very interesting. The settlement was very interesting, when I evaluated and some of it in my report and some of it is not, otherwise I'd had to write a book for the report, you, you know, because when I went there, I met with the

00:52:26.330 - 00:52:50.760

officials that were. Dick So waste of time. OK. Well, he was in charge, OK, and he's the guy that pulled the trigger. But it was Sergio Lopez. Uh, later became the number one guy. I know. I'm from the strike and actually when you were talking about

00:52:50.760 - 00:53:02.719

we were talking about NAFTA, I was remembering a speech I heard him make in '93 for a bunch of, you know, it was one of those justice with janitors' meetings, I guess they were trying to rally the these immigrant, you know, the guys who clean the

00:53:02.719 - 00:53:19.159

offices in San Jose, they were trying to rally them against NAFTA and they brought Carinists up from Mexico. And Sergio just stole the show. I mean, these guys were, you know, he, he had a very sophisticated, very radical sounding take on NAFTA, and he really appealed

00:53:19.159 - 00:53:43.719

to Sergio always believed that, you know, and he was close to that, but I believe that we needed to. To, uh, that the teachers actually needed to go and um and unionized Mexico. He had a strong relationship with uh some of the unions in Mexico. and

00:53:43.719 - 00:54:05.679

uh In the same line of work. But there, there had been many like in the strawberry industry uh uh attempted to move everything to Mexico shift. And they failed, you know, so there, there are a lot of problems in Mexico. Uh, there's some serious challenges there.

00:54:06.570 - 00:54:36.850

Uh in Mexico. But anyway, yeah, we On the show frozen food is interesting because One of the Settlement position that we came to with the company. The company said he couldn't settle. OK. We were meeting with actually the son, Steve Shaw. And uh and we formed.

00:54:38.580 - 00:54:58.330

A 12 12-man committee. Which I've never been in favor of big committees because you get too much grandstanding goes on but uh uh but in this case it functioned very well. It was just the the strikers committee, the striker committee that what was that was Chevello

00:54:58.330 - 00:55:20.649

and Gloria Betancourt and uh they were not they were not, uh, those were, um, those were from Watsonville planning. These were swiftly short people, yeah, there was conflict between the two, you know. Sure, yeah, they were there was a really strong component. In the local union

00:55:20.649 - 00:55:49.030

that was opposed to Any settlement that shoppers. And there was a. There was a real diehard, uh, actually we call them the Erichist group. what it was like, but. Uh, we're probably jumping. We opened a little office in, uh, well, the local had an office in

00:55:49.030 - 00:56:11.639

Santa Cruz besides the one in Lawsonville. That's part of their jurisdiction Santa Cruz, and, uh, and I use that office there. And because it was impossible to try to do any work, not only that. I was intrusive and um there was a strong resentment to my

00:56:11.639 - 00:56:37.979

presence, not by the rank and file, but by the. They, uh, primarily to kill. And uh so they had that little building in Santa Cruz and I worked out of there. And um You but the, the key to to the To the set of the first

00:56:37.979 - 00:57:04.040

was that I'll tell you recall the details there was a clause in it I think that there was a clause in it that was to try to determine. There was any validity to the company's position. The company's position was that Look, they ain't going to make

00:57:04.040 - 00:57:33.040

it anyway. OK, doomsday is approaching. Their wages are considerably in excess of what. The product can be produced for And in Mexico packaged them for Mexico and uh So we put together a fact finding committee. And uh and held a two-day fact finding. Uh, at the

00:57:33.040 - 00:58:01.260

plant because we had to go through all of the company's paperwork. They opened the books. Everything Uh, we have access to to every part of Of the company and uh who participated in the fact finding. There are 3 components. 23 components. There were 3 components to

00:58:01.260 - 00:58:25.419

the Watsonville boycott too, but the 3, there, there were 3 people actually in the fact finding committee. One of them was from the bishop's office. The bishop himself was named as the factfinder, but he appointed his, his senior accountant. As the uh as his fact-finding representative.

00:58:26.889 - 00:58:56.110

We have the from the Federal Mediation Conciliation Service. We flew in the uh the uh number 2 guy. The guy doesn't do any work. #2 guy from Washington DC down for the effort. And and the third one was myself. representing the. And um So we spent

00:58:56.110 - 00:59:11.449

a couple of days there. It was kind of curious because the strike was still on. And we had the prediction that there was no other physical location that we could use that we could keep getting the information that we needed, OK, so the three of us

00:59:11.449 - 00:59:33.800

decided we're gonna have to go into the plant, OK, and uh so. And all three of us actually didn't like the idea of uh of going across a ban on so. Uh, we met with the, with the striker group, and they said, well, they have a

00:59:33.800 - 00:59:56.959

problem with it than we did, OK, but we insisted that they. Sort of uh remove the pickets. OK, when we went in, they actually kept them all. in there, you know, look, after a month on strike, you know, picking has become more symbolic than anything else.

00:59:59.219 - 01:00:19.729

Um You know, I hate to say this, but they're not that effective. But the so we went in. And uh I had met uh Uh, Bick Shaw's two sons prior to that because those, that's who we've been meeting with. We had 3 sons actually. I never

01:00:19.729 - 01:00:48.239

did meet the 3rd 1, but Steve Shaw was the spokesperson for the company. Bruce Shaw was was involved too, but only in the periphery. And So after 2 days of it, you know, you could tell, you know, there was uh the way things were going. We,

01:00:48.679 - 01:01:08.350

we bring You know, striker representatives in, you know, into the actual discussions, you know, we met with them. I did mostly, you know, and the union officials. You got to remember now all this time Dick Shaw was not, I mean Dick King was not very keen

01:01:08.350 - 01:01:31.830

on my effort, you know, so we're actually. I mean, he stepped down in November of '85, right nominations occurred. That's where that happened. He was still in charge and he sat in on a couple of them. negotiating sessions and I remember one of them specifically, uh,

01:01:32.280 - 01:01:57.620

the president, the guy that later became the president and the two business agents there. I can't remember. that was the president with all he was was a chauffeur. That that's, yeah, Fred, yeah, yeah, he was, um, you know, he was. And the two business agents did

01:01:57.620 - 01:02:21.219

mostly work in the local one was Sergio Lopez, the other one was uh Leon Ellis. Who's present in Hawaii, Hawaii actually. I, I saw them they're here a few years ago, about 6 or 7 years ago. Spent a day together. Talk about old times and stuff.

01:02:22.570 - 01:02:40.889

OK. You know what, I remember one of the meetings that was there because he proceeded to insult. Well, Leon Alice Leon and spoke up about something. This guy turns around to him and tell him. What the fuck you know about this shit, you know, just a

01:02:40.889 - 01:03:03.770

business agency, you know, jeez, I couldn't believe, couldn't believe it worked with these guys for years. It must have been a thankless job, yeah, yeah, you know, there was a tremendous amount of energy, especially by by Sergio, you know, because what was going to happen. Do

01:03:03.770 - 01:03:40.739

you know, are you familiar with TDU, yeah, Princes for Democratic area? He's a real activist guy there, you know. Joe or you talking about? No, was really the primarily. Uh, but. Jose Lopez Lopez was just a loose, Joe, Joe who's in Milwaukee now, and he eventually

01:03:40.739 - 01:04:07.120

became a BA I believe I think he was in Milwaukee. I don't think he's there right now. He was He would go from one local union to. Where the TDU had penetration. And uh No, I, I knew Joe. I knew one and uh Joe was not

01:04:07.120 - 01:04:36.939

an official then. OK, but uh. The election was coming up. The guy who was the key guy was Armando Morales. OK. Uh, the key TDU got his brother actually, I think. He was a working foreman and uh and uh Then walks a little And one of

01:04:36.939 - 01:05:04.659

the leaders of the strike. And He actually got nominated to run against the King. OK, he was, he was the guy. He was the leader of the, of the, of the gang, you know, so to speak. And uh Intelligent. Casual, no nonsense, real family man. And

01:05:04.659 - 01:05:31.320

uh he's the guy that that I searched out when I first went there to make the report. OK. He took me from place to place to place to talk to the strikers. We talked to everybody including the Catholic priest Father O'Donnell said. Well, I never actually.

01:05:32.030 - 01:06:08.179

Uh, Hispanic. Yeah, I think it's a lot of the stuff that was very important part of it was was. She's very good at that. But anyway, the uh you when the nominations took place around the time that you're talking about, they always.

01:06:09.570 - 01:06:30.149

I like a He was nominated to to that. He told me he was gonna run and we talked about our life. We became friend, you know, on the line, you know, very sharp guy, and I thought that he would need it. Uh That he would have

01:06:30.149 - 01:06:58.620

been the best guy actually for for everybody that was around for and everybody else thought that I think Armando would have won easily. But uh Uh, he had great concerns and So we wanted to know. OK. What was it that he was going to inherit? And

01:06:59.840 - 01:07:26.280

He felt that That and incorrectly so probably, you know that uh. That the strike was doomed to failure. Without the support of the International Union, the joint council and And that he could tell. What had taken place thus far, you know. That They're going to continue

01:07:26.280 - 01:07:48.179

to fight the good fight, but Um Everything else was mounting up against them, you know, they were able to source the replacements way too easily, you know, importing scabs and uh one of the things that that I got from him. This guy, this guy was a

01:07:48.179 - 01:08:12.360

wealth of information and knowledge and uh. was that the company had prepared itself for the strike. Way ahead of time and that Uh, and he had mentioned this to the union and fell on deaf ears. that they were just building up their inventory. to a very,

01:08:12.439 - 01:08:36.439

very large scale way beyond. Inventory that they would keep on hand. They had they had sufficient inventory to carry them through for a long time. Um, and, uh, so anyway. The, uh, I mean, I think I, I mentioned him in the, uh, in my report, be

01:08:36.439 - 01:08:53.720

nice to get that piece of paper, you know, you follow the report in this would have been around September, October thereabouts somewhere in there. You mentioned you I'm trying to get the timeline down. I know there was a solidarity Day rally, I guess at the beginning

01:08:53.720 - 01:09:08.490

of October where things got a little out of hand. Well, there were a bunch of the one at the very beginning I guess was October 6th. And I remember there was a big brouhaha about who was going to get to speak and you know I think

01:09:08.490 - 01:09:29.939

it was after that rally that the The strikers committee formed this formal organization formed to kind of deal with stuff because it wasn't getting dealt with. Many aspects of it were formed, OK. They had formed the soccer committee. They had, uh. Also put together a Uh,

01:09:31.720 - 01:09:49.520

no. a media group. But uh their own newsletter which I thought was very good, yeah, I've seen a couple of copies of it there they're on file at the Labor History archives in San Francisco State. Yeah, some of this stuff, of course, like the report and

01:09:49.520 - 01:10:13.290

stuff, uh, you know, 912. They probably never got a copy of it, that's the way the international works. And um And what I stated in my report was, you know, that the pluses and the minus the process was, was, was what I considered. Wonderful solidarity of

01:10:13.290 - 01:10:38.049

the workers. Uh And I felt that the company would not be successful in its efforts to break that. And without being able to break that. That the strike was a real challenge to the company to win, OK. Professor in a community like. You've got to bring

01:10:38.049 - 01:11:04.979

people from outside. strike breakers you're not going to be able to source. typically what they do the strike a shit. The more sordid the people And they like it, you know, but once they When was for any shot. They courage all those guys that they hired

01:11:04.979 - 01:11:38.229

as. those guys don't some of them think they're they're gonna be there for a long time, but they're not the company doesn't mean them well ever so uh. back to that, the next major events that I particularly was involved in has to do with the pluses

01:11:38.229 - 01:11:53.660

and minuses were laying out the pluses and the minuses of the situation you laid out in your report solidarity workers. And that uh I might have, you know, mentioned that the, that the representation by the business agents was, was decent. Uh, but I know one of

01:11:53.660 - 01:12:19.350

the things I didn't put in there because I tossed around and I was of the opinion that for console. was an effort to Totally dominate the The Industry. Because he would have a competitive advantage, and he also knew that, I mean, it was obvious to me

01:12:22.370 - 01:12:42.810

that shorts and food was chemist was not. How long after the strike did they go out of business? Which was Sure, sure, yeah. Actually Sean got bought out. And I don't, I'm not totally retro on the history at all, but uh they got bought out and

01:12:42.810 - 01:13:05.229

they got involved with JJ Corsetti and uh. But in Mark Conant's case, he figured himself a big guy on the block. He inherited the company from his dad. and um Like I said, you know, I figured that if we could get shelters and settled. So You

01:13:05.229 - 01:13:34.080

know, a severe hardship on the more cons. For one thing would destroy his his plan. The And that day. There was a recommendation that was made by the by the Fact finding group. And um And that recommendation became the basis for the settlement of the shelters.

01:13:35.049 - 01:14:02.660

And then the ratification occurred at At I can't, can't remember the date. I've got it somewhere. I've got a little chron but we're talking about early January. Yeah, so let's see about life um. Sergio by then was in charge. Difference in the world, shows you a

01:14:02.660 - 01:14:36.819

great, great, you know, many ways and That the There were several efforts. So To destroy the ratification and incredible event. was a real chaotic scene. chaotic and they had there was a couple of people from the. In those days there was the Western Conference of was

01:14:36.819 - 01:15:09.589

in existence and they had a guy there. He was the director of division. He was there. Eddie Rodriguez was there. Eddie Rodriguez from his IBT red. Yeah And and a few others. And So the effort to disrupt, in my opinion. There's a, there's a reason for

01:15:09.589 - 01:15:29.490

the opinion though was that there were two groups that are involved, the internal group which was uh There was a lot of people got into the new. The ratification meaning they are not that are not members or employees of chauffeurs. We had a lot of people,

01:15:29.740 - 01:15:46.810

I mean it was you have to see. Whose best interests were served by destroying the meeting. First one was Watson volcanic. The best interest was served, and other than that there was uh. You know, it certainly wouldn't be the company show Frozen foods. They wanted to

01:15:46.810 - 01:16:08.209

sell, you know, in my opinion, they could not have survived the lengthy strike. And uh the uh See think again, you know, the group that we call the anarchist group, it was just incredible, you know, I mean, which we had people jumping on that. And uh

01:16:08.729 - 01:16:27.060

and uh. You know, disrupting things you think were you suggesting that consul actually sent people into that meeting? Oh yeah, yeah, what was the other group you mentioned? Well, there was a group, uh, you know, they were really not from shefield foods. They were from us

01:16:27.060 - 01:16:40.100

that were planning. I called like I said, the anarchist group, you know, they were just, they, you know, they wanted, you know, no settlement of any sort, you know, you know, we fight for the day. Some of them thought that basically it was being entertained. I

01:16:40.100 - 01:17:00.870

think they actually believed. You know, I mean, it's, uh, but you know, it's, uh, you always have that, so you know, we couldn't conduct a meeting, you know, I mean their efforts were to, to just totally disrupt. And so I convened. Uh, you know, a group

01:17:01.990 - 01:17:27.810

I think the 20 man committee plus plus a few others, and we came to the assertion that everybody to expel everybody that was not a shaw a food employee. And uh And When we announced that there was a lot of support for that because a lot

01:17:27.810 - 01:17:54.660

of it, you know, the guys, especially the guys at A lot of women workers in the group and we get pushed around. Uh, enough's enough, you know, yeah, you know, and, uh, so. There was some resistance at first you know to Expel and uh. One of,

01:17:54.740 - 01:18:13.390

I think eventually what we did was we evacuated the place and brought people back in only that were employees, but whatever it was, we got the. We got the job done and and finally we were able to uh uh to distribute the material for the uh

01:18:13.439 - 01:18:33.750

uh that was the basis of the settlement and uh and also uh. Conduct a meeting properly and then have a have a physical ratification that occurred and uh and it ratified. Was there any talk of the union not backing it up if they reject the settlement.

01:18:34.990 - 01:18:51.319

Was there any talk during the meeting that the Teamsters wouldn't be able to continue supporting the strike if the settlement was rejected? Of the rumors that was floating. No, not at that meeting. There was at the on the other set from the. Well it's a big

01:18:51.319 - 01:19:34.259

dispute over whether the problem but that's the issue. The most complex part was the profit sharing part was the profit sharing part. I had a profit sharing components. And But uh Actually it was there. I don't want to go there or not, you know,

01:19:34.390 - 01:20:00.379

but uh one of the uh. One of the key ingredients that uh that brought about Reconsideration by the Shaw family. was that we ran a make on To shell frozen foods and Uh, several makes that we got, you know, I got it done, done a rass

01:20:00.379 - 01:20:23.319

Street report and then a lot of other stuff in those days, you know, you couldn't Google up the shit. so there was talking to other people in the industry. And to find out more and more to just what the what the ownership breakdown of the company

01:20:23.319 - 01:20:50.399

was and turned out the. A chauffeur did not have a majority of their own. Actually the biggest stockholder. was a guy called David Rose Uh It flying ducks and stuff over here, OK, you know what I mean, because obviously, you know what I like, you know,

01:20:50.479 - 01:21:14.950

I mean it's uh. Uh, but Bailey Rose is an avid deer, OK, so. We got a little old penetration there and uh. And uh and then I had a private meeting with him and some of these private meetings should be left private you know so. Uh,

01:21:15.120 - 01:21:38.149

I prefer if you leave it out. It's He felt also, you know, I told him I said you guys can't survive. The protracted strike. So you guys can you guys just, he says, hey, David. He says, I was never in favor of of the strike, he

01:21:38.149 - 01:21:57.479

says, uh, we were still in negotiations, he says there was a, you know, Dick King was impossible to deal with. He wasn't David was not involved in the negotiations. I mean, we just took him. The background there was about 6 primary guys that were, but he

01:21:57.479 - 01:22:17.029

was, he was the biggest by far and uh. And he says that, you know, I couldn't believe it when when we got struck. Uh, and then the arguments revolved around as to whether or not. You know there was going to be mediation, not going to be

01:22:17.029 - 01:22:35.540

mediation, but it was going to be state mediation or federal mediation, and he says everything other than the than the subject matter. In the meantime, he says it's uh. You know, it became very iffy, you know, the future of the company. Here's what I'm confused about.

01:22:35.689 - 01:22:50.339

I mean, you were saying Drake shouldn't have happened. Shaw didn't want it to happen. Why did it happen? I mean, what, what aside from the fact that Dick King was just a difficult person. I mean there was this. There was a relationship between Dick King and

01:22:50.339 - 01:23:11.200

Mort counsel. So you think King was responsible for the I don't think he did it with if you would, you know, I think, I think, you know, these things happen, you know, and people. Don't have full capacity when they drink, get drunk all the goddamn time

01:23:11.200 - 01:23:35.189

and stuff, OK, and there was a lot of pressure from the from the workers from both, especially the Watsonville. To strike Shaw, they were on strike. Why wasn't Shaw on strike? OK, this is common, common. Uh Unions, you know, misery loves company. The workers don't often

01:23:35.189 - 01:24:10.470

understand that it's not in their best interest that all companies be struck, that if you can create a competitive. we're out there and it did take a cut and their settlement became the standard for the industry. That's correct. That's correct. And originally

01:24:10.470 - 01:24:35.870

I mean how much. You know, having been involved in negotiations with companies that pulled on big money, you know, and You know, one could not exactly be very proud of the short settlement or any of those settlements, you know. The day the cannery really good contracts

01:24:35.870 - 01:25:00.299

in the canneries has come and gone, unfortunately, you know, and there was a diminishing of the cannery companies, the ones that were having the absolutely toughest time of it. were the first. It's uh They were never a part of the of the Cany settlement if you

01:25:00.299 - 01:25:15.879

would, and the big players were in Watsonville and in Patterson, Patterson frozen foods. So I mean actually this is something I, I, I keep getting tempted to get off the track here but I think when I was talking to Chuck it was, you know, it occurred

01:25:15.879 - 01:25:29.930

to me the team about this stuff. Chuck does not know most of this stuff you know, no, you're, you're going way beyond what he could really he just relied on me to do what he did tell me was the story of how he was dealing with

01:25:29.930 - 01:25:45.399

Wells Fargo Bank, which I also want to I understand. But that was what he did have some firsthand knowledge about, I guess, because he was the guy who called up the big honcho at the bank and said, you know, we've got this big pension fund, we

01:25:45.399 - 01:26:04.229

can't very well justify it to our members if you're funding this, you know, this strike breaking effort. I guess paperwork and all that stuff that was all part of the strategy. There was again 33 components that's the Watson will boycott how that came about was, you

01:26:04.229 - 01:26:21.290

know. This is you gave me till 11. I'm just thinking we'll probably go on all day here. Uh, the strikes a lot of stuff, you know, I don't know and a lot of peculiar points, you know, like this David Rose and all this other stuff, you

01:26:21.290 - 01:26:43.859

know, it's uh. But having the shorts and foods, uh, uh, things settled even internally within our organization, what console you gonna remember now he's he's, is there, there's a, you know. The evil person in the group wants it, you know he qualifies. OK, he qualifies. He's

01:26:43.859 - 01:27:10.649

the demon. He had strong relationships within the teams union. And this guy was a party guy and he loved the The glamour and stuff like that, and I'll tell you something when we get into the lots of caring that that will. That's all beyond belief. It's

01:27:10.649 - 01:27:31.529

beyond belief. But anyways, here we are now, you mentioned how do we do? Well, one thing you did mention you mentioned an Arist group in Washington. Who, who, who were the people that you were referring to? Who are the people that, yeah, I mean, you mentioned

01:27:31.529 - 01:27:45.560

that there was an anarchist group in Washingtonville Canon. Who, which individuals, I mean anybody who was who turned up who had a public role on the strike at Watsonville Canon. I, I wouldn't call Joe Fahey an anarchist. I know he was, you know, wanting to withdraw.

01:27:46.600 - 01:28:03.890

Oh, I'm sorry, you were saying there was an anarchist group at Watsonville. Oh, OK, they were opposed to who were they? Really unknowns, you know, there was no real ownership amongst the group, but they had a group, you know, I don't recognize them for and there

01:28:03.890 - 01:28:21.540

was no, I don't think TDU was alone. They were destroyed the walls. These are individual workers, and they were it's really a question mark if they were workers or not because once we expelled everybody, they were gone. Well they were they around during the Washington can

01:28:23.450 - 01:28:39.549

well, there was, there were some guys that I don't know for a fact, you know, I I had no involvement. I mean they, you know, there was always, you know, threats of violence and you know I'm, I'm not. A guy in my position was the subject

01:28:39.549 - 01:28:58.500

to that, you know. You shake it off. There was an effort to torture the guy that was running. That had a reputation that was Lopez, Joe Lopez, I think you mentioned his name. Yeah, I don't know very much about him but that's what the local union

01:28:58.500 - 01:29:25.959

officials and stuff. I had no personal contact with the person, you know, so that's one of the reasons why. I didn't have my office in Watsonville. It was we couldn't get any work done. Yeah. And there's Involved when you put one of these major efforts together.

01:29:26.959 - 01:29:50.819

Especially when you have to do most of it yourself. Well, so anyway, but how do we, you know, the thing goes from, from Shaw to to continuity. Now Watanning is isolated by so, so now it's more. the company's efforts and Better target. So did you have

01:29:50.819 - 01:30:09.060

any sense that there was some demoralization setting in among the strikers after the settlement? They were You know, Their committee was good. They, you know, they propped each other up, you know, they had a lot of little things. There was the religious aspect of it, uh,

01:30:09.180 - 01:30:28.509

and, and that that was a contributed not as much as in the basic strike. Religion was actually played played a substantial role, you know. I'm not a religious person, but you know that's, that helped quite a bit, and that's a different strike and a different story

01:30:28.509 - 01:30:52.520

but it was a long time and it's the church was a. The ponder there was supportive of the strikers. All he wanted really was the thing to saddle. And so his congregation could get back at all that um. Who was good friends with him was the

01:30:52.520 - 01:31:11.479

fellow I mentioned earlier. Oh he was a, you know, we, we, we hopscotched about Armando was nominated to, to run for the top position, but he never, he withdrew his nomination. He didn't think the strike could win. I believe he told me there was, there was.

01:31:12.180 - 01:31:43.689

He was concerned, OK. He said he himself. was not a TDU person. He understood that. John And Um But he also understood that that In the international level, everybody was going to be labeled TDU period, you know, that, and he felt that. That if the election

01:31:44.640 - 01:32:12.720

OK, for from. From a perception standpoint with the international that Uh, that it would have been bad, OK, and by then. Sergio and Leon finally had agreed to run for the two top positions in the local union, OK, with Sergio being the leader, and so the

01:32:12.720 - 01:32:38.720

nominations pitted. Morales against Sergio. And my point to Armando was that You know, you're a great guy. I personally No can find no fault for you being the guy, OK, right, I said, but, uh, Sergio is also a great guy, you know, and he's got the

01:32:38.720 - 01:33:00.540

background and experience and Organizational acceptability, OK. And I hate to hate to say that, but you know that's the reality, you know, and um. There was a second consideration on his part. He was very, uh, both he and his wife, I met his wife also a

01:33:00.540 - 01:33:25.870

lovely lady. And they had two daughters. And they had both become very concerned about The drug culture and the problems of raising kids in Watsonville, OK. And he owned a couple 3 houses or something, and he also owned a rancher in Mexico. And they were making

01:33:26.540 - 01:33:41.709

They were thinking about moving back to Mexico. And that was that factored in into his decision. Is he still in Watsonville? Is he still in? I don't think so. I think it's in Mexico. Did you see how clearly Be court was his sister? Was that what

01:33:41.709 - 01:34:07.879

you told me? Gloria, yeah, she wants, I think she wants or is everybody's. Yeah That uh she was pretty young back then actually as I recall no Gloria was Gloria. I saw her a bit quite a bit yeah she's a real activist, you know. Uh uh

01:34:08.799 - 01:34:32.560

And I said a lot of the ladies she was probably As well as anybody, you know, but, uh, but she was good she was good, uh. I can't remember some of the but There were some very Very good river there. There was the woman whose son

01:34:32.560 - 01:34:52.649

is running local 912 now, I guess, Lydia Lama. Santo Santos Lerma is running now. His mother was one of them was one of the Norma, Norma was there. She, she was actually working for for a person, I think. And the one was one of the strikers

01:34:52.649 - 01:35:20.629

and uh yeah, she's she's super qualified, good woman. And uh yeah, she was actually, I think, in charge of the food program, which was very successful. The And that was Bill Walsh's function was, was the support function. Everything from getting people out of jail to to

01:35:21.000 - 01:35:35.359

to making sure that we had food to distribute, which was a big, big thing, you know, and that's great because I mean, so much about the whole legal defense aspect of it I mean we were all involved and I know there are a lot of people

01:35:35.359 - 01:35:55.479

who just. I heard stories about people being busted on their front porches that they lived near the plant and something was going on in front of the plant, that kind of thing. I mean, did you? Were you involved with that that would be more of the

01:35:55.479 - 01:36:06.359

in the background actually when you know we were jumping around again you know I'm not trying to go back this important thing on the strike was, you know. And now it strike and it reaches a certain part. And for all intents and purposes you've been replaced

01:36:06.359 - 01:36:30.009

with the law. in a community like Watson ago the way was OK in the police force. Was It was Well, one of the things that was important to try to get the police force turned around. But uh you're, you're uh Yeah yeah. You're up against it

01:36:30.009 - 01:36:55.740

big time. It's very hard, very hard to prevail. Yeah in this country are very poor. whenever you watch his speech was great. He is so good. He is so good. I am so upbeat. And so right now, not just for labor but because. Countries turn to

01:36:55.740 - 01:37:14.129

shack in so many ways, you know. That's you know you have a couple of drinks and talk about that one but back to this part here. How the boycott came to be. You know what, before you get into that, uh, this is the area where Chuck

01:37:14.129 - 01:37:29.890

said I had to talk to you. It had to do with the recertification vote. He said that you were the guy who basically came up with that idea of. A representation election before the 12 months were up. Can you tell me about that? OK, well how

01:37:29.890 - 01:37:52.930

you came up with the idea. That's that's part. Of the whole thing, OK, you know, but it's a there's an interesting part of how, how it came to be, OK. I had been advocating for a boy of the company because I felt that, you know. The

01:37:52.930 - 01:38:13.250

local could not but needed to P A lot more political, a lot more pressure on the company than it was doing on a picket line that because that was really more symbolic. We're keeping not unionized trucks and stuff, but most of the trucks that we're. union

01:38:13.250 - 01:38:41.180

anyway, they were, you know, the the pressure of the picket line was not that was not that, you know, that much that great so. At that time, the teamsters were having a convention. OK, um. We felt that Well, everybody working with you. The hierarchy of the.

01:38:42.029 - 01:39:01.569

Really had no confidence in What I had put together, you know, I mean they're not willing to commit resources. To do that, what they say figured was a, was a failed offer, OK. Now I have a short saddle, OK, so their exposure is cut in half.

01:39:02.040 - 01:39:26.359

The exposure meaning strike benefits and costs. The biggest cost of a strike is always strike. And um The uh so. We figured, well, how are we gonna do this? Well, it was kind of a last minute thing. There was background support. For the strike, OK, but

01:39:26.359 - 01:39:56.149

how do we convert that into Forthright support. And the last word. I crafted a resolution. To be presented To the uh on the floor of the convention. Under resolutions, OK, and, and you know, I know how this all works. many times that you can't get past

01:39:56.520 - 01:40:21.160

the people in charge. So the guy that was heading up the resolution committee, his name was John Blake. Um He had I don't want to give you all the details so that, but he had committed that if you get it up to having time. OK, he'll

01:40:21.160 - 01:40:45.459

uh get it past the committee. Let it be right on the floor. I, I know. If that can be accomplished, it passes unanimously. Right, so, uh. Because what you're doing is you're blindsiding. Well, how did you get him on board? He was a boy, OK, you

01:40:45.459 - 01:41:10.569

know. And uh So he did that. And the resolution was adopted. He was sympathetic to the resolution. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh no, no, yeah, yeah, I don't want to, you know, it was a capricious decision. OK, but, and it did, it went just exactly bang bang.

01:41:11.700 - 01:41:47.220

Oh I think I had the resolution handed over to him. The day before or the day itself, OK, that's how quick it all happened, OK. Uh Arnie winmaster. Who was the Director of the Western Conference of Teamsters. I assure you was righteously pissed off OK. OK,

01:41:47.660 - 01:42:13.589

and uh and the rest of them were just befuddled, OK. But I mean very skillfully, uh, I mean when I say he was righteously out, I mean, I knew that for know that for a fact. He didn't want the position to go through, no, no. you

01:42:13.589 - 01:42:41.109

didn't know anything about it. I didn't know anything about it. I don't know there was going to be a revolution and. Uh, but Very clever this part, OK, you know. Instead of making a huge to do about it over there. He The bracelet So, you know,

01:42:41.310 - 01:43:02.259

didn't let on that he didn't know. OK, you know, that, yeah, that's a good thing, you know, and now so he, you know, part of the effort, you know. of his prerogative. OK, so now he's got this thing. OK, now Arnie for some reason or other.

01:43:03.180 - 01:43:19.220

Like me, he always tried to hire me. I wouldn't go to work for. I never wanted to work for any of these guys. I worked for Chuck and that's. When I was there and I was. On the payroll, actually, my payroll was being paid by the

01:43:19.220 - 01:43:48.770

IBT at that point already. Uh I don't know if I have any time. In relation to the strike, I don't think so, but uh the uh What he did, what Arnie did is he took John Blake. Who in his mind was the culprit. Um A couple

01:43:48.770 - 01:44:18.200

of others He convened a meeting. And uh And uh Malia. And uh At that meeting with Chuck Mark myself. Uh, him and he was number one guy and Blake. And uh So he basically questioned me mostly on the and he says. Do you think you can

01:44:18.200 - 01:44:42.689

win that? This is yeah. Really Uh I think we, it's gonna be really tough. Uh but uh. The workers are there and that's that's the key. And you don't have the workers. I said, but what we need to do, we need to mount, he says, you

01:44:42.689 - 01:45:02.680

know, he says, this boycott stuff, you know. He says that just makes, that's just farm worker stuff you know and uh I toldma says the plan is, it's a three-point plan. I don't know if I already had the crafted the plan to get probably did probably

01:45:02.680 - 01:45:40.770

had in writing to hand to him. And uh so the targets. The company uh Our customer base. Targets the company. Uh, product source. That it targets the company's finances. And he liked it. Yeah, no, he says well that's different. You know, I, yeah, it's so it's

01:45:40.770 - 01:46:00.740

not no the wala wa. Yeah this is not a la la. And um this is the stuff that he knew me because I had lectured at the The joint counsel. He is the president of the Joint Council in Washington, not Washington DC, Washington state, and uh.

01:46:01.700 - 01:46:21.359

And I had, uh, I was a guest speaker a few times there and they have their joint council. They come from all over the state meet in Seattle. Uh, I'd give a talk. He knew me, you know, from that while he's gottenvi. So Uh, he says,

01:46:21.450 - 01:46:49.060

well, He says, here's, here's who you've got. You know, you got Blake, Blake was there. Because he was, he was in on his payroll. And uh so you got Blake, Blake's gonna bring aboard a guy. You got Eddie Rodriguez, full time. And he says you've got

01:46:49.060 - 01:47:13.669

Vincemoist. Part time on an as needed basis I says Vince has got. Full time assignment right now, I was his last name Vince Salo. Is all right. But I said I appreciate it, you know, but you know. Uh, and you know there's not much room for

01:47:13.669 - 01:47:30.720

argument with these guys, you know, they tell you what it is, that's what you got, you know, so. Uh, but I like Vince. I've worked together with Vince a lot. I knew everybody there. Including Blake, but I didn't know who Blake was going to bring aboard

01:47:31.319 - 01:47:54.939

as it turned out, the guy that Blake brought aboard was the guy that Worked for him in Arizona. And his name was and he was a Western Conference rep also, later, later became an IBT rep. Uh, his name was JC Lenr. JC J C L L

01:47:54.939 - 01:48:18.419

E N D V A I. And there were he was assigned to the Suicide So we, you know, developed after we met, you know, after that meeting stuff, those of us that had the assignment that And I had asked for permission to be able to use

01:48:18.419 - 01:48:38.470

the joint which I already had started using the joint Council and 7 offices and uh. Uh, you know, and there were some understandings, budgetary understandings and stuff like that, you know. And I was the lowest paid guy in the group. Even though I was a judge,

01:48:39.419 - 01:49:05.819

you know, by far, so. Anyway, that's, that's how. Our gang got put together, you know, and Because of that resolution, you know, it gave, uh, there are several key things in that story as you progress along, once you've got the worker. Worker, you ain't nothing. You've

01:49:05.819 - 01:49:35.080

got the worker. But short frozen foods was critical. To to any settlement that you're going to and and as you are very actively said, they, they established the pattern. And One of the things that I missed actually, I met I felt that. Where we settled Sharps

01:49:35.080 - 01:50:01.689

and furs. That the pressure on more council would be such that where he would have to settle. And it almost happened, OK. Uh, he called me up. Consul. Yeah, of course I'd already met him, he knew who I was. And uh but I'm always friendly and

01:50:01.689 - 01:50:19.660

congenial, you know, I just, even I, I despise the person, you know, I don't, I don't get personal on the shit. So they do, they get very personal social no purpose for me, you know, just a personal luxury event, you know, so. Uh, he wanted to

01:50:19.660 - 01:50:55.509

be. I said, well, Sounds good to me. And So we met uh in a Restaurants in Monterey, we said I think it was. I'm not sure uh uh. Congratulated, you know, so. He laughs. He says, Under difficult circumstances I hear. asshole. I wasn't that bad. I

01:50:55.509 - 01:51:05.379

guess to see the smirk on his face when he said that. I I remember this one guy who lived in Natos that was his right hand guy. He was not the president of the company. The president of the company was a guy called Ron because he

01:51:05.379 - 01:51:30.240

had an involvement on here, you know, so we said, you know, it was just a chit chat and stuff, you know. And he wanted to know if, you know. If we were and so the. I says, yeah, we are here. Yeah, we always have been. So

01:51:30.240 - 01:51:52.339

it was just uh we had a we had a we had a few drinks and and that was it. OK, he told me Ron um. Johnson Law something he was the president of, of uh Watson County at the time. Then moved up to present, but this

01:51:52.339 - 01:52:11.129

guy that was an app from our. He was uh he was uh. One of the real culprits, I can't think of his name. This is somebody who was a company rep, yeah, work for the company. He was really the guy. He was there negotiate. Juan was

01:52:11.129 - 01:52:40.520

not the guy that made the decisions. This other fellow was. You don't remember his name. what was his title? You come to me. What was his title? General manager, probably something like that I'm not sure. But he told me was we get. So Uh As a

01:52:40.520 - 01:53:05.060

matter of fact, it wasn't Mark that called me. It wasn't Mark to call me. No, before he, no, it was, he did call me. But there was a guy in the Western Conference that Arnie's number one person. Uh was Walt Engelberg from the Western Conference called

01:53:05.060 - 01:53:28.459

me up and told me that Mark wanted to talk to me. He asked me, he says. You got any special considerations on the on the. On the uh settlement, uh, on a settlement position on, on that. I said, no, I said what. You know, I mean

01:53:28.459 - 01:53:57.609

it's uh. Uh, at this point it is. You know, it's, it's a, it's a fertile time frame to settle. Because a lot of the lots of people of. We're all strike and And you know, and show guys are going to work. It's very timely. And uh

01:53:57.609 - 01:54:18.029

and You know, it's, uh, we obviously would like to go to be honest. So, uh, I was always suspicious of this guy though. But uh he was always super nice to me, so this is the GM. This is the guy can't recall. I mean this is

01:54:18.029 - 01:54:38.290

the guy, oh this is the guy from Teamsters, so he told me, he says, OK, so then more called me. away. OK, then he tells Ron we'll be getting in touch with me. Ron was there. And um And he did tell me, here's the settlement position.

01:54:39.220 - 01:55:11.819

OK. He says there would be no settlement. Unless the union. apologize for having struck the company. What kind of, you know, I told him I said, oh fuck, man. I said that's well. That's crazy. That's crazy stuff, you know. And you know, he wants is there

01:55:11.819 - 01:55:33.149

some legal considerations that he's concerned about or something like that, you know, I'm willing to enter into an agreement or recommend. And I'm a surgeon in charge, not me, you know, I said. But You know that all litigation is put behind us, you know, both sides,

01:55:33.209 - 01:56:01.609

you know, you don't come after us, we don't come after you. We had no practice charges filed against them and All that stuff so. Um, I go to talk to Surgeon says apologies. Fuck with a horse You know, a lousy mother. I can couch it in

01:56:01.609 - 01:56:22.020

a certain way where it really. It'll pass the smell test, you know, it's worth it, we can get behind it because right now, you know, we're under pressure from our members because We can't get it done in Washington. So he said, hey. Gow it up. Let

01:56:22.020 - 01:56:51.399

me look here. I did. to say that. I meet with Ron at the Sea Cliff. I got it all crafted up. And uh uh so and it's from from the local union the international has an involvement in that. no legal responsibilities and so. Anyway, Donald says,

01:56:51.479 - 01:57:12.640

well, he says, I like the way you. and stuff like that and he says, but I, I think it's OK, you know. He says I will not recommend more agree to it well. Mark being such a screwball, you know, you know, changes his mind. You know,

01:57:12.649 - 01:57:29.839

leaves us hanging for a couple of minutes. You have no idea what what happened in in. and changed his mind and that was a really a fatal error on his part, OK, because it cost him the company so you know. That's the part that I that

01:57:29.839 - 01:57:45.379

I jumped over to the, uh, you know, to say because by that point, you know. All bets we're off, you know, we're going to have to engage this guy for more, you know, and. So we put together, you know, that program just like that, you know,

01:57:45.419 - 01:58:07.589

we, we had the newsletters continued, but that was a rank and file effort, very great effort. And to keep the strikers informed and all that, you know. energized all the support. And set up an office in San Francisco to joint council to to break work out

01:58:07.589 - 01:58:22.100

of there. I worked out of there. Eddie was assigned permanently to the to the strike location and stuff like that and the other guy GC Levi was also, so they were let me again he had the offices where the office of the joint counsel said Chuck

01:58:22.100 - 01:58:40.330

myself, yeah. staff people for Boer actually well we she she she passed away she would know where everything's at if I call as matter of fact Jony, like what I had in mind was to call, you know, it depends, you know, where you want to go

01:58:40.330 - 01:59:00.200

with this thing, OK, I mean. You know this is a, there's a lot of stuff there's a lot of stuff. I bargained for this morning. I'm getting more than I bargained for this morning. I, you know, we're going to have to. You know, I don't want

01:59:00.200 - 01:59:30.919

helping helping. I still consider myself an activist and the whole 10 yards, you know. Um At the IVT they know my name. they And I'm friend and foe, you know, and, uh, so my son runs the largest website in the Teamsters Union. And they tried to

01:59:31.189 - 01:59:52.609

try to grab that. Unsuccessfully. Uh www Teamsters.net. I'll look at that. I mean, I'll look at that. Yeah, look at that. Yeah, I write in there every once in a while we were, I was gonna start logging there, but I too many irons in the phone

01:59:52.609 - 02:00:12.169

that can eat you up. Well, you were telling me, OK, you had a resolution that you got through the convention. You had 5 guys assigned to basically work on the economic, you know, the the boycott. Well, OK, Eddie and JC. We're really working with the strikers,

02:00:12.470 - 02:00:34.229

the striker committee and the And they more they were involved. On the support side of it together with Walsh. Walsh was also assigned to it. But he came from a different payroll. He came from, from, from 70, local 70 payroll and uh and They, so did

02:00:34.229 - 02:01:00.060

I. And well actually I was showing counselal table and then the international reimbursed them for you. And uh Uh The uh OK, next, next, next major, I mean, sort of thing continued, you know, I mean there was a lot of work to that continuing to get

02:01:00.060 - 02:01:16.600

things squared away at at uh at Shas and first and that, that went good, you know. But when the economic sanctions campaign started, when the boycott started again, so we did all those, those three components, OK, we wrote that down. We started writing and we, we,

02:01:16.700 - 02:01:51.120

we uh got a fellow called Don. VR VRF. That's Or For Agricultural Institute of I can find it. I have his phone number. Wonderful, wonderful person. I think I have a bright guy and And is the Agricultural Institute of California basically it's what what something like

02:01:51.120 - 02:02:12.089

that. Yeah, do you know Mike Johnson? I do very well. You know I haven't seen him in years, but he was a good friend. Yeah, Mike, I call my my my baby brother. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, he, he was on the board of directors with them after

02:02:12.089 - 02:02:29.609

for a while. I don't know if he still is. Mike's working for the IBT right now. Yeah, he calls me every once in a while. I haven't seen him since I moved to Portland. Yeah, OK, so Mike, Mike would recommend you to. Yeah, he would actually

02:02:29.609 - 02:02:46.419

Mike was the one who told me to apply for the job with the Northern California teamster. I hadn't known about him until now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's a good, he's a good friend. So no but anyways he uh. And I know he'd been working in the

02:02:46.419 - 02:03:08.600

cannery stuff and uh for years, you know, before this stuff happened, you know, mainly in the valley. you know, the sons don't. Heidi was sick there for a while. She had some problems. She's OK and I've got a gorgeous love his house right on. Pinto Lake

02:03:08.600 - 02:03:29.930

in Watsonville. Yeah, when I saw Mark last, they were living right on the near a beach, I guess just north of Watsonville or someplace like that. Yes, I'm gonna talk to my, yeah, this is my first trip that's awesome. Yeah, this is my first trip. Oh

02:03:29.930 - 02:03:51.859

yeah, yeah. But you mentioned these two and you you're breaking down how you were doing the, what we did, we started, we started writing letters to the customer base, um, meaning the safeways of the world and all the other major employers. We got, we got a

02:03:51.859 - 02:04:21.049

list of all his customers, OK, which was harder to do in those days and uh so. We created a file of them and Uh And the letters to the customers actually the theme there was this. This company isn't gonna make it. And There's always concerns about

02:04:21.870 - 02:04:47.100

Product contamination. Uh, you know, that occurs during strikes. And because you've got uh you know, lesson. qualified workers and that type of stuff and And have after. The facts and I had occasion to talk to some of the recipients of it, you know, and they, they

02:04:47.100 - 02:05:02.600

all read it, you know, the only copies of those letters for her they exist if they existed in the joint council file. If Barbara was here, she still, she'd get them in an instant, you know, but I I should talk to her probably. I can call

02:05:02.600 - 02:05:23.129

Jody up and call her up right now. Oh that'll be my catch, you know. this is the book for me. I mean, you might want to consider doing it yourself if you're a man. You might want to consider writing this yourself if you're a man. I

02:05:23.129 - 02:05:36.475

mean, I'm just, I, I would rather have somebody else write it, to be honest with you. I'd rather have somebody else write it, you know, I was. I was so wrapped up into it and you lose perspective, you know, sometimes you know because your own viewpoint

02:05:36.475 - 02:05:48.875

overpowers anything else, you know, it's always better when it's written by somebody. Well, this is the stuff that I didn't really know very much about when the strike was going on. I mean, I went to the rallies. I remember, you know, I would interview people. I

02:05:48.875 - 02:06:11.290

wrote a couple of articles, uh, I knew I knew people like Shavella and stuff. Uh, I did not know what was going on. He was a little striker and then became a union official, good guy, very sweet, very solid, very modest, modest solid, you know, for

02:06:11.290 - 02:06:32.060

all of his talent, he never his own horn at all. Joe, Joe and I had our differences, you know, you, you know, and, and his loyalty is laid there. His loyalty is laid with the TDU. a choice between the TDU and the uh and the uh

02:06:32.939 - 02:06:55.240

and the teachers, it would be TDU you know that's that's the problem, but you know I got no problem with Joey, you know, I mean it's uh but there's not enough people. You know, so you try to, try to value those that are. Yeah, but, uh,

02:06:56.850 - 02:07:23.040

What came about actually and then the The the effort with with Wells Fargo, which was, you know, We had more. Badly hobbled already know what it was was it already the pressure was, was, was great OK the. The grower, how I know some of this stuff

02:07:23.040 - 02:07:46.770

was we're writing to all the growers, OK, because we got the list of all this growers from. And uh That was a lot easier than the customer base. But uh The guy that actually led the group that took over. The company David Gill was Gill, yeah,

02:07:47.270 - 02:08:12.120

the girl. You have the grower. And uh And the Attorney that handled it was Dick Mals. And uh who is still around. I'm still in contact with him. What's this? What's how you spell last name? Baltzman, M A L T Z M A N. OK, yeah.

02:08:14.209 - 02:08:36.330

But was he the one who discovered that there had never been a certification vote at Watsonville Canon? Was that his? No, no. Dick represented companies he's not a union attorney at all. No, that came about, do you know Dwayne Bea? Beason Dwayne Beason, Beason law firm.

02:08:36.700 - 02:09:01.540

He's the primary uh attorney for cancers in Northern California. His law firm is E E E S O N. Yeah, B E S O N. he's, it's amazing that he's still practicing. He's older than me. But, uh, ever since his wife passed away. You know, it's

02:09:01.540 - 02:09:25.500

good that he probably is working but he looked. I saw him, you know, that's why I say. And, uh, and I, we always, you know, have a. Good professional relationship, you know, we appreciated each other's work. We've been involved in other litigation. He was the guy.

02:09:26.240 - 02:09:49.839

In the litigation Uh with with me or for me. Uh, on the owner operators too, you know, and so. There was a theory, OK, in those days, that's all it was, OK, because it was not a film, but if you have never had a cer certification

02:09:49.839 - 02:10:23.240

election. That you could always have one, yeah, you know, absent the contract. And uh So Using that the, we developed a plan to Mo's thinking had always been. But You've got a year in which to. So once you get to that which is unfortunately still the

02:10:23.240 - 02:10:43.069

case with a lot of a lot of unions have wised up since then. We've used it in this joint council repeatedly. The basic measure will strike, the strike, all strike we use this this. We've exercised the option of calling for a certification, which is what we

02:10:43.069 - 02:11:09.740

ended up doing over here. It had to be done timely. Um, so has this strategy been used by the Teamsters before the Watsonville? This is the first time. Oh yeah. That was very much the first. It was really a breakthrough. It was really a breakthrough. You

02:11:09.740 - 02:11:31.629

know because you couldn't get past that. You know, they would call for an election, a decertification, but there's other ways to tackle that if you're. But unions can do. But uh not in the, in the manner that that we were able to do it there, but

02:11:31.629 - 02:11:53.379

anyway, we call for a certification election. First off, you know. We had a right call for certification and that the strikers who were eligible to vote. In the certification election, that was the key because once they've been permanently replaced on a decertification election they don't have

02:11:53.379 - 02:12:17.649

the right to vote so we figured that that. To be very candid with you, once we succeeded in calling for the election. While there was extremely From a perception standpoint as to who would win the election or not. The point became moot. The truth of the

02:12:17.649 - 02:12:39.419

matter, it became moot because You can use all of these. Bullshit devices that the employers have created that stalled unions into perpetuity, use the same shit against them that they've been using against us for all these years. That's why Diamond Walnut lasted 10 years. 10 years

02:12:39.790 - 02:13:03.490

and they, and they never had to count the votes. You can challenge the vote. You can challenge the vote, yeah, well, they actually don't want they did. Basic vegetable. But yeah, so. In this particular case, that was a That was a magnificent day I mean in

02:13:03.490 - 02:13:27.500

Watson just a I mean, everybody rallied around that, you know, we had our our full team of everybody. We were shuffling people. We had set up the veterans hall as our center. Of operations and we were running all the The strikers All the eligible voters. To

02:13:27.500 - 02:13:52.189

the veterans hall, OK. Give them a quick briefing as to what they were going to encounter. And then Because it was, it was all jammed up back at the plant. had people driving them. and Large cars like Vinceoys was one of our drivers. He said he

02:13:52.189 - 02:14:14.040

never had that much fun in his life. I mean he just absolutely loved it. Yeah, and uh. And they shuffled them to the picket line and uh and they got to vote. Well, there was a countermeasure that the company pulled, OK, because they figured we had

02:14:14.040 - 02:14:41.200

the numerical advantage. They changed, they hired a whole bunch of people in excess of what they needed, OK. Uh Sometimes you wonder, you wonder, they actually cut the work hours of the scabs, OK, so that they could. hire more people and uh You know all this

02:14:41.200 - 02:15:05.859

talk about and shit I mean you thought I mean of course nobody gave a damn you know back home you know and um. But uh meaning immigration considerations, you know, the, uh, but that's what the countermeasure by the company was, so, uh. And that they thought.

02:15:08.200 - 02:15:35.620

They thought they had the edge because of that, OK, they hired so many people and uh. What they also didn't realize is that we had A countermeasure to their countermeasure. OK, which was. Uh, we were in contact with the scabs. We had prepared material for distribution

02:15:35.620 - 02:15:53.990

to the scabs, encouraging the scamps to work for the union. I've actually seen a couple of those leaflets there. It was so there was a lot of, lot of we anticipated that, you know, because guys like Chiello who really knew the plan for him or you

02:15:53.990 - 02:16:16.580

know, Armando had once the nomination thing was over, Armando sort of disappeared. From the scene there and he was actually persona non grata to to the a lot of the People you know they hung a label on him, you know, saying that he had uh uh

02:16:16.910 - 02:16:38.019

deserted them and that he abandoned the uh. And I could see where some people perceive that, but I'll tell you his intentions were nothing but, you know. Well, I mean, Sergio just had a bad jacket I think originally Sergio had a bad, a bad reputation because

02:16:38.019 - 02:16:57.879

he was associated with King, you know, I think people may be sold him short my sense. I mean I. would have, I think would have won the election, you know. On the election and I see. I think um maybe he won his spot on the on

02:16:57.879 - 02:17:25.459

the the two spots on the board or something like that. oh BAA I think and the BAs where I think he won as a BA. and he was a UPS driver. Didn't work in Cannery, yeah, no, but he was, he was very active. he had the

02:17:25.459 - 02:17:41.639

resources to run but you're right, he actually He was sort of Pop up, but you know, you're working full time and you work a lot of hours and you work your, so he would pop up um every so. I don't think he was a big strike,

02:17:42.769 - 02:18:09.459

but they had this thing on. Sergio I had a really intense dislike with. the world Uh, he blamed them for trying to burn down the town. They, they torched they set off a bunch of fires, but uh. Uh, they were able to. And his family was

02:18:09.459 - 02:18:36.379

in there when they did that, you know, so. doesn't sound like TDU somehow. it was more. So I don't think it Had anything to do with CDU, you know, but TU gets ready for a lot of stuff. You know it's The But Yeah, it's uh. So

02:18:36.389 - 02:19:05.588

as far as the third leg. Which was the, uh, which was the finances we already had an effort gone. OK, keeping the uh primarily. was primarily keeping them informed, OK. And that so that You know, that was like a trooper. OK, you know that's uh. Uh

02:19:06.339 - 02:19:31.639

Mort being the way he is OK. I don't doubt that he was wining and dining. You know this guy had a We love to wine and. you know, you know, some of the, the executives at Wells Fargo. And uh so we thought it was important to

02:19:31.639 - 02:20:04.839

keep them. See now pressure is. There's the general president following the convention. Well, The sedan chair that carried him on the. Became attached to the strike for two reasons. One of the guys. There was a wall with the strike. OK, this guy JC Lambard. And pressure

02:20:04.839 - 02:20:38.839

were actually friends. From the days in Ohio, I think, or, or whatever they had, they had a working relationship. Yeah, and, and Blake? contended that he did too. But really JC was the guy. And uh so. our support for like for instance, don't try to take

02:20:38.839 - 02:20:57.429

the benefits away from. And stuff, you know, that's always a lot of pressure on that, you know, and so we don't have to sweat that no more, you know, and, uh, so we had a board, but what really brought. There was an incident that occurred. OK,

02:20:58.129 - 02:21:21.599

the guy that had been the Western Conference director prior to Arnie Winemaster was a guy called Andy Anderson. Now you, this one will boggle your mind. Yeah And uh You know, somewhere You know, I'm, that's why I wish I had my calendar, but somewhere in the,

02:21:21.660 - 02:21:48.610

in the course of all these events and a latter stages of the strike, OK, when, well, it was right after we had petitions for for certification. We got a call Well or this guy from the Western Conference that more council wants to get into negotiations. I

02:21:48.610 - 02:22:28.429

said sure. It's a monoe at the higher. On our side we had uh we had uh. Blake Sergio. Eddie Leon. And myself We, we have this Uh more counsel gets there and And uh he's got with him. What is Ron's last name again? Just won't come

02:22:28.429 - 02:22:49.490

to me, you know. Yeah, I remember all these the other names and Ron doesn't know it's not a difficult name, you know, yeah, and, uh. And who shows up with more. As part of his negotiating team, but Andy Anderson. Right, the former director of the Western

02:22:49.490 - 02:23:08.450

Conference of. it blew my mind. Can you imagine what I OK, so everybody just sort of like paralyzed, you know, I mean we all knew the guy, you know, I mean, he knew who I was for sure, you know, he knew what Eddie was Eddie worked

02:23:08.450 - 02:23:37.950

for him, OK, and Blake had worked for him. And uh So As a general rule in those. Places I try to defer to the local union, you know, because it's very big, you know that uh. I, uh, assumed its authority there and I. I call for

02:23:37.950 - 02:24:06.820

a caucus at the end, you know, the. Everybody said, And the outside we were. And uh Mark. That's it isn't gonna take long. But And I told everybody, OK, this is, this is not good. OK, there's, there's a reason why this guy is here, OK, uh,

02:24:07.150 - 02:24:35.150

I told him I says chances are they're setting up. I also try to find some. Avenue To sue the local union and obviously the international unions here. I said no. Go back in there Nobody speaks, OK. Unless I cleared for him to speak. And this is

02:24:35.629 - 02:24:54.940

treacherous waters here we're going to be in the lawsuit being what. And it turned out that that's, I still smelled that that's what he wanted to be because of what Andy said when we got in there, OK. Um So we go back there and there. Um

02:24:57.080 - 02:25:24.400

And then he speaks up, you know. And I asked him, you know, I said. Are you here on behalf of the And he says, yeah, what do you think I'm doing here? I said OK, I just wanted. And uh The Then he turns And he gets

02:25:24.400 - 02:25:47.580

into this, makes a statement. To the fact that The team shows are targeting more consoles. First he he gets sense of the state and he says, I never heard any such thing as the union calling for a certification of election. Yeah, I, I never heard of

02:25:47.580 - 02:26:09.139

any such thing like that. He said, uh, you know, something like that ain't a bunch of bullshit, you know. So, you know, and, and uh. And you know he didn't get any response from anybody, you know. So, uh, then he goes on to say that uh.

02:26:10.200 - 02:26:36.509

That All this is happening because internal teams to politics. And boy council is being targeted. By all these irregular activities and strike and the rest of it because he's a personal friend of mine. In other words, he's trying to lay, you know, make a statement that,

02:26:36.519 - 02:26:57.990

uh, you know, that in 10 cents is worth a dime, but he was the inference was that. More console got struck and we're having this huge boycott activity against the company and all the rest of it. Because he's a friend of Andy Anderson, so Presser is

02:26:59.349 - 02:27:17.799

reser who's the guy that. Anderson from office obviously it was a good move, you know, asshole, man, yeah, amazing, amazing, you know, I've had some peculiar shit in my my lifetime because of all the stuff I've I've. But that would have to be. Had to be

02:27:17.799 - 02:27:31.839

just, uh, you know, one of the things that is just, you know, just completely shakes you up, you know, I mean just to show you the level of people that we have sometimes, you know, in the union side. You don't think the guy just went south,

02:27:31.919 - 02:27:49.080

I mean, after press. Part of it is he looked terrible. This guy looked, he looked like shit, you know, I mean pit and stuff from me. He was a boozer. He was a pretty heavy drinker, you know, and, uh, and I'm sure that. Mor also had

02:27:49.080 - 02:28:15.700

his own private plane, you know. And Anderson had access to a jet that That had shit like that that was a pretty sophisticated. He wasn't just a party boy. He had some fairly shrewd, you know, unorthodox maneuvers. Yeah, I don't know what's happened to him since,

02:28:16.219 - 02:28:40.230

you know, since the strike. I ran into him. Amazing thing. I mean, I was probably anybody was instrumental. Bring him as far as the company goes, uh, as far as his company goes, uh, causing his lose the company as anybody, you know, but. That uh Uh,

02:28:40.480 - 02:28:58.589

you know, we sent over. So a bottle of wine, shit like that, I mean, uh, you know that's kind of. I don't think he's brain dead, you know, I agree with you. He's a very shrewd individual, you know, haven't talked to him and stuff, you know,

02:28:58.709 - 02:29:19.059

and he's conniving and, uh, but he does irregular stuff though, like for instance, when he's drunk or on drugs, he come to them one day all all by himself. usually travels when his pilot was his bodyguard. But He showed up at the uh at the union

02:29:19.059 - 02:29:38.410

hall in Watsonville. During the strike. You know, like he's one of them and uh start bullshit with everybody and stuff like that. We're lucky they didn't string him up in the he's just but but he didn't screwy stuff. But this one here is, can you imagine

02:29:38.410 - 02:30:01.809

that, you know, I mean, it wasn't dry from, from that meeting, but uh but I was. You know with the International Union and uh and uh. And you know, and Report in great detail what And I told the guys on our team. And Them too if

02:30:01.809 - 02:30:25.410

we had any trouble before. Getting the resources we need it, I, yeah. You know, we've got Uh, I said we played our cards perfectly, you know, he tried, he tried to talk to Leon. I tried to beat Leon, you know. And stuff Leon would, would not

02:30:25.410 - 02:30:45.400

talk to him, you know, and he could tell them, you know, that he had me and nobody else, so. He had Whatever he sought to accomplish by by showing up that he obviously had been behind the scenes that Anderson and this thing with, you know, you

02:30:45.400 - 02:31:10.959

keep going back there because it's so important, OK, the certification vote actually blindsided him blindsided. And blindsided more you know and uh. Yeah, it flushed, flushed him out of the woodwork though, didn't it? Right out in the open. When was he replaced by he wanted to

02:31:10.959 - 02:31:40.059

be and he wanted to be president, you know. Well When was he removed of the Western Conference? When when was Anderson removed by Jackie Presser? Not shortly after Jackie got figured the day of the convention, but the convention was the resolution came from the convention. OK,

02:31:40.209 - 02:32:03.750

shortly after the convention, uh presser assumed authority. He actually was the president that that after that convention over shortly after the, you know, the 86 convention was when er was was elected, yeah, so he was gone. already. And uh and replaced them with Arnie. Andy Wamaster,

02:32:04.059 - 02:32:29.780

who is, uh, you know, you know, Annie's background as far as the NFL. that's in the Hall of Fame. Who do you play for? I was kind of a a peculiar individual. Bad guys and that, you know, no trouble with all these guys, you know, they

02:32:29.780 - 02:32:50.769

lose, they get too far for that they lose track of the fact of what their function is, and that was part of Arnie's problem. But, but For me personally, I mean. He treated me fairly. Uh Even though I never worked directly. But he had to say,

02:32:50.849 - 02:33:10.830

you know, what I did, but my interest has always been to and to, to do. I like to do things like right now they've got a nasty nasty cycle. Now, you know, one that I talked to my son. Just about a week ago and that. My

02:33:10.830 - 02:33:36.500

son is the The president of local 644 in Santa Rosa and uh besides being the webmaster I was I was born in the wrong century, so are you. And uh And they, they're still going through an effort to trust you. So anyway, but they've got a

02:33:36.639 - 02:33:59.740

strike going on and granite rock construction that has I made a couple of posts on Tson Tison that is a bulletin board. So it's got Anything about anything on the on the team says it's OK and it holds no punches, it's not censored, so. Conflic gets

02:33:59.740 - 02:34:20.309

blasted just as much as anybody else, you know, you imagine that don't make, don't make my son or be very popular, but I'll have to start reading yeah. skinned and they don't realize that they're better off having it out in the open. But uh What you

02:34:20.309 - 02:34:37.299

mentioned that you thought Arnie not Arnie Anderson had a uh That he was kind of undermining the strike from the get go, I would say so yeah I was even even before he was removed Jackie. It's a question of influence and influence, let's face it, you

02:34:37.299 - 02:34:55.799

know, it's. Because they had to pull the plug on balance that's on, you know, with them and they do that they do, you know, and uh. Well, there were some statements made by certain individuals and stuff. 22 hours or something that I ain't gonna give you

02:34:55.799 - 02:35:14.299

because you know it's uh. You know, it's It casts us into bad light, you know, and that was part of. Part of what uh you know part of the way, the reason I am. You know, it's just, it's, uh, I don't have any patience or anything

02:35:14.299 - 02:35:33.990

for that kind of stuff, you know, I just don't. And why, I mean, if he was actually running the Western Conference. And he was close to console and was even before the strike started. It it's It seems like he might have been throwing his weight around

02:35:33.990 - 02:35:51.679

before before then like he could have stopped the whole thing from happening if he really, you know, been, been, absolutely he knows me so. You know, I, I've said a lot of stuff in my life. Just by knowing the right person and stuff like that, it's

02:35:51.679 - 02:36:11.650

uh people don't know settlement positions, OK, and uh and access is important access is very important. And uh We could have, you know, worked it out ultimately the decision is the member's decision, but, uh, uh, you know, where it can be done or where it can't

02:36:11.650 - 02:36:27.320

be done. Look at that. The effort in, uh, in short frozen food was uh. It was unique, if you would, you know, I mean, he's just never done fact finding before that. And probably, you know, it's a, it's a tool other than myself, you know, it's

02:36:27.320 - 02:36:46.570

a tool that needs to be used a lot more because you need to find the facts from mutual parties that that members have some recognition of. And so they can actually weigh it make a. Make an intelligent decision instead of one based on purely on emotion

02:36:46.570 - 02:37:05.790

or instinct you know and uh. All these things are changes and unions are very archaic, you know, they're very entranced, you know, part of the reason is that. And there's one thing I would do, you know, I, I'd have mandatory retirement on the, on the officials,

02:37:05.849 - 02:37:29.469

you know, I mean Jesus Christ, you know, like AFL CIO run by some guy in the 80s still, you know, and. How do you bring in You are here If you can't Let the younger people into the into the, you know, but they, they're so, uh,

02:37:29.919 - 02:37:47.040

there's all kinds of problems with the SEIU what they're going through right now, you know, it's, uh, it's terrible, it's terrible in fine English you won't believe. Well, don't get me started on that one. Yeah, it's got to be a major, major, major, uh, split here.

02:37:47.519 - 02:38:05.179

There is really, and you know, who knows how that's gonna end up. The pity of it is that that union has done so much good stuff that union has done so much good stuff in its day, you know. Yeah. But why this? you know, why, why

02:38:05.179 - 02:38:23.849

good direction, you know, I mean, it's, uh, uh, you know, but there's personal agenda at play, you know, self-interest. I'm still trying to figure out what makes Stern tick, you know, I can't, but I'll tell you, I don't, I, I, I like our future you know

02:38:23.849 - 02:38:53.849

with Obama. And the words. If you haven't heard spoken by. OK, then the settlement came, OK, which was The beginning of the end of the war, OK, the Wells Fargo. Call them call their loan. They met with Wells Fargo. I didn't. I was not in a

02:38:53.849 - 02:39:14.219

meeting. Everybody thinks I was, I wasn't. I didn't need to be. I didn't, you know, I had a, I had an absolute. I figured once they agree to meet, OK, they can't tell you what they're gonna do because of legal considerations, I can't and uh but

02:39:15.280 - 02:39:33.040

I knew it was all over You know, they wouldn't be meeting with you otherwise, OK, when we had threatened and I've gotten the support from professor. OK, thanks for chain. You know those guys, but I knew Pre was 100% aboard, OK can, only that, but I

02:39:33.040 - 02:40:03.889

had a friend who was working for me, OK, that, uh, that, that was in contact with him and uh. That To send a letter out to all the teams for local unions. That Asking them to respond. Regarding their relationship with Wells Fargo to identify the level

02:40:03.889 - 02:40:31.330

of the relationship. OK. And he didn't say what was gonna happen, OK, and you know, I didn't say. And uh I gave a lot of thought that I. Um, and That went out on, you know, there are legal issues that you had to navigate no formal

02:40:31.330 - 02:40:43.969

action or anything on our part, but just a request from there's no problem. You don't say no, you know, right? So I mean I know there was some controversy over the strikers wanted to go pick up the local branch, and there's a question about whether they

02:40:43.969 - 02:41:02.200

could or if the union could be. What was that? Oh, I'm sorry. There was some. I remember there was some question about the strikers wanted to pick up the local branch of Wells Fargo or the one on the Santa Cruz. There was some question over whether

02:41:02.200 - 02:41:17.040

they could do it, whether it was whether it would compromise the teamsters legally. I personally uh You know, considering it and everything, but I think, you know, waste manpower and stuff like that because if you're gonna make it happen, you got to get to the people

02:41:17.040 - 02:41:38.259

on top, right, and the business world is different than than. government I And that's where you had they they understood money, OK, but it wasn't a legal problem and it's just whether it was an effective tactic. I didn't figure it would be, you know, it would

02:41:38.259 - 02:41:54.620

have been informational anyway, right? Yeah, you're not, you're not actually, it's not a strike or anything like that, maybe a spillover from the strike, but you certainly don't want a secondary or anything like that, you know. There are times when it's very effective, but um in

02:41:54.620 - 02:42:13.089

the retail area it's effective and stuff. You would turn back some people. You're talking about branches all over the place. Pick lines are extremely difficult to maintain, you know, because it takes manpower and stuff like that to do that stuff. No, we did it, we did

02:42:13.089 - 02:42:34.000

it in Britain. First off, we found out. How many Billions of dollars. OK. Do you have do you have the exact figure you know of how much, how much of the Teamsters pension fund was? Well, we never actually got you know complete analysis of it, but

02:42:38.179 - 02:43:03.150

you figure. We wanted to know how many local unions. had accounts with Wells Fargo. And whether or not they participated in any separate healthcare. Trust foundations and All the rest of But where the biggest money was at was in the purchase. And also health and welfare

02:43:03.150 - 02:43:23.809

sparkling that there was a lot of money in health and welfare that. When the accounts were maintained. Uh, well, Wells Fargo by Wells Fargo and uh But in the Western Conference of pension, I don't know that I that I have the specific figures right now or

02:43:23.809 - 02:43:49.120

if I Adam that uh. taking liberties and some of that stuff or not, you know, but. We had over $6 billion of dollars. That's a comfortable figure. that the relationship was. Over $6 billion of the whole works or just the pension funds. For multiples. There were

02:43:49.120 - 02:44:15.589

several fences. The father had it The And The nice thing about the union, good and the bad, OK, you know. When you have central authority, if that guy says that you are going to quit going. And the general executive board makes adopts a resolution. That you

02:44:15.589 - 02:44:37.809

are not to do business with. Guess what? That's what happens. And uh In this case, the threat was enough. It was just the implied threat that this was going to happen. It was enough And we didn't use anything other than the fact that the words we

02:44:37.809 - 02:45:11.080

used in the correspondence of all that. that there had been a serious erosion of their ability To handle our money because of their Continuing remember continuing Financing Of a company that was clearly going out of business. And And we threw in the park that had caused

02:45:11.730 - 02:45:42.769

very substantial grief. To our work to the workforce to ours. That's pretty much along the lines of what it was. And Attorneys and off it went, you know. I'll tell you one. A lot of unions, really pissed About this because they had a very strong relationship.

02:45:43.160 - 02:46:02.110

Row was a was a user friendly bank. They would, you know, support functions that a lot of these organizations were. Everything from Boy Scouts to Little Leagues or whatever the case would be and Wells Farker would always be there, you know, and these guys put a

02:46:02.110 - 02:46:21.980

lot of value in that shit, it's amazing, but. When the shit hit the fan, there was not going to be a choice for them. So guess what all these, all these local unions. Uh, we're calling up Wells Fargo saying, hey, we're gonna have to dump you

02:46:21.980 - 02:46:45.750

guys and stuff, so it worked itself off the ladder very nicely, you know, and And here comes our letter and our letters there. Oh And all of a sudden, hey, what's going on? So the meeting was done simply to address our concerns. That was no commitment

02:46:45.750 - 02:47:08.639

was given by Wells Fargo. No one wants. OK, go ahead. Then the settlement came, OK, which was The beginning of the end of the war, OK, the Wells Fargo. Call, call their own. They met with Wells Fargo. I didn't. I was not in a meeting. Every

02:47:08.639 - 02:47:28.330

everybody thinks I was. I wasn't. I didn't need to be. I didn't, you know, I had a, I had an absolute. I figured once they agree to meet, OK, they can't tell you what they're gonna do because of legal considerations, I can't and uh but