00:00:00.039 - 00:00:20.260

OK, we're recording. Um. Gloria, I've already talked to you for quite a while, so I'm gonna give Kua most of the attention. I have some questions I want to ask you because just yesterday I was at the Teamster's office in Joint Council 7 and um I

00:00:20.260 - 00:00:37.060

was looking over the Transcript of Joe Fahey's disciplinary hearing, I guess you were a witness for him um and I. There was some stuff in there that I didn't know about, you know, I guess a rally on August 11th that you spoke up, but we'll, we'll

00:00:37.060 - 00:00:55.180

get to that, um. OK, let me, let me ask you first of all, um, just personal background. How long you've been in Watsonville? How long you've been working at Watsonville Canning? How old were you when you? Well, I was, I was a very young kid, you

00:00:55.180 - 00:01:14.290

know, when I was living here in Watsonville for 337 years. I'm working for Watsonvi Canning, well, not very long time, 6 years. Where were you born? I'm born in. Jalisco, Mexico Jalisco, Mexico. Is that where most of the people of Wasville were from originally? Most part

00:01:14.290 - 00:01:26.989

of the people came from Jalisco. Yeah, there's one thing that Steve mentioned to me is that one of the things that made it easier when you were trying to get people to come back with a big boat was that everybody was in the same. You know,

00:01:27.809 - 00:01:41.550

Everybody had gone back to Mexico. They were pretty much in the same, the same part, and people were in touch with each other, you know, whether they were there or here, um. Did you go back, either of you? No, no, no, no you were quite young

00:01:41.550 - 00:01:59.059

when you came here 14, right? Yeah, I was 15. No, I was 15 when I started in the can. So yeah, I was 14, 1. Once your, your dad brought the family up, he never went back, not to, no. Did you ever? Well, I came before

00:01:59.059 - 00:02:15.970

every year they took me here for vacations, you know, but I'm not leave to Mexico until I'll stay here until when I complete my 14 years older and they said that's why I want to start working in the cannery very job because during that time, you

00:02:15.970 - 00:02:28.110

know, there was a lot of violence was going on. Here in the high school, I don't want to be a gangster, and it was more easy for me for looking for a job. So during that time they don't ask you for your age. They're only asking

00:02:28.110 - 00:02:47.449

you for the Social Security. That's why I got a chance to work in the game. This was what 1979, 19, 1978, 1978 and um. What, what, what work were you doing in the cannery? uh, doing, I mean, line work, line work, so when I, when I

00:02:47.449 - 00:03:01.945

back from strike, Gloria pushing me and says, Hey, you should work for something else. I said, no, I want, I want to work in like a rank and file people, you know. And I was opening for the lab. So after the strike, when I back from

00:03:01.945 - 00:03:16.649

the strike, I applied for the lab position, working in the laboratory. And then after that when the seniority beat me, because it's a lot of people more than me have seniority for work in the lab that was opening, so that applied. To for my position, so

00:03:16.649 - 00:03:36.410

I applied for VA4 leader. So they trained me for a 4 leader before the company was closed up for a while, the lines, you know, work with the people. So you had your work then, uh, after when I was working on the lab, yeah, yeah, yeah,

00:03:36.570 - 00:03:52.339

yeah. Did you How old were you when you came when you came to Washington? Well, I was, since when I was 5 years old, I came from vacations. My father took us here for vacations and then we'll go back to Mexico, but I told you I'm,

00:03:52.580 - 00:04:05.125

I'm not back to Mexico when I complete the 14 years. So when I complete my 14 years, you know, I'll stay here. So I'll decide to. Go to school in here, you know, because my father fixed the papers for us. He says, I don't have money,

00:04:05.205 - 00:04:16.894

but I want to fix the papers for you guys whenever you want to go. I mean in the United States, you'll be legal persons. You don't need to run like one back people, so that's why I have the opportunity to to travel to back and forth.

00:04:17.045 - 00:04:34.869

How, how long have you been in this country? 37 years, yeah, for a long time. Moved back and forth. Was was he a bracero or was he my father, my father, he was a bracero. He was working in that program, you know, it was, it was

00:04:34.869 - 00:04:51.049

more easy. It was more easy for the people and also my father, he's serving in the military in Mexico. Yeah, he was in the military in Mexico. It was more easy for him to. So you started at Watsonvilleaning when you were still a teenager and you

00:04:51.049 - 00:05:11.070

had to hide from Mrs. Oh yeah, I have a big scenario, you know, I was a big great school. Somebody else asked me, you know, what school do you going or what university do you going to learn be? A union rep or a union position. I

00:05:11.070 - 00:05:31.230

said it's not school, not university. The strike was my grade school, the people, this is a great school. It's not universities, it's not schools. Did you I know that about the summer before the strike actually started, uh, they speeded up, they speeded up the line a

00:05:31.230 - 00:05:50.589

lot, uh, that the conditions got much worse in the plant. Oh yeah. Yeah, during the strike, I think the scabs working and I mean they're ugly and awful. I mean uh conditions, you know, but even before the strike, no, no, no, no, no, barely when the

00:05:50.589 - 00:06:07.600

company starting like when my end starting in 19. She was working in there. I'm the 2nd generation that was working at Watsonville and I was like Gloria too. Gloria, she's starting very young there more first than me. There was in really bad conditions. My ancestors either

00:06:07.600 - 00:06:25.950

running spinach or running asparagus or broccoli. They don't have very much lines. They don't have two lines, and then they're running tomatoes first. They start with tomatoes. They start with the tomatoes and then later running, I mean broccoli and spinach. She's made like um. How much?

00:06:26.160 - 00:06:47.250

He says 95 cents an hour. When was this? 1959, 1959. I mean, I don't even, I don't think that was minimum wage then. No, no, no, 79 cents an hour. They had a union. Well, they have a union. They pay $1. They pay $1 monthly union

00:06:47.250 - 00:07:07.070

dues, yeah, yeah, so basically that's an hour's pay, yeah. Um, did you get, when you went to work there, was it what you expected? No, I'm not even, I don't have any idea what I just the cannery. I don't expect nothing except when I get there,

00:07:07.230 - 00:07:25.619

you know, it was a hard work. That was a hard work, but like I said, I don't want to be a gangster, so I'll maintain stay there. Let me ask you, and I, you too, Gloria, um. Consul went ahead, I guess, right at the beginning of

00:07:25.619 - 00:07:44.880

June, didn't he? And he said, I'm not renewing the contract, I'm cutting wages, and you kept working for a few months after that. Um, I don't know very much about that period, what happened during the summer. Mainly what I know is, you know, beginning of October

00:07:44.880 - 00:08:02.390

and after that. So anything either one of you can tell me. I found out yesterday there was a big rally in August that you helped organize actually, Gloria, um, I have to identify you so I know when I listen to the tape recorder who's talking, um.

00:08:03.950 - 00:08:21.929

Can you tell me anything about that either of you? Were you active from the beginning too? Oh yes. Yeah, it was a big march, marching for the peace before going strike, remember, Gloria? It was a march too, I mean. To tell our company that we're all

00:08:21.929 - 00:08:39.359

together and we got support out there and we prepared for a strike. Were you working without a contract then or were you working? No, I was working with extension. Yeah, they're extending us, but the company doesn't want to be deducting us our union dues, and you

00:08:39.359 - 00:09:00.369

took a strike vote toward the end of August. Shaw first and then and then and then um. Did you expect a strike? Mm, no, are you, Gloria? We don't expect strike. We're ready, but I don't expect, I don't expect that we're going to strike. We wait

00:09:00.369 - 00:09:17.280

for until the last word, you know, or that maybe the company changed the mind, or but we're ready and we'll take the book before, before September 9th, right? And we take a vote, they have a big meeting and then we vote and then they call and

00:09:17.280 - 00:09:34.210

they they send the papers to the International Union and then they approving us. We wait for they're approving us to go on strike. Now the meeting that I read about yesterday was I guess the July meeting that was where you. You made a resolution to have

00:09:34.210 - 00:09:47.950

a rally, Gloria. Um, I was under the impression, I think the first time I interviewed you, you told me that really until the strike. You didn't pay all that much attention to what was going on in the union, and that was the way it was for

00:09:47.950 - 00:10:06.760

most of you, you know. Oh no, no, no, since, since day one, the first day that we walked out, you know, before the before the strike, did you go to meetings before the strike? Yeah. When did you start going? Well, you know, it's, it's like the

00:10:06.760 - 00:10:26.739

city council meetings, you know, something's going on, then everybody wants to go to the meetings but before the strike, before you went out on strike in early 1985 in June, July, August. Well, they're calling us for ratifications, I mean, uh, contracts, but they're not gonna be

00:10:26.739 - 00:10:41.780

giving us a good offer, you know, and then so the people decide to have a meetings and with the union, you know, with Sergio and Richard King and Fred Hein that was in their power. So those guys, they don't know what to do with us, you

00:10:41.780 - 00:10:58.302

know, because. They they respect we're going to strike and then they respect that the wage is going lower and lower until $375. We make how much money we make for an hour. We were making like $5 no, no, $6 something. I'm not sure, between 6, not

00:10:58.302 - 00:11:16.335

even $7 the rank and file members, but the company offering us to us to cut their. Rights, the wages in 1985 it was $375 per hour, no benefits, no insurance, no nothing. This was forcing us to go on strike. This 11 of those meetings, Gloria put

00:11:16.335 - 00:11:35.940

the made the motion and put the resolution to go in for a rally or support, you know, but it happened in the union meeting. It was a TDU group. They just meet out without us, right? They just going organizing and from what's going on. There was

00:11:35.940 - 00:11:58.000

a job, yeah, their sals, you know, I interviewed Frank Bartake and he said something very interesting. He said. They had made a very big mistake. Because the union, you know, local 9-12 pretty much stopped functioning, you know, Richard King. didn't know what to do. He wasn't

00:11:58.000 - 00:12:13.390

prepared to deal with the trouble with the company. He went off and got drunk and you know, and Alex actually said something very similar that the union had just stopped. There was nothing going on. Everybody was kind of running around trying to do things on their

00:12:13.390 - 00:12:30.260

own. Frank said that the mistake TDU made was they tried to act as if they were the union, that there was a big Power, you know, vacuum, and they just stepped right into it and tried to do what Richard King should have been doing, but he

00:12:30.260 - 00:12:47.849

said what we should have done is what eventually happened. We should have called for a striker's committee meeting, you know, to take charge. And that that was a terrible mistake that they made. Um, Was there, I mean, I know, but you know the way they talk,

00:12:48.099 - 00:13:07.510

it's like, you know, they were in control all the time and they weren't, you know, because the people, the people was the one that selected that, you know, the striker committee and everything, you know. Well, they ran that slate, I guess, in 1982. Yeah, that was

00:13:07.510 - 00:13:24.156

Guillermina Ramirez. There was Jose. Lopez, that was from Bardaki. They were in Joefe. They tried to run in twice TV in your group, but you know what, that people, let me tell you, when a TU organized, I mean the protesters or or events like that, you

00:13:24.156 - 00:13:38.452

know what happened? They arrest most of the people because they want to controlling us. It's like when people go to preschool and they want the strike you sitting there and they said, I want you to do this. They want to use that that blah blah blah

00:13:38.452 - 00:13:54.252

and they want to use the people, but they want to use on the wrong side. They never telling us the truth what's going on, so they want to be like under control in us, right? That was their ideas. I don't know. They never had faith in

00:13:54.252 - 00:14:10.630

the work, you know, they got all this bunch of, you know, Guillermina was on their slate you said in 19, Guillermina was on. She was very angry with him. I remember when the strike. I remember the interview that you did with Guilina also had a lot

00:14:10.630 - 00:14:25.150

of respect for us, for, for the, for the strike. I was talk to her. I just have no idea, she also had a lot of respect for the strikers. She was a, she was, uh, well, she's a good person throw in the strike. I mean, she's

00:14:25.150 - 00:14:47.219

respecting us, uh, also she. She was a part of the strikers committee with Gloria Chavelo, uh, Carlos Hernandez, and myself and her Aurora Aurora Trujillo, she was from the, I mean Richards, but she was part of the Richard strikers Committee. There were two strikers committees, one

00:14:47.219 - 00:15:06.080

of them for Watson Canning and one of them from, uh, Richard Shos. Did you? Meet regularly once you, I mean not just the committee, but did you have big meetings or meetings with our with our strikers always in the union hall. Maybe, maybe it depends what's

00:15:06.080 - 00:15:19.599

going on. Sometimes we meet every day, even, even at the beginning like in November, yeah, yeah, and before that, nobody, I mean they don't want to let the use the union hall and you know what I did? We get our chairs from the union hall and

00:15:19.599 - 00:15:35.750

we meet in the parking lot. Did you actually get thrown out of the hall for these meetings? No, no, no, only. I remember Gloria was talking about this when I interviewed her on the radio, I should have brought the CD with me so well, no, well,

00:15:35.979 - 00:15:54.780

the people I mean can drink alcohol, but the people I mean buy or you know, beers outside the union, but the union never provides, I mean like alcoholic beverages, and sweet bread or you know. And you know they will go rest from the from the picket

00:15:54.780 - 00:16:08.880

line, they will go rest there, you know, and stuff like that. Gloria, I think I read something that you said in an interview a while back where you said we really when we started we didn't know what we were doing we just had to kind of

00:16:08.880 - 00:16:26.210

learn as we went along. What kind of things did you learn? I mean, what did you have to learn how to do? I mean, uh. Well, you know, it's, it's like, like people expected, you know, so much from you, and then, you know, all you had

00:16:26.210 - 00:16:45.539

was the anger. I think it's the anger that makes you, you know, learn everything. You worry about letting people down, you mean? Oh yes, yeah. Were there ever times when when people would get frustrated because they felt the strikers community was not on top of things?

00:16:46.099 - 00:17:03.150

Well, they're yelling us. They're jelling us. What are you guys doing? especially, I mean, everybody was found out second job at work. Gloria and myself for around the 18 months, we never work only a week. We applied to work in Gilroy in the tomato company with

00:17:03.150 - 00:17:16.494

my union. So you know what the people telling us, Oh, what are you guys doing? You guys find a Yeah, oh, I expect that you guys defending us. Hey, what's going on? But Chavelo, Carlos, and all the rest of the committee working. It's up to her

00:17:16.494 - 00:17:33.800

and I. They jo working. They didn't wanted. Well, Chavela was, uh, he was a car mechanic, wasn't he? Wouldn't he like take cars apart in his front yard and stuff to make a little extra money, and you were, you were getting some, some. Some rent from

00:17:33.800 - 00:17:50.689

people was it, you know, my rentals, my little rentals that get me through the strike because I had 3 kids. I had 4 kids to support. So how did you get? Well, I have a nice family. They they supported me and my aunt, you know, well,

00:17:50.699 - 00:18:06.130

but I'd be responsible, you know, strike too, yeah, yeah, but she's, I mean, retired because she's, uh, during the 65 years old period, and I told her and my brother, we talked to her and said, uh-huh, and also she's broke her hand there and I said,

00:18:06.180 - 00:18:20.239

no, you're not gonna, she says not going to pass trespassing the picket line. So she's applied for the retirement and I always leave off the heels of the country, you know, and we don't pay the rent, so that's what happened. So she supported me and she's

00:18:20.239 - 00:18:37.165

helping me so I was like on your aunts Team. Oh well, yeah, and I make my my money she doesn't have any kids. And also I told you I decided to go to work if you'd like to go to school, even if she's not impatient, she

00:18:37.165 - 00:18:54.079

supported me, so I'm very lucky person during that time, but I see that people, my other, I mean coworkers, they just lose their homes, they just lose everything, they're just looking for a job. They lost their homes. I know who who lost their home who had

00:18:54.079 - 00:19:11.689

to leave town. Your brother actually went back to Mexico, yeah, he went back his property right after the election, yeah, and then he, he came back with the boat and then he went back to Mexico again. He stayed he stay he's now in Sacramento. He lives

00:19:11.689 - 00:19:34.890

in. Mhm. You should, uh, give me his phone number. I'll look him up. I don't know, he's got a memory. I don't know Pedro Ramos, you know, he's you know they're not Ramos and then back they go south and then came and I, I know they're

00:19:34.890 - 00:19:48.640

here because I saw not too long ago. Yeah, I tried calling that the number a couple of times and I left a message. And they didn't call back, you know, I mean, the message was in so you know, uh, if I can reach him while I

00:19:48.640 - 00:20:10.329

work, you know, in the facility, yeah, Falcon trade, yeah, he's worked there, but I don't know, maybe I can ask their sister or Chaito uh-huh she lives I mean the corner right there, yeah, but maybe can find, I'm in contact with him. Well, I remember, uh,

00:20:10.380 - 00:20:27.020

I don't think I ever met her during the strike, but I remember she was interviewed, um. I don't know if it was in unity or whether it was in, but Socorro. Oh, she was, she was evicted, wasn't she? Oh yeah, do you want to talk to

00:20:27.020 - 00:20:45.040

her? Sure. I don't know if you get that phone number or maybe you can find her. I called you and uh we'll let you know because I saw her once in a while. Oh, you guys have my phone number. You just called me. I had to

00:20:45.040 - 00:20:55.989

call my house and tell my mommy, give me the Mary can get the I mean the workers and meet here, but we need to, I mean recruit and maybe next time when you come by. Here organize something and bring people here. I don't know he's going

00:20:55.989 - 00:21:13.510

to be here for the whole week, yeah, but this is, I mean, hard for me or I mean to look for people and yeah, because not everybody I see everybody, but I know people come by come by the union, yeah, well, that's that's the way to

00:21:13.510 - 00:21:43.040

go. I do. I took your advice and I got a hold of, uh, Delia, um, uh, the high school teacher, yeah, and she said she will try to set something up with her students on, um, uh, no, uh, Delia. Um, on, on Saturday she said she

00:21:43.040 - 00:21:56.219

would arrange for me Delia Mendez. Oh, actually, well, she said, yeah, no, she was, she was the one she was in TDU yeah and she was the one who was interviewed actually. In the San Francisco Examiner right after the strike. First she apologized because her English

00:21:56.219 - 00:22:12.900

wasn't better and then she actually was very She spoke very well, you know, it was a very, yeah, she was very powerful in this interview and it was a good reporter. He took down everything she said. Um, I hadn't seen that article, so I, you know,

00:22:13.140 - 00:22:31.489

until. Oscar called me up and said you should interview this woman. I met her on the street. She wrote some articles for them. I wrote for Unity. I wrote for Ford sometimes too, but not about the strike. I was the labor editor of Unity during the

00:22:31.489 - 00:22:44.949

strike, so mainly as people who were down here would send articles up and then I would, you know, get them ready to print. But there was other stuff going on too. I was trying to follow the Hormel strike, it was a Hormel. It was a greyhound,

00:22:45.040 - 00:23:03.060

and there was like there was so much and you were the ones who won, you know, so and I, I, I always thought that. You know, Hormel got so much publicity. It was because, you know, diamond walnuts that wasn't Australia the same time than us, and

00:23:03.060 - 00:23:19.660

then there's probably 3 or 4 years ago. Yeah, these are all the contracts. There's more than 20 years. Well, they were, they were very. Media savvy, the Hormel people, they, they hired somebody, you know, Ray Rogers who knew how to get attention. It's kind of like

00:23:19.660 - 00:23:36.609

the Michael Moore of his day. I hadn't thought of that, but he knew how to get on national TV. He was very good at it. But I think The problem they had was that they got into a fight with the union right off the bat and

00:23:36.609 - 00:23:55.729

it almost became bigger than the fight with the company. And I know you must have been tempted to do that too, but, but in the end, you know, the teams pretty much gave you whatever support you could expect from them. Um I, I talked to, I

00:23:55.729 - 00:24:09.949

don't know if Gloria told you. I talked to Alex. He bought alasa really for the better part of the day. I never had a chance to talk to him again because he died, but he told me all sorts of stuff that I didn't have a clue

00:24:09.949 - 00:24:22.250

about, about how they got the boycott going and how they were pulling money out of Wells Fargo. I mean, nobody knew what he was doing, I guess. He talked to you, didn't he, when he was here? Well, he's talking to us, but the people get, get

00:24:22.250 - 00:24:38.550

our anger that they don't wanna, they don't believe how far is the through the teamsters doing that for us because we've look, we have a strike, we have the city council fighting. We have international union fighting. We have no trusts. We're fighting with the supporters for

00:24:39.489 - 00:24:58.003

things fighting, so when. the trust, you know, the way the International Union treating us or the way that those um people like Richard King and Fred Heim and that people treating us, you know, that was awful. We have no trust. That's what happened. They're telling us

00:24:58.003 - 00:25:11.995

what happened with the boycott, but we don't believe nothing, Gloria. They're telling us what's going on with the boycott, but when nobody knows. Trust on them. I said, you're working for us or who's working for us? The only person they trust in us is what the

00:25:11.995 - 00:25:29.959

nit people, which Oscar, Cherie and the Chinese people, that people, it was more better than Santa Cruz, I mean people, better than Frank Barday better than Cruz Gomez, better than John Silver. The only good part that John Silver they filmed the movie for a strike. You

00:25:29.959 - 00:25:49.479

know, I finally saw that movie, you know, and then Oscar calls that I watched that movie, yeah, yeah, Oscar calls it that lying, but I mean, I, it made me angry, but he has so many tapes from that, from that, you know, you know, here again

00:25:49.479 - 00:26:03.000

it's like this is what it means to know what to do with the media. I mean, it's the movie is very well done. I mean it's, it's, it holds your attention, you know, it's got really exciting footage, you know, it's it's very well edited. It's just

00:26:03.000 - 00:26:23.339

that the content is, you know, bad and um. Frank Barna told me that he advised John Silver when he was making it, but I think actually Frank has a much better, more balanced view of things that came off in that movie. I mean at least he

00:26:23.339 - 00:26:40.020

recognizes everybody's contribution was important and that kind of thing. Yeah because you know they always strive, you know, uh, we sense our way that these people don't have any faith in the worker, you know, they, they thought, oh, we're gonna get this bunch of uh sheep

00:26:40.020 - 00:26:58.719

and, you know, guide them or whatever, you know, and the other, uh, and the other, you know, hand, Oscar's people gave us all the respect and, you know, let us make our decisions and, you know, help us however they could. I want to ask about one

00:26:58.719 - 00:27:17.869

thing that I didn't understand very well. I know that I guess on February 8th, there was a big meeting, I guess about 100, 150 people there. And both of you signed the call to the meeting. Joe Fay signed it. Espielia signed it. This is something I

00:27:17.869 - 00:27:30.949

didn't know anything about and I know that it ended badly because there was a demonstration and then the police broke it up and then a bunch of people went down on Main Street and started. Throwing rocks and the union got blamed for it but I was

00:27:30.949 - 00:27:50.869

brought up on charges. Yeah, but you know what the people from Joe Fay side is the one of them they started throwing rocks, yeah, and then always that people putting us in problems, so that people wants to really work. They were not even workers, they were

00:27:50.869 - 00:28:06.285

supporters, supporters, they were supporters, not. Yeah, not people. They're arresting our people because I was in front of a whole bunch of people. That people, they throw the stuff and they're running back. They're hiding. Well, I mean it was, that was awful. That was a lot

00:28:06.285 - 00:28:20.125

of mess. Gloria, I remember you made a good statement, I think, to the newspapers. I don't have it in front of me, but it was like, you know, people shouldn't be throwing rocks at store windows. They should be angry at, you know, at Watsonvilleanic, you know,

00:28:20.135 - 00:28:38.939

it doesn't. Um, not to be angry, but this is the wrong target, something like that. Um, yeah, but I wanted to ask how that, how and why that group got together was, was, was finally it was called Teamsters United Local 912 or something like that. And

00:28:38.939 - 00:28:57.949

how you, you too came to be involved with it when you didn't know how it was going to end. You mean the strikers not the strikers Committee, but that group that got together in February just before the Shah settlement. Um, I've got a Leaflet, you know,

00:28:58.020 - 00:29:13.660

it says unite at the top and it's signed by I think 12 people, um, strikers committee people, and then some people I think told me they were mainly TDU people. Well, there was a TDU people that was not our group. That was not our group. They're

00:29:13.660 - 00:29:30.349

using strikers committee people to make the flyers and then they call people under our names or under our group, but it was not us. They're using us you went to that first meeting. Where they had a couple 100 people there and and I guess what. That

00:29:30.349 - 00:29:45.219

broke down into different groups and somebody wrote the leaflet and somebody to chase. We never meet without people, no, no, no, we're not involved with people. They're using our names, but they never get involved with them. You went to that meeting though, both of you at

00:29:45.219 - 00:30:02.400

the at the veterans hall. Oh, when, when they have a ratifications for that. No, no, this is like in February. You weren't that the one of them that they're just using our names in the flyer, remember. And there was I think a big meeting, but whenever,

00:30:02.479 - 00:30:21.630

I mean. Never was there, I can probably dig out the uh the leaflet if that'll help you got it in here somewhere. Yeah, this is something that I didn't know about and didn't remember it at all. has a good brain. Well, he signed a leaflet too,

00:30:21.670 - 00:30:59.010

and I was, I was surprised because I think there was a lot of let me let me see if he know his signature. I know his chicken scratches. Hold on a minute. Oh boy. He that Yeah, this is the leaflet. Oh no. Oh, no, no, no,

00:30:59.069 - 00:31:20.079

it was not us. Oh no, no, I was not Gloria. They put Chavelo's name, but I don't think Chavelo proved that. Oh no. Mm. No, that was TDU people, they're using our names. I mean, I, I was surprised when I saw that because I knew there

00:31:20.079 - 00:31:34.689

was a lot of bad feeling. I have, I mean, so many flyers, but I don't have that one. It was because it's not. And that was our new life to a strike. Well, Gloria, you did go and and testify for Joe at his hearing, you know,

00:31:34.890 - 00:31:54.920

about, about what happened. What will happen and what year was when Gloria testified with Joe was, I guess Joe was brought up in charges right after Sergio and Leon Ellis charged him with, you know. They wanted him disciplined by the union because of his part in

00:31:54.920 - 00:32:21.640

that demonstration on February 17th, you know, the rainstorms and um. I guess they were the Joint counsel 7 had a hearing and this. The meeting where where they formed the the striker committee, not the strikers, no, this is, this is February. This was about you and

00:32:21.640 - 00:32:42.500

I was not there, not even, no. Well, you, you did say Gloria, um, at the um. When you testified at Joe's hearing, this would have been in June of '86, right before Jesse Jackson came. That's when they finally got around to putting him on trial, and

00:32:42.500 - 00:32:57.290

you said Joe didn't organize this. He didn't run it, you know, it was like we didn't have any leaders. Everybody, everybody who participated, you know, Joe didn't tell us what to do. In fact, he didn't even show up after the first meeting. Um, and we were,

00:32:57.800 - 00:33:14.189

we were mad at him because, you know, we were all supposed to be working together on this. Um, so. I don't know. I don't know how to, you know, I'm not trying to put you on the spot. I'm just trying to find out what happened, yeah,

00:33:16.030 - 00:33:32.819

because it seems to me like. TDU is trying to. They had been very isolated, you know, after the strikers committee was set up, and they were trying to make another effort to work with people a little bit more. And it sounds like they weren't terribly successful,

00:33:32.880 - 00:33:47.260

but there was one big meeting. It also sounds like people were worried after, you know, in January that the season was going to start up again. And you know there was a lot of negotiation going on at Shaw. People didn't know if they were going to

00:33:47.260 - 00:34:09.479

settle and people wanted something to happen. And I think this this transcript that I just read yesterday, you, you made some of those points that you know, you thought it was necessary to get things going again. So we had this meeting. Um, No, no, no. We

00:34:09.479 - 00:34:26.969

get a lot of meetings, yeah, but not in this one, not on this one, these people are using, I mean those names. Maybe they meet with them, uh, that's what puzzled me, you know, but you never, never approved. I mean, yeah, did Joe approach either of

00:34:26.969 - 00:34:46.070

you about this. Did they, I mean. No, no, no, no, just the beginning and at no point did he come and say, you know, we, we really should be working like people like uh Joe Fay, but then they started to, to see, you know, that he

00:34:46.070 - 00:35:08.820

was part of another uh another group, you know. It was like that. It's, it's, it's very, it's funny, um. Yeah, it was, yeah, it was at the veterans. They're using the people names. I said to Gloria and Chavela was not part of the TDU members, I

00:35:08.820 - 00:35:29.260

mean the TDU group, but the other the rest of the people, they're all TDU except except to Gloria and Chavelo, not even Carlo's name, not even my name is in there. Armando Gloria, I mean. Guillermina was part of the TDU but after the strike, no, she's

00:35:29.260 - 00:35:51.169

she's angry. She's angry with everybody except to the strikers committee. I remember one day when before going, I mean hunger strike, she's waiting for us for the negotiations committee. Everybody was waiting for us. It was like uh. Uh, in March 1987 when I came very late

00:35:51.169 - 00:36:04.830

for negotiations, that negotiations was the one that they want to take over and and they begin to show up at the joint council 7 meeting, and there was a lot of media and things like that and then they people that they know that I sold the

00:36:04.830 - 00:36:28.659

strike. They think that the strike is committed. They sold the strike. There was Lydia, Carlos, Chavelo, Gloria, and Antonio Masil and myself came very late. You know, Joe Fahy driving us. No, he was with us and Joe Fay and Leon Elvis, but when I get here

00:36:28.659 - 00:36:44.310

like 1 o'clock or 2 o'clock in the morning, it was Jin and there and says, Well, we have no choice. You know, this is a company offer. To us, you know, and we tell the people that what happened in the negotiations. There was nothing, not all

00:36:44.310 - 00:37:01.790

for nothing. The only thing that David Gill telling us, my view we could take the company and that was the first very first talk with David Gill. So the people They already know that what happened, Joey, he probably called I mean their group was Cruz Gomez

00:37:01.790 - 00:37:15.310

and their group weighing us like a mulchers and yelling us. How can you guys selling us our contract? We're not going to go in because you guys pushing us. I mean, the contract said, wait a minute, we don't have no contract. What's wrong with you? And

00:37:15.370 - 00:37:31.270

I remember very wellermina Ramirez that she's telling us, Oh, you guys strike this, don't be afraid to talk. telling us the truth. And then Cruz Gomez, she's going in front, I don't have the flyer, but I have, I have with me that accusing us and you

00:37:31.270 - 00:37:48.100

know, and says, you know what, this is what happened and blah blah blah, and I said, Chabelo, he's come walking put in front and there close to there and says, almost. Chabelo grabbed her and pulling her out of the union hall, and I said, Chabelo, don't

00:37:48.100 - 00:38:08.399

touching her. I'm pulling her. And I said, you better go out of here. And you know, Gloria says, wait a minute, we'll say something. I don't want non-supporters here in the union hall. Please walk out and uh in our committee, uh, no, we said this meeting

00:38:08.399 - 00:38:26.989

is going to be for the strikers. We don't want Oscar. We don't want, we don't want, yeah, and the people walked out. We don't want no, this is the last meeting and then Oscar was the first one to walk out and everybody. Yeah, and the people,

00:38:27.189 - 00:38:41.909

no, they wanted to stay in the state, remember, yeah, but that night, but that night that I'm talking, Gloria is when Cruz Gomez wait for us and Fidelia Carrizosa yelling us and I said, shut up. You're not gonna yell at us. You better walking out. If

00:38:41.909 - 00:38:54.800

you're not, I'm gonna kick you out of here. And then the other people was Sharia, it was Oscar, there was Soledad, there was Steve. And then those guys walk out and Cruz don't want it and then she's yelling us and I said, shut up, you mad

00:38:54.800 - 00:39:09.969

Cruz. You better go out of here and she's walked out and that's why when everybody was, I mean, take the resolutions and says, Well, what can I do it? So maybe we got a hunger strike because we do so many things that it was before that

00:39:09.969 - 00:39:35.350

was on March 1987 before the strike was done because in 1997, 1987, the strike was over. I do remember um. was arrested at one point right before the settlement at the bank. No, he was fighting with, not in the bank. He's they're arresting him in the

00:39:35.350 - 00:39:54.030

4th street in front of the personal office. They're arresting him in there because somebody's getting an argument in Chabelo. He's not even saying any words the husband of the owner of the restaurant. He was trying was yelling at us, you know, oh you guys are are

00:39:54.030 - 00:40:10.860

because he wanted us scares in there eating and then they were scared to go because of us, you know, and then he started a confrontation with Chabelo and was arrested the same day arresting Thovelo and then the same day arresting Sergio Lopez and Richard, I mean

00:40:10.860 - 00:40:32.550

Sergio Lopez and Thovelo they arresting together the same day, remember. Um About I, I know it was that that whole period you wanted to go pick up the bank. And the teamsters didn't necessarily want you to do that. No, no, no, no, no. They wanted us

00:40:32.550 - 00:40:56.449

to do anything, but you did it anyway. I mean without permission, what permission anywhere we went to the police station and started yelling at the at the cops over there and. Oh, there was a big confrontation. No, no, I'm lucky. And the people, the people tell

00:40:56.449 - 00:41:07.969

Gloria that I'm not, I'm not going to strike because something is going on with me. I say, hell with you. I'm, I'm not have a chance to go to sleep. They want me to keep the scs. They want me to be in a picket line. They

00:41:07.969 - 00:41:24.645

want to be all over the place. This is a good thing they're never arresting me, but they put me charges. Gloria and I, I was the last ones. They put us charges like 395 charges against Gloria and us. The other people that was arresting their charges

00:41:24.645 - 00:41:44.840

like for a group like 15 people and then leaving Gloria and us. Yeah, they were 395 charges against her and me. Was that like a lawsuit that the company filed, that wasn't the police that the police you were you were hurting their business, right? Yeah, and

00:41:44.840 - 00:42:05.060

that's, I mean. What they more consul spent something like $5 million on these wires you know to do stuff like that, um, yeah, but because I'm running and I'm back at $8 an hour and Gloria, you know when they're arresting Gloria when she's wearing tennis shoes.

00:42:06.199 - 00:42:20.850

What what was that? You know what happened when the they are arresting Gloria when she's not wearing high heels because when the shoes wear the high heels, she's run more fast when the shoes wear tennis. I've heard yeah, yeah, and I told her, Gloria, do you

00:42:20.850 - 00:42:36.715

know I'm curious. Everybody says that, you know what happened with Gloria? No, they're only arresting her when she's wear the thingy shoes because she could run when she wear the high heels. He never arrested her. Well, you did say, you know, when you were testifying at

00:42:36.715 - 00:42:51.560

Joint Council 7 that they asked if you were arrested on February 17th, and you said no, I was arrested two days later. You didn't, you didn't elaborate. um, what, what, what can you tell me about that arrest? Do you remember it? Throwing rocks at the s,

00:42:51.600 - 00:43:06.520

yeah, yeah, was this in front of the plant or in front of the plane and then you were on the side of the plane, you know, it was on uh Walker Street in. Do you know how many people all in all were arrested during the strike?

00:43:08.469 - 00:43:29.280

I say more than 50. I just take the, I mean, two persons. The first one that gets arrested and they put him in a in the jail is her ex-husband Amador. They're keeping him in those 18 months and then after that they're arresting Jose Lopez and

00:43:29.280 - 00:43:48.014

Antonio Maciia, but they're not for a long time. I think Jose stayed for like a week or something like that he disappeared you, yeah, he's disappeared from here. I don't know even Antonio Masil they disappear from here. I see Antonio Mail is here. I don't know

00:43:48.014 - 00:44:13.159

they leave their neighbors. I know, but it's still here, but I know Jose Lopez, he's disappearing from here. Well it disappear, um. Carlos actually was arrested the day that you settled the strike. All the time they're arresting him. I don't know how many, but every time

00:44:13.159 - 00:44:27.010

they got him on assault and battery or something like that or you know some some felony, you know, I mean it wasn't just like throwing a rock. It was like they made it sound like a hit right after you voted to settle the strike and everybody

00:44:27.010 - 00:44:54.360

was celebrating, um. Well, after After the um Um, what happened on After Shaw settled. For either of you In the meeting where the shaw workers took their vote. No, they don't get in because this is. There were some people from Shavela was actually leafleting. Oh, we,

00:44:55.189 - 00:45:09.110

I mean the flyers. I think I have a copy of the leaflet. Did the strikers committee put that out sort of urging to vote no, no. We never push the people, the only thing that I tell them, look at, it's our future, not only your future,

00:45:09.189 - 00:45:27.604

it's your your children's future, it's our future. Whatever your decision, but please wake up your mind. Don't break. I mean, don't run. Don't get inside, don't crawl. The picket line, but take your decision. Whatever the decision they take, we'll respect them whenever I mean all vote

00:45:27.604 - 00:45:46.030

no, make your own decision. No, but leave it alone, say please don't hurry now. Whatever your decision, but is your future is your kids' futures. It's our kids, so they all, I mean strike his future. But people at Watsonville County, I mean, did feel angry, angry,

00:45:46.659 - 00:46:03.100

angry after when people vote. Well, it's one thing that Cheri says it's like that there was a tremendous frustration Watsonvillean people when Shaw settled, you know, and there was a lot of anger in there and some resentment. Um, Did any of them continue to come to

00:46:03.100 - 00:46:21.699

your picket lines, or no, I mean Aurora Aurora, yeah, yeah, but the other people for Aurora she was, she lived right there, right across the the plant. Every time she walked out her front door, she was bus it was there it was, yeah, the people back

00:46:21.699 - 00:46:40.510

to work and then they went on forgiving us. They not even pay the $5 I mean. Assessment said something about that because the only persons they just pay the $5 until when the strike was over Green Giant people. They are very great people that people, they're

00:46:40.510 - 00:46:58.020

giving us, I mean, food away, you know, whatever is in their hands, they're supporting us. Yeah, but the other people was Green Giant special, you think? Yeah, because that people they have a conscience. So what happened with Giant different from the others. I don't know because

00:46:58.020 - 00:47:15.419

they don't want that people keep paying the the $5 I mean strike fund or $5 a strike assessment. It's the only ones they just keep paying because other people was on the strike and they don't want helping us. They don't wanna helping us put this on

00:47:15.419 - 00:47:44.040

hold. Well Yeah, I, I don't know when when you. When you went to testify for Joe didn't want to discipline him or what happened when you went to testify at Joe's hearing. Was it because you just didn't want the teamsters to discipline him? Uh, well you

00:47:44.040 - 00:48:06.909

didn't want him. Making, making it look like he, he'd run a whole demonstration or anything like that. I mean, what, what, what made you turn this on? I was just asking, Gloria, um, what made you decide to testify for Joe at Joint Counsel 7 when they

00:48:06.909 - 00:48:21.699

were. I don't have any idea. Maybe you go by yourself without people, maybe with Joey, maybe you go with Steve. I don't know. Dave actually has some notes he took at the meeting. I was there and and Joe says at the beginning of the meeting Gloria

00:48:21.699 - 00:48:36.189

was the only one who turned out to support me, something like that, you know, I didn't know I was referring to it and I got the copy of this hearing and I read the transcript and there you were, you know. And they accusing him they were

00:48:36.189 - 00:48:49.830

accusing him of using the name of Lo 912 and the Teamster logo on a leaflet and he didn't have a right to do it and you know they just rapped his knuckles. They didn't really punish him. I think Chuck Mat did not really want him to

00:48:49.830 - 00:49:03.959

be punished, but they had to do something to show that the union didn't want any part of the violence, that they weren't responsible for it. The only union officer who had any connection to it was Joe, and they were punishing him, you know that was that

00:49:03.959 - 00:49:18.310

was the way the hearing went down, but you could kind of tell reading it that, I mean, Leon Ellis was furious and he was just cussing Joe out right and left, up and down and uh during when he was testifying, but Chuck was trying to get

00:49:18.310 - 00:49:29.830

everybody calmed down, you know, uh, let's just stick to what the charges are here. And then at the end he said, Joe, you have to realize you're a union officer now. You can't do the kinds of things you can do as a rank and filer. because

00:49:29.830 - 00:49:45.590

he was a a union representative, but he was a TDU on the other side. Yeah, well, I mean, I think what Chuck was saying to him is if you want to join TDU and raise hell, that's OK, you know you're a rank and file member, you

00:49:45.590 - 00:49:57.699

can do whatever you want to do. But once you become a union officer, then the union has liability for things that you do, and you have to make very sure you don't do anything that would compromise the union legally. I know you're new on the job.

00:49:57.750 - 00:50:14.399

You've only been doing this for a couple of months, you know, so just, you know, that was the whole approach that he took. He was very fair, you know, um. You know how nice he comes across, you know, to talk to him, um. But I was

00:50:14.399 - 00:50:28.000

struck by the fact you went, you took the trouble to go to San Francisco to speak, you know, for him and just say he had nothing to do with what happened, you know, but you also said what happened was us, you know, you know, Joe is

00:50:28.000 - 00:50:43.050

nothing special, you know, he didn't even have to you know. Uh-huh. Yeah. You didn't, did you know any of the people who were actually arrested on Main Street? You mentioned that one of the people who signed the leaflet was the one who was throwing rocks, and

00:50:50.560 - 00:51:02.770

I don't know if you're at liberty to tell me who it was, but the supporters supporters they were students. They were. You know, they were just supporters, you know, let's see, um, the TDU people here, yeah, remember that march that you hit to Gloria and Shavelos

00:51:02.770 - 00:51:21.110

not TDU, but the other res, they're all TDU. Let's see 1234 Imina wasn't on the strikers committee, but she was. She was on the strikers, but they call her TDU, but she was. No, I mean she was she was really down on TDU she was really

00:51:21.110 - 00:51:39.620

disappointed. Um, no, she will see, you know, she. She didn't let anybody use her. Mhm yeah, yeah, she was, I think, one of the first people I met, you know, I went to Northern California. Now she's a social worker. Yeah, yeah. Do you know how to

00:51:39.620 - 00:51:55.040

reach her? Uh, might be at the county building. Maybe I'll stop by and ask them and get out their business card and I will call you here in Watsonville. Yeah, she's worked for the county. I would love to talk to her, you know, I think she

00:51:55.040 - 00:52:09.129

could. Talk from the point of view of somebody who had actually been in TDU and she might even be on the phone, yeah, you know, I tried looking her up and I, I on the internet and there's a mea Ramirez's listed, but she's 37 years old,

00:52:09.219 - 00:52:27.510

so I know that's not that's not the same one. Unless she has a daughter with the same name, has a son, son. Yeah, well, I'll, I'll get all this information for you and I pass around to Gloria. Yeah, I mean, um, about maybe I can call

00:52:27.510 - 00:52:43.489

her. I want to get their business card. I'm gonna have a meeting for the county. People next week and I will ask him for her. Yeah, well, I'm so you're meeting with the county then yeah that would be great and you know I, I, I can

00:52:43.489 - 00:52:59.530

come back for next trip when you make your next trip, I just let them know and now we're recruiting people. We'll have a meeting here if I, yeah, I would like that very much. I mean, I, I um. You know, the thing for me is I've

00:52:59.530 - 00:53:16.820

talked to all the people who are like spokespeople, yeah, uh, now, um. People I don't think I've talked to are like just rank and file strikers, and I think so much of the story it's just like what people had to go through to survive those 18

00:53:16.820 - 00:53:34.649

months, what kind of hardships they faced, how they dealt with them, you know, what kind of support they had from their family, you know, that kind of thing. That's that's really they used to get a box of food every month, twice a month a month $30.

00:53:35.500 - 00:53:55.340

$50 they deducting $12 union dues and we pay the tax. It was $40. They were deducting our union dues that $15. No, I remember $55 a week. No, no, Sergio was upset about that too. Oh, he was upset. It was outrageous that everybody blamed surgery, you

00:53:55.340 - 00:54:11.550

know. People, you know, this place that I have right now that was Gloria seat right now. I'm sitting here, you know, because that's her, he didn't want to take over, you know, now I telling her a couple a couple of hours ago about what's going on

00:54:11.550 - 00:54:17.110

in the transition. They call me names, they call me on this and that, blah blah blah, but you know what? I'm the one.