00:00:00.009 - 00:00:32.830

OK. Fuck man. Well, Um You came to Washington to go right after Charlotte solidarity on October 6th, um, what happens? What's your calendar? Well, what I remember, you know, it's been a while, we came over here at that time with, um, um, Manuel Diaz's mother, Rena

00:00:32.830 - 00:00:51.639

Diaz, and I brought my two sons. And they gave us a contact to uh come and see uh which was uh Guillermina's house. We went over there and you know, she took us to the union. When uh we went to the union hall and there was

00:00:51.639 - 00:01:06.000

a lot of strikers there, and I asked him, can you take us to the picket line? And she said, Sure, but you better watch out. He goes, because the cops are really, really mean. Uh, they had, they had marked the lines on the street where you

00:01:06.000 - 00:01:19.989

cannot cross. So as soon as we went down to the picket line and we crossed the line and a cop came, you know, and told us to get out. So we went back to the union hall which was around the corner. And I was meeting the

00:01:19.989 - 00:01:39.330

workers, talking to them. Bre and I were just talking to the workers. And uh we asked Diervina, so who's the leadership here? And that's when she said, uh, Joey and Karen Fay. And I said, we, I, oh, OK. I didn't know that, right? So we're waiting,

00:01:39.410 - 00:01:55.620

we're talking to people, you know, all of a sudden your face in character he drive up. Permina comes to them and says, uh, Joe, I want you to meet some supporters that just came from San Francisco, and he just ignored her, ignore us, we just went

00:01:55.620 - 00:02:11.350

inside the union, like we didn't even exist, you know, so interesting. Uh, we kept asking, who's the leadership, you know, who's the leadership? And you know, that's really where they weren't, they were saying anything, they were just saying them. And then I think I met, I

00:02:11.350 - 00:02:28.000

met Sergio, uh, that day. I think I met him and uh I remember talking to him and, and saying to him, wow, you know, I mean, I guess this is your time to be a leader here, you know. And so he was, he was very polite

00:02:28.000 - 00:02:41.699

and. And uh so they, you know, we don't, we didn't see no leadership or anything, and, and we knew that the rally was gonna happen next day. So I kept on asking with Reina. So what are you guys meeting, you know, who is the security? How

00:02:41.699 - 00:02:58.380

are you putting all the logistics? Who is in charge? And they said, well, Tomorrow, you know, it's gonna be a, a meeting for the, for the rally and um just, you know, barbecue's in charge. I said, really? I said, OK, you know. So we stayed around

00:02:58.380 - 00:03:15.240

and I remember going to dinner and then they, they, uh, a strikers' home, they took us in which they were very nice, um. We spent the night there early in the morning next day, we got up and we went to the park and we kept asking,

00:03:15.320 - 00:03:34.559

so who's the leadership, you know, here's, you know, you have all these cops and we kept asking, where is the meeting? finally we, we see barbecue come in. Earky calling a group of people and um you know, he, he said, well, you know, we're just gonna

00:03:34.559 - 00:03:49.669

form a line and uh you know, and I don't remember what else was talking, but You know, I was like, that's the leadership for the rally, and I remember, you know, with, because with Raya, we were going like, what's going on, you know. So Ray and

00:03:49.669 - 00:04:03.149

I, you know, since we had met some of the strikers, told them, you know, listen, I got, you know, we told them, you know, this is doesn't look very, very well organized, um, you know, can you guys, each of you guys get 10 people, and there

00:04:03.149 - 00:04:17.549

were about 10 of them. Guillermina helped bringing them together and so Guillermina went. And got about 10 people, and those 10 people recruited about another 10 people, so we had about 100 of them and uh and what we said by that time, you know, we're getting

00:04:17.549 - 00:04:33.380

them organized, then the buses came from San Francisco. And when the buses came, you know, I remember that was our supporters and I told them the situation and I go this is pretty chaotic, you know, it's like there's really no, no leadership here, you know. And

00:04:33.380 - 00:04:49.299

so what we did was get all our volunteers and incorporate them, and all we could do at that time said, what we're gonna do is have, you know, uh, 111 line protect the workers from the cops, you know. So here are the cops and here would

00:04:49.299 - 00:05:05.899

be the striker's line that will protect them, you know, because we couldn't, you know, we couldn't do nothing else. We didn't you know, there was nothing and um. That I remember, OK. So what we did was that we got all our volunteers together with 100 workers

00:05:05.899 - 00:05:21.010

that those other workers recruited and we were able to build a barrier between the tactical squad and, and, and, and the line of the workers. So that's, that's what happened and that's how the rally, you know, we began to go to the march. That was the

00:05:21.010 - 00:05:41.170

beginning of us being introduced to the workers. The same day, I think it's when. Because, uh, Manuel Diaz, uh, had taken out Gloria somewhere. They had gone to speak somewhere. And on that day of the rally, uh, I think it's when, when, uh, Gloria came back,

00:05:41.579 - 00:05:58.130

she was back from, from the, uh, I think from a speeching engagement that she was, and, uh, I remember that that the rally started. And there was a lot of cops, man, a lot of cops, and there were a helicopter and the whole works, man, and

00:05:58.130 - 00:06:11.290

we marched, we marched, um, you know, to downtown and we went to the, I don't know we went to the, I don't know if we marched to downtown, but we were marching, and we went to to the two plans, OK, you know, OK, and there was

00:06:11.290 - 00:06:29.119

no problem, nothing, there was nothing. And then we came back and there was like a little rally, you know, in the park, and then it was over, OK. By that time, Manuel Diaz, he was here already, and Manuel Diaz, um, had talked to some of the

00:06:29.119 - 00:06:46.779

workers already and since the workers were impressed, some of the workers were impressed with how we had, you know, uh, um, in a sense, introduced ourselves to them by helping them in the security because really there was no really security that I remember. Um, there were

00:06:46.779 - 00:07:02.970

a few people that bought it he had, but that wasn't, you know, for a big rally. And um We didn't go back. I think, I think Reyna went back and, and, uh, and, and I think that, uh, uh, I remember, I remember because I had my

00:07:02.970 - 00:07:21.089

kids, I think I took them back. But I came back and, and, uh, Manuel started talking, you know, with, with, um, some of the strikers because he met with Gloria and he had some relationship with some of them and the question was who is in charge?

00:07:21.160 - 00:07:37.890

Who is in charge? And they kept saying it was Joey, it was Boy, but you know we kept saying. You know, you need a leadership of the workers, you know, all the workers, um, and what happened was that, uh, you know, based when I met Chabedo.

00:07:38.609 - 00:07:55.040

Uh, I met Gloria and I met some other people. I met Cuca and because we kept saying to them, you know, you know, Manuel especially kept saying you need to establish, you know, the strikers to be the leaders, not this French, you know, whites, you know,

00:07:55.350 - 00:08:07.980

you need, you need, you need to be. And so they set up a meeting, uh, at a house and we went over there and, uh, Manuel, you know, I was just, because I for me I was just learning. I never been in this kind of stuff.

00:08:08.769 - 00:08:25.970

Uh, Manuel was doing the main, the main leader leading the, the whole discussions and what he kept pushing and insisting was that the strikers needed to take the leadership. The strikers needed to have, and he helped them walk them through. To where they, he walked them

00:08:25.970 - 00:08:42.020

to the point of calling a meeting to have an election of the strikers to select their striking committee and that happened in a couple of days, you know, and then the fighting, the meeting happened and the meeting happened in Asuncion church. They were able to be

00:08:42.020 - 00:09:05.440

the church over there. And in Asuncion church is where, you know, where the committee began to to develop that they had elections and uh there's where the the strikers committees came out and they were leaders from both plans from Shaws as well as Norcal. Two questions.

00:09:06.169 - 00:09:20.229

Um, one of them is Johnny had a bit, the, I guess Aurora trivial was from Shaw and there was a few other people who show on that committee. Did they stay active in the strikers committee after Shaw settled? Oh, OK, that's, you know, that's a big

00:09:20.229 - 00:09:38.405

jump. I mean, after the Shaws, uh, she stayed active. Oh no, yeah, there's some other people from Shaw's, you know, they stayed active, but a group, a big chunk of them. To go, you know, and part of a leadership that was in the strikers left and

00:09:38.405 - 00:09:59.080

even in the strikers committee itself as he went and developed started developing some of them left, OK, some of the some of the ones that have been elected, uh, for different reasons. Henry, uh, what's his name Henry. Oh, I, I think, you know, he's stayed around,

00:09:59.400 - 00:10:14.789

you know, Henry, I remember, yeah, he stayed around, but it was only a few, you know, of the committee that stay, they stayed active. Chavell told me actually that he was, you know, he was very good. He was on the committee, but then he left at

00:10:14.789 - 00:10:29.820

2 he said he thought it was when he became a union officer. So Chavell was thinking he might have been elected in November of '85, you know. Well, you know, I mean, I know that there was a big man elected, OK, a big committee elected all

00:10:29.820 - 00:10:49.950

the strikers and um. You know, there, the, the, the committee itself needed some leadership. OK, the strikers community need needed leadership. And that's where Manuel played a role, you know, Manuel and myself started playing a role, and that's how we began to meet. We began to

00:10:49.950 - 00:11:03.909

meet with Chabelo, with Gloria, with Cuca. Uh, there were a couple of more people, you know, they were, they were part of, um, the leading group, uh, for us to give them, you know, some, some, uh, help them out. What we did was to help them

00:11:03.909 - 00:11:20.309

out to develop them, and they were the ones that executed, you know, the leadership. At that point you weren't attempting to give any kind of direction to the thing. Not me, you know, I mean, I, you know, our main thing was we believe from day one

00:11:20.650 - 00:11:39.239

that the strikers had to be the leaders and we didn't think that outsiders, like including us, should be pretending to be the leaders, you know, and you know, and then one big issue that we brought in was the national question that this the majority. They were

00:11:39.239 - 00:12:00.219

Mexicano Latinos and that they, you know, that should, that should be a big part of the strike that here were mainly Latina women, mainly Latina women who were taking on this, this huge company. I want to, uh, run by something that you told me you. Uh,

00:12:00.460 - 00:12:20.869

he was very self-critical of the fact that. Um, You know, when, when Richarding kind of went off on his trunk and to, you know, after console betrayed. Uh, TDU sort of stepped into the leadership void and began acting as though they were the union, which in

00:12:20.869 - 00:12:36.590

fact they weren't, and you know he, he, he sees that as a terrible mistake. He said what we should have done is what eventually happened. We should have set up a strike or um. But he's also critical of the strikers committee because there were no mass

00:12:36.590 - 00:12:50.169

meetings after that first one where you know there were 500 people gathered at the uh at the church was it yeah and elected I said for several months went by and there were no more big meetings, but there were meetings all the time in the union,

00:12:50.270 - 00:13:08.804

yeah, I mean. I mean there were meetings every week. They were, they were meetings of the strikers call, OK. The union, the union call meetings, but the union, see what happened was that the, the strikers started taking, taking the lead, and they had to push the

00:13:08.804 - 00:13:28.650

union. But most of the meetings that took place were the strikers calling them, yeah, but they worked through the the the hall, so they weren't strikers were saying they were held in the hall. So they used the hall, but that it wasn't necessarily with the union

00:13:28.650 - 00:13:48.869

leaders, because the union leaders, uh, they began to shy away from the from the strikers. Gloria, when I interviewed her, said that the um I'm speaking a little loud because my voice has to carry Gloria said that um. They weren't happy when they started having these

00:13:48.869 - 00:14:04.169

meetings in the hall, but they couldn't very well stop it, you know, they didn't like it but they had, they had to put up with it. I mean was Ken around much at this point? No, I mean, he stayed around until the elections. Yeah. Before, you

00:14:04.169 - 00:14:22.809

know, doing all the time, you hardly saw him. He was so drunk, you know, and, um, no, when, when that's why elections, you know, developed and we started helping, uh, you know, to develop a slave workers. Yeah, there was a big march actually. I remember going

00:14:22.809 - 00:14:43.239

to it at the beginning of November, uh, and, um, that got a big crowd. And then the focus became on getting new leadership in there um. How is the people's wage assembled? And what kind of stuff it's late for the elections. Well, I mean, because we

00:14:43.239 - 00:15:00.794

were working, we were working with, with the service committee, man, we were working with Gloria Chavelo, you know, and our, our point was, you know, here's an opportunity for. Elections for workers to take over this local, you know, this is the time and it was the

00:15:00.794 - 00:15:22.179

workers themselves because we kept meeting. I mean, it's, you know, that the core of the, a core of the strikers committee kept meeting, OK, you know, with, you know, guidance of minority and providing the leadership. And we kept, you know, encouraged them to, to develop independently,

00:15:22.590 - 00:15:38.955

and it was through, you know, consulting with a group of workers that the strikers committee worked with that they were the ones that also came out, you know, recommending, you know, who should run. Because Armando, which was, you know, Armando was Gloria's brother, he was the

00:15:38.955 - 00:15:52.075

one that people said he would be the best to run. And then at the last minute he got cold feet or I don't know what will happen, you know. Alex explains that he talked him out of it. He said, you know, you and Sergio are both

00:15:52.075 - 00:16:10.789

good guys. I have confidence in both of you, but you're going to be red baited and it'll be much easier to get help from the international Syracuse in there than you. Yeah And you know, and, and something happened because all of a sudden Armando said. I'm

00:16:10.789 - 00:16:23.869

not running and people said some other stuff. I don't know, you know, but all of the time he's, you know, he's not running, so that he was our main candidate and because people felt that he had the respect of the leadership and that he would have

00:16:23.869 - 00:16:38.210

been, uh, a good leader. I remember talking to him and he felt, he felt cold feet because he said, you know, we never, I never done this, you know, and this is hard, but Manuel and the rest of us told him. Don't worry, man, we will

00:16:38.210 - 00:16:50.440

help you. You know, if you get in there, you will have the power to bring people in there. They can be your backup and support. But at the end, you know, it was, it was er who, uh, who ended up as the secretary treasurer and his

00:16:50.440 - 00:17:06.540

and his plan, and, uh, I mean the reason that why Gloria and And, uh, you know, Chabelo and the slave, I think Aurora was in there. I remember a couple more people. They were part of the slave, uh, and it was only Charedo who was able

00:17:06.540 - 00:17:21.699

to get the most votes. He became, you know, because in this level you have about 11 shy of win so well, but he won. OK. Oh yeah, that was the reason, you know, that was, OK, wait a minute, no Chabelo, no, no, no, no, no, let

00:17:21.699 - 00:17:41.680

me see, no Chabedo. Um, No, he did win. No, he won. He won. How did he get the job then? Uh, he ran after the s. OK, so OK, so in the first run, so we're saying that the first one he did not win. No, he

00:17:41.680 - 00:17:58.900

said he came close. OK. Then the second time, so when when was the second time? Uh, I said the day he gave me was 89. After the strike was over, after the strike was over, perhaps, I don't, I don't remember. Who knows better. He was elected.

00:17:59.400 - 00:18:19.369

He knows better because he got elected. Well, I mean he says he's on the details too, but. Um, One thing I noticed was that uh. TD you put out on these lists. And it's in the archives of San Francisco State where they. Basically put the knock

00:18:19.369 - 00:18:36.930

on both Sergio and Armando and you need to have strong relevant people on the executive board, uh, are these because these guys can't be, you know, to keep, to keep Armando and, and Sergio on whichever one of them wins, so they obviously did not see Armando

00:18:36.930 - 00:18:57.089

as, you know. You know any kind of improvement over. Well, yeah, remember, um. PU, right, you know, in that group, they have been here for a while. They were the ones that have been working with the people down here, you know, they were critical of, you

00:18:57.089 - 00:19:13.375

know, us, you know what I mean and us, Manuel Diaz, myself, and our supporters. They were critical of us coming in here and Because they felt they should be the leaders and what they failed to to see was that the workers, only a group of workers

00:19:13.375 - 00:19:24.660

that they worked with saw them as leadership, but the rest of the workers, they don't see them as leaders. Who did they work? They work, they work with uh. You know, well, I mean, yeah, I'm gonna work with them for a while, so I knew for

00:19:24.660 - 00:19:41.250

a while, OK, when she knew them, but it was mainly, um, um, I'm trying to remember some of the names and I don't remember. I don't remember the names, but they had a small group of workers that they, you know, that they rallied with them. They

00:19:41.250 - 00:19:57.329

picked up a lot of support in this case of this guy who felt his foreman in the bro, you know. Oh yeah, yeah, that was, uh, that was, yeah, yeah, yeah, Jupara, um, my and I met his daughter. She became one of the workers in my

00:19:57.329 - 00:20:16.880

council, you know, Juanpara, um, because they won the case, but you know, I mean, I'm trying to look at from, from, from where we were coming from. Because what we did, right, I mean we as supporters from the Bay Area, we came in and said, how

00:20:16.880 - 00:20:36.849

can we help you, man, and how can we, you know, support you guys? And that was her attitude. And these guys' attitude was, we're the leaders, OK? And so you have competition going inside of, you know, the barbecues and the veggies and the John Silver and

00:20:37.099 - 00:20:55.449

the guy Brown, I think from the Communist Party. And uh Cruz was kind of lady, you know, another woman, and they were, they, they have been here for a while and they felt like who are you guys coming from the outside and trying to, you know,

00:20:55.540 - 00:21:11.765

intervene in this. You know, and we kept saying we're not here to intervene. We're not here to take over. We're here to support the strike and support the strikers committee that was democratically elected, and that's what would happen, you know, and we had, as things went

00:21:11.765 - 00:21:29.420

on, you had this group of people, you know, you know, also doing their things, you know, and in some stuff, because the strikers committee started to developing the leadership. You know, people start seeing the strikers committee more as the leading body than this other group of

00:21:29.420 - 00:21:47.709

people, you know, and I think that and once you know, the striker committee started going out, they started going out the whole country, they started bringing news, they started collecting money, they started, you know, you know, also pushing the teamsters. It was more the striers committee

00:21:47.709 - 00:22:06.719

had more credibility. To push the teamsters than than they did because you know in a certain way people looked at them, look at, you know, the Joe Fay and Carol Fay and and Cruz and and Bartiing all of them, they still look at them as supporters,

00:22:07.050 - 00:22:27.550

but they started to recognize more Gloria, Chabelo, Bucalora, that group of people as being the leaders. How conscious do you think? Uh, People. On the line were like these tensions. I don't think that they were that much. I think there was more among some of the

00:22:27.550 - 00:22:48.069

active people, you know, the people that they work with. And but with that, I mean, I remember that our group of people, they, to a certain way they were, they were upset, you know, they were upset that um the role that Joe and Karen and Barty,

00:22:48.859 - 00:23:05.829

uh, they felt that they always, they always wanted to tell them what to do, you know, and that's what they didn't like. I was very angry after solid. with unity which really didn't mince words, and she had worked with surprised me so much because she was

00:23:05.829 - 00:23:26.180

one of their, you know, because she saw that it was like condescending, you know, it was like, um, you know, I'm trying to remember that. Uh, you know, they just they started seeing how on the one side, this group of people that they call them outsiders.

00:23:26.900 - 00:23:44.410

We're opening up all these avenues, man. They were opening up all these doors, you know, nationwide, you know, press wise, you know, and then locally here, we were providing leadership to them. We were, and it wasn't like, you know, we're gonna tell you what to do.

00:23:44.449 - 00:23:59.055

It was like. The develop for them to be the leaders and that was and that's I think what what they saw is different that we didn't say we're gonna guide you, we're gonna lead you while barbecue and facing all of them were like we are the

00:23:59.425 - 00:24:12.329

and then you know I mean I yeah I did K Silver in his film, but a lot of all they did was do that, you know, they went around and they filmed everything and and I mean eventually I mean. Even though it's a lying film, but

00:24:12.329 - 00:24:22.650

at least, you know, now I haven't seen it recently, OK. They had a show a few weeks ago. Oh yeah, they can show it. Oh, they still show it on TV all the time. I haven't, like I said, I haven't seen it since the since the

00:24:22.650 - 00:24:32.609

first time when I saw it when we went to see it, when they 1st 1st threw it out and we were upset, we come out of it and we go, What a bunch of liars, man. And if you don't, if you don't know nothing about the

00:24:32.609 - 00:24:47.430

strike. But on the other side, what the stripers have told me now, they go at least there's a few of us. Because they didn't know a lot of that, you know, little incident that was going on, but for Gloria, for Cuca, you know, uh, and just

00:24:47.430 - 00:25:03.180

a couple of weeks ago they showed it. Cuca and Gloria went and I remember Gloria came back, she was, she was pissed. She was pissed because You know, um, I heard you made a very gracious speech, yeah, but I, I, I got up and they, they

00:25:03.180 - 00:25:18.859

basically thanked Silver for it, you know, a lie, something to that effect. Well, I, I heard, you know, I, I don't know some of the truth here, but I know the lawyer was very upset because she said that Cuer was all over, you know, I'm lying,

00:25:18.910 - 00:25:33.300

you know, them. You know, and Gloria says, you know, sure, I give him credit for them doing the film, but not to the point that I'm gonna go, no, no, you're great, you're fantastic, you know, that's what she said, OK, I, you know, I try not

00:25:33.300 - 00:25:53.089

to get into do both of them because both of them have a different taste. Did have a position in the union? Yeah, she's she's vice president. She's not part of a union leadership. Yeah, that would explain why she's not calling me back you know. I can

00:25:53.089 - 00:26:10.489

set it up. No, I, I mean, it's just the, yeah, well, actually, you know, she's been working. She's back working and she works she works in graveyard so at midnight that if I give her a call, you know, uh, we can call after here and see

00:26:10.489 - 00:26:27.969

what's happening, um. I, I wanted to move up to the Shaw settlements, um, and I'm gonna come back and be hopping around with you. These are things where I have big questions, um, unless you've got a rap that you wanna finish for a rap, you know,

00:26:28.380 - 00:26:45.900

um. I know that well let let's talk about that John Walsh show a little bit, um, I know that was. You know, made a huge stir and didn't do the strikers any favor that Joan Walsh article in the Times was sort of. Gave over about half

00:26:45.900 - 00:26:57.300

of its space to to detailing the feud between the league and CDU. She said it was nothing but sectarian and so forth and so on, I guess I think I remember a little bit of that. Yeah, I mean it was a dreadful article and I remember

00:26:57.300 - 00:27:10.439

that there was a letter that was signed jointly by Joe and Manuel and. I think Gloria wrote one too saying this is not what it's, this is not where it's at. I mean, I, I get the impression I got was that TDU is not thrilled with

00:27:10.439 - 00:27:27.400

that article either, that that Joe has just spoken way too freely to this reporter and regretted it when he saw what came out in print. Probably yeah, yeah, um, a lot of the stuff I tell you, man. I mean, I remember all these papers and all

00:27:27.400 - 00:27:44.079

these articles. I really don't pay no attention. OK. I was more involved on how do I support them? How do I give them a, and my thing was to go to the picket line, be out there talking to the workers, giving them encouragement, like, you know,

00:27:44.199 - 00:28:00.489

yeah, we're, we're gonna win, you know, yeah, about the injunction. Well, the injection was was terrible, man. I mean, you know, you look at back. back, you know, then later on when I became in the government, how the government and and and more council and all

00:28:00.489 - 00:28:15.010

of those guys had this found in control and how the chief of police, the city council, they were all, you know, buddy buddies with them. That would have never happened with us because when we were in council, there was a strike and uh I don't know

00:28:15.010 - 00:28:30.979

which one it was, you know. And we said, hey, you know, strike, you take responsibility. We're not going to be providing you security you know when the injunction happened, man, the police was, it was their lapdogs, you know, they were out there barking, man. Everything the

00:28:30.979 - 00:28:48.199

workers did, it was awful. Yeah, you know. Oh yeah, I mean they, the police, you know, they had in the picket line, you know, the only. Wanted like 4 people, 2 people on each side, and all the doors, which was ridiculous, you know, they had painted

00:28:48.199 - 00:29:00.589

in the street, but if you cross that line, they will come and arrest you. And that was ridiculous, you know, it was like a demilitarized zone, man. And when you went to the, when you went to the picket line, you know, you have to stay behind

00:29:00.589 - 00:29:12.839

the red line and and only a few people in the doors like you have to go and change them, you know. I mean it was awful and that went on for, no, that went on for a while, you know, that went on for a while until

00:29:12.839 - 00:29:25.800

it took a long time and for them to calm down, OK, but in the beginning, you know, I remember when I stepped in that line when I first came here, the cops right away then, you know, what are you doing here? You know, it, it just

00:29:25.800 - 00:29:44.140

show how much the company was in cahoots with local government and the and the city pay over a million dollars in overtime, which was ridiculous. So you didn't have a camera at that time they did, you know, um, well, now, uh, good for Shaw I'm like,

00:29:44.150 - 00:30:00.589

were you? That involved at all with with the debate over that. I was not involved in anything like that, man. I was, you know, all of that stuff was going on internally with the union, yeah, OK. They were the ones negotiating all these deals. Did you

00:30:00.589 - 00:30:16.050

hear anything? I mean. Shaw settlement came down. They said they had a committee of of of Shaw strikes in there. Who, who was who was in there? Oh, I don't be like someone like Aurora. Uh, I'm not sure if I was part of that, you know,

00:30:16.250 - 00:30:30.380

but I know that I think there was this woman named Linda. I don't know what she said now, but there was a, a group of them, you know, a group of, of them that, that, uh, you know, Shaw decided to settle, and they went, they worked

00:30:30.380 - 00:30:42.130

it out, and then they came back, I think it was only 4 or 6 months after the strike, yeah. That they decided, you know, we don't want to go this route. They were smart, you know, they negotiated and then they went back to work and some

00:30:42.130 - 00:30:58.550

of the strikers, the ones that were from Shaws, I mean, they pledged, you know, to keep supporting the watching little Kenny and some of them did, you know, like Aurora, she came from Shaws. There was a a big kickback after the show I saw like the

00:30:58.550 - 00:31:18.819

feeling was that um. It really was a setback for the. Um, That you know there was big concessions for me to kind of set a new floor for wages for the whole area and so on. Um, when I talked to Alex, he said, The contract is

00:31:18.819 - 00:31:33.719

nothing to be proud of. The day of decent contracts and frozen food was over. Uh, basically Shaw never should have been struck in the first place and came and had his act together, it wouldn't have happened. Uh, we want to take Shaw out of the equation

00:31:33.719 - 00:31:50.310

and focus on more conso because he was the real villa. Was that an assessment that was widely shared at the time? Uh, not really, you know, not really. It was, I mean, people were disappointed that the show got settled because people felt strong with both plans,

00:31:50.349 - 00:32:06.244

you know, they kept staying out. Matter of fact, some people felt like there was, you know. Sold short because they went back and they put a new, you know, benchmark for the kind of wages that the people would settle, which people felt that they were way

00:32:06.244 - 00:32:24.479

short of what they wanted, um, and, and, you know, people did not really like the idea. You know, the Shaw's was different and, and also in the sense of, of, um, uh, the leadership because I'm thinking in Shaw they're more the workers took more in the

00:32:24.479 - 00:32:41.530

leadership. That wasn't it it wasn't as strong as in what planning the PDU leadership that they were providing. Um, somebody said, uh, I, I don't remember who it was. He said that Watson Vulcannon is the older of the two plants. They've been around in the beginning.

00:32:41.780 - 00:32:58.219

It's all of its workforce was like local. Shaw was one of the last plants to be established. It drew people from all over and because it took people from outside of town. He didn't have the same solidarity. He didn't have the same, you know, nobody in

00:32:58.219 - 00:33:13.910

Washington crossed a bunch of people that did. Perhaps I didn't, I didn't, I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I mean, what I know is that the people were, were disappointed when Shaw went back. Were you, what did you hear about? Meeting where they because

00:33:13.910 - 00:33:24.910

this is the other thing Alex told me is that the first meeting they had to announce the settlement at Shaw was very raucous. There were a lot of people from Watsonville County who were there were very angry and didn't want to settle and I had to

00:33:24.910 - 00:33:38.930

throw everybody out and then let people back in again. Only Shaw workers. Did you, what did you know about that? I mean, I remember hearing about it, but you know, since we could not go in there, but what I remember is that we did not advocate

00:33:39.699 - 00:33:55.020

to the workers don't go back, OK, because I don't think it was all right, man, to tell people don't go back when it was their jobs. I remember actually. The coverage in unity when I was a headline, I think I might have written that it said

00:33:55.020 - 00:34:16.189

Shaw workers reloaded, um. I think probably. There was an element of, you know, knee jerk reaction in there, probably, you know, whatever was basically they had really taken a hit because union was not giving enough support that you can have the strength or whatever to. They

00:34:16.189 - 00:34:28.629

were not that organized, OK, I mean they, they had a lot of people that were selling very another thing, you know, but they were not that very well organized inside the plan, yeah, and, and outside, I mean when the workers came out, I mean they were

00:34:28.629 - 00:34:39.100

out there. They were on the picket line. They were because we went over there and the people over there, they were more like leery, you know, who are you guys, you know, you know what do you want, you know, I mean that's that kind of stuff,

00:34:39.590 - 00:34:57.120

um, they have different kind of leaders. I remember some of them still, you know, today. They, they expect me more now but at one point, you know, they were like. You know, um, but anyway, our relationship developed more with the with the Watan workers. Yeah, I,

00:34:57.239 - 00:35:14.320

um, one of the things that Tom told me. Or actually was in the document that he gave me. He said there was a lot of demoralization, that there were some questions after the Shaw set about whether the strike at Watson Van couldn't back. And there was

00:35:14.320 - 00:35:28.159

a reassessment of what would, what would need to be done in order for watch cocaine to win. um, well, this is Tom, you know, this summer, you know, uh, he said that one of the things that needed to be done is we had to figure out

00:35:28.159 - 00:35:51.639

some way to to work with the union. Um, We were talking about Jeffrey Dunn, you know, um. In his review of the film of John Su's film, he says, uh. That the strikers committee pursued the sort of middle path and that, you know. Uh, sort of

00:35:51.639 - 00:36:06.639

actually Bark he's the one who sent us that article he wrote after the track. He says that the, you know, league opted for this sort of more middle role in terms of the union. My sense was that. To the extent that you know any kind of

00:36:06.639 - 00:36:18.590

thing on it, it didn't happen until after the Shah settlement that there was a reassessment that, you know, there was this feeling that some way was going to have to be found to work with the union to get its resources working for the strikes and so

00:36:18.590 - 00:36:35.863

on. Well, I think that that part of the part of the strategy, you know, was to force the teamsters to take responsibility, you know, for the strike because that meant getting the getting the strike benefits. That was. That was key for the strike to be to

00:36:38.133 - 00:36:51.123

to last. Yeah, that was part of it, you know, from the beginning, right, that the union had to be there and that part of that of the planning was to force them to do more because that was their union. PDU had the opposite, right? PDU was

00:36:51.123 - 00:37:09.635

all against, you know, there's there's, they're just bureaucrats, there's shut. They're, they're just incompetent, you know, that was their line, you know, and they should be, we shouldn't have no relationship with them, you know, that was, you know, let's throw them out. And you know, the

00:37:09.645 - 00:37:24.479

the attitude of us with the workers was, you know, yeah, they're all of that, you know, but we need to push him and he doesn't do it, yeah, we, we need to push him. Now here's a leaflet I pulled out of the San Francisco state stuff,

00:37:25.370 - 00:37:49.939

uh. That ring a bell with me. This looks like something that Joe did, but I noticed he got several members of the striker's committee to sign on to it, and he got the union's, you know, endorsement on it. Oh thank you Gimenez I was one of

00:37:49.939 - 00:38:22.290

them. I was one of them. Carolina Campos Chabeloo Torres Trujillo, Teresa Corpus. Molina Ramirez. OK, alright, yeah, I mean, I mean, um. There's also a police report that came out a few days later that said this new group that Joe Bay has started called. Uh, Teams

00:38:22.290 - 00:38:40.820

through the United 9-12, you know, Joe Bay and a bunch of outside agitators are having this rally. Uh, on the 17th, and they actually had a whole police, uh, strategy to break up the rally. I actually have the documents in the archive of San Francisco State.

00:38:41.580 - 00:39:02.560

I know the problem on the 17th was that the police were incredibly aggressive and they pissed people off and that kind of contributed to the kind of the chaos that followed. I also know that um. This group got blamed for the rock throwing and then the

00:39:02.560 - 00:39:23.010

broken windows on Main Street and so forth. Well, I remember, man, that, you know, perhaps, you know, that was called, but again it was, you know, uh, it was not that we organized and when, when uh. The rally started and this, you know, this capsule coming

00:39:23.010 - 00:39:47.550

by, we saw, OK, because we saw again the instigators and the instigators tried to, to tell the people that we were agents. OK, some of the, the instigators went and told the strikers that we were instigators, that we were agents, that we were there to convert

00:39:47.550 - 00:40:01.250

them because they were, they were the real guys that were gonna, you know, and because of cops were agents, that's what they call them. We were Asians. Mat of fact, some of the strikers came and said, you know, they, they're saying you guys are agents. And

00:40:01.250 - 00:40:12.100

I, and I thought, are you gonna believe these guys that you haven't even seen? I mean, have you seen these guys before? They go, No, you know, and it was, and I remember what we had to go tell strikers, you know, I mean some of these

00:40:12.100 - 00:40:27.524

guys, they're instigators, and look what they're already doing, you know, OK. And that's exactly what happened and they the march started and they just started breaking windows, started, you know, it went wild, you know, and why, what was it that why we didn't get in trouble?

00:40:28.054 - 00:40:41.429

Because as the march as they started going wild, you know, some of us, we didn't go, we didn't go that direction, no, we stayed behind. We said these people are taking them down, they're going down there. And there's gonna be a lot of chaos because we

00:40:41.429 - 00:40:55.590

already started seeing them throwing rocks, you know, and they were just young students, people that we've never seen before, you know, and I don't know where they came from in Santa Cruz. I don't know, but they were not, OK, yeah, no, they were Latinos too, you

00:40:55.590 - 00:41:11.399

know. Oh yeah, and they were more, I don't know, unexy type, you know. But they, they took over, really, you know, the rally. I mean they decided the rally was down in local 12, the canneries, OK, in trying to stop, you know, the, the trucks, and

00:41:11.399 - 00:41:25.649

there was a big rally, then the cops came and said, you know, there's rally's, you know, the water, you know, it's messed, and I remember all of us going boo boo. Then people started moving from the rally and then all we heard was go down Main

00:41:25.649 - 00:41:37.790

Street. And then people started coming down Main Street and then they came on Main Street. But it wasn't more like it wasn't like rally rally. It was more like just running, man, and just breaking windows, you know, and, and, and we didn't, you know, a lot

00:41:37.790 - 00:41:56.530

of us, we stayed behind. We stayed over there. The rally went on. I reckon people were, uh, I reckon you were pretty upset when that happened, of course, because we knew that there were some aditators coming in, you know, infiltrating to try to, to, uh, discredit

00:41:57.060 - 00:42:09.860

the, the strikers committee because that was not led by the strikers committee and you remember me see Joe and all of them because they didn't respect the strikers committee. They didn't, they didn't, they didn't include it. They were like, and if you see the movie, you

00:42:09.860 - 00:42:23.729

know, the movie. It just shows you in some parts, a member of the strikers committee. It doesn't tell the movie doesn't tell you there was a strikers committee selected. These were the people that were elected to the strikers Committee. That's what we call it the the

00:42:23.729 - 00:42:41.544

lying movie, OK, because it destroys the history. It just mentions Chabelo from the strikers Committee. He said, who was strikers, you know, Glory. Yeah and there's different little things. So if you look at the movie, the credit is Joe Peggy, Barty, John Silver, you know, them,

00:42:41.655 - 00:43:00.850

they're, they were the leaders who let this, you know, fool Mexicans out there, you know, well. Yeah, I mean, I I, I had that problem with the movie. I very angry. Why did I, why did I, I did not get in trouble because people thought I

00:43:00.850 - 00:43:14.669

was gonna be in trouble because I never went. I never went and did things, man, that I should not be doing because my whole thing was you respect the workers. They're the leaders. They're the ones that are on the picket line. I would go home. I

00:43:14.669 - 00:43:29.060

have my apartment. I have food. I don't have to worry, OK? My attitude was they're out there, man. It's not me, it's right, OK? And they're the ones that have to take the leadership, and that was the kind of relationship we had with Chabelo, with Gloria,

00:43:29.070 - 00:43:50.510

and with Cuca, and that's why Cuca to today, even when she goes like this. Here's what she will tell you inuka, OK, will come back later because When he got with Sergio, Sergio swallowed him um. Punning back to um you don't know this this organization Teamsters

00:43:50.510 - 00:44:03.489

United 912. I had never even heard of it. It was it was, it was Joey and and and their group of people here. It looks like what they were trying to do was, you know, reconstitute, you know, that, that whole big meeting with the strikers committee

00:44:03.489 - 00:44:19.939

in October. Hey, we should have done that, so maybe we can do it now. They see, they felt they were behind, OK? And they felt all along that when the strikers came and they organized a big meeting, you know, they couldn't accept it. They could not

00:44:19.939 - 00:44:40.219

accept that the strikers have selected their own leadership not even barking. Uh, the, um. And yet they got, they got Gina and Gloria and Aurora and Chael signed this call, probably because they were also, you know, they wanted to see, they wanted to see action. I

00:44:40.219 - 00:44:54.199

mean, I'm not gonna say that they wanted to see action. They were, they were pretty frustrated and tired, man, and Chao was pretty modern, OK, OK, he's very modern. He wasn't gonna do something that You know, he was all for, yeah, anything that can mobilize and

00:44:54.199 - 00:45:10.030

bring things together. He didn't remember this at all. I mean I was struck by it because I had heard nothing about it they probably use their names. Who knows? I'm gonna be surprised if they use their names, they even ask them, you know. Well, now you

00:45:10.030 - 00:45:27.439

after this is over, there was a Women's Day strikers can be put on. Um, depends on how that got together. A women's Women's Day. Oh yeah, uh, I think it was a game from the solidarity committee, you know, and they, they were able to, uh, I

00:45:27.439 - 00:45:43.479

think get the, the fair grounds and, uh, you know, the women play a big role. I think there's when, when Cheri and some of them are more active, you know, yeah, and, uh, and then again, you know, there was a big role trying to push the

00:45:43.479 - 00:45:59.500

teamsters, you know, to be more supportive, to be to spread the word. And see, and I think that was a big difference between what was happening with this with with the TVDUs and and just taking all of them that they were so anti-Teamster, you know, they

00:45:59.500 - 00:46:15.500

were so anti-Teamster that anything that included the Teamsters for them it was like, you know, selling out, OK, and you know, a bunch of us view was, you can, I mean that is their organization matter of fact, that they have to do this what the whole

00:46:15.500 - 00:46:31.189

thing was, they take over the leadership, OK. But by that time, Sergio was already the leadership and Sergio, you know, he was playing this kind of a role. You know, but he was being pushed to play that kind of a role and, and that kind of

00:46:31.189 - 00:46:46.129

role that he played, you know, it wasn't necessarily what Barley King just said he wanted to see. OK, that's why, you know, later on they went after him, you know, we didn't think, you know, I wasn't very happy with Sergio either because I saw Sergio, just

00:46:46.129 - 00:47:06.172

another, it was a Latino fester, you know, but had also a lot of. And that instead of him opening up, what concretely, I think that it was the whole idea of how of how he treated the workers that he wasn't, you know, he wasn't very, very

00:47:06.172 - 00:47:16.753

open to them. He had he had a cliff who he liked. If he liked you and now I see, you know, when you get in there, if he liked you, he opened the door for you, but if he didn't like you, you know. He would make

00:47:16.753 - 00:47:32.233

things. He didn't like Gloria, you know, he didn't like Hua, you know, he didn't like some of those because we were pressuring him. He didn't like the impression, see, and then he was in cahoots, you know, with that with Alex and and the whole and their

00:47:32.233 - 00:47:49.575

team. What kind of relationship you have with Alex? Nothing. I just, I was just, no, I didn't have no with them. First I didn't know anything about that. All I know is when, when they came in, all I heard was who those guys were wearing those

00:47:49.575 - 00:48:04.256

jackets and all that stuff all they, they're uh they're coming from the Joint Council er. I'm like, I don't know, you know, I mean, I, I had been a teacher when I was a UPS writer. I was never involved in the union, you know, and when

00:48:04.256 - 00:48:18.879

Alex came and all of them. I mean there's this other guy, you know, I'm trying to remember this Chicano guy, Eddie Rodriguez, when I saw him last time in Alex's funeral. I mean, I remember he came over to me, man, and he says, Oscar, nice to

00:48:18.879 - 00:48:34.199

see you, man. It's great memories that we have and then I'm going, are you, man, I remember him but you know, but see what happened was when they came in, they, they came in and they had identified us who we were, the supporters, OK. But they

00:48:34.199 - 00:48:51.439

also, I think they also came and knew. That we were not crazy, you know, that we were not, we were not, uh, stupid, crazy, and that we had some legitimate contact with the workers. I think that was a big difference what they saw. And, and even

00:48:51.439 - 00:49:07.239

Bob, when I saw him, Bob, you know, it's like, like if I was his good buddy, oh God, you know. Yeah, OK. You know, I mean, no, when I, when I saw Bob the last time in Alex's funeral, you know, he was like, Hey, Oscar, you

00:49:07.239 - 00:49:22.379

know, it's like my good old buddy buddies, you know. I didn't, I didn't know. Alex. I saw him was this big bald dude, and you know, I met him and hello, how are you? and that was it, you know. I mean he talk to the strikers.

00:49:23.850 - 00:49:42.620

He talked individually and Alex was, he was pretty diplomatic, you know. He told me he was very impressed with that. Well yeah, that was what persuaded him to strike. You know, if they got out of it if they did. But the reason, the reason was, see,

00:49:43.030 - 00:49:55.790

if you remember we were doing all the work, man, working with them, OK, and, and Tom was playing a big role, you know, after, you know, I mean, he was one of the key players because he was the one that would be coming, man, we were,

00:49:55.909 - 00:50:10.379

you know, strategizing with with him, man, you know. And then Manuel, um, and, and, uh, then, you know, we and we had a group of people that we could, you know, because we met all the time and we tried to see, OK, what are we gonna

00:50:10.379 - 00:50:21.179

do now? What are we gonna do this, you know, and we played a role with the strikers and always trying to give them, you know, guidance and help them and that's what they like about us because they say you didn't come and tell us what to

00:50:21.179 - 00:50:39.500

do. You can't help us what to do. Um, and, all of those guys didn't like him. They didn't like us. The season started up again I guess in February um. How do the seasons work? How do the seasons work in those plants. One of the plants

00:50:39.500 - 00:50:54.060

running full sales? Well, I, you know, at that time I didn't really know. I mean now, but at that time, you know, I mean now that I know it's seasons at a certain time that we stop, but over here, you know, in the, in the frozen

00:50:54.060 - 00:51:09.550

food. Oh they didn't almost work all year round at that time, OK, because they were bringing products, you know, this wasn't like the other plants and like in Salinas, they moved during the season down south, OK, these ones, they didn't move, they stayed here, OK? And

00:51:09.810 - 00:51:27.399

you know, when the season started, when they said it was stopped like from November, you know, to March, April, it was slow time, OK, and then the season started again, so you may have noticed it really, you know, because she was, she was strike. Um, but.

00:51:28.239 - 00:51:52.090

Even then, I mean, there was the season would generally last from what February to about. Uh, you know, like, using the vegetables, you know, they are from. April, March, April to about November 2nd week of November, right, because I remember the, the um the scuttlebut that

00:51:52.090 - 00:52:06.610

came out and I think Bob Johnson wrote an article of this saying this is really have to start off something this is really do or die time for the union because they have to make enough of an impact. Now the season is picking up again. They

00:52:06.610 - 00:52:25.760

have to hurt council enough. If he'll settle for the 12 months are up and then he can be certified. Uh, Did you have much of a sense about how much production was coming out of that plan at that point? You know, not, not, not very much,

00:52:25.800 - 00:52:39.590

you know, I mean, I mean that was the whole thing that we would see trucks going in, trucks come up, but it wasn't that much, you know, it wasn't. It wasn't like a lot of big trucks were coming out, you know. When did you first hear

00:52:39.590 - 00:52:57.669

about this notion of recertification? Yeah, they come out, you know, after, you know, we were getting close to, you know, to the year and then they, they, they, you know, they investigated and they found out there had never been, there had never been a boat, you

00:52:57.669 - 00:53:15.300

know, in the 3s when when the dusters went in there. And that's why we really saved them and open the door for another year. Yeah, well, Coo hadn't budgeted for 2 years, um, and, um, I, I really wanna ask how I've always been impressed with how

00:53:15.300 - 00:53:29.649

they were able to. Bring people back from all over the place for that boat on that one day. Do you know any people who came back? I mean, actually told me that Armando was in Mexico. He came back for the boats. Well, all I know is

00:53:29.649 - 00:53:44.090

that they did a lot of good work, man. They did a lot of, you know, because, well, they prepared them and they knew that there was a strike. I mean, the boat was coming, coming. Uh, when the boat take place around, uh, uh, well, the boat

00:53:44.090 - 00:54:01.739

took place around when, uh, it would have been, uh, mid August, I think August 12th or 13th. I just If I'm not mistaken, man, you know, when did, when did, uh, when did Jesse Jackson come through? Jackson is there I think in July, end of June

00:54:01.739 - 00:54:18.110

or July. It must have been June then. I mean there was no talk of that recertification at the time of Jackson came out that that was all I remember, man, was that they found out, you know, and people went all over by phone, by sending, you

00:54:18.110 - 00:54:30.949

know, people telegrams to come and vote, you know. Did you know any people who came out of town? I didn't know these people, you know, I met people in the strike. I said, you know, I would go to the picket line. The people that I had

00:54:30.949 - 00:54:43.935

a relationship, you know, was the strikers, and then. Got to meet some of the people that were on strike, but that was my, my whole thing, and I wasn't into all online interns that were going on with with behind the scenes with the teamsters. I was

00:54:43.935 - 00:54:56.614

not, you know, um, I was, I was mainly in support, you know, like if we need to take Gloria out to would speak, you know, I would take her out and, you know, if we need some people to take him to university, I would take him

00:54:56.614 - 00:55:19.060

over there and I would coach him, you know, and I would be the, I did, I, I would be the interpreter well. Uh, After the vote happens mhm. That was from I know. I'll talk about Teamster convention, I guess in April of the 6th April or

00:55:19.060 - 00:55:33.080

May. Um, was there any kind of preparation that went on there in terms of the sanctions idea? Alex said he pretty much came up with the idea that you know we have all this money in the pension funds we could threaten to pull it out and

00:55:33.080 - 00:55:47.560

cut off's line of credit. A lot of that, I mean, I think that that if you talk to Cherie, I think Cherie was, you know, she played a little role in there, you know, with Alex and all those guys, you know, but a lot of, a

00:55:47.560 - 00:56:00.305

lot of the strategies. You know, were also developed by some of us, you know, that that this is what's gonna happen, the convention, you know, he was always trying to see how do we utilize the Teamsters more, see, and see, and, and I don't know, I'm

00:56:00.305 - 00:56:12.172

not even surprised if Alex says I came up with that, but somebody has to, you know, put in his ear, you know, and remember we always, we always felt like let's put a bug in there an idea. end of year and then let them pay credit,

00:56:12.251 - 00:56:23.112

you know, and then let them feel good about what they did. And I think a lot of the stuff that happened, we did that, you know, by, by giving them, you know, what do you think about this idea, and then they would develop it they go,

00:56:23.132 - 00:56:37.679

oh, it's a great idea, my idea, you know what I mean. We didn't care, man, as long as, you know, and I think like part of it that in in a lot of stuff that that we did or I had done. I, I, um, I have

00:56:37.679 - 00:56:53.040

a, I have a hard time saying I did this. I I never, you know, I always felt like, you know, we're, you know, we're supporting, you know, we wanted to, we wanted to achieve the victory. We wanted to have that strike over, man, by any ways

00:56:53.040 - 00:57:09.479

that we could. We have too much more time for you. Do you have to go at 3:30, uh, about 3, OK. I wanna know. Well, go ahead. I mean, I, I, uh, I gotta go to Santa Cruz, but we can talk again, but, um, I wanna

00:57:09.479 - 00:57:33.030

ask you about that last 5 days, the hunger strike, um. Basically, I mean your feeling was it was the striker's decision to make whether to accept that settlement that Sergio negotiated. I guess Sergio now actually did most of the right. Um, prior to the actual negotiation,

00:57:33.290 - 00:57:48.320

when it was simply when all was being negotiated with girls take over the plant. That was when that big demonstration was at the bank. Yeah, I remember going down to San Francisco. Yeah, tell me more about that. I remember going down to San Francisco, you know,

00:57:48.969 - 00:58:02.699

we have to pressure the bank because the bank was not. The strategy came out and, you know, actually came out a lot somewhere, OK, that we needed to put pressure on the banks and again we planned this idea from these guys, man, and they, they picked

00:58:02.699 - 00:58:18.030

it up. So that was so good about Alex, man. I don't know. I mean if he tried to say that he came out with the idea of bullshit. Did you know that that that that Chuck Mari actually was here. I told of this document is gonna

00:58:18.030 - 00:58:57.459

get me. That's basically that's Chuck Mac kind of threatening to put local 912 and trustee shift. Less than 20 workers? I didn't know about this until Sergio mentioned it to me and he didn't give any dates or details. He just told me this to

00:58:57.459 - 00:59:24.600

kind of impress upon me the kind of. Pressure he was under from the international. How you know, basically when he got David Gill to buy the plant that was when uh. You know, Chuck Matthews up and decided well maybe trusteeship won't be necessary. But it seems

00:59:24.600 - 00:59:51.919

like this is being provoked in part by these demonstrations at the bank. To me it's that see all this shit was going on. I didn't know. I don't know because see, again, my duty man was to be in the picket line, was to give support to

00:59:51.919 - 01:00:09.050

the strikers, was to be encourage them and to take them out of here. I would take them out, you know, to speak on engagements. I would be raising money, you know, a lot of the surging tactics that were taking place. Even though I would be listening

01:00:09.050 - 01:00:26.310

to him, you know, I would be taking this, this is already 87. Remember things started in '85. This this is two weeks before the strike, right, see, because what was happening, see what was happening then is. Things began to dwindle down, OK, and, and the strikers

01:00:26.310 - 01:00:42.899

committee was very small by then, you know, who was still out there, OK, I mean they were still fighting them. You know, the boycott strike was going on, you know, more, more nationwide was known about the strike, OK? And they were still, you know, a group

01:00:42.899 - 01:00:54.449

of people that was, that was still thinking that the strike should not be settled, you know, that they should fight it all the way out, you know, they should continue to hold on, but he, those those were people that were not in the picket line, you

01:00:54.449 - 01:01:15.010

know, well, the, the, the, um. Cono shut down for about 11 days in October, right, in September about, you know, a few weeks after the certification happens. And at that point people must have seen that, you know, he was heading for the skits, um. Nobody really

01:01:15.010 - 01:01:29.169

knew what would happen if he went bankrupt. What kind of discussions went on about that? Well, you know, the worst thing that would happen would be that the strike was lost and that people would end up with no job anyway, you know. Some people already felt

01:01:29.169 - 01:01:44.344

like that. Some people can, you know, began to feel like, wow, you know, can this really last? And it wasn't until, you know, David Gill came and. Over and the whole deal was done there was some hope. When did people first show that here that part

01:01:44.344 - 01:01:56.655

of, I think it was part of the negotiations, you know, that the contract was going to be settled the David Gill was coming in, you know, it's part of the deal that that he was gonna take over it and then that just the way that they

01:01:56.655 - 01:02:14.179

could deal with the they could have a contract, uh, I mean that whole slogan, you buy the plan, you buy the track, uh. That, that, that came up what in in uh in you were calling back when people first started saying that. Um, That kind of

01:02:14.179 - 01:02:27.209

that's a different strategy though, right? You got more things that you can't investigated that. Well, you know, I mean, I, I have the advantage. I'm just looking at this stuff. You lived through it 25 years ago. I mean this is what I keep running up against

01:02:27.209 - 01:02:40.360

again and again. Well, I mean, all I remember, man, is that. You know, coming into the to the strike was one thing and then settle it and and then going back in there and then fighting all the shit that was happening once they went back in

01:02:40.360 - 01:02:56.429

there, OK, because, you know, we didn't stop after the strike was over and people went back, then the fight started again, you know, the fight started about how they were being treated and that's what we did remember the little fire that I gave you. All the

01:02:56.429 - 01:03:03.939

flyers that I gave you, remember last time, those were one people went back, you know, because how they were treated again by some of the, you know, some of some of the people was not particularly. No, no, he didn't want, you know, he told me, you

01:03:03.939 - 01:03:25.379

know, I interviewed him, he told me he just had no desire to be in, yeah, you know, he just, he wanted to get his money back and get the hell out, you know, which is pretty much what he did, you know. Um, he also said that,

01:03:26.010 - 01:03:39.889

you know, the, uh, the exact terms of the settlement were not that big a deal for amazing if you want to get the plan up and running, he wanted to settle with the union, so we have an experienced workforce in there, uh, so it wasn't a

01:03:39.889 - 01:03:54.350

huge issue with him. How they dealt with those health benefits for seasonal workers, was there a lot of debate? Was there a lot of discussion? Was there a lot of soul searching about whether or not to settle, uh, with what they originally came back from negotiations

01:03:54.350 - 01:04:10.229

with, you know, at that by that time. By that time, people were glad, man, that something was gonna be negotiated and that something, it was hard to demand more money when the company when people thought that the company was gonna go down and nothing was gonna

01:04:10.229 - 01:04:25.530

happen. I mean people were glad that finally. It wasn't the best, but at least you know the company was going to stay open and the people were going to have jobs. Were you surprised when that vote took place not to accept the agreement and to insist

01:04:25.530 - 01:04:41.929

on getting the health benefits restored? You were not surprised. Because I have seen people on the strike, you know. I, you know, my interview is Zorriac, you listen to the, the, uh the KD broadcast, you'll I'll hear her say this, I mean. Uh, she said, you

01:04:41.929 - 01:04:52.790

know, of course we were, you know, we are not on strike to preserve our health benefits in the first place. We weren't going to go back without this right. And then I said, Well, were you worried that, you know, what might happen if they, if Gil

01:04:52.790 - 01:05:10.719

wouldn't go along with this? And there's a dead silence for about a minute and then she says, yes, you know, it's like there was a sense that they were taking a terrible chance by not accepting those terms. Um, I asked Chivelo, you know, if there's been

01:05:10.719 - 01:05:25.790

any back and forth among the strikers committee of the negotiators during the negotiations about this. I, I, I got the sense from him that it hadn't even occurred to them until it came up in the meeting, the ratification meeting, that this might be a problem. Is

01:05:25.790 - 01:05:39.310

that your sense? I it was it was you weren't at that meeting. We could go in there. You couldn't go in there. I mean, Joe, Joey was in there because you know we were not, we could not go in. We were outside. Did people talk about

01:05:39.310 - 01:05:56.280

this at all? Oh yeah, yeah, because if I, if I remember, you know, I mean it's, you know, I don't remember if we. A flyer or something, you know, to explain to people what was going on, you know. Well, I've got the fly flyers, right? I

01:05:56.280 - 01:06:16.820

mean you know they were flyers being fast to let people know what was going on, what we're going to vote, what was happening inside. He's, I guess this is Sergio's handout, you know, just trying to get people to accept the 39. Oh, does she recognize this

01:06:16.820 - 01:06:46.629

one? that one. To do, yeah, um, well, uh, you're watching those, you know, you don't recognize that phone now there was a rally one time I remember where on March, I remember when March was time when the cops when the people had were fighting

01:06:46.629 - 01:07:02.270

the cops, the cops, you know, were throwing rocks, the people throwing rocks, and he said the people, you know. At the cop's corner and so I went to Chabelo and said told Chabe Chabelo, I think we should call this thing off. OK. Nobody got hurt. Everybody's

01:07:02.270 - 01:07:16.790

all right. The cops are hiding over there, you know, I think we should just call it off, man. You know, retreat, you know, we did a job and Chabe did that when told people this retreat nobody left, nobody got in trouble, and it was good because

01:07:17.000 - 01:07:30.080

they were just the cops were just getting ready, man, around the corner they were hanging all these cops, you know, to the group. Because I remember that night leaving and I went to San Jose and I went and met with him and I don't. I told

01:07:30.080 - 01:07:41.889

people, I, I remember saying to people, that's not about the revolution must have been, you know, but I said when the masses, you know, are taking over the, you know, the police, and, but then you have to know when you retreat, you know, you know, you

01:07:41.889 - 01:07:57.935

know, because people, and people got mad, you got mad at us because they said that we saw the strikers because the strikers had. Cops surrounded and there was another strike, man, and it was another, I don't remember when, but it was another one of those, you

01:07:57.935 - 01:08:10.895

know, strikes that broke out. It was in the afternoon, and all the time it broke out, and then the cops were, you know, people trying to rock at the cops and yeah, it happened in Watsonville, yeah, I mean, I remember going to and telling, man, I

01:08:10.895 - 01:08:26.059

think that we should cut it off, you know, with the people who already made it a point. And then later we heard from people from TDU, you know, coming and criticizing us for, for stopping what they said. We had the cops corral, and I go, Oh

01:08:26.059 - 01:08:45.200

yeah, yeah, give me a break, and we're lucky we didn't get our people, you know, busted. Yeah, yeah, um, one thing I, I, I'm curious about is the situation of Crosetti, huh. They made one of those me too agreements just like uh. There was a group

01:08:45.200 - 01:09:02.350

of a couple 100 workers who actually succeeded in organizing and voting it down the first time and they they they reversed it later. Do you know anything about that? I'm trying to remember we're someti workers. I don't remember the details, but I know there was. You

01:09:02.350 - 01:09:18.569

know, there were some contacts with the when you concentrated over again is fine, you know. I mean, I know my study was in pretty serious financial difficulties eventually one of it getting swallowed by David Gill. All these companies were going under, yeah. Do you buy the

01:09:18.569 - 01:09:34.700

line that uh The Mexican competition was to blame. Uh, no, I think that Mexico had a lot of influence because when we went down there, when we went to Mexico, you know, and, uh, we saw what they had over there and how much they were paying

01:09:34.700 - 01:09:49.000

and how big the companies were. Uh, they would go, wow, well, it's hard to compete with those guys were doing it way before they put all the companies down there already and then the fields you know in the Bahilo Valley, they were already producing, so it

01:09:49.000 - 01:10:03.279

took them a while to, you know, to do that. On what that did was that it made the competition harder. And so it took effect here. Yeah, it did, I think, you know, but I don't think that was the main reason. I think that one of

01:10:03.279 - 01:10:15.459

the main reasons was that and more council told me that that he got bad advice. He got better, but there, you know, when I saw him one time in the restaurant and I, and I no counsel. I ran into him one time over here in one

01:10:15.459 - 01:10:31.259

of one of the stores, and I was behind him and he, you know, he's going to the line. He goes, he's got and he goes. More constant and I go, Oh, Mark, why he was buying some cheap wine, and I couldn't believe. I go, this guy

01:10:31.259 - 01:10:47.509

is buying a bottle of cheap wine. And uh so, so I go where I go, so what do you think that, what do you regret out of all the strike I I asked him? He goes, that advice. That advice was, I should have made them out.

01:10:48.229 - 01:11:00.049

But I, you know, and then when I asked this other, uh, this other worker that when I told you, the, the guy, the owner of this other company, because he knew all these people, he grew up here, he knew all this history, and I asked him,

01:11:00.089 - 01:11:14.200

what do you think of when did it happen over there when you start? He said, you know, he goes, when you bring in people. And because he said they said when more counsel's daddy ran the company, the company was very profitable, man. He was doing really

01:11:14.200 - 01:11:28.430

well. He handed to him, you know, a golden platter, but he said his son, instead of him controlling it, he handed over to other people and these other people, man, smiling, smiling and all this other group of people, you know, so it was very hard for

01:11:28.430 - 01:11:40.299

him to then take it back and control it like he should have. And so he lost contact, man. So when I talked to him and I said, What is the thing that you regret the most in the strike? He said, that advice. Do you think he

01:11:40.299 - 01:11:54.790

was referring to what Batard Mendelson T? No, I just went, well, you know, I go too bad, you know, because a lot of people lost. He goes, You ain't cheating me and I lost a lot, you know. And that was the last time I saw him

01:11:54.790 - 01:12:13.540

because then later on he died but I I always remember that because he recognized me. I recognized him. he passed away not long ago, a couple of years back, yeah, it's too bad, he had a reputation for being kind of a way strong playboy and Whatever,

01:12:13.620 - 01:12:28.569

man, he didn't know. Well, when he was there buying a cheap wine and I figured that this guy is not that much of a either a big time spender or a good drinker, you know, and or maybe he needs some good cheap wine, um, but anyway,

01:12:28.740 - 01:12:43.520

uh, when I, when I talked to these guys, that's what these guys told me, because when you give your company away to some other folks. They will, it's hard for you to come back and try to control it because they already have control, but a lot

01:12:43.520 - 01:12:55.330

of these flyers and all this stuff, man, you know. All I remember is that when the flag came out, we want to make sure that the strikers got it and you passed. Well, probably I should let you go soon. I wanna ask you a little bit

01:12:55.330 - 01:13:02.529

more about those last days. You gotta, I, I just need to buy a battery, man, because I need to go to Wal Santa Cruz. um, let's, let's continue this.