00:00:01.039 - 00:00:19.319

And we're talking once again with Sergio Lopez and it's uh July. 20th, 19. Who knows where the time goes. I'll put it close to you so I'll pick you up. You were saying that about uh the role the workers played in this. Well, they they play

00:00:19.319 - 00:00:40.979

the most important role. All, all the credit should go to the workers. They're, they're the ones that held together. They were the they were the ones that suffered through um. All the adversity that economic pressures could. Brought that on them. They were the ones that suffered

00:00:40.979 - 00:00:58.900

the abuse that more cos wanted to impose on them. They were the ones that uh would not give an inch, would not give up for 18 months. And uh you know it doesn't matter who claims the credit um that doesn't matter to me as much as

00:00:59.709 - 00:01:18.830

making sure that everyone recognizes that it was the workers, the workers forming a real true union in the full sense of the word, holding together, united, persevering, not letting any of the forces, and there were many, many forces at work, the international, the joint council, the

00:01:18.830 - 00:01:42.580

local, uh. Political divisions, the outside outside influence, um, the outsiders that came into influence to try to influence them, none of those things were able to divide their unity. Yes, there were some people that, uh, they were diverted their focus for some time, but nevertheless, nevertheless,

00:01:42.830 - 00:01:57.919

they would not cross that picket line. They, they asked a lot of questions about uh. Who was doing what for the strike, why was it taking so long, things like that, but you know, in that process, a lot of the people, a lot of those workers

00:01:58.290 - 00:02:20.789

rank rank and file people that never, never, never even thought that they had leadership qualities. They found out that they did. They went out They beat the drums, they uh. They, um, went, went out and got um they collected food. For the food bank, they got

00:02:20.789 - 00:02:37.199

donations that they brought back to the, the um strikers fund. Um, they, they found that they could talk to TV cameras, they could talk to the audience, they could talk, uh, in front of the public, and those are things that they never knew they had, and

00:02:37.199 - 00:03:02.600

it was wonderful to watch while it was happening, um. Like any person who achieves the the spotlight. Once the the spotlight shines on you. Some people fall in love with the spotlight. Other people, uh, take it just very naturally, but When the spotlight is on you,

00:03:02.750 - 00:03:26.350

that you will, there will always be controversy. So some of the strike committee people became controversial, such as, uh, Gloria Betancourt and uh others, but God bless them all. God bless them all because they all held together. Not one political philosophy or not one power pulling

00:03:26.350 - 00:03:44.029

and tugging them away in a different direction was able to divide them to the point that they abandoned the strike. I wanted to ask you about one thing in particular that that really impressed me, which is what they were able to mobilize people for the the

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certification vote. In July, was it? I believe so, yes, yeah. Were you close to that process at all? Can you shed any light on how they did that? I mean, I gather people were just scattered all over creation when the vote happened. We were very, very.

00:04:03.360 - 00:04:22.679

It would we were trying to. You know, locate people that uh had left the area. We went out of town to bring them back to vote. Uh, we, uh, how did you know where people were. People have this small community. They have people have relatives and

00:04:22.679 - 00:04:43.079

um, you know, a lot of the workers moved to different, uh, like uh Merced. Uh, Huron, places like that and to get to make ends meet in the fields or something, yeah, yeah, yeah, and so the day of the election. We had drivers. We had cars

00:04:43.079 - 00:05:01.609

going all all over the place, so no one could have an excuse or a reason not to vote, and it turned out wonderful. That was a great success. I mean, our people, they never did anything that was half-assed. They voted with the. Um, with all the,

00:05:01.619 - 00:05:19.130

uh, Conviction in the uh conviction in the world with all the knowledge in the world. They voted, uh, with a, I think there was only one vote against going on strike. I believe that's that's the case in the case of Pots of Canning. What one vote

00:05:19.130 - 00:05:37.859

against it and 900 and some for it, and they knew what they were doing, but what great conviction and that everything that they did, they did with the greatest conviction. Uh, so how many people at the time of the vote had left Watsonville? Uh, how many

00:05:37.859 - 00:06:06.510

people do you have to bring back? Uh, not that many, probably 40, 60 people or so. Yes, I heard stories about people coming back from Mexico to cast their ballot. Oh yeah, that's true too. Do you know any details or

00:06:06.510 - 00:06:19.010

just you know it's been so long that I you know I yeah, yeah, I never thought about a book about this. Well, um. But mainly it was like they were family members who stayed behind. They were the main contacts, they were friends, I mean, people would

00:06:19.010 - 00:06:36.989

stay in touch with each other. One thing I had a question but this is something that Joe said yesterday that I found interesting. He said that um. Richard Shaw did not have the workers there did not have the same kind of. Rock solid unity of the

00:06:36.989 - 00:06:52.369

Watsonvilleanic people had, and he thought that the reason for that was because Shaw was a newer plant, and he hired people from outside of Watsonville. There were people from Castroville or people in Santa Cruz. They didn't have that same kind of tight community. But if you

00:06:52.369 - 00:07:05.660

scabbed in Watsonville, the whole town would know about it and nobody wanted to put themselves in that. It was like a coal mining town, you know, almost the way he was describing it. Uh, is that something, is that your sense? Well, it, it, I would be

00:07:05.660 - 00:07:31.980

a fool to disagree with that. I mean, it is true that the Shah people for various reasons did not have. Um, the same cohesiveness the Wazaulanon people had, um, I mean, after all, They decided to go back to work, uh, and accepted it as a contract,

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um, what is it? 5 months into the strike, into the, the 18 month strike that the was Cannon people, uh, uh, endured. But um as to the reason why they were not so together um it was I don't think it was because that uh The plant

00:07:53.079 - 00:08:17.440

being north and Watsonville County had anything to do with it. I believe that management at Shaw was not as mean and ugly as Wa Canning. The Shaw people, the Richard A. Shaw, uh, the owner and his kids. his offspring would actually go out to the picket

00:08:17.440 - 00:08:38.919

line and talk to the workers and then there was a dialogue and uh whereas uh more consul and his entourage would go by the the picket line and um ridicule the workers. They, they would, uh, um, pick fights with them. They would belittle them. They would

00:08:38.919 - 00:08:58.190

humiliate him and uh so. The whole handling of each particular strike was entirely different, vastly different. You had dealings with Mort Conso before the strike, right? I mean, it's in your role as BA. What was it like to negotiate with him before the strike before he

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made up his mind that he was gonna run the union? I mean, could you deal with him or was he was a decent man. He was a very decent man. Moore was a very decent man. He was a pleasant man. He was a very well educated

00:09:12.669 - 00:09:33.450

man. Uh, I always thought of him as being a charitable and good employer. Uh, he was down to earth. Um, you know, I shouldn't say what I don't know for sure because this could be libel. I mean, the poor man is dead, but there was more

00:09:33.450 - 00:09:51.159

died uh you talking about, not the son. Mort. His father, the father was known as Ed Consul, right? OK. I didn't realize somebody told me he was running a plant down in Santa Maria died about a year and a half ago or so more or less,

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yeah, that old, right? I mean, uh. I think he died at um age. In his 50s maybe. Mid 50s, I'm not really sure he took over that when he was just out of college 224 years old, yeah, you told me that. Yeah, yeah. Um, I I

00:10:15.270 - 00:10:37.530

would guess that he was probably. Around 58 or so, 59 when he died. Anyway, he died, but before the strike. And during the strike there were some rumors that he was using. Yeah, I heard those rumors, yeah, and, and, uh, whether he was using something that

00:10:37.530 - 00:10:58.030

was not legal to use or not, I mean, I, it's none of my business. It's speculation, it's rumor. I don't have any proof of that, but there was definitely, definitely a transformation in in his persona. He was not the same person. You couldn't talk with him.

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From being a, a very nice person, he became an ogre. Yeah, uh, his personality changed. A lot of people blamed, uh, Smiley Busco. Mhm. Smiley Redusco was the um well, he, yeah, he was second in command to board consul and uh he spoke Spanish. He was

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Mexican of Mexican descent, and he was the one that charmed the people in 1982 to take less, uh, on their wages. I wanna ask you about that in a minute, but finish your point and so. Over, you know, during the time and uh before and before,

00:11:38.780 - 00:12:01.409

immediately before the strike, during the strike and after the strike. There were a lot of people that blamed Smiley Berdusco. For the strike because they say that he engineered. The whole idea and he engineered the strike actions against the workers and the financial preparations that the

00:12:01.409 - 00:12:23.690

company had made now in uh in one of the negotiating sessions that we had with bar council when um. When he thought that he had won the strike that he had beat the, the union and um It was over in Monterey. I think Alex told me

00:12:23.690 - 00:12:48.289

about this and uh he brought in with him, um. Anderson, right? Andy Anderson, yeah, so he surfaced, uh, his advisor. So I then changed my, my thinking. I thought, well, gee, this whole time I've been blaming, uh, Smiley Berduzco for the strategies on, on beating the

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union, and now he's showing us, laughing at us, showing us that Andy Anderson, a very high ranking, the highest ranking official on on the west coast, uh, with the teams succeeding was actually the, the voice behind More coo Andy Anderson. Uh, was the director of the

00:13:08.250 - 00:13:29.960

Western Conference, um. Richard King was good friends with him. Richard King introduced Andy Anderson to more console. Now they became good friends because each one of them owned the jet. And they would race from one city to another, and whoever got there last would have to

00:13:29.960 - 00:13:47.809

buy dinner, you know, that kind of stuff. So they were. Uh You know, both of them playing with taxpayers' money and union one with taxpayers' money, the other with union funds and having the, the, the life of Riley, the life of the rich and famous, and

00:13:47.809 - 00:14:11.590

that was the, the voice, the, the power of thinking behind Moanso Andy Anderson. Now, now that what was supposed to be what was meant to be humiliating to us. It was actually a godsend because immediately after he surfaced his advisor. And the Anderson The international reps

00:14:11.590 - 00:14:29.799

who were there, Edie Rodriguez was the one that made a call to Washington DC and talked to the, the, the, uh, very general President Jackie Presser, and he said, Guess what, boss, um, Andy Anderson is the adviser behind, uh, this strike that's been going on for,

00:14:29.809 - 00:14:51.309

for over a year. And when, uh, Jackie Presser heard that, he says. Yeah, from now give those tractors everything they need. They have our total support. If they send on t-shirts. We were mori bond. We were. And uh we were gone we were gone. We had

00:14:51.309 - 00:15:07.900

no money. We had everything we had exhausted all, all, all ways of, uh, surviving, and we were gone when that happened, when more counsel came to give us the coup de grace at the bargaining table, he actually have saved our lives because that's when the international

00:15:07.900 - 00:15:28.669

really came in, uh, to help Loco 912. Was that before or after the convention in Las Vegas that that that that negotiating session happened? But the the the convention was in May. And I know that I guess after the convention Andy Anderson was replaced. By somebody

00:15:28.669 - 00:15:56.090

else as head of the Western Conference. I think it was after. But I'm not sure. Yeah. I could probably find that out. Yeah, I, I think it was after. Actually because uh uh the reason I say it was after after is because, uh, Jackie Presser. As

00:15:56.090 - 00:16:18.559

I understand it was very upset that he didn't know about the um. Resolution That was the boycott resolution, and so we snuck it in behind his back, so he was very upset that he didn't know about it and he didn't know the implications of it because

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um. Uh, they wanted to boycott um. Wells Fargo nationwide, and he thought, my God, that's gonna cost a lot of money. It's gonna take an awful lot of uh manpower and not everybody's gonna wanna change banks and so on and so forth. And so that's the

00:16:36.599 - 00:16:56.469

reason I believe that it was before. That it was after the convention. It was, it was when Andy Anderson surfaced that Jackiere hispanic him. Yeah, yeah, absolutely one of our own, that dirty piece piece of shit from LA. Oh man, and that did it, and thanks

00:16:56.469 - 00:17:14.010

to more counsel or whoever was advising him that he should rub it in our faces to and and bring uh and bring Andy Anderson out of the closet. Uh, it was supposed to make us i you know, feel humiliated and lost and defeated and, uh, and

00:17:14.010 - 00:17:29.729

it was, he, he knew it all because of the connection with, uh, Andy Anderson. He knew the, the financial state the local was in, and he knew how weak we were and he just thought this is just too good to pass up. I gotta, I gotta

00:17:29.729 - 00:17:51.300

let Sergio and company know how I got to be that my teamsters with one of their own, right? But it just backfired and it backfired. Well, the guy seems like he was. His really his arrogance really did him in and and not thinking straight, of course,

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I mean because you know there was no need for that running up all those debts to the local farmers, um. You mentioned the whole going out to pick scabs in Salinas, him and his um. His and his entourages underlings, they, they went and rented a whole

00:18:06.810 - 00:18:24.469

fleet of Cadillacs, Cadillacs to go bring in the beginning to go bring uh strike breakers from Salinas and Cadillacs, you know, with the plush leather seats and all that. Later on they, they got buses, you know, uh, uh, farm workers buses to, to, uh. You know

00:18:24.469 - 00:18:42.000

what, I bring the workers back and forth, but in the beginning they were using Cadillacs. They thought that was gonna make uh scabbing more attractive to people. Yeah, that's the, yeah, I believe they leased around 12 Cadillacs. To shuttle people back and forth, I mean they

00:18:42.000 - 00:18:56.449

probably spent more on the Cadillacs and they spent on the wages of the cabs. I mean it was just, I mean it this when I look back on it, uh, on it now like I like I am doing right now, it just seems so, so absurd.

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It really was so absurd, but all of those things. Again, getting back to the initial question, all of those things, the Cadillacs, parading the, the scabs in front of them, uh, taking them to work and then taking them home from work in Cadillacs and all that.

00:19:15.800 - 00:19:36.790

That just gave the the the striking workers. resolve that uh instead of uh achieving the goal that they that they had planned for that the workers were gonna be so disheartened by the actions of the company that they they were that they were going to recognize

00:19:36.790 - 00:19:56.609

how replace how easily replaceable they were and that would just force them to come begging for the jobs back. They never. One stopped to think that it was gonna have the reverse effect. All of those things just solidified that union between the between the strikers, no

00:19:56.609 - 00:20:19.189

matter what political disagreements they may have had. 11 were for some for TDU, others were with me. Others were mainstream. Others didn't wanna get involved, uh, you know, they, no matter what, they held together, together. No one was able to split them, and that is amazing,

00:20:19.339 - 00:20:38.319

amazing, because there were a lot of, well there were a lot of forces in this town trying to. Knowingly or unknowingly, willingly or unwittingly, they were trying to tear at their their their their unity. They didn't know it, but that's what exactly what they were doing.

00:20:38.689 - 00:20:58.359

But anyway, the workers, they endured all that, all the ugliness that the outsiders brought in and all the ugliness that, uh, the company threw at them, they endured all that and their condition to stay together, never, never wavered. As you know, At the beginning, I know

00:20:58.359 - 00:21:12.010

there were some court injunctions that if you were within a few blocks of the plant, you know, you couldn't have more than 5 people. Can you talk about that a little, the effect it had? Well, like any strike, people that have never been on strike, uh,

00:21:13.000 - 00:21:32.920

Ask themselves. As the cops. Ask the leadership. How is that possible? This is America, and it's very difficult to to explain it is exactly because it is America that people have rights and scabs, like it or not, have the right to work. They have the right,

00:21:32.959 - 00:21:46.859

the legal right to to break a strike and go in and take your place. If they want to. But my God, we can't even have a picket line, you know, there's, we, we were here in in mass in the beginning and now that there's only a

00:21:46.859 - 00:22:06.489

hand, the judges, um, only allow uh allowing to a handful of a handful of us to be out out of the street. That's, that's not democracy. I said no, it isn't. It's unfair. But the law says that we we're not supposed to make it difficult for

00:22:06.489 - 00:22:23.560

the company to bring the scabs into work. And whenever they want to get through the gate, if you're standing in front of it, somebody could get hurt and that's the excuse that they, they, um, they use. They don't want people blocking the the entrances, all the

00:22:23.560 - 00:22:39.380

ingress and egress because they're saying that it's really for your benefit. It's not for your benefit, it's for their benefit that they're doing. So we would, we would go through all those things. I would try to explain how the laws are have changed over the years.

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Management have management has sent their hoods to Harvard and some of those guys came out with uh law degrees, and they're the biggest goons uh the world has ever seen, has ever seen. Those Harvard Law, uh, Graduates and lawyers and all that that that went to

00:22:59.560 - 00:23:17.319

work for management and changed the laws over the course of the years are the union's biggest enemies today because of things like that, not being not being able to express your anger during a picket, uh, during a strike as you used to be able to do.

00:23:18.040 - 00:23:38.199

And they, you know, management over the years have found ways to limit that power. Did the injunction eventually get lifted? Or was it in effect to land? Um, it was an effect to the end. The police, the local police in the beginning, of course, it was,

00:23:38.449 - 00:23:54.770

it was. This whole, this whole strike as a new experience for the uh the police and for the workers. And in that the size of the strike is also a brand new experience for the leadership. We never had that many people that on strike at once.

00:23:55.640 - 00:24:12.569

I got in the beginning we had 1800 people out on strike or more. And uh As time went on. In the beginning, the police were doing their job right down to crossing all the T's and dotting all the I's. I mean, this is what the judge

00:24:12.569 - 00:24:29.829

says. If you guys step out of line, we're gonna take you in, you're gonna be arrested and uh they call it riot squads and all that stuff. As time went on, and they themselves. The mayor, the chief of police, the policemen themselves, the district attorney's office,

00:24:30.280 - 00:24:49.189

um. You know it's interesting. There were a lot of arrests made during the course of that strike. There was only one person uh prosecuted. Really? I knew that there were arrests, and I remember actually one of those outside agitators I came down from the Bay Area

00:24:49.189 - 00:25:03.300

for one of those big rallies, but I remember the strikers, a whole bunch of police and the strikers linking arms to separate the police from the crowd and the atmosphere being very tense, you know, and there was this fear that people might get hurt. And they

00:25:03.300 - 00:25:21.530

go off the record. Um, So what I was trying to tell you is that uh we were very fortunate that all of them, all of our violations were considered very, very minor because uh there was only one person that was prosecuted. By the DA's office, so

00:25:21.530 - 00:25:37.890

there were minor minor infractions to the injunction, but as time went on, what's most important is that the police themselves began to see the injustice of, of the strike, how management was really picking fights with the workers and how when things got out of hand, it

00:25:37.890 - 00:25:58.829

was just, you know, letting off steam because of all the ugliness that that was going on that was coming from management devised by management. So, believe it or not, as time went on, the police became very, very sympathetic with the strikers. And then the injunction, yes,

00:25:58.959 - 00:26:20.650

it was still in place. But it wasn't being enforced right down to the. To do the extreme uh extreme, uh, what am I trying to say letter of the law or I mean, thinking back, I remember. So I followed the strike from the Bay Area, there

00:26:20.650 - 00:26:37.020

was. A lot of talk about people being busted on their front porches if they. Had the misfortune to live within a couple blocks of the plant gate. But the only time there was ever a really big large group of people getting out of control was that

00:26:37.020 - 00:26:52.589

day after the Shah settlement. And I remember, no, there were, there were many, there, there were many times I'm not going to, um, you know, sugarcoat it. There were many times when the riot police were called in and, uh, it was primarily because of the scabs,

00:26:52.630 - 00:27:14.359

of course. Tempers do flare whenever you see bus after bus after bus after bus, but I mean in terms of actual conflict between strikers and the police. That that uh people would be busted just if if they lived within the uh within the injunction area. And

00:27:14.989 - 00:27:29.770

The police sort of mistook them for people who were there to or or who to make trouble rather than people who just happen to live on the block. That may have happened, but that was not, that was not something that happened within your frequency. Mainly the

00:27:29.770 - 00:27:45.560

police would be called a busload of scabs coming in and the guys come down here and give scabs the escort, right, yeah, right, right. But in terms of actually getting in there and heads being busted and so forth with a large crowd of strikers, I know

00:27:45.560 - 00:28:00.209

that happened after the Shah settlement. There was a big kind of out of control situation there when the after the vote was taken, uh, the people were not happy with the Shaw people for, you know, that was the other thing I wanted to ask you about

00:28:00.209 - 00:28:17.979

is how they, what what the reaction to that was. Um, among the Washingtonville County people, they was there this feeling that they had basically caved in under pressure and made it harder for Washingtonville County to To win or or uh. Well, that was their view, of

00:28:17.979 - 00:28:40.209

course, at the time because it's uh they didn't know and nobody knew that their strip was gonna continue for 13 months, but they thought that uh. Uh The, the Shah, the members of the Shaw company had Sold out and by settling for $585 an hour and

00:28:40.209 - 00:29:01.760

that that only doomed the outcome, their outcome to settle for the same amount and as it turned out the point that Joe Joeve was making, uh, I just wanna clear that up. We were insisting. On the um the company assuming the contract in its entirety in

00:29:01.760 - 00:29:23.020

its present form. Pre-strike. With the exception of lowering the wages down to 585, everything else was supposed to be the same. The Shaw people did that. Because they continued to be the shock company, right, so the workers didn't have to start and work 3 seasons, unlike

00:29:23.020 - 00:29:41.459

Joe Fay said, he still doesn't on the contract. He says 4 years he's wrong. It never took 4 years to qualify for, for a brand new seasonal about the settlement now, right. Well, at the Shaw Company and at the Washington Canning Company, it was the same

00:29:41.459 - 00:29:56.699

contract exactly. It took, if you're a brand new worker and you were a seasonal worker, you, you had your name had to appear on the security list 3 times, 3 consecutive times, and that would be, uh, that could be 2 years and 2 months or it

00:29:56.699 - 00:30:16.140

could be a maximum of 3 years, never 4. OK, yeah, OK, so Joe still doesn't he still doesn't know the contract. He never did. He never did. Uh, Joe never knew that contract, no matter what he says. And and was and when Wavi Canning was bought

00:30:16.140 - 00:30:37.260

by David Gill, it became a brand new company, even though he said I'll accept the whole contract, the Shaw contract. By definition, those was canning people were going to be his new employees and therefore that that provision of 3 times on the senior list uh is

00:30:37.260 - 00:30:55.709

when you qualify for uh medical benefits would apply to them. When, uh, when the people voted to postpone the vote on that issue and, um, like I said, Joe was, was one of the ones that was behind it, to his credit, now I say it's a

00:30:55.709 - 00:31:19.390

good thing that he did. I don't know why he did it without consulting me because he never wanted, never wanted. He wasn't this is not that he wasn't allowed. He would never wanted to participate in negotiations. I invited him to participate in all the negotiations with

00:31:19.390 - 00:31:34.219

Shaw, and he would say no. Did he have any standing to do that because he didn't become an officer until, uh, like, well, actually the Shaw I was after he was elected, but he was what, a trustee or a BA? What was he? He was a

00:31:34.219 - 00:31:52.680

BA, so he, he did have the standing too, the standing. I mean, I even. I mean, if, if, uh, I had a workers' committee. President strikers, uh, uh, not strike anymore but a bargaining committee, but he, he was an official of the union. I'm an officer

00:31:52.680 - 00:32:09.040

of the union. He was a business agent. I never wanted to participate. Joe wanted to be on the fringes so he could stand outside and criticize what I was doing on the inside to his credit, when he brought it to my attention. Uh, he did have

00:32:09.290 - 00:32:26.160

funding within himself to tell people that had been on on on strike 18 months, don't vote for this, it's not good for you. And they, they, they wouldn't go with him all the way, but they voted to postpone the vote. I, I forget if it was

00:32:26.160 - 00:32:42.369

one week or two. It was 1 week. I remember that very well. Uh, I'm not sure about that, but I, it was something like that. So I went back to the bargaining table. I asked Joe to come with me and no. So now I've got the.

00:32:43.569 - 00:32:55.089

David Gill is upset because I thought we had a deal. The workers, the majority of them were coming to me and say, what's going on? Why, why did you allow this to be as well as a democratic process? How can I tell the workers to vote

00:32:55.089 - 00:33:08.540

one way or the other? I can only recommend you guys voted to, to, uh, postpone to see if anything can change with the health and welfare plan. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna go see what I can do. And uh I had a workers' committee with me

00:33:08.540 - 00:33:21.300

when I went to negotiations. Um, Chuck Back was very upset. What is that? What do you, what are you doing with that Joe thing? What did you put him in his place? You had to file charges against him and all that. The whole thing began to

00:33:21.300 - 00:33:37.790

unravel again. The, the international was upset. Joint council was upset. Everybody was on my ass about, uh, you, you gotta get, uh, you gotta get rid of the guy. The guy's cancer. He's not looking out for the work. He's he's only at, he wants to make

00:33:37.790 - 00:33:55.010

TDU look good, but he doesn't offer any solutions. What are the solutions? So anyway, but what was it you were saying to his credit? To his credit, he was, he, he did. Uh, have the guts to, to advise the workers to postpone the vote, to delay

00:33:55.010 - 00:34:09.050

it. Well, he wanted them to vote. No. They ended up voting to postpone it. So I went back to the bar when I, I had a long talk with Joe and I said, What are you doing? And he says, I don't know what I'm doing. I

00:34:09.050 - 00:34:19.250

don't know where it's gonna go, but I have faith in you. I know that you can make it better. I says, he actually said something like that to me that he told you that and that he was confident when he came to you with that letter,

00:34:19.820 - 00:34:30.314

you know, that he says I went there because I knew that Sergio, you know, would do the right thing, and he would sign that letter no matter how pissed off he was with me, that's exactly what happened. Had to hold our ranks together and he understood

00:34:30.314 - 00:34:48.790

that. So I go back to the bar to the bargaining table and I was able to come up with an alternative. Well, can you break that down for me? What changed in the contract language in that one week that the settlement was postponed? It was The

00:34:48.790 - 00:35:16.399

pension contributions were modified. Because um I forget exactly how, how it worked out right now. I mean, I have to have the contract in front of me, the 1987 contract, to tell you exactly how it happened. But I think that um We left the the trades.

00:35:17.270 - 00:35:34.419

At a lesser contribution rate than the seasonal workers and then within a two year period they they caught up to that to the to the standard and that difference in money made it possible to bring to put all the the workers that had been on the

00:35:34.419 - 00:35:57.300

health and welfare plan to put them back into uh a medical plan. Then the trouble was to find an insurance company that uh would take. The, the list of benefits that we that they had had and accept that liability for the contribution made so so you

00:35:57.300 - 00:36:11.889

actually did I did I did address it and once I got the employer to agree to that, uh taking money away from the pension plan for a couple of years to fund the medical plan for diseases for the. Uh, the, the new employees that were quote

00:36:11.889 - 00:36:33.060

unquote seasonal people even though they kept all the seniority for vacation purposes and holidays and, um, uh, vacation purposes, holidays and all they keep sick leave. Uh, even though they were new employees, they never lost their seniority status, because really for it was a new owner.

00:36:33.080 - 00:36:43.500

They weren't really new employees. Some of them have been there for years. It was the new owner, exactly. So anyway, but you had to figure out a way to finance it. That was the main thing. So what, what, what the only, the only thing that came

00:36:43.500 - 00:37:01.219

to mind after searching my brain and you know, who do I know, who do I know, who do I know? I called up, um, there was a grower trust. And uh and Salinas, and I talked to Malcolm. Malcolm, I forget his last name. Uh, he went

00:37:01.219 - 00:37:16.260

up to, we were having negotiation negotiations that Joint Council 7 came up. We sat there, we crunched the numbers. He kept, he was on the phone back and forth, and he says, OK, we will do it if the employer agrees to this. This about whatever it

00:37:16.260 - 00:37:40.699

was, we will, we will ensure The uh What what the contract calls seasonal workers, the non-trades because you have bracket 5 and 4 non-trades 32 and 1 were trades, trades meaning forklift drivers, mechanics, uh, supervisors in the floor uh floor leaders for and all that and

00:37:40.699 - 00:38:03.639

then. The line workers were line 44 and 5. So anyway, We were uh we were able to fix. What uh. What Joe and many of the people that that listened to him found so objectionable and now today I give him credit for it. I didn't at

00:38:03.639 - 00:38:17.179

the time we were because we were right on the brink, right on the. Oh, we're right on the edge of losing it all. David Gill says, Look, I don't know who's in charge, but this is not good, you know, you, I make a deal with you.

00:38:17.189 - 00:38:30.330

You tell me it's gonna fly, and all these people tell me all the people that are backing you, the international, the Western Conference, the joint council, they're telling me that this is gonna fly, and now they got to withdraw sanctions, didn't they at some point in

00:38:30.330 - 00:38:49.679

there? Oh yeah if you wrote this down. Oh man, it was. Chuck Mac again he says yeah I should have done it the first time. You wanted the trusteeship that the whole thing became to unravel, but fortunately for, for us, I was able to put the

00:38:49.679 - 00:39:06.120

deal together with Western growers and fortunately for us, David Gill swallowed his pride and uh agreed to let it go for another week. We put it all together, we modify the contract. It cost him a ton of money because he had all his attorneys working for

00:39:06.120 - 00:39:24.159

him, uh. For another week, 24 hours a day, you know, at least I'm sure they were billing 24 hours a day. That's what attorneys say. Well, that, that seems like a good. Spot to move on to the next thing, which is Nor did not last that

00:39:24.159 - 00:39:48.060

long after the strike, right? Did they relocate to Mexico? What happened? No, they they actually merged the rosetti plant merged with Nor. Because the Crusade plant couldn't make a go of it, um. After the strike began the demise of the frozen food industry in, in Watsonville.

00:39:48.909 - 00:40:12.850

Um, more and more plants, more and more customers were sourcing their product out of um. Mexico, and at one time, there were 38 processing plants of frozen vegetables in California. Now there are, as far as I know, there are only 3. And one is Patterson Frozen

00:40:12.850 - 00:40:31.610

Foods. I think they changed names. They've been recently acquired, and there's two tiny ones in town, tiny in comparison to what the others used to produce. That's Delmar Foods who do very, very, very little broccoli and caul or I don't think they do any cauliflower and

00:40:31.610 - 00:40:59.030

um the non-union operation is called farmers's processing. And they, by comparison, do one. 1/10 of what uh Watso county and the Shaw plant used to do and others throughout the state. I mean, there were huge operations in California, in Oxnard, um. In Modesto, in Salinas. Santa

00:40:59.030 - 00:41:27.280

Maria. Um, Sanger Presto. Sacramento What changed uh in the the market or whatever. To make that happen. To what do you attribute the fact that all those plants just went south. I think that was the beginning of what we now call the global economy. I think

00:41:27.280 - 00:41:54.290

that's what American American companies said 25 years ago is when they started discovering the gold mine of going to. Um, Being Being really serious about pulling up stakes out of America and setting up shop in in foreign countries to exploit the cheap labor. Uh, they had

00:41:54.290 - 00:42:16.560

experimented. With that in the past, Green Giant was the first one to go to Mexico. Uh, they went to Guadalpapa, I believe, in 19. Uh, 61 or 2. But they never really grew. Birds Eye went to where they still are today, Salaya, Mexico. And that's it.

00:42:16.629 - 00:42:39.060

There were only two plants, the two branded plants, Green Giant and Birdseye, in two different locations in Mexico, but no one ever followed them. No one ever followed that trend. Uh, until. Um, around it after the strike. One of the things that Alex told me was

00:42:39.060 - 00:42:51.780

that even at the beginning of the strike when he first went down to Watsonville, you were saying the teamsters need to go down to Mexico and start organizing some of the plants down there and at that point, I guess there weren't that many of them, so

00:42:51.780 - 00:43:09.110

you obviously had been concerned about this even before the strike. I could see the wall. I mean, my God, if you. If you're paying $7 an hour here and it's probably closer to $950 an hour to $10 an hour, by the time you pay workers' comp

00:43:09.110 - 00:43:28.959

and all the the fringe benefits and It's probably 10 hours or more an hour. I think there's a 36% roll up. Um, were there changes in technology, uh, well, down in Mexico, we, we took, we developed new technology and took it down there, but it was,

00:43:29.050 - 00:43:48.399

it was just the beginning of what what we now call the global economy. I mean, I, uh. Whatever, I don't know what happened with the American uh uh companies, the mentality. But they bet it all, they, they bet. And rightfully so and rightly so that the

00:43:48.409 - 00:44:08.600

the American people would not care where their vegetables came from. They will continue to buy them because with the way the labeling uh was uh The laws were written about the labeling. They really would have to pay, pay really close attention to find out where the

00:44:08.600 - 00:44:24.550

product was coming from. And as long as the labeling laws, rules and regulations didn't change, I mean you'd have to look very, very hard to look at a pack, you know, and find product of Mexico hid in, you know, in a, in a sea of ink.

00:44:25.139 - 00:44:41.959

Uh, it was the losses is supposed to be prominently displaced. Like if you buy wine from, uh, France, it's going to be prominent on the labels is product of France because nobody's trying to hide anything, uh, but with vegetables is a different thing. You have to

00:44:41.959 - 00:44:57.290

look very, very closely. To find out where's that, and they bet on that and it paid off because they, they went down there and they could hire people for a 10 hour shift down there for $1 a day. I thought that one reason Watsonville became, you

00:44:57.290 - 00:45:15.459

know, the frozen food capital of the world is because on the one hand you've got this rich. Agricultural region. On the other hand, the climate is is much cooler, so it's easier to And more energy efficient to operate the technology that freezes the produce. Oh, is

00:45:15.459 - 00:45:32.159

that still true? Does Watson feel, does that still hold true, but it's just not as important in market terms anymore or what? Well, that's still true, and I don't, I don't really know. Uh, although They say that some of the people that have gone down there,

00:45:32.370 - 00:46:01.770

I've talked to some of them, they say that the, the area, what they call the Uh, El Valle del Bajillo. Um, the lower valley El Bahia del Bajillo, which is in Queretaro, um. And um, What is the name of that primarily is um. Irauo Irauatoelaya Queretaro

00:46:01.770 - 00:46:20.949

is where These plants are now located. The, the, the frozen food that used to be in Wattsville and in California is located there in the El Bajillo, El Valle del Bajillo in Mexico, and supposedly that valley is very similar according to them, their chamber of commerce

00:46:20.949 - 00:46:37.780

very similar or better than the uh. The the Salinas Valley, it's a higher elevation too, right? Sure, I, I don't believe it. I, I know it's not true because we, we did a videotape called Dirty Business, and we went down there and we looked at the

00:46:37.780 - 00:46:56.479

product they were growing and it's not anywhere near anywhere near, um, I mean you could never go down there and see the, the beautiful agricultural fields that we have in this country versus what they have down there. And certainly the irrigation methods that they have or

00:46:56.479 - 00:47:14.479

did have when I was still working for the union are nothing like we have here. They were still um watering with dirty water, uh, sewage water. I'm gonna remind you now that that speech you made in San Jose back in '93 that we talked about a

00:47:14.479 - 00:47:36.489

couple of days ago, you know, you basically said when is American capital going south to Mexico ever helped Mexico, um. When these plants were set up in these parts of southern Mexico, Uh What was the impact on the local population? I mean, all of a sudden

00:47:36.489 - 00:47:52.580

you've got these huge corporate farms with packing sheds, you know, nearby where they freeze the product and stuff like that. This never existed before. What was going on there before? Were people driven off the land as a result, or were they simply No, I, I, I

00:47:52.580 - 00:48:14.090

think that what what happened is it was their way of uh unfortunately like uh like it often happens, it only perpetuated their poverty um it only assured. Then that the their way of living was going to continue to be bad. Uh, but if you want to

00:48:14.090 - 00:48:31.310

look at it on the optimistic side. A lot of the women in those towns have found jobs in the assembly lines in the packing, packing lines. So even though they were making, uh, so now instead of making if if only the man works they're making $1

00:48:31.310 - 00:48:45.520

a day. Uh, if the wife was working back in those days, now they make $2 a day, so now they've doubled their income, but they still live in them, you know. But you haven't seen this really drastic redistribution of the land in these areas. Oh no,

00:48:46.010 - 00:49:07.350

no, no, no, not at all. You've got the same farmers growing the same crops or, uh, and, and you have, you know, you have American influence now through through intermediaries. Americans can't own the land, but they do in fact. By fronting uh a Mexican citizen, uh

00:49:07.350 - 00:49:27.370

as the, the real owner. But, um, you know, they play a lot of games, they do, they front names, um, but Even, even the Americans can never compete with the political forces and political fortunes of the, the Fox family, they pretty much own the, uh, the

00:49:27.370 - 00:49:48.239

Irecuato Guanajuato strip and production and, uh, production in production of, uh, frozen vegetables, but It would be, I, I don't know, I, I, I haven't been there for a long time. I hope that it's gotten better for them, not since they've cornered the market, the US,

00:49:48.399 - 00:50:08.270

the US market. Uh, I hope it's gotten better for them. I hope their their living standards have become better. I doubt it. Uh, the Mex the Mexican powerful are not known for their benevolence and generosity. Um, however, you know, one can only hope that they, that

00:50:08.270 - 00:50:25.879

it's worked out better for them. I mean, uh, what, what it started to happen, Mike, it was just a lose, lose proposition. The people that were here. And if they had wanted to uh follow their jobs to Mexico, they could have never done that. Who in

00:50:25.879 - 00:50:44.629

the hell is gonna leave America to go home and to earn $1 or $2 a day? I mean, that's impossible. They couldn't follow, so they lost to their compatriots. And they couldn't follow their jobs. And when, when Green Giant and those companies when they it was

00:50:44.629 - 00:51:16.020

owned by the English um It was sewn by, what was the name of that corporation? Grand man, I think. Grand Metropolitan. That would really, really pissed me off. We had a horrible earthquake in October of 198917 October 17th, I think. And uh 3 months later, right

00:51:16.020 - 00:51:32.179

before Christmas, the Green Giant Company announced that they were going to Mexico. Talk about baying the wounded. You know, we just got through a horrible earthquake that the the cities is in shambles, and that's when they decided to, they started to announce their. That they were

00:51:32.179 - 00:51:49.889

leaving to go to Mexico. I was just. Do you think that they had planned to do it anyway, regardless of the earthquake. We fought and fought and fought and fought against it and we fought a valiant fight. Uh, all the way to the White House and

00:51:51.540 - 00:52:07.260

Because Leon Panetta, he and I used to be good buddies and all that, and uh it was all for naught, I mean, uh. It's, I don't know what's gonna what what is happening to America. I don't know where America, America is heading. But I don't like

00:52:07.260 - 00:52:23.979

what I see. I hope that Obama can correct course. He talked about it during his, uh, campaign for president that the jobs leaving America will have to stop and all that. Now is he gonna be able to do anything about that? I very much doubt it.

00:52:24.060 - 00:52:49.110

I support him 100% wholeheartedly. Um, but I don't know that he can stop this, uh, Exodus of American companies, uh, throughout the world, not not only Mexico, Mexico's nothing to worry about anymore is China, India, Pakistan, Honduras is all a lot of the South American countries

00:52:49.110 - 00:53:06.939

is, it's just a race to the lowest denominator, a race to the lowest denominator. That's where the, the multinational corporations that have that have no flags, have no nationality. are going to go and exploit the workers. What you were suggesting, you know, which is that the

00:53:06.939 - 00:53:20.479

Teamsters really need to go down there and start organizing some of the Mexican plants. Was that something that anybody in the union that you're aware of ever took seriously or thought about or considered? Even as close as I was to Ron Kerry when I um when

00:53:20.479 - 00:53:37.879

I mentioned it to him, he said, yeah, it's a good idea, we'll look into it, but nothing ever became of it yeah. Um, People thought I was nuts. People thought I was, you know, yeah, smoking funny stuff, definitely thinking outside the box, yeah, yeah, yeah, and

00:53:37.879 - 00:53:53.639

I said, but you know, if we go down and we, uh, of course we can establish the teams are sitting on there, but if we form a liaison. With a real union down in Mexico, not not just an extension of the government, which is what the

00:53:53.639 - 00:54:11.270

union is in Mexico, they're nothing more or less than an extension of the government that they don't have real unions in Mexico, but if we could create a real union, imagine that, imagine giving the Mexican people a real union. You kind of get your ass killed

00:54:11.270 - 00:54:27.760

doing in the process, but it'd be worth it. It would be worth it, my God. Imagine if you, if you go down there with America it is American unionism, the principles of American unionism, and you really, really, really apply. I know the Mexican people dusted up

00:54:27.760 - 00:54:48.050

and fight. But no one would ever listen. No one would ever invest the money in it. I mean. It's My God, UPS is big time all over the world, and we don't have, we're just beginning now to get reciprocal reciprocity agreements with different countries, but not

00:54:48.050 - 00:55:07.840

Mexico. Uh, we have them with some European countries, but not Mexico. Let me come back to one point about the strike which you mentioned, which I don't think I understood completely and it had to do with How Dick King basically gave uh console that 40 cents

00:55:07.840 - 00:55:27.219

an hour wage advantage, how he pulled that off, and why. Um, you said that you thought there was an unfair labor practice involved, otherwise, yeah, because he, he allowed the company to directly bargain with the employees, which is forbidden by the NLRA. And why did the

00:55:27.219 - 00:55:44.399

employees go along with it? Because there was no, there was a vacuum in the leadership, uh, King, um, how did, how did the smileydu go sell it to the employees? I mean, he's the same people who, you know, like he, he went right down the line,

00:55:44.830 - 00:55:56.399

so you know, the processing lines, and he talked to the women and he would hug them and say, God, you know, you're doing such wonderful work, you know, thank you, you know, the company is having a bad time. Thank you for being such a good worker,

00:55:56.459 - 00:56:11.860

but I mean he was a very charismatic person. How did he just, uh, to them that they should take a 40% an hour cut in pay and be paid less than other people in the area doing the same work. He says if you don't give us

00:56:11.860 - 00:56:29.550

a, uh, if, if you don't sacrifice a little bit of your wages and I know it's a lot to you. Then, um, you're not gonna have a job anyway, because this plan cannot sustain any more losses. We're losing money. Left and right and we're not gonna

00:56:29.550 - 00:56:43.780

be able to stay in business. It was a lot of bullshit. The people knew it. I knew it. Richard King knew it. But he didn't, he failed, the members did not fight in an unfair labor practice, uh, as he should, as the head of the union,

00:56:43.989 - 00:57:04.500

he should have filed it. And you had a pattern agreement, right? I mean, it basically, yeah, uh, all the contracts were the same until, until 3 years before the strike, he, he allowed more councils to break the continuity. We had the same contract statewide. Statewide, was

00:57:04.500 - 00:57:23.860

that simply a bargaining situation? Was that something that was actually enforceable? I mean, was he actually? Violating the pattern agreement by doing it, or was he simply violating the law by having the he was doing he was doing both. No, but I mean, no, no, he

00:57:23.860 - 00:57:43.649

was doing both. I mean, he was, he was betraying his, uh, the association that he was associated with that that that's obvious, and, and he was also violating labor law. By directly bargaining with the with the with his employees and not bargaining through the union their

00:57:43.649 - 00:58:04.129

uh elected through their elected representatives that is forbidden by by law. The problem was that Richard King. Uh, was an ally of his and, and made a deal to look the other way and allowed him to bargain directly with the work. Was this during contract negotiations

00:58:04.129 - 00:58:20.159

when this happened? OK, so what happened was that while everybody else was dealing with Dick King. Uh, reduceco was going directly to the workers and talk to them about the terms of it, and then Dick King just signed off on it after they agreed to it.

00:58:20.729 - 00:58:40.010

Yeah, well, the theory was, you know, what King told the other employers throughout the state was don't worry about more counsel. He's gonna sign the same contract whether he likes it or not or we'll strike him. And um So everybody else in the whole state of

00:58:40.010 - 00:58:59.479

California signed the contract and then um after they were all signed up. More counsel through or via Spiydusco went directly to the workers and said we gotta have relief. We're going broke. We're gonna close the doors, blah blah blah. We need 40 cents an hour, uh,

00:58:59.620 - 00:59:13.100

we need to pay 40 cents an hour less than, uh, the people that are making the rest of the rest of the state in California are making. The people went for it. They believed in, uh, Spanierusco's charm and charisma, as well as P Caso's charm and

00:59:13.100 - 00:59:29.580

charisma, and, um. outside the union that the uh. That the, the company had had been talking to them and uh of course we knew all about it. King knew all about it. We had a copy of the proposal and they notified the the you know that

00:59:29.580 - 00:59:47.989

they wanted to vote on the company's proposal. And they did, and they gave, they voted to settle for less. Yeah. Well, you were one of the people actually who went in to look at the books at Richard Shaw. When you were negotiating, were you on that

00:59:47.989 - 01:00:02.409

or is that just like people from the I, I, I wasn't, you weren't. No, I was not part of the team. Alex was, right, um, Tony Lot, yeah, he actually named the people for me. I was trying to remember who they were. You were not one

01:00:02.409 - 01:00:18.600

of them. I was not one of them. Did you have any problem with what they were doing there? I mean, I, one thing that Alex made very clear to me is he felt that Shah should not be on strike. It was not good for the union.

01:00:18.790 - 01:00:36.560

It wasn't good for the workers, and that it was simply, you know, Dick King's incompetence that had set that situation up. He wanted to resolve the Shah situation as quickly as he could and just focus on Watsonville camping. What was your take at the time? On

01:00:36.560 - 01:00:58.110

that Well, I, uh, I don't want to get you to a pie fight with Alex, but, no, no, I mean, I don't disagree with Alex. I mean, I, I don't disagree with Alex. Um, Our fight Should have been right from the start with Wasserville County. Um,

01:00:59.379 - 01:01:14.860

If we had settled, if we had not struck Richard E. Shaw. It would have been better because all of our all of our force and attention would would ship would have been on want to county and there we had the people on our side more than

01:01:14.860 - 01:01:29.659

we did at Shaw. Um, But what I mean, but Shaw could have gotten some of that business that, uh, yeah, and I don't think Shaw, but see there again, you know, you never know. I, I don't think Shaw could, could be trusted to not do what

01:01:29.659 - 01:01:45.510

more council had done to him three years prior. I mean, I don't think he, he would have, but how would I know? I mean, uh, you, you, with your sense at the time that Shaw was in some financial trouble that he wouldn't, oh yeah, yeah, oh

01:01:45.510 - 01:02:03.250

yeah, there was no, yeah, there was no question about that. Yeah, I mean, uh, it's a small community, and you always hear when a company gets behind on their payments to the growers. That's the first alarm that you hear. Holy shit. The shock company is not

01:02:03.250 - 01:02:19.729

paying the growers on time. The growers may follow a lien, which is a very severe penalty, when, when, when a grower files a lien, uh, against the processor, and, uh, because that could tumble you on to bankruptcy and the rest. But anyway, there were rumors. Mhm.

01:02:20.469 - 01:02:35.129

All over the valley about Shaw Shaw said a better to pay, making late payments and all that because more more cos once again repeating myself really made it, made life miserable for the Shah people. He was going around saying buy from me, don't buy from those

01:02:35.129 - 01:02:54.340

dummies. I've got an advantage. I can sell to you cheaper, blah blah blah blah blah blah. How many growers are there in the valley who were doing business with these guys, um. A lot of them, a lot, a lot of, um, and some very large, no

01:02:54.340 - 01:03:15.199

Doy, no, no, no. Puppy, you're on tape. You really don't want this recorded for posterity, so fuck you. Yeah, some very small, but very few small farmers, uh, very large farmers. David Gill was one of them, uh. But it's enough of a small town situation. It's

01:03:15.199 - 01:03:33.830

like this isn't something that's. Being discussed in the corporate boardroom 100 miles away, it's like. Cross the bar or something like that, you'll find out this farmer's not getting paid. Is that how you found out about Gill's interest in buying the plant rather than trying to

01:03:33.830 - 01:03:51.600

collect debt. It was through other employers in town that I found out that he might be interested that he was in so deep. You know, these, how much it costs over do you know? I believe it was over 5 million. And it's more like 7 million

01:03:51.600 - 01:04:11.760

and these were crops that he had delivered before the strike during the strike which consul had not paid him for and of course the longer the strike went on, the more the debts were mounting. And he just ran out of patience, right? Uh I gather it's

01:04:11.760 - 01:04:23.330

kind of unusual for a farmer in that situation. I'll just buy the damn plant on it myself. That's not the normal. That's not what he wanted. That's not what he ever thought he would end up doing, right? I mean, he was forced into that. I mean,

01:04:24.120 - 01:04:36.870

he, you know, like when I talked to him, uh, you know, off the record, I said how you understand that you're trying to get your money and um that you're looking at the possibility of buying a plant blah blah blah. And I says, I just want

01:04:36.870 - 01:04:49.580

you to know that we'll be on your side and work hard for you, but the only chance you'll ever, you'll ever have of making your money back is by hiring this workforce, all I've already said to you. So sign a contract, put us back to work.

01:04:49.830 - 01:05:03.080

You'll get your money back. They'll get their jobs back, and you'll see you won't be sorry. Well, in the end I was right. I mean, he did get most of his money back, uh, when he merged with the Crusetti company. Uh, it was a good merger.

01:05:03.500 - 01:05:22.439

I said you had no place to go. They were, they were gonna close the doors completely, so instead they merged, so they made two companies out of two. A stronger company out of two weak companies. Yeah, yeah. Uh, a little bit stronger, not a powerful giant.

01:05:25.000 - 01:05:41.320

There were other farmers besides Gill who were involved in setting up, weren't there? I heard it was a cooperative actually that that did it. Nor was just David Gill. It wasn't like there were other farmers who bought into it or anything like that. Not that I

01:05:41.320 - 01:05:58.040

know of. I mean, I, I mean I've never looked at their, at his financial records, but as far as I know it was in all of my negotiations was still. Now here's something else that I read just recently when I started going back over this, the

01:05:58.040 - 01:06:15.629

stuff that was being reported at the time. It was suggested that Wells Fargo had its own kind of stake in the situation, not just because they were extending credit to console, but they had some kind of real estate interests in some of the valley farmland. Um

01:06:16.850 - 01:06:31.260

And they stood to gain the strike was prolonged because they might be able to get their hands on some of that land and farmers couldn't collect their debts. Oh, I have no idea. I had no knowledge of that. I never heard that rumor. Yeah, you heard

01:06:31.260 - 01:06:46.120

that rumor before? No, yeah, you know, I'm really, I mean it's fascinating, but it's like I don't know how you would. Verify something like that, you know, I had never heard that before. I'll ask a few other people and see if I find anything out I'll

01:06:46.120 - 01:07:04.600

let you know, um. I mean it's funny. Wells Fargo is under so much. They're getting so much flack right now for using all that stimulus money they've been getting from the government to, you know, break strikes and that kind of thing. And they've had several picket

01:07:04.600 - 01:07:26.629

lines up in Portland, you know, uh, precisely that reason. But you know what's ironic is that more councils after the strike. When the strike ended some years later, he sued Wells Fargo Bank. And collected millions of dollars from them for what? Because he There was a

01:07:26.629 - 01:07:46.550

precedent set in case. Uh, that with Wells Fargo. For this guy from this area, the, the Monterey area, so I believe a farmer. Actually sued Wells Fargo for loaning him money at a time that they shouldn't have loaned him money because they should have known better

01:07:46.550 - 01:08:03.949

that his business was failing. That's more or less the theory, so that's the theory that more coo used. Uh, against Wells Fargo for the $60 million line of credit that they give them. And anyway, Wells Fargo, as I understand it, settled out of court for something

01:08:03.949 - 01:08:28.240

like 5 minutes. With more Did the 912 I think that the The Sentinel has all the the articles on that. Did Local 912 have any funds in in Wells Fargo? Yeah, you withdrew them. When we couldn't, you couldn't, we couldn't do it. You looked into it,

01:08:28.950 - 01:08:42.640

but I mean, who would take us? We were bouncing checks. We were up and down and all that, so yeah, it was, that was the most, uh, that was the most um. You really had no leverage there, my God, they would have said, yeah, make our

01:08:42.640 - 01:08:59.668

day, get out of here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, I, I mean when we got well and healthy, we did change but not not. You couldn't do that. No, I don't know I was begging on my knees, please, please, please don't cut us off. Yeah,

01:08:59.829 - 01:09:18.389

yeah, and you were saying you inherited $5000 debt. Right, and then we sold the property, the only property the king, we sold the lot, um, it was an empty lot and we sold it for. Well, I believe 135,000 and you know, we paid off the debt

01:09:18.389 - 01:09:36.129

and we start gaining. And cutting on costs and all that. And anyway, when I left the local union when I retired, uh, the local that the building that we occupied was owned by King. I didn't know that until I became secretary treasurer. That was shady if

01:09:36.129 - 01:09:54.709

not illegal. It was owned by him. And so we always rent it there. We pay rent. Um, when I retired in 2001, I, I left the local union with a half a million dollars in cash, and I just bought a brand new building for, for them.

01:09:54.879 - 01:10:12.020

Well, I, I knew it wasn't a brand new building. It was a, uh, a building that we bought, we paid cash for it and, uh, then when I left the remodeled the whole thing so. I mean, I'm like what I'm. When I took the job over,

01:10:12.069 - 01:10:29.979

we had 5000 members. When I left, we probably had about 3000, but we were able to do more with 3000 members as far as money is concerned. We saved money, we cut expenses and I left the local union with uh quite a bit of money as

01:10:29.979 - 01:10:49.870

opposed to when I inherited the, the, the top position. Inherited the debt. So, who do you now? I mean, I get the frozen food component of the local is pretty much gone. Well, a lot of what deal as far as I know, the only um The

01:10:49.870 - 01:11:15.370

only companies that the local represents now are the heavy duty, what we used to call it heavy duty, uh, companies, the, uh, granite construction, Granite Rock, EPS. Um, DHL um. The hospital, Martinelli's Delmar Foods, you know, there's, there's still a, but there's probably not more than.

01:11:16.120 - 01:11:37.029

My guess would be around 1200 members, 1300 members now. But you were saying before now that it represents about 3000 people. Yeah, OK, so the 1200 is like the uh. Uh, that's what, that's where I believe they're at right now. Oh right, OK, right now. I

01:11:37.029 - 01:12:01.129

don't know that to be a fact. When I left, I think we had. Something like 32, 3300 members left because of all the closures, the plan closures, um, but we still had the, the Shaw company gone well their successors. They just closed it down about uh.

01:12:03.189 - 01:12:17.339

About 2 years ago, I think, more or less, I'm not sure. I actually um. I'm about out of questions for now, OK? Um, I probably have some for you later at some point.