00:00:00.019 - 00:00:18.110

OK. This is you've got a good speaking voice, and I wanna make sure I don't miss anything, um, you know, one of the things that is included that surprised me was that, uh, I guess what they whatever they call the email in those days, uh, to

00:00:18.110 - 00:00:38.790

you. I think it's dated February 20th. Which said that you know he would seriously considered putting the uh localized well trusteeship. This would have been like what 32 weeks before the strike ends right and um that he was asking Jassie Jackie Presser to assign John Blake

00:00:38.790 - 00:00:56.060

basically to run things. And one of the things he was concerned about, he listed several things was the back of your house in the firebox. No, that's not true. That is not true. Yeah, check math was never worried about my house. I mean, he was, uh,

00:00:56.090 - 00:01:22.500

an international rep and, uh. As He quoted more than once to me the the uh internationalists in the business of taking money in and not putting money out and they've been putting money out forever. I guess by your calculations probably um 1617 months already and they

00:01:22.500 - 00:01:38.480

figure it's gotta stop so what they wanted me to do was to ask for voluntary trusteeship and turn it over to John Blake and I says I'll see you guys in hell. I'll see you guys in hell. You know, do anything you're big enough to do.

00:01:38.769 - 00:01:56.680

What are you what are you guys going to do with 1200 screaming Mexicans? You think I have it bad? You think I can do a bad job of handling them. I want you guys to try it. And and then of course. By this time I'm um

00:01:57.330 - 00:02:13.360

all the what they wanted to put the local in trustee and sign any any proposal or accept the last proposal that more cops had put on the table. I, I knew what they wanted and I was, it wasn't gonna, it wasn't gonna happen on my watch

00:02:13.360 - 00:02:34.779

just no fucking way you think that even. Before console went bankrupt that they were thinking about this stuff so sure they were, they wanted to stop the bleeding right the bleeding mean to strike the its um. Now, was there a move for trusteeship before February 20th,

00:02:34.820 - 00:02:54.740

1987, and actually the first time, uh, I interviewed you, I think you said that there was. You've gotten some word about this right before the recertification of. They were actually talking about that early on. They were I don't. To be honest with you Peter, I don't

00:02:54.740 - 00:03:13.639

remember how far back it went, but, but the rumors were, I mean. They were rampant. Almost throughout the whole strike, yeah, almost there was always that threat, yeah, because all the international reps that would make it appointment to live in my office. I, I mean, if

00:03:13.639 - 00:03:28.740

I wanted to make a real private phone call, I would have to leave my office, come home, or go somewhere else, uh, to make the phone call because Eddiere would be there, JC Nvi would be there, Alexy Lawson, it would take turns. There was a there

00:03:28.740 - 00:03:51.289

was always uh someone right in front of me, you know. And uh and reporting back to Mac and reporting back to Pressor and reporting back to uh Arie Weinmeister who uh He he. I became his number one enemy. Didn't he get voted out, uh, when, uh,

00:03:51.350 - 00:04:22.188

Jackie Crasher took over? Yes, yeah. But uh but uh he was replaced by his name Mike, uh. The Kel that. I've got a home somewhere anyway anywaymeister one at the at the Western Conference, uh. Convention was gonna leave office and wanted to some. I don't know

00:04:22.188 - 00:04:41.269

how many hundreds of thousands of dollars in severance pay. And there were 2 people that spoke against it, Lou Rigger. And myself, I spoke against it. I said, oh my God, I can't believe with all the money you're being paid already that you would even ask

00:04:41.269 - 00:04:57.630

think of asking for severance pay. I mean, you're getting vacation time, you're, you're always on vacation. I mean, I just went on and on and on and on. And of course whenever anything went before the general executive board regarding what for 9/12, he would vote against

00:04:57.630 - 00:05:16.299

it. So he's putting pressure on, on, on, uh, pressure and pressure. You know that locals out of control. They're infiltrated throughout. Uh, TDU is really in control of that local union. It's not Sergio Lopez. It's all TDU, you know, there's they're a bunch of commies lefties,

00:05:16.380 - 00:05:37.429

and Sergio Lopez is right in the with us, which was not true in any way, shape or form, not true. And so I had. The director on my ass, uh, for a long time, Jackie Presser, then Chuck Mac, then Alexi Barolosa under, you know, the chain

00:05:37.429 - 00:05:57.880

of command to hang out with him. I, you know, I, I love Alexa. I truly love him. Um, I knew you had a job to do, but I always. He and I were friends. We became friends, but I always knew that he was Chuck Bank's soldier.

00:05:57.899 - 00:06:20.179

0, 1,000%. There was no equivocation about that. He was never going to be 999% check back soldier and 1% Sergios. 1,000% for check bag. But other than that, I got along with him fine. I, I, I mean, I always respected his settlement. He was very intellectual.

00:06:20.329 - 00:06:39.809

He, he struck me as an extraordinarily sharp guy. Yeah. You know, the sense I got from him. Was that once he got the town side situation that his job was to persuade the international that the strike was winnable it was worth investing whatever they had to

00:06:39.809 - 00:06:56.119

invest in, you know, and that they could win it if they got an economic boycott going. Uh, and that was his main role, but he managed to kind of wheel the sanctions campaign through the convention in May of '86, right? No, no, he was, uh, I

00:06:56.119 - 00:07:15.429

mean now is our last. It was one of those was one of those fellows that uh. Chuck Mac needed to have around him because he made him look good. He was very good at what he did. Very good, extremely intelligent person. Um, you know, his, he

00:07:15.429 - 00:07:40.230

and I became at odds, came at odds, uh, when he almost demanded that I support, um. Uh, No, no, no, this, this is after to describe. He, he almost demanded that I. Toe the line and support the old regime, you know, for the international elections. So

00:07:40.230 - 00:07:55.589

when I went off and I and I ran with Ron Kerry, uh, that was the very last time I spoke with him. He says to me. After all I did for you, now you're turning your back on us, and I says, you know, you didn't do

00:07:55.589 - 00:08:13.295

anything for me. I had a job throughout. You had a job throughout. What I hoped when during the credit that you were doing it for the workers. I see now that it's not true, but anyway, that's sad. Yeah, so loyalty, yeah, so he just came to

00:08:13.295 - 00:08:28.290

says that, you know, you owe it to Chuck. I said I don't owe Chuck anything. What do I do? What, what do I owe Chuck? Put in the lo wanted to put the local and trusteeship. Yeah. But the actual formal statement that they were going to

00:08:28.290 - 00:08:48.780

do it that didn't happen until February until a few weeks before the strike ends. Well actually Leon uh who who was then the president of the local, Leon Ellis and myself were summoned to local 70. In which, uh, you know, they when was this? Well, if

00:08:48.780 - 00:09:18.099

that, if that, um, email as you call it's uh it's that called email what was uh. Uh, Titanle, yeah, uh, Titan electronic, yeah, here it is. Yeah, 220, so it must have been on this date because uh we were selling there and when I told Chuck

00:09:18.099 - 00:09:34.090

back to go screw himself, he says, Well, that's good to know because I sent this Titan earlier today. Your local will be in prestigious. That was when you saw it basically I never saw the Titan. He told me that he had sent the request into depressing.

00:09:34.799 - 00:09:49.669

And that's what you mean you, you had to drive all the way up here to tell me that you had and you're, oh man, I just went realistically and and all with with all your might and all your love for people in the labor movement you

00:09:49.669 - 00:10:04.969

decided before talking to me not knowing what the answer would be. So you gonna put Lopo onto and so I knew what the answer would be. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that this guy heard it, so he need Alex Barasa, JC Lamri, and Eddie

00:10:04.969 - 00:10:25.809

Rodriguez. What actually happened though because the local wasn't putting dressed. Was it? I mean, did Blake just take over for you? I mean, you were still in there, David. I start here with him. When was your first meeting with? Around this time. Um, Because you know

00:10:25.809 - 00:10:39.940

I'm trying to, this is actually what I wanna do more than anything else is said today is I'm trying to reconstruct those last couple of months of strike and I read the, the press clippings that they have in the archives at the San Francisco State. And

00:10:39.940 - 00:11:00.869

um You know, I, I assume the registered Pateronian is not all that. Accurate necessarily anyway but. I mean you were negotiating a console in January according to that. And then there were also a flurry of stories all very vague about the future of the plants and

00:11:01.500 - 00:11:18.229

it's pretty much obvious to everybody the console wasn't going to make it. And then, uh, I guess there's a letter in here it's also from the snack box of papers that I got from uh Phil Gar a lota. Uh, it said actually your name's on this

00:11:18.229 - 00:11:33.729

one basically said the strike is formally over as it made the 2nd 1 found someone out of business. Um, so there's no more strike benefits, right, and I had always assumed that I knew that there were no strike benefits for the last several days of the

00:11:33.729 - 00:11:49.570

strike that they should be people on their own after they, you know, uh, decided not to ratify that initial settlement that you came back with. But I'd always assumed it's like, you know, either accepted or or else you on the strike is not authorized anymore. I

00:11:49.570 - 00:12:04.849

realize now that one when the strike ended and consul went out of business. But there never was a Formal decision by the union to strike David Gill or anything like that or to keep the tickets out or anything. Well, there was no reason there was no

00:12:04.849 - 00:12:20.820

reason to strike David Gill. I mean, uh, my concern with David Gill was that he would try to run it non-union, right? And I think actually you did put out a statement that at some points in late February saying that um. You know if he tries

00:12:20.820 - 00:12:41.520

to run nonunion we'll have tickets in front of his players, right, yeah, um. Do you actually try to run the place on uh you know that that first day after the. Uh, the initial votes I guess it was in March, uh. It was in March 9th,

00:12:41.570 - 00:12:57.530

I guess. Monday the 9th, no, um. He was very put out. I talked to him by the way, yeah, yeah, he was very put up so it was hard for her to tell me, well, yeah, I mean, I asked him about that and I said, were

00:12:57.530 - 00:13:10.989

you, you know, were you freaked out about that? No, not really. I was disappointed but I had to stood to Sergio didn't completely control the situation. He had to sell it to his members and you know, he couldn't control what they were gonna do necessarily and

00:13:11.210 - 00:13:24.690

you know, just one more thing for me to factor into my production cost. I wanted to get the plant moving, you know, I wanted to resolve the thing, so I was prepared to be flexible. I mean I'm just remembering how much agony there was over that

00:13:24.690 - 00:13:39.119

decision at the time, you know we gotta throw it all out the window by rejecting this or you know. Well it wasn't it wasn't the way you talked out was no big deal, you know, the, the way the. Actually, the reality of it is is that

00:13:39.700 - 00:13:58.559

It was not rejected. It was postponed. It wasn't an outright rejection, which is the argument that I use with the international. They just wanted more time, yeah, and you know, and, and uh I said the uh the strike is still on because I wanted to get

00:13:58.559 - 00:14:15.169

more benefits from people and that was my argument. I said the strike continues as long as you know we're going to put this is, this is nothing more than a uh. I mean, I was really masturbating my brain that way. I said this is an alter

00:14:15.169 - 00:14:30.130

ego of more council, and then a girl coming in here. I mean, they, uh, more council owes him money and it's, you know, just the, the, the, the chairs are being shuffled around. I knew better than that. I mean, I knew that they reveal, yes, the

00:14:30.130 - 00:14:44.729

only reason he bought that plan. Because that's the way he thought was the only way that he could recover the the his losses or the product that he had given more time to, he could, he could only recover his losses by running the operation. There was

00:14:44.729 - 00:15:09.289

a certain skepticism on the strikers wasn't there that that was gonna change like well, when, when, when the strikers voted to to. Uh, to. That's fine. Yeah, to postpone and give me an opportunity, quote unquote to make the contract better. Um, I, I went back to,

00:15:09.369 - 00:15:35.770

uh, David Hill. His attorney was really, really upset Malsman, yeah, uh, Dick Malzman. And um Chuck back is beside himself. Uh, all the, uh, IBT people, uh. Most of them are dead now John Blake, uh, Eddie Rodriguez, I'll be with you. No, no, no, no, I

00:15:35.770 - 00:15:50.760

was meeting with Jim by myself. I don't know if he goes after the vote, yeah, so after the vote, um. Alex wanted to talk to Gil and finally I let him. I told him, told him how to get a hold of him and all that, and

00:15:50.760 - 00:16:08.200

Gill, to his credit, I said to Gil, I called him up and I said, you know, get David, this has gone wrong, um, don't try to run the, the, uh, the plan nonunion because, you know, you know, the people will not forget that just. Guide the

00:16:08.200 - 00:16:21.630

bullet. Give me, you know, let's get back into the, the, the negotiations and see if we can fix this thing. And to his credit he said fine. He didn't even say fine with a smile. He wasn't happy about it, but the people around him are really

00:16:21.630 - 00:16:36.859

upset, more upset than he was, and uh. He didn't want a big fuss, I don't think he just, you know, wanted it. He just wanted to get it over with and move on, you know, just move on, and I said you've got a chance to be

00:16:36.859 - 00:16:55.419

a hero with the people. You can really get them on your side and they'll break their backs for you as long as you don't try, but they might perceive a more consul tactic to lure some of them back and break the strike. He says, yeah, I

00:16:55.419 - 00:17:14.890

understand. So what happened though. Is that the key people, the floor leaders, the foreman, the supervisors, and the mechanics were going to go across the line. They were going to go back to work. Now Fay, who started the whole fucking thing, all of a sudden he's

00:17:14.890 - 00:17:28.609

got shit all over his hands, and he doesn't know what to do with it. Oh shit. Oh what came to your house. He came to my house and I wrote the statement, you know, a letter to please do not cross the picket line. It worked. Nobody

00:17:28.609 - 00:17:48.939

crossed the picket line. We're not the negotiations and in fact indeed the, uh, the, the result of those. Negotiations did bring about a better contract for the workers that you know I. That's what intrigued me so much because. Like I, when I interviews thing and now.

00:17:51.500 - 00:18:03.369

That you described as his coming to your house and I said, you know, that that must have taken some oxy to do that. He said, no, because I knew search him to sign it because, you know, I knew he was a decent guy and he would

00:18:03.369 - 00:18:16.969

not want to strike end with just the ranks and disarray. He wouldn't want people to go back all together and not at all, so I knew he would sign it just like I knew that was a winnable demand. So subsequently I talked to Frank Barki and

00:18:16.969 - 00:18:29.599

I, I said this is what Joe said, and I said, you know. He might have been a little over naive over optimistic here. I don't know if it was a sure thing at all, you know. So when I talked to Yo, you know, here's all that

00:18:29.599 - 00:18:40.160

he was, well, OK, you know, those are the breaks, you know, so you have to pay a little more, you know, you didn't kill me, you know, I wanted to get the plant running. I guess nobody really knows how these things are gonna go out, you

00:18:40.160 - 00:18:54.319

know, I mean gamble it's like you can't see that guy's hands. He, well, I don't know why he said that because actually it was just that with changing things around. I don't know that he paid more. The allocation of money was. Yeah, I don't think he

00:18:54.319 - 00:19:11.510

did say that. Um, he something came out of pension to pay for the health benefits, right, right, but what he was put out about he says Jesus Christ, you know what Dick Bassman is charging me. Oh man, he was, you know, I, I, he, he forgot

00:19:11.510 - 00:19:28.520

about that. He was, he, he was mad at Happy Cara because Marston was just. Uh, I don't know. I have no idea what he charges, but we, in those negotiations, we took over the whole goddamn floor, yeah, yeah. Were these negotiations in Oman's office some of

00:19:28.520 - 00:19:52.430

them and some at during 2007, um. Now, what struck me is this, you started negotiating with Mawson on March 2nd. Which I guess would have been a Monday, you had a tentative agreement on Wednesday. Um And it took 2 days to do it and then when

00:19:52.430 - 00:20:11.670

the uh. Membership before it opted not to ratify it. He went back and once again just took two days to fix it, I mean. It tracts me how quickly. The strike is settled even after the members membership block, you know, it, it's ratifying the initial version

00:20:11.670 - 00:20:26.719

of it. What was the model? I mean, how did we just determine what was gonna go into that contract? Well, luckily for me, uh, I mean, I through the years I made some con contacts, you know, in the industry, and I knew where to shop for

00:20:26.719 - 00:20:42.780

a health and welfare plan, um. Malcolm, uh, I forget his last name now. He used to work for West Western Growers contacted him and I said, Hey, this is what we're looking at, and this is about how many lives, uh, are involved, and, uh, I know

00:20:42.780 - 00:20:58.790

that you have contracts with other food processors, you know, vegetable processors in the industry. So give me your best deal. So I got all those people to work. And of course I mean the pension people as well I check back since I trusting in the pension

00:20:58.790 - 00:21:14.750

plan. I got a hold of uh Walter pants. I just started putting the pieces together was not was not difficult. Once I got more spending they he to, OK, let us see what you come up with, and we'll run the numbers and if it's good we'll

00:21:14.750 - 00:21:30.270

go for it. So I said, OK. I said, but you've gotta tell me that we've got an agreement in principle. Yes, we have an agreement in principle. And that, that wasn't a tentative agreement, it was an agreement in principle. You had several strikers in there with

00:21:30.270 - 00:21:52.219

you, don't you in the initially like Chavela Glory, uh, I guess Cabelali and um uh Carlos Hernade Carlos Hernandez, um, they actually participate actively in the talks or they just there to observe or Um, they, I would make it a point to, a lot of the

00:21:52.219 - 00:22:09.709

stuff went pretty much over their, their hands. That's the impression I got from Chadel, you know, that he was really. It was all new to him, you know, so what I would do in the caucuses was to have negotiating for ours and I was just. Give

00:22:09.709 - 00:22:35.479

him a synopsis this kind of music. Not verbatim, of course I mean my God I've been there for forever and uh. But you know Peter Everybody had their own agenda, you know. I mean we had her own agenda. So Um, Carlos Hernandez had his phone agen

00:22:35.479 - 00:22:52.800

yeah. Uh, Pei, he had his own agenda. Pei was never, never wanted to be involved in negotiations with the Fucker. I invited him more than once to come along. No, no, that's OK, you know, you go ahead. And he just wanted didn't wanna put a finger

00:22:52.800 - 00:23:09.239

in that water because it might be a little bit, a little bit too hot. It would have if he touched it, then he would be tainted with the settlement, of course, eventually he did become, you know, he had to accept some responsibility, but of course I

00:23:09.239 - 00:23:25.339

mean time time catches up with every one of us, you know, and, and, uh, yeah, but he wanted to, he was more comfortable being on the outside. And criticizing and cherry picking and, you know, uh, the, the way life should be on, on this earth, it

00:23:25.339 - 00:23:44.010

should be, you know, there should be equality for all. There should be no poor, you know, that there should be no light. The sun should always be shining, you know, and that's, that was as well. Well, I think you would be the first to acknowledge that

00:23:44.170 - 00:24:02.010

he had to learn, you know. Uh, That he was more comfortable with the outsider's role, you know, trying to strike and then he had to go through some changes when he came to be an officer. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's inevitable, uh. I mean, I, I

00:24:02.010 - 00:24:24.939

gotta hand it to him uh that. Postpone it They bring about better results. Well, you know, I wanted to ask you about this. I'm doing a little myself. My sense was that you were kind of using an old. The old standard, you know, frozen food agreement

00:24:24.939 - 00:24:37.930

as a model for what you were doing. And that's the whole question of this being a new plant and how that would affect them, which is always help them it's never even occurred to people and so it came up in that meeting. Right, is that because

00:24:37.930 - 00:24:51.969

you know none of me, I mean like Gloria didn't object to it until after the meeting and and then she went on a hunger strike to get the health benefits back, you know, uh, same with I guess ua too, you know what I mean, uh, you

00:24:51.969 - 00:25:11.739

know, maybe they, they felt like they had to be there. Actually, in, in my mind the deal's mine and everybody else's mine. I think we all understood that the strikers would be going back with their healthy walker because I remember there was a position that uh

00:25:11.739 - 00:25:31.060

for vacation purposes, the seniority that they had had with Washington would be recognized by the new company. OK, um, let me make sure I understood that you think that even in the original version of the agreements, uh, even though that the seasonal workers would have eventually

00:25:31.060 - 00:25:55.010

got benefits, the line went out, but, uh. That it would take, you know, 2 or 3 or maybe 4 years before you acquired enough hours to qualify. I, I believe. I believe that we all understood. That the striking employees, those that that have been with the

00:25:55.010 - 00:26:14.290

company for 3 seasons or more. I would say 3 years is that to be as long as 3 years and as little as 22 years and 1 month. If you were 3 days to 1 year, your name appears on the security list the following February 15th.

00:26:14.910 - 00:26:31.510

So if you started working in September, for example, from which is one of the big seasons was September through December, you work 30 days, your name would appear on the list for the first time the following year, and then two subsequent years later you would have

00:26:31.510 - 00:26:50.170

your benefits even though you'd only work 2 months and 2 years and 3 months. But I believe that we all understood. Although it wasn't reduced to to writing that the strikers would be going back with health benefits that the strikers would be going back to him

00:26:50.880 - 00:27:10.270

with health benefits. I mean, You said that the language was better as a result of that postponement. Yes, it was completely terrifying because it was explicit. Yeah, I think that in real life it wouldn't have mattered that much, but it helped to have it explicit Yeah,

00:27:10.670 - 00:27:32.400

oh, absolutely. There's no question about that. Yeah, no question about that because, you know, I, I, uh. People I've talked to so far who were involved, you know. Uh, Yeah, I did this. Yeah, you're boring and she said, you know. Yeah, I was scared stiff what

00:27:32.400 - 00:27:44.069

would happen if the whole negotiations gone through, you know, you bet I was worried. I was worried about what it would be like going on strike, you know, continuing to strike without the support of the union. But we went out on strike for health benefits in

00:27:44.069 - 00:27:59.619

the first place, there was no way we can go back without them. Actually I wanna talk to him in the end. The sense I get was that she wasn't really aware during the negotiations of what the ramifications that were, you know, it just surprised that Gloria

00:27:59.619 - 00:28:27.239

was not. I mean she was done. A very contributive contributing cooperative member of the committee, she did. You know, off the record on she'd go there and fall asleep. She'd go there and fall asleep and then I think been 25 years to back on the record.

00:28:29.050 - 00:28:55.040

Um, I mean, um, I. It's the, the vote that meeting or something like, you know, better than 2 to 1 to not ratify, you know, to postpone the ratification vote. And I mean I I, I finally got to see that movie, you know. Um, that they

00:28:55.410 - 00:29:11.069

showed the town a few weeks back, you know, that, uh. No, the one that John Jones, no, he'll just piss you off. I, I was irritated by it. Um, John Silbert, I don't know what, I don't know what thing he ever said to him, but I,

00:29:11.170 - 00:29:31.869

he hates me with a passion. He, well, I mean, he just, I mean he and Barnay just. I mean that I'm worse than the anti-Christ. I never did anything to those two, and I did my best. Believe me, I did my absolute human best, humanly best.

00:29:32.770 - 00:29:49.439

During that strike and the whole time was uh uh the whole time that I was a union man and I don't know they don't know me. John doesn't know me well enough to, you know, to dislike me so much, uh. Except for what Pey tells tell

00:29:49.439 - 00:30:05.660

told because he think he was really close. Mary, yeah, I, you know, I don't know the guy I've never talked to him. I didn't like this movie because among other things it struck me as pretty simple minded, you know, it was a much more complex struggle

00:30:05.660 - 00:30:20.609

that you'd make out and. You know, the guy's a very capable filmmaker, but he, he doesn't do his homework at least he didn't in this morning. You know, it's, it holds your attention. You know, it's a riveting movie. He's a good, he knows how to edit

00:30:20.829 - 00:30:34.479

film and all that. He's got some great footage what I was gonna say is he has footage of that meeting until Eddie Rodney is kind of shoot all the media out and close the door, and you can see, um. I guess Travell was making the speech

00:30:34.479 - 00:30:50.420

sort of explaining the terms and then. I think they said they got you uh. pointing out that, you know, the, the, the seasonal workers are not gonna get their benefits for a few more years and then there's a very intense discussion about it and then, you

00:30:50.420 - 00:31:06.079

know, the cameras can shoot out of the room, but um. You know, You get the sense that people are really disturbed. They want to suddenly be on strike. They want to go back to work, but they were afraid of what would happen if this issue weren't

00:31:06.079 - 00:31:41.969

resolved, you know, especially the seasonal people. By the way, what percentage were they of the plant at that point? What percentage were the seasonal, yeah, what percentage of the workers were seasonal. Well, the real seasonal. I mean that. Um, 70%, 70%, 65% so theoretically that could

00:31:41.969 - 00:32:02.530

involve most of the, most of the strikers, yeah, not the mechanics, not the floor leaders, but the drivers who all the trades, right, right, uh, 5 people, most of them were technically even if they were close to. Uh, well, yeah, here again, uh, season is a

00:32:02.530 - 00:32:17.949

misnomer because Then there's still that are seasonal employees, but they work year round, right? Yeah, but just the brocco they follow is during broccoli and then 3 months during Brussels sprouts and then 3 months during spinach or whatever and at the end of the year you've

00:32:17.949 - 00:32:35.680

got maybe 11, 1.5 months, but you're still seasonal and it also depends on how, how big the demand is that year so it's hard to calculate yeah, see, my union, we had a contract and you're only allowed to have so many. Uh, so, so big a

00:32:35.680 - 00:32:51.800

percentage of casuals is what they call it, you know, in the union negotiates that strictly speaking, it's only supposed to be for the Christmas rush and so on. You have certain times of year when the all volume is up. Um, But you know this is a

00:32:51.800 - 00:33:05.520

constant bone of contention is basically people do the same work, right? You know, just whether you get benefits, whether you get the full, you know, union pay scale, whether you have any right to appeal sort of thing. And there's a lot and there's there there's a

00:33:05.520 - 00:33:22.869

lot to be considered, you know, from the outside and say my God, huh, how can they use you, how can the teachers negotiate a contract that, uh, where the workers have to wait 3 years to get benefits well. We did have a contract in town during

00:33:22.869 - 00:33:40.099

the in the apple industry that if you were 6 months. You can qualify for benefits and that trust and belly up. Because what people would do is as soon as they got their 6 months, they would have their teeth done and and their kids and all

00:33:40.099 - 00:33:59.790

that and it just, I mean it just drove up the cost of insurance uh tremendously. And uh So I don't know if I know. I, I don't know how much you know about trust, medical trust and and what they call breakage. The breakage is what allows

00:33:59.790 - 00:34:22.158

you to build up reserves and all that. So it's an imperfect world but uh. When you, when you start to think that a lot of the seasonal workers, quoting seasonal workers provided health and welfare insurance uh for their kids and their husbands. Who was who were

00:34:22.158 - 00:34:40.639

working out in the fields whose employer was not paying one dime for his medical care, it's all falling on the trust on the back of the trust that we were negotiating, I mean. That industry supported a lot of, uh, a lot of people, a lot of

00:34:40.639 - 00:34:57.659

glasses were bought a lot of a lot of players are supporting a lot of other employers, yeah, absolutely, yeah, which always pissed me off. It always pissed me off. This is why my do I become a single payer. Alright, I'm with you. Yeah, I'm with you

00:34:57.659 - 00:35:17.219

of a burden for unions, you know, Jesus man. Uh, anyway, but we're digressing. I mean, um, you had. What I really need to do I think is I, I went through the papers of San Francisco State and I went through the stuff I already have on

00:35:17.219 - 00:35:30.320

file and I'm trying to kind of fill in the blank spaces so I come up with a decent, you know, narrative. Um, one story that Alex told me, I guess I heard this from a few other people too, is that you guys showed up for negotiations

00:35:30.320 - 00:35:57.149

at one point and. Uh, Anderson. Uh, uh, we're sitting on the other side of the table we console. No, no, no, no, we walked into negotiations and, uh, of course. When this happened We local 92 were coming across. I mean, I. I knew that was just

00:35:57.149 - 00:36:16.820

a matter of time before the uh international was going to just lower the hammer on us. Can you give me a date roughly? And this was before the recertification. Yeah, I I could not see the top of my head right spring of '86 thereabouts could be,

00:36:16.870 - 00:36:34.590

yeah. Um, after shows prices. Upset with the strike is going on and on and on. It's telling chuck back. If you don't want to strike but in the, the first two weeks, it's not gonna go anywhere at that at that time we had, uh, I think

00:36:34.590 - 00:36:52.500

we still, we, we still have the shop plan out, uh, maybe not. I think sure already but I didn't come in until like a shot. OK, so then. Um, that, uh, it was only in the watching of people. But um We couldn't get any help from

00:36:52.500 - 00:37:11.550

the international. We were broke. Completely broke. They never died were telling me about that before. Uh, Joey console never gave us a dime. They called the the help that they gave us the contribution to open 92, send the Alex down here and uh the ones that

00:37:11.550 - 00:37:37.570

Congress uh sent uh JC Laby and uh. That was international. John Blake Blake Liba and uh Rodriguez Rodri what uh. Uh, Tony Lock came from the, uh, time. He was the guy that was running the pension plan at that point, right? He's Chuck. Yeah, he's too,

00:37:37.689 - 00:38:07.689

yeah, brilliant guy. Oh man, brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Oh man. So anyway, we went to negotiations and uh. It was just uh I I went there. As a formality, I knew nothing was going to happen. Um, I felt defeated. I felt that. I lost the battle, you

00:38:07.689 - 00:38:25.300

know, with the strikers. I had to, I was fighting more council. I was fighting with the striker with international with the Western Conference, German Council. No that's the best of it. So I'm gonna go here and there you're just gonna make it official. So lo and

00:38:25.300 - 00:38:49.530

behold we go there we're sitting at the bargaining table and uh there's more costs with uh. Uh, Spotty Mdusco and his entourage and uh Moo couldn't help himself. His arrogance, his pride, his cockiness, is I want to rub it in your face type thing. And oh

00:38:49.530 - 00:39:12.500

by the way, I'd like you to meet, I would like you to meet uh my, my. My advisor who's been with me all along. Who's been with me all right from the start all along. And so anyway, he goes and he's got about 2 minutes so

00:39:12.500 - 00:39:29.770

he comes back to Anderson. Who until recently had been running the Western Conference. Yes, Westerner replaced him. I'm sorry, West Harmer replaced him when Jack the pressure came yeah. But he said he's been helping me all along, all along, right from the start, right from the

00:39:29.770 - 00:39:47.580

start, and I, and then I, I don't know if I told you that Richard King, my predecessor introduced more counsel to Andy Anderson. Andy Anderson and and Moono became. They I don't know why fly off on their jet. They would race from the stories I've heard.

00:39:47.820 - 00:40:09.949

They would race from LA to Boston. Last one thereby city. And of course both house is burning up tax dollars and, and Anderson is burning Dus money. Very no good bastard. So anyway, when he shows up. Teddy Rodriguez. And everybody, all the international reps, they, they

00:40:09.949 - 00:40:34.199

would like to propose and. The word got to Jackiere almost immediately, and from then on instead of It's over, Sergio that the strike has ended is because you've lost the international strike benefits. We started to get help because more council surfaced. And the Anderson, we got

00:40:34.199 - 00:40:51.379

new life because of that. If he, if he had just. If he had just uh he played his cards a little smarter, yeah, if he hadn't been so arrogant, you know, in his victory. And who have been a great victory for him and Anderson. Um, we

00:40:51.379 - 00:41:08.939

would have that would have been over. Well, that would have been. Of Alex was the one who first told me about this and he said it came. When the union first applied for certification. Which would have been away in May. I guess the the convention was

00:41:08.939 - 00:41:33.739

in in April early May and then there was that uh a certification coming up. Mayor Jung, was it? What did the teamsters first come up with the idea of having that close? God, you know, it just. I'm 16 years old and that my memory is not

00:41:33.739 - 00:41:48.939

that good anymore. I mean those dates are not coming, they're not coming to me. I realize that how serious some of this shit is. I mean, I, you know, um, I just have to ask to try to, yeah, I, you know, Peter, you probably have better

00:41:48.939 - 00:42:02.959

information than that from all the papers that you've shown me than I would ever recollect. Well, I mean, there's a whole bunch of references in the media to these negotiating sections that go nowhere. And of course the media never tells you what's actually happening, what's being

00:42:02.959 - 00:42:20.860

negotiated. That's something that comes of them. Uh, and I honestly don't know how far you can trust the the money in any way. Yeah, well, the sentinel you can trust, they're a lot more, uh, on target than, uh, the. Did you, uh, know this reporter, I

00:42:20.860 - 00:42:40.860

guess he was a freelancer really Bob Johnson at all. And he was taking. I spoke with him. He seemed to be as a reporter he seemed pretty sharp. His stuff is generally more thorough and more detailed, he was still on target than than most, not as

00:42:40.860 - 00:43:02.110

much on target because I didn't feed him with as much information as I did Miller was the guy that he trusted, yeah, um, well, he did have. A story that he broke about this guy and Uh, Fernando Ramirez, well, I guess he's trying to act like

00:43:02.110 - 00:43:15.550

a whistleblower. I, I didn't hear anything, I guess earlier his, his, his house had been somebody threw a Molotov cocktail on his house or something. He went on TV and said that I didn't have it done. This is somebody who had been running the union and

00:43:15.550 - 00:43:31.939

then he took a management job. Like, how was that before the strike or during the strike or like before the strike before the strike? And um Did you know him before any of this stuff? Oh yeah, he and I were friends for a long time. And

00:43:31.939 - 00:43:52.370

uh when he found out. This is off the record. I wouldn't want that. Oh, no. So then anyway, so I looked up, uh, Fernando and after we, you know, we set a lot of differences that he knew that I wasn't any, I didn't really have any

00:43:52.370 - 00:44:11.360

responsibility at all for the bombing of his, uh, home. And um I started cultivating him. Because I knew a little bit about what what had been going on before the stup plan too. He was a source of all the information about the bath and stuff, yeah,

00:44:11.449 - 00:44:27.580

and then he started telling me I said, would you be willing to talk to some. He says, well, let me think about that as well. You know, all you'll be doing is telling the truth. And uh since there's a lot of, there's a lot of people

00:44:27.580 - 00:44:41.699

out there that you worked with for a lot of years, and I know that you have them blah blah blah, so I cultivated him and he did end up talking to them and told the whole story and of course that got to the bank and then

00:44:41.699 - 00:44:58.040

together with Jackie Press's special they put at Wells Fargo divesting, you know, the pension funds from Wells Fargo and all that, that went a long ways. A lot of that went a long ways to convince Wells Fargo to just call in their loan for or cancel.

00:44:59.389 - 00:45:15.530

Well, I, I almost thought the real. Clinching on that was when conso lost that vote. That certification but that it was clear that he's gonna have to hold out these for another 12 months before he's certified and they expect them weren't gonna give him another 12,

00:45:15.969 - 00:45:34.449

another 18 million bucks to last out that months. Well, I mean, you, who could say exactly what it was, you know, you know this strike is amazing to me, um, the old saying about about success as 1000 followers, failure as a bastard. Yeah. I'm the only

00:45:34.449 - 00:45:52.290

you're looking at a kid who's the only person who's never gone anywhere not on record and say this is this is my great success. Everyone has claimed, uh, credit for the for the strike. I mean the success of the strike. I know what happened. I don't,

00:45:52.370 - 00:46:05.120

I don't need to beat my own drum. Uh, no one wants to give me credit. That's OK, but I know the truth. I was there. But as far as you know, if you talk to Chuck Ma, it was, uh, Joe Johnson's been a very in a

00:46:05.120 - 00:46:19.510

career at this strike. I'm sorry, he said, I guess when he retired that this was the high point of his career in the union, you know, with this strike. Really, yeah, you know, there was a whole the last column he wrote for the Northern California Teamsters

00:46:19.510 - 00:46:32.479

sort of reviewed this, you know, little though I dreamed when I was a kid, you know, in 1960, whatever, blah blah, and so forth. But he said of all the things I've lived through it like this strike is probably the most important, the most significant, the

00:46:32.479 - 00:46:51.280

most inspiring, you know, and so on. Um, he doesn't actually say I did at all, you know, uh, he just said it was important for him. I'll be darned and you know. Uh, one reason that. Joke that he actually he talked to me for 4 hours

00:46:52.500 - 00:47:15.120

yeah and um. One thing he kept saying is it's like. We were functioning as a team, we just didn't know it. There were so many people who were contributing things, kind of working on the railroad walking across purposes, but everybody. It's something important. Because this is

00:47:15.120 - 00:47:27.229

why I'm talking to you so I'm glad you're doing this, you know, because. Uh, you know, we need to be more aware of each of us needs to be more aware of what the others were doing and what contributions they were making, that kind of thing.

00:47:27.969 - 00:47:42.959

So you know, I'm sort of approaching this in that spirit too or trying to. Um You know the story about the blind man and the elephant, you know, you tell the story right that your, your job's to take the blindfold off. So not only do you

00:47:42.959 - 00:48:01.649

see the whole elephant but. The blind men can see each other too, you know, that's, that's what your story and you're supposed to do, you know. Anyway, um. So We were talking about um we went back into talks with Cono in August to after the recertification

00:48:01.649 - 00:48:29.399

vote. I mean there must have been a bunch of these little negotiating sessions that went nowhere um. By this time in August I believe. More causes less had changed. He wasn't as arrogant. Uh, he used to call me in the middle of the night and says

00:48:29.399 - 00:48:51.250

I'll meet you at the local. We can reach a settlement and because he was. Water could be high and he was just toying with the strikers feeling sentiment because he, the, the hall was open 24 hours a day, so they would the the strikers would see

00:48:51.250 - 00:49:07.169

me come in at 2 o'clock in the morning and see more cars to drive off his entourage and uh I would, I would tell him this is well, he called me, he says he wants to settle and we he'd keep there for 2-3 hours and And

00:49:07.179 - 00:49:26.290

uh she was. Totally nonproductive meetings. It was all to feed his ego that I could, he could get me out of bed and into a meeting anytime he wanted, and he could just play with the people's emotions at will because the word would get out the

00:49:26.290 - 00:49:45.600

more houses and the boss came last night to talk to Sergio and maybe there's a a settlement inside. I don't know why he did all those things, but he did, he did that 3 or 4 times, but in, in, in that craziness that he adopted. From

00:49:45.600 - 00:50:08.199

August 4th. I, I started to see slowly but surely that he was. We can yeah. He wasn't as, as much as he tried to be arrogant and mighty and powerful. And you know, instead of saying it's about time to put your guns down, Sergio. You gotta

00:50:08.199 - 00:50:20.939

set your feet. You gotta know when you're beaten, what you're doing to these people is, you know, it's in a human. Settle with me. It's the best settlement you'll ever get from me. uh, believe me, if I can hear you more, I would give you more,

00:50:21.020 - 00:50:42.860

but I can't blah blah blah blah blah, you know, same old, same old, same old, same old. He the voice would be the same. But the delivery was a little bit more. Um. Uh, carefully worded with exactly the same words that they always used, but more

00:50:42.860 - 00:51:02.600

carefully worded it's more like I really need it, uh, you need to settle because I need it for sales. Tell me. meaning that he needed to settlement, the word that I could see that he didn't see. Yeah, between the lines, yeah, but it was clear that

00:51:02.600 - 00:51:21.090

he was not gonna make it. Uh, if the strike continues. I mean two things come to mind. One is. At least until they kill showed up. There was no indication that if he went broke and the plant to shut down that everybody would lose. I mean

00:51:21.090 - 00:51:36.939

that that that seems like the most likely scenario at a certain point. So was there any pressure that you felt to settle to keep that from happening or that he felt to settle, you have to keep it from happening? Well, my argument with him was always

00:51:36.939 - 00:51:55.739

the same. I mean, you know, whenever he would call me in the middle of the night, he used every, every tactic that you can imagine. He says, you know, that I've got my, my mother's home. It's palmed. I palmed it and the bus her business is

00:51:55.739 - 00:52:12.709

palmed to keep this operation going and the strike breakers are getting better and better and better. You know, I do, I really don't need your people to come back. I can make it without them, and I would say, Well, OK, Moa, why, why you, you get

00:52:12.709 - 00:52:31.100

me out of bed to tell me how well you're doing, or because you wanna settlement. You know, because I, I, Sergio, I unlike you, Sergio, I care for those people. They work for my father. They work for me, blah blah blah, and I says, well, if

00:52:31.100 - 00:52:46.070

you care for them, why did you do what you do what you did to them. You literally pushed them out of the street and decimated the contract. You lowered their wages by 33%, took away their benefits vacation. I, I would remind them of all those things.

00:52:46.439 - 00:53:03.649

And then he didn't want to hear that. He just wanted me to know that, uh, he was having problems, financial problems, and he was uh pawning his mother's assets, but he never actually offered you a settlement that you could accept. No, I would tell him, give

00:53:03.649 - 00:53:21.320

me the same settlement I gave Shaw. He wanted, he wanted, he wanted always to be paying less than Shaw, and I said, I am not going to make the mistake that Richard King made. You know I'm gonna ask you about that since you bring it up

00:53:21.320 - 00:53:39.280

because I know um. The first time we talked you mentioned this nobody I have talked to can explain why I came. Did that. I mean it seems like if you wanna look for an original standard of this story that was it that was it I 8

00:53:39.280 - 00:53:53.399

to 40 cents an hour. It just, you know, destroyed the pattern agreements. Uh, it just sort of started this race to the bottom in the industry. It provoked the strike for all practical purposes. It was the cause of the strike, and it, you know, it cost

00:53:53.399 - 00:54:10.540

change his job eventually. I mean, uh. One thing Fran Clark, he said he's like, I, I have never been able to figure out why I can't do that. The man was not stupid. You know, you know, I um. I need to be careful how I say

00:54:10.540 - 00:54:47.530

this because he's been around to defend himself he's dead, but I, I. I think And in his prime. He was an incredibly Competence um. Labor leader, truly an inspiring labor leader. He was the one that pioneered. Uh, against all the odds and against all criticism, he

00:54:47.530 - 00:55:07.550

pioneered pension benefits for the seasonal workers, uh, health and welfare for the seasonal workers. He did wonderful things for the working men and women in Watsonville. Towards the end of his career, he got, he drank a lot more than he did when he was younger and

00:55:07.550 - 00:55:33.580

he used to drink with. Uh, the opposition. And me and came to believe that he was one of them. Part of their club and you know I told you the first time we met, employers will never like our union rep. They'll tolerate some more than others,

00:55:33.669 - 00:55:56.879

but they're not going to be our friends. And King got lost in this friendship thing. He actually thought that that any counsel, Mort's father was his best friend and therefore he felt. That he owed the kid. Right, uh, something because he, he was, uh, the offspring

00:55:56.879 - 00:56:15.340

of his best friend, the only child that we that we ever had, and And when, when more coor went to him and said, I'm broke. I'm going broke. I need you to give me a break. If you in the name of my father, if you believe

00:56:15.340 - 00:56:31.929

anything I said to you, even though he's flying around with King to Vegas and this and that and flying on weekends and all this stuff, this that I hear, I was never with him, but I heard that, uh, King. Uh, King believed that he was going

00:56:31.929 - 00:56:46.090

broke. I don't know how he could believe that because he was flying around with him in a jet. I mean, I'm going broke, I'm going broke, you know, let's have another drink on my private airplane. Come on, you know. And so anyway, for whatever reason, I

00:56:46.090 - 00:57:05.169

don't have the answer for that. King believed he swallowed that line of bullshit and allowed him. I protested. I said, this is wrong. We should intervene. Were you in Washington when that happened, or you already gone down to Sandra? No, I was in he would come

00:57:05.169 - 00:57:21.689

back at that point. Yeah, yeah, I said this as well. And did that happen at the same time the election was going on? I know he, he, he damn near lost that election in 2. Yeah, Barne came within 200 votes to be there. Um, I, I

00:57:21.689 - 00:57:40.889

don't know if it was. No, I think the, uh, what I will call the betrayal, the betrayal of the workers and what prompted the strike, uh, came after the elections. Yeah, so it was after he was re-elected to the city, yeah, so it wasn't like in

00:57:40.889 - 00:57:58.179

reaction to. That that 40 cent cut that that Barky got all those votes. It was other stuff I mean you weren't around. King wasn't there actually when I was going to Sanger Barty could be a hell of a good job organizing. I mean, he's he's got

00:57:58.179 - 00:58:10.790

some experience doing that stuff. And he told me he said that. Jesus, I came a lot closer than I wanted to come? Oh yeah, yeah, that's exactly what he told me. I don't know if he was telling me that. I, you know, once again, it's like

00:58:10.790 - 00:58:28.330

it's easy to be an oppositional force or an agitated whatever it is to be. In charge and have to make the decisions, you know, sooner or later everybody has to make that transition if they're serious, and I like barbecue, yeah, barbecue, I don't like Joey. He

00:58:28.330 - 00:58:41.459

has never betrayed me. Yeah, you, you told me that the first time, but he was always completely straight with you always. Well, um, getting back to, I, I just wanna get your theory on that. I don't think anybody can really answer it that I have to,

00:58:41.500 - 00:58:55.050

it's one of those. Impondrables that you have to ask um I mean Shavella told me that. What happened with the smiling went around the plant telling everybody we really need to. I told it back to you as soon as the market, yeah, but, yeah, but I,

00:58:55.110 - 00:59:12.360

I used to go back to Kansas, you know, yeah. Very direct negotiations with the people and it's an amount for different practice. I'm going to call for anotherprises don't do it. Yeah, don't do it. Because I knew what more coil was doing. I mean, I knew

00:59:12.360 - 00:59:26.919

that, I mean, how could we, how could, how could he live with himself being the head of the teams of student and allowing this blatant one on one negotiations with the workers. I mean my gutter, and I was there we were there in the business and

00:59:26.919 - 00:59:43.879

watching all this, even, I mean, even if the 40 7 hour cut had been in order, you don't do it that way. I mean it's, you know, no. Right. But that was it. I mean Smiley basically kind aligned the workers up and King made no effort

00:59:43.879 - 01:00:02.750

to. I, I got the impression also that um. One thing that David Gi made a point of saying several times was that uh. When the agreement settled is the, you know, that the actual terms of the agreement made were less important in his estimation, the fact

01:00:02.750 - 01:00:16.909

that people simply did not want smiling down. And he has to go right. The people were so angry at the way he had kind of snuck at them last few years that war and the way he behaved since then. You know there was something wrong with

01:00:16.909 - 01:00:34.379

King's head, and I don't know whether that was. And it was contagious and he got it from more council because they hung around together so much, but there's something very wrong with Moore coils him too, because when he got the concession, the the the the rich

01:00:34.379 - 01:00:53.000

differential between Shaw and once of the canon, what did he do? He buys himself a bigger plane, a full jet. He moves to a very luxurious headquarters, but I never saw, but I understand they were just like, uh, Taj Mahal. And we also flooded the market,

01:00:53.090 - 01:01:05.479

didn't we? Yeah, I think that was uh Miller's story actually. Yes, and he would put all the stuff into the market at, you know, uh, less than 5. I would go out and brag to the buyers, you know, I can sell it to you cheaper because

01:01:05.479 - 01:01:27.229

I, you know, I, I've got a wage advantage over Shaw. I mean, he was always fighting with Shaw and, and, and, and King sees all this and doesn't do anything about it. And in and in fact, it took almost, almost an insurrection by Leon Leon's part

01:01:27.229 - 01:01:41.219

in mind to convince King that we should strike us can. He was still vibrate on that room because I haven't heard any talk about that. The, the sense I get is that, you know, for the public king and saying it's impossible. There's no one can accept

01:01:41.219 - 01:01:56.550

it. We'll do what we have to do, you know, and there was never any question that there was going to be a strike. Sooner or later. That's because wasn't doing it. I was doing it for him. We were dealing with the people twice a week and

01:01:56.550 - 01:02:15.969

all we do all that the worst part of my job was to keep people out of striking sanctions came through, but Kim was very slow putting those things in motion. He, he, it's almost like he always wanted the kid and the kid needing more time, so

01:02:15.969 - 01:02:30.330

the kid's gonna wake up on me and he's gonna come to the census and he's gonna surprise me with a nice settlement. He's gonna give me a, a nice settlement. Well, let me ask you about Shaw. I actually, I had heard this didn't, uh, Ken, one

01:02:30.330 - 01:02:53.500

of his, didn't one of his kids marry one of Shaw's kids or something like that, wasn't there some kind of family connection between them? Uh Big shot's brother yeah. Um, David married him's stepdaughter. OK. But that wasn't a close enough connection to prevent him from getting

01:02:53.500 - 01:03:15.000

through all the shafts, uh, the console, you know. No, no, he just wasn't trying to pull back. It sounds like. Yeah OK well um. So you actually described that whole couple of months before the strike actually started for me because if you were mainly trying to

01:03:15.000 - 01:03:35.750

keep people in with the sanctions. I would push the people inside trying to reduce was kicking the people outside to what you said it. What, what did, what did it actually take to get a strike vote taken here? It didn't just happen automatically. Um, I'll never

01:03:35.750 - 01:03:54.270

forget that we, we took the strike hold and it passed uh 11,000 and something to to 11. It was just incredible. And, and when King saw that he um, he knew then that there was no turning back. Did he put a strike on the agenda? How

01:03:54.270 - 01:04:14.939

did it work? How did it happen? Or did somebody raise it from the floor? I mean, actually, uh, when we took the cycles, um. I, uh, I have taken measures to, to make sure that I, it came out from the phone to take the credit card,

01:04:16.360 - 01:04:36.379

and, uh, we have to Lean and I have taken the balance. Now at this point they've already stopped deducting new reviews from the stage haven't they. And you're working without a contractor, he was unilaterally implementing on the, you know, yeah. Um All this happened before the

01:04:36.379 - 01:04:51.739

people are going to the union office to pay their dues, yeah, right, so May's. I think I have the letter where. Much as the 1%, uh, we will no longer be deducting any dues from your. Including in your paycheck so you can pay them yourself if

01:04:51.739 - 01:05:11.919

you want to, which is effective saying we no longer have a relationship with you, right. Uh It wasn't like an extended contract. It wasn't like there was a bargaining relationship continuing but not a contract. See, and, and even through that through that, um. This is both

01:05:11.919 - 01:05:30.260

house and but this was spitting. And Richard King's face, he still wasn't mad enough to get you. Um, it was, it was just, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know what to tell you, Peter. Well, I mean, there's some things that you can't answer

01:05:30.260 - 01:05:45.489

just by asking questions. I, I, um, I wanna get back to that last week and try it because we've actually been at it for longer than I expected and I think that stuff too, but um. Um, You were talking to you before you actually started negotiating

01:05:45.489 - 01:05:59.699

a contract with. When did you begin talking you call roughly what it was having met those meetings it was it was around February 20th around there, you know, around the, around the time, yeah, around that time. So when did you tell Chuck that you had a

01:05:59.699 - 01:06:27.590

possible fire? Hey John, I told John Blake, right, OK, and uh, so John Blake. The way he put it to me I actually uh. We Including himself, we have, uh, we have found a way, uh, I, we believe to settle the strike. uh please hold off

01:06:27.590 - 01:06:52.280

on, uh, please hold off on the. Trust, OK, we like Blake had already been technically put in charge of the local. No, no, OK, yeah, no, no, uh, see, I don't know what happened because they never, they never. They didn't follow through with on trust recognition.

01:06:53.129 - 01:07:07.229

I never got a call from the internet to say you're no longer in charge. Uh, I never got any kind of a notice from the internet to say you, you are not in trusteeship. They can't put you in a trustee shirt. They have to give you

01:07:07.229 - 01:07:28.580

a reason. They have to give you like a healing. I mean, the international, they, they always had. And then I might as well have a a a permanent auditor. At the office they audited me more times than ever and that they wanted to catch me at

01:07:28.580 - 01:07:43.310

anything something any of the bill just just they had they had nothing. This brings up something else which is the strikers committee had set up. You know, kind of, uh, uh, the funds to help people who are having, you know, landlord problems, problems their utility bills

01:07:43.310 - 01:07:55.040

and stuff, and they had a separate bank account for it which I believe you told me you kind of kept an eye on it and made sure it was all the up and up and so I had very careful records that he gets. Uh, and there's

01:07:55.040 - 01:08:09.270

a letter from. Chuck Mats is also in the file. Where is I was just shocked to learn that this data, I think in January, February of '87 because I was shocked to learn that the strikers committee of maintaining a separate fund this is probably illegal and

01:08:09.270 - 01:08:25.738

needs to stop right now. I thought, well, shit, this has been going on for about 15 or 16 months. I, I can't believe you just found out about it now. Uh I think Alex knew about it all along. He knew about it all along, um, and,

01:08:25.778 - 01:08:44.770

and what happened is that um. When uh Before the strike began, we, we, we got a strike funds, right, but that was just with the benefits, right? No, no, we got a strike fund that that all the clients have to pay to support the strike and

01:08:44.770 - 01:09:04.890

that wasn't that simply to make sure that everybody got the $55 a week. No, no, that that from the international. There's a supplemental fund for the strikers to help with rent, to help with, uh, medical problems, well, whatever was needed to purchase, uh, goods for the

01:09:04.890 - 01:09:30.889

food bank and all that. But anyway, um. The mistake that I made was that we, we should keep the uh Ming was still in office. I advise my people to say that they, we wanted a separate fund. It's a different checking account. And came and said,

01:09:30.938 - 01:09:48.738

OK, fine with me. Well, then later we found out from John Johnson's attorneys that no, it's not legal. Everything has to go through the general fund, and that's by the ree by the international there's no option. What was the difference between those two funds though? I

01:09:48.738 - 01:10:01.779

mean, it seems like they were both, I, I just assumed that the, the, the, the strike fund that was that, you know, that came from that $5 dues assessment was just to pay people's. About 55 bucks a week. No, that was there for the same purpose

01:10:01.779 - 01:10:21.240

as the fund that Shavela was in charge of. They were sort of on parallel tracks. But every expenditure that was approved by the committee had to come out of the general fund in the form of a check. But the strikers committee was responsible for, so they

01:10:21.240 - 01:10:37.830

would collect money for their funds and then they would make appropriations but it would come out of the unions till. Well Gloria and then they went out and raised funds. I don't know what happened to that money, but they never turn any money into phone, you

01:10:37.830 - 01:10:52.580

know, they, they went out and did whatever they did, and maybe they, I heard that they had a fund, but that's, you know, I don't know what that. But you, you were just saying that that when that fund was first set up. Uh, I made a

01:10:52.580 - 01:11:11.939

mistake because I thought it should be a separate account and that mixed with the general fund. Then upon checking with uh when I became secretary of pressure and checked the way it says no Sergio. Every expenditure has to has to come out to the general fund.

01:11:12.020 - 01:11:28.700

Every check, every expenditure has to be accounted for. You have to go through the general fund. When I read those news out to the workers, they would be, you know, beside themselves. Laura Benco went on TV and says, he's stealing our money. Where is our money

01:11:28.700 - 01:11:49.209

going and all that because I couldn't keep the funds separate. Right, and that's by law, according to these that's yeah, yeah. And so Gloria goes on TV and so Sergiostealing he's still stuck in his pockets without money they, they didn't do that until the very end

01:11:49.209 - 01:12:03.049

though. I don't know. They, they would do it, the, the, the date on. No, no, there were TV interviews and stuff, but no, that's not like what I was referring to. I mean the the letter from Max saying you can't. Oh, I, yeah, I, I don't

01:12:03.049 - 01:12:17.209

know why until the very end. I don't know why but it took him so long to learn about that. I do remember that. But what I get from this is that the trackers committee was maintaining their fund right up until January 20 of the 1987 I

01:12:17.209 - 01:12:37.359

think. Truck is just again rafting for every little bit of ammunition we can use against the luggage should be OK. But it, it, I mean, I've, I've interviewed you all a couple of times now, and you know he described the way that fund was run and

01:12:37.359 - 01:12:49.319

how he would take applications from people and the strikers committee with me and try to prioritize as best they could and they would keep records of everything and so on and you know Chavela is a very meticulous guy, so I'm sure that he actually had the

01:12:49.319 - 01:13:08.660

records until a few years ago and they just told us, you know, I waited too long to hear. Uh, but, um Uh The sense that I got was that they were maintaining that checkered funds right up until, you know. Until the end, um, and um. And

01:13:08.660 - 01:13:23.160

they were the only ones that could say yeah or nay, uh, somebody came and said I'm behind on my rent and then they would say, OK, we'll give you one month's rent. That was all decided on the committee, but That person was gonna give me a

01:13:23.160 - 01:13:45.319

check that's decided by the uh. So the strikers committee would basically decide how the union funds strike fund would be because there's a separate account in here because I don't know what's in that fund. Well, OK, I'm confused here. I'm sorry I'm belaboring this because it

01:13:45.319 - 01:14:01.750

wasn't, it sounds to me like we had 3 funds. We had the strike fund that was set up. Uh, that, that I guess they elected 8 people to and then I think Jeremy and Ramirez is one of them back in August of '85. September, they had

01:14:02.560 - 01:14:17.870

separate funds, a separate checking account with you. Maybe be OK too, and then you had the fundstris committee had where they were doing their own fundraising and using the I, I don't know you don't think about that. Well what Mac is objecting to is, is that

01:14:17.899 - 01:14:32.799

that last one. This trackers committee, right, yeah, I, I was never, I never saw any of that money and there was other books. I never saw anything, yeah, OK, um, I think was the, the, uh, president of, of that, yeah, you know, he was, he was

01:14:32.799 - 01:14:48.020

basically treasurer, I think just to treasurer. Get track of that stuff. So what you're saying this whole controversy with a separate bank account has to do with that. What that didn't involve the strikers committee fund that involved the fact you had two different funds with the

01:14:48.020 - 01:15:07.299

new. So I'm talking about the assessment, right, the, the assessment that was voted on. Throughout the whole local for Green Giant was the Green Giant workers were paying $5 a month and then um the snuckers people were paying $5 a month, those monies that were coming

01:15:07.299 - 01:15:25.970

into the union from employer deductions on on other members' checks coming into the general fund had to be dispersed out of the general fund and not be and not those monies were not gonna separate. I, I made a mistake when they put those, those that income

01:15:26.250 - 01:15:39.930

in a separate account in a separate account and drew from that rather than having part of the general funds, right, OK, and then the attorney says, no, you can't do that. Yeah, that's, that's what Alex is referring to right? OK, yeah, I thought he was talking

01:15:39.930 - 01:15:56.649

about the, yeah. This thing, you know, the, the strikes, no, I, I, I never saw the both, you know, but, uh, my, my sense is that he probably knew about it long before or certainly Alex did. I don't think Alex was very much. And then he

01:15:56.649 - 01:16:12.089

worked with striker. I knew everything that was going on in that local union. He's a very smart man and then he had, he would talk to different people in different places and you know he would be friend people in the committees and all that. Everybody loved

01:16:12.089 - 01:16:35.779

Alex and respected him. I I haven't heard of anybody. Put him down yet. No, no, no, no, no, no, no reason to. Well now You were talking to. Yeah Secretly in King City, I guess, uh. Would have been what around January of '87. December. I mean,

01:16:35.859 - 01:16:55.910

when did you first get wind if he was interested in buying the plan? Because there were rumors about it in the media, you know, as early as Thanksgiving in '86, I think. Sometime in December is when I get confirmation yeah. Um, Of his, uh, intend to

01:16:55.910 - 01:17:14.450

buy the plant and I talking to the bank as. Do you know? Did he give any indication? Well, when I, when I started meeting with him, it was already a done deed that he was going to be taking over. So it was no longer job was

01:17:14.450 - 01:17:24.890

to make sure that he took it over with the union. Yeah, it was no longer speculation on my part. When I, when I called him and got a got a hold of him and met with him, uh, there was no question in my mind that he

01:17:24.890 - 01:17:39.819

was going to be, uh, the, the new owner. And uh in fact that was my question. I understand you're taking over the plan for how you said, well, where, where, where did you get that information, blah blah. So we, you know, he was very he had

01:17:39.819 - 01:17:57.950

never dealt with a union person because he was very. And guarded in his response to my questions. But he, he actually had was already dealing with Wells Fargo on the possibility of taking it to the plan. Do you have any idea where that idea came from

01:17:57.950 - 01:18:18.439

initially? The idea was of of of of y'all starting a new company and buying place for console. I don't know who I mean who came up with the idea of how it happened. No, I don't really know and yeah. You know, I, I My impression is

01:18:18.439 - 01:18:34.859

I mean he had some. A long term relationship with Wells Fargo this again this is the interview he gave me. Um, He said that basically they were looking to for somebody to take plant off their hands because they would be left with a lot of basically

01:18:34.859 - 01:18:54.720

worthless stuff that they foreclosed. Um, they also. Have sizeable investments in farmland or Wassonville. And it was not in their interest to see these farmers are going broke because of the strike. So they actually had an incentive to find somebody who could do it and they

01:18:54.720 - 01:19:10.799

had worked enough with you that they felt he could handle the skills version of it. I, I think, I, I think that's, yeah, I think that's a credible story that's, I mean, I heard that, but I never, I mean I never. I never knew of a

01:19:10.799 - 01:19:29.120

banker or banker by name who's who went to deal and said we want you to take it over. I mean, I've heard those rumors the same what you just said, Peter, just basically what what I've always believed, um, and I've always believed. And this belief Because,

01:19:29.129 - 01:19:43.729

um, whenever I became convinced of that happening, this is, this is still good to be true. The bank is gonna rescue us. See, they're not gonna do that. Wells Fargo is not gonna, uh, get them, you know, 100% on the side of the union against one

01:19:43.729 - 01:19:55.620

of their clients. My God, if they do that, they'll never see the end of it. Every union in the world is gonna be going to the banks. They say me say, I'm right. I'm right here right and your client is wrong, so they're not gonna want

01:19:55.620 - 01:20:11.799

to put themselves in that positions never talk about this stuff. No, no. So I mean that's why I never knew. I mean, I was. hoped that that would be the case, but I never knew. That the bank actually did that. It was always something that that

01:20:11.799 - 01:20:36.500

I wanted to believe. On the other hand, The the fact that it weighs something like that is because more time after the strike. And and after he lost his plan, he sued Wells Fargo and won. Really, he sued Wells Fargo and got millions from them because

01:20:36.500 - 01:20:53.359

and the basis of the suit was why did you loan me money when you shouldn't have loaned me money. You should have known that I was upside down. And because you loaned me money, he won. Sounds like a kind of a twisted version of that subprime

01:20:53.359 - 01:21:05.040

age stuff, you know. Yeah, you shouldn't have loaned me the money that you loaned me because you made you that all you enabled me to lose all of my money. If you hadn't given me that loan, I would have, I still would have some money left.

01:21:05.250 - 01:21:31.490

When did this lawsuit happen? That was right after the strike. I was right after. Yeah, 88. What's up? What did he wind up doing after the strike? Um, well, but you know, we, I still keep going after both also with the pension trust, and he came

01:21:31.490 - 01:21:50.330

to me and he said, uh, because he was behind payment, we penetrated corporate shield and all that, and, uh, he owed the pension office some $1 million or whatever it was or $1.5 million and he came in and he says for all time's sake Sergio. You

01:21:50.330 - 01:22:04.149

know, just. Let it come to an end. You, you already, yeah. I've lost my business. My mom's a lot of business now to try to can't take a turn. No, he says, for a little bit of money I got left, you're still trying to take away

01:22:04.149 - 01:22:24.450

from me, and I think that some of the money that he got from Wells Fargo ended up in the pension. But I wouldn't drop it. Well, let me just see if I've got the time sequence here. You started talking with y'all, um, and it would be

01:22:24.450 - 01:22:48.120

you, Blake, uh, Alex. I, I don't mean the secret meetings. I mean when the negotiations started over the, the labor agreements on March 2nd. Uh, it was um. Primarily tax and I check. Standing on. Mhm. I up server and then you had it's a very like

01:22:48.120 - 01:23:05.169

just right and then you had you had 4 strikers in there to kind of keeping my eyes as well. They weren't actively participating. Well, they could have been if they yeah. Um, they could have if they want. Sure, yeah, um, but in fact they weren't, uh,

01:23:05.410 - 01:23:21.609

no, I feel, you know, to be honest with you, you feel intimidated surroundings, I would have too under the circumstances. I mean, it's like. The most natural thing in the world is about the media presence, you know, carrying the ball on us, you know, um. And

01:23:21.859 - 01:23:42.520

at that the day those talks began strictly speaking technically the strike was over and there were no more benefits. There's no more sanctions ticket line or anything like that, um. Had those negotiations broken down, had they not been successful. You would have pressed the teamsters to

01:23:43.069 - 01:24:01.979

authorize a new strike. Yeah, I, I was working on that. Yeah, yeah. Did you expect that to happen? I mean, pretty much because I still wanted that. Well, I like King, I, I, I became very jaded, you know, with, uh, with people and, uh. And I

01:24:01.979 - 01:24:19.629

didn't trust anyone, so I figured, well, David Gill seems like a real nice person. He seems like a real nice man. He seems like he wants to do the right thing. He wants to um He wants to recover, he had recover his losses. I said, but

01:24:19.629 - 01:24:37.910

how do I know that it's really not that as nice as he is? So I'm, I'm working with him, but I'm also working with the international to continue to, you know, as far as the people are concerned. The fact that this, this, this place changed hands

01:24:37.910 - 01:24:55.750

and changed name doesn't alter the past. That's still their plan is still their operation, and as far as I am concerned, I agree with him the strike continues until it is decided that the the the new owner is declared by some entity, some governmental entity saying

01:24:55.750 - 01:25:16.250

that they, he's not obligated to bargain with the union. Which I knew the answer for that, but anyway, that was basically that my. My are you with you. Uh, but of course then I was working with the union to continue the strike benefits based on the

01:25:16.250 - 01:25:35.220

fact that they say, what if they smell of victory. If it's not a victory. An 18 month strike that uh ends up in a victory. Why not keep it for for a few more weeks? One thing the jump that he told me was that um. I

01:25:35.220 - 01:25:52.569

guess in the Sunday paper, uh, on, on, uh, I guess it was in the 8th of March after the workers voted, uh, to, to, to defer, you know, ratifying the contracts. That some of the managers said watches OK were afraid they were gonna lose their jobs

01:25:52.569 - 01:26:09.330

to put an ad in the paper. Uh, advertising for more staffs. Uh, then the assumption it was gonna be this big mob scene down the planting that would, you know, create a whole deal. And point of fact, it, it didn't get the same kind of response

01:26:09.330 - 01:26:24.540

that they were hoping because they would be swimming on a hunger strike right in front of the plant and I kind of got all everybody's attention. He Right, you were in negotiations. You didn't see any of this happen. Was there an ad in the paper? I

01:26:24.540 - 01:26:39.990

mean, was it Smiley, uh, disco who was afraid that could be left out in the hole that there was so much? Oh, no, I, I don't remember seeing the article. You don't remember, no, I don't remember, but I don't think there was ever any doubt in

01:26:39.990 - 01:26:58.189

his Smi reduceco said that he wouldn't be part of that, right, that he kept on trying on yeah, the somebody was hired after the strike and started. No, he was there in there for, yeah, OK, yeah, you should have told me that, right? He probably didn't

01:26:58.189 - 01:27:22.600

really know. Uh, no, uh, I'm trying to just recently been hired. By, uh, actually reduced the hard time I believe that's where maybe it was for coil. But, um, David Gill needed someone who knew the operation and uh of course he couldn't keep more counsel who

01:27:22.600 - 01:27:48.060

really didn't know the operation and the other one that did know the operation was never to be set in that property again, which is finally reduced, so he, he chose wisely in trying actually he asked me who we should keep. Um, The uh Make sure I've

01:27:48.060 - 01:28:08.379

got the secret straight, so. The strike formally ended when the talks began on March 2nd. On March 3rd there was an agreement which was supposed to last through the beginning of the following week. Pending ratification. Uh On March 6th, the Friday there was a meeting. There

01:28:08.379 - 01:28:29.729

was a big debate and the workers opted not to ratify. On March 9th, which was Monday, went back into negotiations and by March 10th you had another agreement on 11th it was ratified. I got all that straight. Um And in the initial negotiations you had pretty

01:28:29.729 - 01:28:45.279

much a full crew there. The second time around you had uh Chuck back as the server and you had the 4 strikers there and you and Alex were doing the heavy lifting. And then Maltzman was there in Gill. Actually, as far as the negotiations themselves, I

01:28:45.279 - 01:28:58.509

think I handled those pretty much on my own. Not, not I didn't know that much about the contractors and neither did, uh, yeah, but he was the one who was supposed to be instrumental in figuring out how to finish that whole thing with the health benefits

01:28:58.509 - 01:29:19.970

at the very end. No, that was, that was me. That was you. OK. uh, Alex's job was very key and very. Very important because he and Malton got along really, really well. Yeah, he told me to talk to Malton actually. Yeah, OK, yeah, so he and

01:29:19.970 - 01:29:36.640

Malton, they just hit up did though. Marston and I didn't have that chemistry because Marston and I would get into each other's face, but honestly. He just, he was playing with him, yeah, yeah, we got that guy right and uh. So most I much rather talk

01:29:36.640 - 01:29:50.680

to Alex than me. And in fact, uh, you know, he's he'd be constantly saying, Alex, can I talk to you for a minute? You know, like, put me in my place, you know, this fucker to me this jerk and so he, he would pick Alex and

01:29:50.680 - 01:30:01.660

talk to him for a little bit. Then Alex would come back and say, kind of listen to my ear, you know, you think you can turn this down a little bit or can you explain this a little bit better, you know, blah blah blah, you know,

01:30:01.879 - 01:30:15.970

that kind of thing. Well, um, That's probably about as far as I need to go. I'm sure this always happens, but now you, you have this.