00:00:00.009 - 00:00:12.199

Yeah, I talked to I was gonna talk to Mike and I'm hoping I don't run out of batteries here, but I've got some more. So, um, Mike I didn't really talk all that much with because he said really I got out of Washingtontonville almost as soon

00:00:12.199 - 00:00:31.780

as the strike started, um. There are you in touch with anybody down there? Mm, you mean who lives down there right now? No. No, no, um, or anybody who's involved who I should talk to, you know, I mean I've been trying to reach Cua. I talked

00:00:31.780 - 00:00:47.889

to her briefly, but you know she's I guess union officer and she's working graveyard and you know it's hard to get her to call you back anyway, um, we should get into this because time is short, but um uh. Maybe what you could start off by

00:00:47.889 - 00:01:01.509

doing is telling me, you went down to Watsonville the day before solidarity Day, was it October 5th? Was that when you and Oscar and the others went down, or did you go down later or earlier or what? Heck if I remember, I don't know. OK, I'm

00:01:01.509 - 00:01:17.459

gonna ask a lot of questions that don't worry if you can't. What's the story you're trying to tell? Mainly I'm starting with, you know, it's, it's just mainly an account of the strike. I might have a little section about what happened afterwards, you know, the earthquake

00:01:17.459 - 00:01:32.849

and and and the city council changing and so forth and then the plant shutting down, but I don't wanna, it just be too much to get into all that stuff, um, and you know I'm assuming that. Yeah, the TDU people will start this story in 1982

00:01:32.849 - 00:01:48.000

because that was when they first got the foothold in the plant. That was when they, you know, when Barneyran and almost won, and that was also when Richard King basically allowed uh console cuts uh to push in that 40 cents an hour wage cut, which really.

00:01:49.529 - 00:02:05.989

If you wanna look for the original sin in this whole story, that's it, you know, it's broke the pattern and tried to kind of cutthroat competition. The um the pis, but really, you know, um, I'm just trying to tell him, you know, a straight kind of

00:02:05.989 - 00:02:21.839

a narrative thing and you know. Deal with the, you know, the full complexity of it because I realize there are all these different forces at work, you know, and I at the time I wasn't aware of half of them, you know, I knew we had issues

00:02:21.839 - 00:02:42.190

with CDU, um, OK, I don't know how much you wanna record for posterity about the internal stuff, and we have to talk about whatever you wanna ask if I remember, you got it OK so to start off, um. You don't remember the circumstances under which you

00:02:42.190 - 00:03:01.160

came to town. Uh, I was Hm, what was I doing? I was working in San Francisco. I think I was part of the strike support committee when we first went to Watsonville. I remember we had this big, you know, yellow school bus and it was, you

00:03:01.160 - 00:03:22.639

know, full of people and we, uh, you know, drove right into Lincoln Park and walked into the rally. So you came down the day of that big rally organized yeah. Um, what were your impressions out there? My impressions was like, oh wow, this is a tiny

00:03:22.639 - 00:03:49.449

little community of beautiful land, really green and lush as as we were driving in, and the park was, you know, not big or small, just kind of a very laid back town. There was a lot of music, you know, it was just all Maons, um. And

00:03:49.449 - 00:04:05.179

here we were kind of about the rally. Did you, did you meet anybody who you were going to be working with later at the rally? Yeah, I talked to some of the workers and met them for the first time. No, I, I, I have a habit

00:04:05.179 - 00:04:17.899

of just walking up to people and say hello. Did you know the time you're gonna stay down there? I have no idea. I wasn't gonna stay down there. I was going home after the rally. When did, when did you when did you actually make the decision

00:04:17.899 - 00:04:40.790

to stay down there to go down there to stay? Mhm. I was asked to go move there and um I think that was maybe 9 months after I started doing the. Strike support work maybe 6 months so it was important that you went down there. And

00:04:40.790 - 00:04:54.670

actually started working closely with people. Yeah, I moved there in the end of 8586 yeah end of 85. Well, that wasn't in 6 or 9 months. I was just uh 3 or 4 more were down there when they have that Christmas strike was starter, yeah, I

00:04:54.670 - 00:05:28.320

think I moved in March February. Mhm. Did you help out with that Women's Day event in March, yeah. Um, and you started working. I guess uh closely with the strikers committee, yeah, uh, who in particular did you, do you recall working with? Well, Um, there was

00:05:28.320 - 00:06:00.339

Gloria Cua. Rena Chavelo, I think they were the 4 that was the most active uh-huh yeah, Grena was the food. She organized all the barbecues was that or was that somebody else? I thought Lydia. Lydia. and I think there

00:06:00.339 - 00:06:16.829

were two other men, so they were, you know, they would organize all the food. Well there was Bill Walsh who came down from 70 and Lou Gray brought a lot of stuff in the, yeah, I actually was going to try to get an interview with Lydia

00:06:16.829 - 00:06:30.359

next time I came down, um, couldn't deal with this trip. But I guess Bill Walsh and Bill Ray both passed away. Um, maybe you could talk a little bit about them if you work for them, you know, since I can't. mhm Yeah, Lou was always just

00:06:36.250 - 00:06:55.970

whatever we needed. He was always trying to, you know, toy drives, food drives, uh, clothing drives, so Lou was always there. I interviewed him actually uh one of those big rallies and I, I was. Just the guy apparently had a big heart, you know, was my

00:06:55.970 - 00:07:11.179

impression of him. um, how did he, did the initiative, I mean, he was already working on this stuff when you got down there, you know have the Santa Clara County Labor council got involved and it is something he pretty much spearheaded himself. Yeah, they have this

00:07:11.179 - 00:07:38.420

community service program that he was on top of, so he would mobilize, um, from the union members from the labor council. He was in San Francisco and he did that again this is just part of his regular part of his job and he was paid, uh,

00:07:38.429 - 00:07:53.700

yeah, yeah, and then Bill Walsh was sent down by Chuck Mac at the very beginning of his track before, you know, it was clear what the relationship was gonna be. Um, he actually, Chuck did not want to endorse the October 6th rally the one he went

00:07:53.700 - 00:08:05.420

to because he hadn't been asked to do so by the local leadership, but he made a point of sending Bill Walsh down with the team Street's truck and you know, saying you want what do you want me to do? You want me to drive at the

00:08:05.420 - 00:08:25.190

front of the parade and so forth, so it was like. You know, without, yeah, without, without, you know, kind of a characteristically Mac move obviously couldn't make sure all the bases were covered but also the strikers got support, um, Lena, what was her last name? Yeah.

00:08:27.859 - 00:08:48.219

I can't remember. Um, you know, they weren't when the strikers Committee was first elected, I guess you weren't down there at that point, but, um, there were two guys on the actually there were 3, who I know didn't stick around on the committee. You had Gloria

00:08:48.219 - 00:09:04.169

and Chavela were elected from Washington Van, and then they had Gloria's brother Armando, who I think eventually went back to Mexico after he decided not to run against Sergio. And then you had a guy who ran not on the people's late but ran and won as

00:09:04.169 - 00:09:23.289

I guess a BA or a trustee or something, Henry, I think he was a VA, and he wasn't on anybody's slate. And there was another guy named Art Heinberger who Sergio told me was the one who wrote the weekly strike bulletins for Vocal 912. You don't

00:09:23.289 - 00:09:40.619

remember him at all. Do you remember Henry at all? Yeah, I remember him yeah. Um, can you tell me anything about him because I know very little about him, I realized that I remember pretty quiet. He didn't really, he didn't really know what he thought at

00:09:40.619 - 00:10:07.150

the time. Did he stay on the stri? Maybe for the first year. Yeah, yeah. Did people when they left? I mean, was there an election to replace people volunteer? What happened? Oh yeah, people just volunteered. It wasn't. And thanks. So I don't think people vs drafted.

00:10:10.599 - 00:10:33.750

Well, tough you had, uh, I mean those are huge responsibilities to keep those picket lines going all day, all night, every day. And it wasn't necessarily pleasant working inside the union in the community. It was, uh, I think it was really hard. You know, Watsonville back

00:10:33.750 - 00:10:52.349

then was a very different town than what it is today. You know, the city council was all white for the supervisors were well I mean it was just like. Um, really a hard job. I mean, I, I got the impression that you know should all had

00:10:52.349 - 00:11:08.260

his hands full and he was kind of responsible for. I did talk to him um that he was responsible for kind of sifting through all the applications for people who need help and deciding who. Who needed it the most and that kind of stuff and getting

00:11:08.260 - 00:11:29.210

all the books in order and making sure there was no. Accusations of hanky pan with the phones. I mean, he's kind of, yeah, um. Gloria worked mainly on traveling around her. She was like kind of the public face and her sidekick her around making sure she

00:11:29.210 - 00:11:54.469

got to places. And Lydia and Rena will hold down the food part. Who is responsible for the, you know, organizing the pickets to picket lines and so a lot of it. And uh Gloria. And there was, uh, I remember there was like a rotation of people

00:11:54.469 - 00:12:12.419

that would be picket captains, so the people responsible every day of the week. And we're talking now beginning in like early spring. Were you there when the Shaw settlements? I think, yeah, um, I want to ask you about that. Did you actually were you actually inside

00:12:12.419 - 00:12:36.020

the meeting when we initially discussed the settlement? Yeah, tell me about it. Uh, was very heated. A lot of people, people were, you know, jamming the hall and wanting to be in there and Uh, very, a lot of anxiety, a lot of yelling with Sergio, I

00:12:36.020 - 00:12:52.919

think people really felt like, um, I don't think, I think he became kind of a poxy, you know, people really were angry at him. They were they couldn't get at the owner and didn't feel like, you know, he's not a fighter, he's not like he's not

00:12:52.919 - 00:13:11.080

an overt fighter. I think he did the best he could under the circumstances. Um, I mean, it's to lab a little. I mean when I talked to Alex, he said, you know, the situation is he size up. This shot should never have been struck. The console

00:13:11.080 - 00:13:28.919

was really the badass behind all of this. And his job was to get Shaw settled and then get all the teachers' resources focused on loss and Canon and that part of the thing that was removed some of the financial burden on the union, uh, he said,

00:13:28.960 - 00:13:46.190

you know, and he was persuaded just because Cha did open the books to them that Char was in financial trouble and that, you know, he had a legitimate need to. To settle for, you know, to impose some kind of a wage cut on there. I'm assuming

00:13:46.190 - 00:14:00.950

that what he told me is that when I went in to look at the books and actually asked for permission to picket captains to go into the building and um you know that when they negotiate a settlement they were strikers from from uh Shawh who were

00:14:00.950 - 00:14:20.669

part of the process and and yet I get the I get the feeling it was a rather difficult sell. Did people believe that was in trouble? No, that. Yeah, I think the general sentiment from the outside looking in was these guys are not living up to

00:14:21.280 - 00:14:38.909

their share of the responsibility, and they were the bad guys. It was a very clear black and white you're referring to the people who are going back to work they were they weren't doing their bit to keep. You really feel that feeling was widespread. Were there

00:14:38.909 - 00:15:05.890

particular people who you remember putting that out there. Yeah. Um, I remember Aurora. She was a strike leader, um, Shaw. She was one of the very reasonable kind of, you know, fighter, but she was willing to listen. She was willing to listen, and she was not,

00:15:06.140 - 00:15:27.844

um, I think it just, what I remember is there was just general, just anger and anxiety. And so anything short of the workers' demands would be seen as a sellout. And I remember there were days when the uh uh strike breakers would come in and there

00:15:27.844 - 00:15:51.419

was just a lot of animosity and you know, almost like verbal abuse and violence. So, so it created, at least from my point of view, created this. Very up and down wall, so there was no room for settlement if you didn't meet the workers' demands 100%

00:15:51.419 - 00:16:07.489

you were sell up. There was no room for negotiations and conciliation. Is this the attitude of the Van people or or the people in Shaw is the same way, and yet they voted about 2 to 1 to settle. One thing that Joe Fay, he told me

00:16:07.489 - 00:16:23.770

is he didn't realize this until years later because the shot strike was really lost already because a substantial number of the key people had were basically crossing the picket line. He also said, and I found this interesting. He said he thought Watsonville King was a lot

00:16:23.770 - 00:16:38.739

more solid because he was the oldest of the plants. All the workers have been recruited from Watsonville. They've been there forever, whereas Shaw was one of the last ones to be established, got people from all over the area, and you might have to walk past a

00:16:38.739 - 00:16:51.869

picket line, you know, before and after work, but then you go home to, you know, some place else as well or someplace like that. Whereas if you lived in town, you know, it would be impossible. There was no way you could scab and continue to live

00:16:51.869 - 00:17:11.420

there. So that was his that was a much more solid plants. Well, that's the way Gloria talks about, you know, her tenure there is, you know, they took such pride in these jobs, you know, they're not in the fields anymore. They were in the cannery and

00:17:11.420 - 00:17:31.709

for the first time they could afford to have a house and the children can go to school year round. So, it meant a lot to have these jobs and to have the union benefits. So there's a lot of um kind of pride, yeah, yeah, well I

00:17:31.709 - 00:17:43.099

mean that not just that it was a good job, but it's like this is our plant, you know, we were the ones who are making it work and it was like a family and we stuck together and it's like, you know. Looks like a slap in

00:17:43.099 - 00:17:57.380

the face when did this, and it looks like it came from out of the blue. He also told me he had never been active in the union before the strike. And he just sort of got shoved into leadership after it started, you know, um, I think

00:17:58.069 - 00:18:13.199

the sense I got was I know both he and Gloria and I guess Armando were, they were all floor leaders inside the plant, so they were used to, you know, having people. Listen to that. So that was a mechanic. So as a mechanic, you get to

00:18:13.199 - 00:18:29.599

walk around the planet, get to know more people, whereas if you're on the line, you're just on the line. So I think that was a different. What about those other two guys, you said you didn't know was Henry, was he a or what? Do you know

00:18:29.599 - 00:18:49.239

what? No, I think he might have been a mechanic. My impression was the strike the men strike leaders were all mechanics, and the women were just kind of the more vocal and the ones that stood up and the ones who who could speak English were more

00:18:49.239 - 00:19:08.920

the ones who were leaders, except, you know, there were a few others who only spoke Spanish. They were fierce. Uh, Esperanza, which one, her daughter Salome, let me get the last names. Oh God, she's the one who became an organized for 890. for one of the

00:19:08.920 - 00:19:29.010

teams, so she's attorney. She was uh she she's monolingual Spanish. She's very tall. Was she in that movie? Was she the one who was being from her house? In in the John Silver movie. Oh, I don't know. Um, she was part of the, no, she was

00:19:29.010 - 00:19:48.650

part of the hunger strike. OK, I can find out. Yeah, that's that's it. I'm I'm thinking about. I think there were a couple of women. So the hunger strike was also a huge, um, event. I wanna come back to that. I mean that was a big

00:19:48.650 - 00:20:08.250

deal for you, um. Yeah, but that was much later, yeah, yeah, you know, mainly I wanna get a better sense of how the strikers committee. Your sense of how they operated um. Uh. And I get the feeling that that initial election they had in October of

00:20:08.250 - 00:20:32.810

'85, uh, the composition changed after that and I know I remember being very prominent. She wasn't one of the people originally elected, which is people were just step forward and as you said, you know, uh, um, the strike was. Oh, they, um, they had such a

00:20:32.810 - 00:20:57.959

hard job. Uh, you know, looking back, and on the one hand, they really held uh the the workers' morale together. Um, they had to kind of play the go-between with the unions, who most people thought was kind of a spineless, uh, not necessarily a sellout, but

00:20:58.329 - 00:21:17.400

he was not a fighter. And so they had to play this role to uh Kind of make sure the workers' morale and unity was held together, but at the same time, they had to play this role talking to the union. And not be seen as part

00:21:17.400 - 00:21:36.900

of the union. So it was a very complex role that they played to hold everything together. One of the things that um Frank Barday said when I talked to him is He was very self-critical, you know, he said that TDU screwed up royally at the beginning

00:21:36.900 - 00:21:50.920

of the strike by not doing what eventually happened. He's calling for, uh, an election, an elected strikers committee, you know, help them get set up properly said what we did is we just tried to act like we were the union. And we didn't have, we thought

00:21:50.920 - 00:22:03.599

that because we could get a vote through a union meeting or because we'd almost won this election and we had a mandate, we didn't, you know, he's on the other hand, he's critical of the strikers because once the committee was elected, there were no more mass

00:22:03.599 - 00:22:19.000

meetings. It was all like people sort of working behind the scenes and so forth. That wasn't the way should all recall because I know we had meetings in the union hall all the time every night, every night, every Monday night there would be a striker's meeting

00:22:19.709 - 00:22:41.535

and there would be anywhere from 20 to 100 people depending on the week and the issue. That folks were working on. There were flyers every week, a bulletin would come out um and you know, those would be passed on the picket line. So I think the

00:22:41.535 - 00:23:12.410

striker committee, um, just had a lot going on and those meetings. Those meetings were Um. They were pretty well organized for people who, you know, didn't have official facilitation training or meeting planning, you know, any. It was mostly Gloria. And she got along with this report

00:23:12.410 - 00:23:30.709

on the money, you know, how much came in, how much went out, uh Lydia and Uh, Reyna would talk about the food and the distribution, you know, so it was a lot of stuff about the survival aspects of making it through the strike, and then there

00:23:30.709 - 00:23:44.270

would be a, uh, you know, some kind of report on whether there was any kind of negotiation or what was happening and anybody crossing the picket line. So a lot of it was very intensely focused on that week that was happening on the picket line, what's

00:23:44.270 - 00:24:04.079

happening with the family. I've seen a few copies of the, you know, newsletter. Um, I'm sure nowhere near as many as there actually were the archives at San Francisco State have practically every issue of the weekly strike that the union put out, um, but the strikers

00:24:04.079 - 00:24:23.380

committee ones, I've got maybe half a dozen for the whole, you know, 18 months or however long they're putting it out. Um, you didn't say any of that stuff, did you? No, I've moved lots of times since then, so I don't, this is the problem it's

00:24:23.380 - 00:24:47.709

their advantages to doing this stuff, you know, years later, there's advantages also, um, but from the time you got down there around I guess within nature of of 8586 and we're having regular meetings in the hall every Monday night, um. We're there, um. After the Shaw

00:24:47.709 - 00:25:03.189

settlement, actually even before Shaw settled, there was this leaflet that went out calling for this formation of a United Teamsters Local 912. This is in the archives of San Francisco state. I had never heard of it before. They called for a week of demonstrations in what

00:25:03.189 - 00:25:21.550

turned out to be the week of the Shah settlement. The first one was the one that turned into that trashing the downtown, um, I noticed. The initial call to set that committee up had a bunch of people I guess who are associated with TDU and I

00:25:21.550 - 00:25:41.300

also had Gloria Chavelo, um, Gamina, and, um, one of the guys from, and it wasn't Gina, I think it was, it was Aurora and one of the other guys from the Shaw people from from the strikers committee, I, I forget his name, um. Shavella had no

00:25:41.300 - 00:26:00.859

recollection of it, um, do you? After the riot happened and the media was all over it and so forth, somebody from Santa Cruz said that this committee had been endorsed by the Socialist Workers' Party in the League of revolutionary struggle. Some guy named Lee Lee Beck

00:26:00.859 - 00:26:22.589

or something like that from Santa Cruz. Does does any of this room? Tell me. I, I think at the time I remember thinking, oh, this is PU and um doesn't Oscar remember? I thought he was the one who was supposed to go ask Gloria like why

00:26:22.589 - 00:26:39.449

is your name on it and kind of jack her up like why are you doing why are you doing this with TDU they're just using you. No, but at the time. The strikers committee had this principle that they were gonna accept help from whoever. It didn't

00:26:39.449 - 00:26:58.329

matter who they were, they were gonna work with them. If they were, you know, trots, anarchists, revolutionaries, who the hell, who cares? Mextrian students, you know, Asians, whoever, if you're gonna help us, we're gonna work with you. That was part of what kept them kind of,

00:26:58.459 - 00:27:14.369

you know, marching forward, you know, union and whoever. So I'm not surprised that they would have said, yeah, sure, go ahead and put my name on it. Is it for the strike, I'm with it. This is about the endorsing it come from or the Socialist Workers'

00:27:14.369 - 00:27:38.989

Party for that matter. No idea what's the name was just trying to make it sound like it was. I guess I should talk to some of those people. It's his name on it. I have no idea where that came from, you know, except campus. Yeah, there's

00:27:38.989 - 00:27:56.589

some, there was a, uh, some people thought because Gloria was hanging out with Oscar so much that she was part of the league. So whatever she did, it was tangentially attributed to the league. So there was some of that. And I gather this is supposed to

00:27:56.589 - 00:28:16.339

make it seem like it was a broader, you know, more united. We're bringing together all the different factions, that kind of thing, um, they were not responsible for what happened on Main Street, were they? I probably was like stuff like that. I said it was some

00:28:16.339 - 00:28:39.020

anarchist punks from Santa Cruz who did it, you know, people who have never been in town before they were all white, and then there were some local teenagers, you know like the people who were in the downtown Oakland was years later. Uh, but. I, I gathered

00:28:39.020 - 00:28:54.479

did that make real problems for what you were doing with this director's committee was doing, you know, I mean, I know that it probably. There was a very angry article on the unions, you know, weekly bulletin about it, and you know, a lot of those people

00:28:54.479 - 00:29:15.160

who were trash or were our friends, you know. I think people had a right to be ambivalent. I think they, you know, they, they didn't really, I mean here is this little town of 25,000 people at the time, 20,000. It was like a drop on the

00:29:15.160 - 00:29:35.469

map, right? And all of a sudden here comes all these lefties that were concerned about these make on workers, and they all came in full force. I think it was hard to discern who's who and who's to be trusted and who's not telling us about who

00:29:35.469 - 00:29:50.229

they really are. You know, there was a lot of kind of that suspicion. And I think we, I was part of that, like who are you? Why are you here? What are you doing? What? You moved to here to help us? Why? I mean, like? No,

00:29:50.239 - 00:30:06.959

not hostility, but a lot of suspicion. Like, why, what are you doing? How did you deal with it? And why are you here? How did you deal with it? Um, well, I say, well, I, I care about the strike and I'm wanting to do what I

00:30:06.959 - 00:30:21.810

can to help you and support you. Mhm. And I think the workers should be organized and you know, I'm here to help you with the drives and with the pickets. So I think once people got to know me and you know they come over to our

00:30:21.810 - 00:30:43.189

house and we we go to their house, um. We were accepted as a friend. Were there people you knew of, I mean, I know you worked closely with Laura. Were there people you knew of the kind of leadership in the strikers that you became close to

00:30:43.189 - 00:31:13.160

or you worked with a lot or you got to know well particular people. Uh, They were not part of the strikers on that that was kind of providing leadership. Um, Yeah, yeah, it was, um, yeah, like Sal Salome Mae was not an active part of the

00:31:13.160 - 00:31:26.765

leadership. She was part of the food, so we would go and we would back through together at the food bank, um. So there were a lot of people that were just doing a lot of work and there was a whole group of women that made tamales

00:31:26.765 - 00:31:50.609

for every one of those rallies. And so got to know them and you know. What about hardship cases? I mean, do you know people who are losing their homes? Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, can you give me an example? Yeah, well, Salome and her um Salome,

00:31:50.810 - 00:32:14.989

S A L O M E. Um she and. um she had a little boy, and they moved out of there. They lost their the place where they were renting, and they moved in with. Uh, the mom, the aunt moved in, so they all kind of grouped

00:32:14.989 - 00:32:41.199

into these clan households, you know. So they had like 4 families in one probably like very small 2 bedroom, uh, town home or or or. Um, was living out of her car for a long time and in and out of Gloria's house. Uh, so there was

00:32:41.199 - 00:33:06.180

a lot of people just banding together, um, and trying to stay in town instead of going back to Mexico to work or moving out. Uh, and then there were people, a lot of people moved to find work. You know. Like now, no, but back there, yeah,

00:33:06.189 - 00:33:20.060

yeah, every week at the strike at the meetings, people would say, you know, it was just, you know, so and so moved, so and so left, and then you know they're gonna come back, um, you know, to visit or I mean there was a lot of

00:33:20.060 - 00:33:39.089

like who's a lot of. Anytime somebody left it would be discussed with the noted that would be and they'd make a note we got they would make a point. they're so we can stay in touch with them, it was more like a. Like these families moved.

00:33:39.599 - 00:33:57.400

We think they're they think they're gonna come back. So when the strike settled they'd be back. Or um this family had to move to King City for work and they lost their house. It would be that kind of reporting, not necessarily discussion and you had to

00:33:57.400 - 00:34:13.639

get all these people back into town for the recertification. On pretty short notice, right? How, how long did it take? How long, how much time was there from the time that election was, um, scheduled to the time the actual day of the vote was August 11th

00:34:13.639 - 00:34:46.239

August 12? I think we had a month, a month, 5 weeks, probably 5 or 6 weeks. And word of mouth because they're all related. Somebody's related to cousins, aunties, uncles, siblings, neighbors, I mean, it was a very tight community. It wasn't just a matter of like

00:34:46.239 - 00:35:03.250

I mean and then. Between Chavelo and Gloria and you know, Lydia, I mean they kind of knew everybody or knew somebody who knew somebody who knew them. So I, I asked Gloria, I mean how the hell would you get people back from, you know, Mexico and

00:35:03.250 - 00:35:16.060

Texas and all that for that vote? She says, Well, we just took over all the phones in the Union Hall and the phones started, and we made sure we had everybody's phone number, you know, all along, they left town. But it seems like it wasn't because

00:35:16.060 - 00:35:42.280

there was this formal system set up it was just, you know, you know, as we know it today. You think so? Yeah, I thought that might be because Uh, Alex told me that he and his wife were considering leaving, going back to Mexico anyway, even before

00:35:42.949 - 00:35:56.120

the strike, you know, I guess they had a teenage kid that they were worried about or something. There was a lot of that back and forth and leaving kids in Mexico and the parents would come back and work and then go back and get them, so

00:35:56.120 - 00:36:19.449

there was a lot of I I just remember thinking, wow, these people like just know where everybody is cool. And yet I mean the jobs in Washington there's a pretty stable long term workforce even with the seasonal nature of the work and they subsidize it working

00:36:19.449 - 00:36:29.399

in the field, yeah, yeah, yeah, in the field like tomato season, they go to Gilroy and work tomatoes for a few weeks, so it's a lot of that. Do you know how that broke down in terms of the calendar? I mean which crops, what time of

00:36:29.399 - 00:36:54.060

year, that sort of thing. Well, you have strawberries, um, you know, pretty much starting in Uh, May, and then you have tomatoes starting in like June, July, and then garlic in the fall, and then you have artichokes all through the fall, and then you have lettuce,

00:36:54.739 - 00:37:19.310

pretty much all through the winter. I mean, it's just so ripe. And this is above and beyond the stuff that got processed in in France. This is fresh, yeah, yeah, um, I went to work. In like July or August with um Gloria Kua the whole carload

00:37:19.310 - 00:37:36.419

of guys that went to work in a Gilroy tomato plant and you know, so whenever plants needed people there would be a call and then people would pick up the phone and, you know, get two cos of people and drive down and and work like yeah,

00:37:36.590 - 00:38:00.580

it's a processing plant. OK, I mean like the, the Del Monte one in Auckland they used to have, yeah, OK, so very tight network. Well, this, this actually helps, um. What kind of You said that it was kind of difficult for them to operate inside the

00:38:00.580 - 00:38:12.879

hall that they were not. That Sergio and I guess Leon Ellis are not entirely comfortable having them in there and I think even Joe Fahey complained that when he was elected to the executive board, it was like it was always one and he was on the

00:38:12.879 - 00:38:28.139

low end of a lot of 61 votes, so he didn't have any. That there was a lot of hostility or at least a lot of suspicion. But the strikers the the meetings were held in the union hall. Was there any resistance? Was there ever any You

00:38:28.139 - 00:38:50.439

know, was there any problem getting permission to use the hall for those meetings? I don't remember that. I think the union. Once they sanctioned the striker committee, it was open to the striker's committee to have meetings there. But I think to the striker committee, the knowing

00:38:50.439 - 00:39:13.179

how the majority of the members felt about Serio and, you know, what it represented, they didn't want to, um, yeah, it was just so tough, you know, they they they want. To take control of the unions at the same time. It was an arm's length relationship.

00:39:13.330 - 00:39:51.034

Yeah. So they managed a lot of strife and stress. I mean, especially I think someone like Chazelo who so trusted and respected and widely loved. It's really hard. Oh my God, so. Appeals to the best and yeah he's like Frank Gallegos that very much. I mean,

00:39:51.044 - 00:40:09.469

I think he's actually he's a very conservative guy right down to. Uh, he's no firebrand activist. He's sort of almost out of a sense of duty. This is my responsibility. I'm taking it on and make sure that everybody needs help, you know, that the books are

00:40:09.469 - 00:40:31.219

kept properly. I don't think I would say he's very compassionate and even he, and he's a uh he he sees the black he sees the balance in. He's actually a very well balanced. I think probably what Tom wasn't a political activist, right, right, he's not an

00:40:31.219 - 00:40:51.780

activist. Yeah, like, you know, she'd get up and make a speech and would run to and then she disappeared for days. I mean, I mean, that's in fucking. Gloria would go on the road like. Yeah. And then when she was in town she'd be gone. Like

00:40:51.780 - 00:41:08.709

you can't find her. There'll be days you can't find Gloria, don't know where she is. Who knows? Praying, you know. So who knows? She had a very volatile relationship with her husband. So her life was kind of like that. Had a couple of wild boys too,

00:41:08.810 - 00:41:24.215

didn't she? Oh my God, of course she feeds them Coke and chips for breakfast. I mean, was she loaded with all the sugar? Like, what are you doing? He's a joke. He says, you know, after solidarity day, you knew there's a lot of bad feeling. He's

00:41:24.215 - 00:41:34.054

trying to mend some fences we thought he's over to Gloria's house and talk to her, and they see these two little 6 and 7 year old boys pummeling each other on the sidewalk, calling each other Joe Fay, you know, it was right then and there I

00:41:34.054 - 00:41:55.689

knew that meeting wasn't gonna go anywhere. Fuck you, Joe. I mean they were like 6 or 7 at the time. I remember they were like just. Like crazy, like you know 10 miles. Solo's whole life was like that. So Cherella was like this. So it all

00:41:55.689 - 00:42:24.820

worked because of that, you know, Cherell by himself would have It's, yeah, yeah, um, I know. I never really knew her um. Cooper was more like Gloria, but more quiet. Yeah, she didn't necessarily seek the limelight. She impressed me as a rather tough customer when I

00:42:24.820 - 00:42:49.370

talked to her, yeah. Well, she, she kind of was, I think she saw her roles to protect Gloria so that's all. So I think that would have to be kind of with in life. It's very interesting, yeah, that is um. The, um, I guess I want

00:42:49.370 - 00:43:05.840

to um. So people came on to the strikers committee as time went on. It was to have these large open meetings so people who want to stop and volunteer were free to do so. Um, that, that United Local 912 members I gather didn't last much past

00:43:05.840 - 00:43:27.290

that second week of February. I mean that's the only reference I've seen to it. I did you have any sense of where that came from or what it was about or anything? I mean, you, you kind of laughed when I mentioned it like. I think it's

00:43:27.290 - 00:43:42.290

just one of those passing things. I mean, that's how I recover the initiative of this Frank, and what's her name with the long hair, um Frank sidekick, um, Gomez. Oh cruise, yeah. Yeah, you talk to her. Well, I shouldn't I'm told she's moved to Maine. They

00:43:42.290 - 00:43:59.800

just had a big, you know, fight for her in town a few weeks ago, uh, and they showed John Silver's film and, uh. I guess, um, Gloria and Cooper got up and made little speeches, you know, thanking Silver for, you know, memorializing this driving and so

00:43:59.800 - 00:44:13.040

forth, and Barky actually wrote me a letter about it so I was very impressed with him. It couldn't have been easy for them to say that stuff. And I talked to Oscar later and I said, Yeah, I talked to Gloria, yeah, she was pissed off and

00:44:13.040 - 00:44:36.159

she says Cuco is being way too way too complimentary, you know like. Uh, 20 years. Well, that was what bothered me talking to the two of them initially is that it's like they're still. Pissed off at TDU in particular and um even Chan I think you

00:44:36.159 - 00:44:53.879

know there's that. And I find myself thinking, you know. Yeah, put this on. Mike showed me some correspondence between him and Ken Pa because I guess you know they were just 89 months before the strike. They were already going at each other, you know, Ken would

00:44:53.879 - 00:45:07.610

accuse him of insubordination and like I say you guys aren't paying me enough to put up with this bullshit, and it was so it was like I thought it was a good idea at the time for, you know. You know, kind of a TDU had a

00:45:07.610 - 00:45:23.239

presence in, in not just white truck drivers who was brought in their base and good for us because TDU had a national reputation and resources and that kind of stuff and. Looking back. You know, organizational unity and political unity are two different things, and it really

00:45:23.239 - 00:45:39.000

was kind of a fool's in the end, you know, there just wasn't a level of trust and of course the moment things started to go to hell, uh, it magnified the hostility, I think once the strike broke out. But I want you to make sure that

00:45:39.000 - 00:46:03.810

I talked to some rank and file workers who work with CDU, and he mentioned see if you. she mentioned that she eventually gave a taste for organizer and said she'd be very, very political and said that she's in John Silver's movie, um, you mentioned. OK. Uh,

00:46:03.959 - 00:46:28.550

Fidelia uh you know her? Did you know her very well, um, like kind of I agree uh-huh. Um. He mentioned uh. Uh, the part family, you know, because one part was the guy who had been, you know, he clouded this foreman over the head with a

00:46:28.550 - 00:46:41.540

broom, you know, and his mother, you know, the foreman baiting him and you know, calling him a dumb way back and this sort of stuff, and finally he lost it uh. This was TD's first big brain in terms of getting a foothold and then we're going

00:46:41.540 - 00:46:55.110

back to 82 now but the hearing came up right in the middle of the strike. Were you aware of that stuff? What's going on? Um, kind of, I think to me that was kind of noise in the background. It wasn't the main thing that I had

00:46:55.110 - 00:47:14.030

my eye on. Well, apparently it was a big family and they have a lot of connections inside the clan. You know, I don't doubt TDU had a base of 25, you know, at any given time. I think what. What is true is that we, uh, the

00:47:14.030 - 00:47:32.679

less we, the greater we never sat down to say, what do we want to do together? Who's the real enemy here? It's not TDU. It's not the league, it's not CP. It's them, right? So why are we We flipping on each other. We never had that

00:47:32.679 - 00:47:56.629

conversation. I think the league was just as as much at fault as the CPN is to you. We were no cases. We were walking around lying about our affiliation. right, ask me. I would say no. That's a lie. So, OK. I like that stuff. Right. So

00:47:56.629 - 00:48:13.923

then it creates this suspicion, right on. Or if Gloria does something that's the that's if you don't like it, then you blame one of these people that you know is not telling the truth. But if you like it. They're bringing in money, they're bringing people. Cool.

00:48:14.292 - 00:48:27.532

They can stay. We'll talk to them. We'll work with them. They want a man to pick a line right on, and I can go home and have a night off, you know. So I think it was a degree of, um, what do you call it, self-interest

00:48:27.532 - 00:48:47.295

for everybody, right? You gonna help me? You're gonna give me some money? You're gonna give me some toys? Come on in. Are you gonna lie to me? Who cares? You know, you, you can help me. I'll take it. Uh, who, who was I've never heard of

00:48:47.295 - 00:49:01.916

her. She's a striker. She would come to a lot of strike committee meetings, yeah, active, and she was in was in TDU for a while, right, yeah, but she was very pissed off with him. I remember. I mean, she actually did an interview at the beginning

00:49:01.916 - 00:49:18.860

of the strike which just, you know, we. I mean, I, she was blunter than hell about them, you know, who are these guys coming in here and trying to run a strike for us. So they became like the white teams, right? I mean, the people who

00:49:18.860 - 00:49:42.074

ran the union, you know, all these guys, like, what's the difference between them? They're they're both telling us what to do. They're both not, you know, respecting us and our right to self-determination. No fuck them. I, you know, yeah, OK. I, I, I can totally sympathize

00:49:42.074 - 00:50:00.239

with that. Um, Frank also suggested I talk to Jose Lopez, who I Get the feeling there's something about Miss Cannon. I mean, I guess when when Joe was elected business agent or you know. Or you know, to the executive board Jose was pretty much TV became

00:50:00.239 - 00:50:20.070

pretty much his responsibility. Was he in in your opinion, an effective leader? I mean, did he? You always hear about it in connection with you know sort of it. You know, the the rough and tumble stuff and I think I think it's any movement, you know,

00:50:20.189 - 00:50:38.739

any kind of, yeah, any movement, any organizing drive, you're gonna have people all shapes and colors on on every spectrum. And hopefully he's one of those characters that dared to say what he thought and, you know, it didn't matter who it was, and he would just

00:50:41.060 - 00:50:52.120

blast. Yeah. The way Joe described it is he was, you know, he would go to the union meetings and just sort of shout insults at Richard King, you know, like shows that I had to figure out there had to be a more constructive way to operate

00:50:52.120 - 00:51:06.800

here, you know, uh, rather than sort of on your knees and blowing off steam. One thing Guerina said, I, I get the impression, I mean, Gloria had no connection with name really before the strike. She definitely didn't. A lot of these people only became union activists

00:51:06.800 - 00:51:23.389

as a result of the strike, but, um, Guerina was somebody who had been going to and sounded very frustrating. She said she says in this unity interview like. I I go to the union meetings and just come home all angry and frustrated and tired, you know,

00:51:23.500 - 00:51:42.739

I feel like I was wasting my time. Um. Was there something in her background that made her think it was important to be active in the union even before stuff started happening? I think she's just one of those leaders that says, wow, we're paying all these

00:51:42.739 - 00:51:59.419

dues. This is my union. Let me go figure it out. And there were a lot of them at 890 and Selena the same way. I mean, I think these are just activist, uh, kind of natural leaders. They didn't hold any formal positions. Some of them might

00:51:59.419 - 00:52:21.120

have been shop stewards. Um, I get the impression that the TD of people were a little. Shocked. I'm prepared. I mean, I guess after. That's all the day around October the 6th, I guess, you know. With Quentin Joe was running around referring to Joe as a

00:52:21.120 - 00:52:34.280

racist dictator because of the way he ran that rally his feelings were hurt, and I think probably I, I hadn't realized at the time I got the interview with the community that she had been working with him, you know, for a while that, so it must

00:52:34.280 - 00:52:51.050

have kind of a shock to them when that happened. Do you, was there anything in particular that she ever talked to you about that? About that that turnabout that she went through. Did you ever discuss that with her? She's somebody I'd like to talk to. Oh

00:52:51.050 - 00:53:12.129

yeah. Oh man, you're digging deep here. Let me think. I haven't thought about this for 20 years, um. I, I envied him once, you know, a few months ago, and then I came back, uh, the other day, he says, you know, I've got to think and

00:53:12.129 - 00:53:35.879

after I just start trying to all the stuff that I've forgotten all about, you know, so. So I'm jogging your memory here, that's fine. We can always talk again. Um, you know, my, um, memory, my my reflection is that there were these, there was this variety

00:53:35.879 - 00:53:57.510

of workers who in their lifetime, you know, would go in and out of these activities, right? And Guilloina was one of them that uh always had this urge to participate. I remember during the district election, she was very active. I mean, she's just a naturally. So

00:53:58.979 - 00:54:23.090

Engage playing an active she she she she would be on the picket line. I mean she would pull her share plus a little more. I mean, so she was always just active. I think Gina is one of these people who were more vocal than not and

00:54:23.090 - 00:54:46.830

represented a lot of the sentiments. Um, Yeah. Well let's move up to the um. The uh I don't know if there's anything after the the Women's Day thing there was a Jesse Jackson. I I remember that fairly well, and we went down to that one and

00:54:47.679 - 00:55:00.350

I asked Gloria about that. She says, Well, you know, sure it was a big more out for the drink. It's good for us, but it's kind of messed up. They made us pay him, you know, we had to pay and we've been like that so well,

00:55:02.389 - 00:55:18.760

um. This I gather is something that we basically engineered getting in there. Chanel said he went down to LA to talk to him with some other people. Who, who else should he go down with? Do you know? Probably Oscar, Oscar. I, um, and he was just

00:55:18.760 - 00:55:41.399

down there. What were you doing in LA at that point, you remember? We, he made a visit to invite him on behalf of the committee to come up. Um, you know, there were a lot of things during the strike that um That people from the outside

00:55:41.399 - 00:56:02.439

bought, right? So from material goods to financial resources to these connections, uh, there were a lot of students in Santa Cruz in the Bay Area that that came down to Watsonville, and there were a lot of students who identified with the strikers because this is, you

00:56:02.439 - 00:56:20.419

know, like their family. So I think the strikers um got a lot of energy from that, you know, just picketing every day and you know, it's just it would just drive you insane. So I remember them looking forward to these caravans and looking forward to going

00:56:20.419 - 00:56:40.070

out, um. I think it was very tiring for the core who had to do it a lot for other workers that we were able to frame, um, it was like they had never been invited to speak to anybody. So I think it was a shot in

00:56:40.070 - 00:56:59.800

the arm. It was morale boosting all throughout. So I think the outside uh resources that the the strike mobilized was a really important part of of the story. Were at Santa Cruz or they just like from the Bay Area and Santa Cruz had a huge, so

00:56:59.800 - 00:57:27.540

we want to, uh, Christina Beltran, who's now at Haverford, um play a huge role um from Stanford, so people like Lucky, Carlita, um. A whole group of them, you know, spent a lot of their weekends in Watsonville and working on campus to mobilize support for the

00:57:27.540 - 00:57:51.629

strike. I mean, I think in some ways it really represented that um self-determination kind of, you know, a la. So they're on campus. Mhm mhm. Um, And that includes Santa Cruz. I wasn't just like from Berkeley or, you know, uh, Santa Cruz was huge. It's, yeah,

00:57:51.860 - 00:58:18.459

Santa Cruz, uh, Cabrloa, all the community colleges, um, and did they work through the Santa Cruz strike or they have their own little campus or like it was the strike support committee. And it occurs to me that you know trying to find I I get a

00:58:18.459 - 00:58:32.620

kind of so and so represented this and so and so and so forth that tends to be the way he analyzes and he's. He's actually quite even-handed in recognizing they were good for this, they were good for this, but I think the sense I get is

00:58:32.620 - 00:58:52.370

the outside support was not. You know, uh. It is broader and more, you know, more kind of process and just. He said that you know, they said to the Washington Committee, was anybody in town who wasn't uh a team belonged to the Washington Committee and that

00:58:52.370 - 00:59:08.409

Cruz Gomez was like the big driving force behind it, said that they were basically the Santa Cruz strike support committee was the same kind of a thing that they worked very closely together. He mentioned that the guy or Jim Brock who was the big one that

00:59:08.409 - 00:59:30.689

was CP. And um then in the Northern California community to the Bay Area and that was league people that sort of the way Frank. I gather you're you wouldn't do it that way. Back then I did. No, I wouldn't do it that way now. Um, there

00:59:30.689 - 00:59:50.175

were all these people who basically had a lot more in common than they had differences, and they really wanted to see the strikers win, but they let their differences get so big. Among them, that they were spending half their time fighting each other and half the

00:59:50.175 - 01:00:05.120

time working on this strike. Yeah, actually I've got some notes unfortunately there's no date on it, but Steve gave me some handwritten notes and meetings that he had, I guess that you're trying toward the end I suspect where you know. Uh, you and he would go

01:00:05.120 - 01:00:25.600

to talk to like uh Karen Fahey or somebody like that and try to patch things up but it was a question of whose name was going to be on the leaflets and I mean the kind of stuff that drives you bond, you know, um. And you

01:00:25.600 - 01:00:52.219

don't know, you don't remember this stuff with any pleasure either. Oh, those years, I don't remember anything about those years with pleasure, yeah, really. Um Those are dark years in my life. Yeah, well, um. You mentioned Cruz. What can you tell me about her? She was

01:00:52.219 - 01:01:18.689

the one who actually brought the all that lawsuit for district elections here, which um I thought it was watching, um. I think cruises. I would say this about Cruz, looking back, that she was ahead of her time. She should have been mayor of Watsonville. But Cruz's

01:01:18.689 - 01:01:41.429

ego was too big for Cruz, that she wasn't able to, you know, make her ego be subservient to the masses, but she never mobilized people. It was just kind of, um, people would flock to her and follow her like, oh, Cruz, you know, kind of that.

01:01:41.580 - 01:02:02.215

And she wasn't a a base builder. She helped a lot of people with like survival issues didn't she had a job even during the strike that even the strike because she put out a leaflet saying if you're being evicted, come to, you know. We can help

01:02:02.215 - 01:02:22.850

you give you legal and moral support and so forth. I thought that was always her job like she got paid for that, like some service agency. Was it the or was it um community action agency of some kind, um. I think Cruz did a lot for

01:02:22.850 - 01:02:42.850

the people she was. Um, she always struck me as kind of like a hippie, you know, kind of. More than more than just the long hair, I take it. Yeah, it's kind of yeah it's kind of a hippie but really full of herself like she's this,

01:02:53.010 - 01:03:04.110

you know, mother, hen, and you have to bow at her feet, you know, kind of thing. I used to hearing about her and I'm struck by the fact that Her name hasn't come up that much when I've been interviewing people um. I think after a very

01:03:04.110 - 01:03:22.389

quick time, she and Frank kind of became a sideshow, you know, kind of like on the side. They would kind of do things here and there, but it was never sustained, never had momentum. And also they were not able to mobilize material support on a substantive

01:03:22.389 - 01:03:37.679

level, you know. I thought the Watsonville community raised a lot of Did a lot of the food, you know, the food stuff and the fundraising and so forth. And at one point toward the end they were, they were barred from the union hall I guess probably

01:03:37.679 - 01:03:52.399

the the hardchos from the international didn't want them around. And I actually have a copy of a letter that Sergio sent to Frank saying in June, saying, you know, I'm putting up with your shit long enough, you know, from now on if you show your face

01:03:52.399 - 01:04:07.030

around the hole, you'll look like have you busted for trespassing, you know. Um, I don't think they mobilize that much so far. I mean, if we look back and kind of look through like how much did they actually bring in, it was a very small number.

01:04:07.209 - 01:04:37.114

What about the Santa Cruz, so I don't think that ever gave them the credibility that I think the league had and the Metro students. I mean, I think people could see who's actually. the shit that we could use, you know, who's doing that? Oh, tremendous, but

01:04:37.114 - 01:04:47.864

Lou was just he would show up by himself. Where we would show up with a lot of I mean Lou would come in with bans full of stuff and and then he'd drop it off and then he'd leave. People people always talk about Bill Walsh. I

01:04:47.864 - 01:05:18.949

mean he was actually down there the whole time. And he was pretty much the first person that he was a sweetheart. I thought he was a sweetheart that's what he was he just responsible for the I've got a big file

01:05:18.949 - 01:05:29.375

of, you know, thank you notes Chuck Macs and mobilized and the AFL. two of those, yeah, OK, but he didn't. Lou would have been involved anyway even if Bill Walsh. Yeah, I think Lou was his territory, Santa Clara County and was everywhere else to, uh, joint

01:05:29.375 - 01:05:49.570

counsel, yeah, I should tell you that you know Alex before he died, uh, after I interviewed him, he said you really should see this report I wrote up to back when I first went down there. Uh, you need to read this. You wanna understand what happened

01:05:49.570 - 01:06:01.379

and so forth. I'll get some, you know, he talked to Chuck and he got a big box of papers for me, and I finally got a hold of him just this past week. Uh, it turns out that the report's not in there. I was telling here

01:06:01.379 - 01:06:19.050

he is, but what is in there is, uh, something I wanted to, I asked Sergio about. Sergio had told me that he was fighting off trusteeship by the international, uh, as early as, you know, um. Well, to hear Sergio was almost a continual thing anytime things

01:06:19.050 - 01:06:36.679

start to go bad like, uh, and then Chuck and I actually sent him a letter, uh, about two weeks before the strike end saying, uh, I've asked Jackie Cresser to put John Blake in charge. Put you on what? To put John Blake, you know, uh, in

01:06:36.679 - 01:06:50.620

charge, I guess he was uh huh uh huh, he was, yeah, the big honcho, yeah, yeah, the big honcho, the ducktail guy, you know, Sergio, I mean, uh, uh, Chavell refers to the guy with dark glasses. Sean Blake was the guy with the ducktail, you know,

01:06:52.159 - 01:07:05.135

I mean, Sergio had a very hard, he says he had a, I think he had more trouble just having those guys in his. the, you know, he says if he if he wanted to get away from them, if you wanted to do business, he didn't want

01:07:05.135 - 01:07:22.084

to know that he had to go home and do it nobody knew that about Sergio. Nobody knew. Sergio would put up a front like he's with the he's the team, but his own struggle behind the scene, nobody knew about. So they saw him as this weak,

01:07:23.254 - 01:07:43.290

Mexican. Union who was kind of weak, and his attitude to the people of the is they were just waiting for this little dumb little Mexican to slip so they could take over. So he was stuck but he didn't see that by aligning with the workers he

01:07:43.290 - 01:08:05.439

actually would have. Much more power. He didn't go there. But these were his own. So he created that little hole that he lived in. He didn't have to. It's sad. It is sad. Tom and I were talking about this too, because it was like Tom was

01:08:05.439 - 01:08:20.240

saying this guy was always for years he's pretty much been Richard King's gopher all of a sudden this and got jumped into his lap and King left him with a huge debt, you know, 850 on the hole or something. They took over the union and, and

01:08:20.240 - 01:08:35.859

then the international was bringing down his man and TDU was making everybody was rapping on him and you know Tom's comment once again is like he's looked back with fresh eyes and. You're the poor bastard. He was really in a very difficult place. And he didn't

01:08:35.859 - 01:08:49.289

have no backbone. If he had had no backbone, he would have sided with the workers and just like the way Fran did in 90, it was really different. Well, Franklin elected as part of this, you know, insurgent thing I mean he could have mobilized the workers

01:08:49.289 - 01:09:11.399

in the same way, but he didn't. Yeah, yeah, anyway, um, I'm willing to give the guy because he got more slack than I was at the time, you know, I don't think he was a joke that I assumed he was. It was interesting at the time

01:09:11.399 - 01:09:26.879

and why did I have all these relationships with these guys? I, you know, I don't know, there's something I was asked to do. I mean, I, I would go meet with John Blake. I would go meet with Chuck Mack. I mean, I was like, now going

01:09:26.879 - 01:09:46.520

thinking back, I don't know why I was in that position. I must have been like chair of the Northern California Strike Committee, so working with you. Huh, they treated me with, I think, a lot of um respect in some ways. They would listen to what I

01:09:46.520 - 01:10:04.209

wanted from them and pretty much they would give it to me, whatever it was they were. But we wanted them to support um different rallies and events and put Joint Council 7's name on it and and local nightclubs. They said, OK, go ahead. So I guess

01:10:04.209 - 01:10:22.410

I had that job. Yeah, yeah, you were, you were there to be a diplomat. Oscar. Oscar never did that. So Oscar was always seen, you know, Oscar was the lead. He was the only open member and he was seen as kind of the, uh, the frank

01:10:22.410 - 01:10:43.790

Barbe of. Yeah. you know, the Latinos. I don't know how they look, but yeah, he couldn't talk to him. I don't know if he ever tried. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if they would have if he tried. I don't know. I mean, again, he said, you

01:10:43.790 - 01:10:58.279

know. Joe he couldn't really trust and he had to work with him for years when Joe was an officer, you know, I guess the president in 9/12, so they had to. Have some kind of a motives with Andy. He said, Frank Barn, you know, I always

01:10:58.279 - 01:11:10.000

respect him because it was always completely up front with me, you know, he would just tell me, uh, I'm gonna fight you on this, so wait for shell to ring and come out swinging but never, never tried to put anything on me. Uh, Oscar was a

01:11:10.000 - 01:11:23.700

pain in the ass, uh. Sure, it's OK, you know, she was, she was willing to work with the union. Uh, that's, that's the way he kind of get it. I think that's how we have our division of labor. I was supposed to be the one. He

01:11:23.700 - 01:11:44.839

was a diplomat and he was there, was there to kind of define the enlightenment with the union and to. Work closely with the workers, yeah. I thought they were always the upper echelon. People were always very respectful and would do what they thought if we had

01:11:44.839 - 01:12:01.580

a reasonable request, they would always grant it. Did you have any inquiry about this? I mean, Sergio obviously wouldn't say do about it. I mean there was no way he could have let people know what was going on. No. Um, so you didn't know about it

01:12:01.580 - 01:12:18.259

either. Um, I, I, I didn't have a clue until he mentioned it to me, and then Chuck Mack gave you this this letter, you know, what he said. Um, Oh, it was costing them a lot of money. Yeah, yeah, I mean they run their locals like

01:12:18.259 - 01:12:39.720

a business. You, you don't pay your share, but you gotta go. I mean it was very hardball. These are cash cows for them. Well, I mean one thought that I had was that um. In Shaw's case, the workers may have gotten shafted, but at least Shaw

01:12:39.720 - 01:12:54.049

was willing to work with the union. Consul was out to destroying the union, so they really had to fight consul. Uh, there was no way they could let him get away with what he was doing. Let's, let's move up toward the end of the strike because

01:12:54.049 - 01:13:11.359

uhha's gonna be popping in here pretty soon, I think, um. When It was becoming clear that console wasn't gonna make it I guess it's really after the ratification vote and that's after the certification vote, uh, right then and there I think console started having some fairly

01:13:11.359 - 01:13:27.419

serious financial problems and there was that whistleblower who was who was named Ramirez who was leaking all those stories to the media about bad produce and stuff, and he actually claimed that that David Gi took a kickback from him or from from the company. You know,

01:13:27.500 - 01:13:48.270

to pass some pass off on some, some bad produce, uh, I didn't ask David Gill about that when I interviewed him, uh, I, you know. Sergio told me that this was a guy who I guess his house was firebombed fairly early on, you know, um, it

01:13:48.270 - 01:14:02.569

turned out it had nothing to do with the strike, you know, it was a personal thing, but you know, initially the union got blamed for it and this is a guy who had been a member of 912 and moved into management and They wound up, you

01:14:02.569 - 01:14:16.259

know, treating him like dirt, and he, once he became convinced that the union had not firebombed his house, then he started leaking all his stuff to Sergio. Did you write about any of this stuff? OK, I'm throwing stuff out there that's from other sources to see

01:14:16.259 - 01:14:33.890

if you can get your take on it, you know. Called fact checking. Yeah, yeah, they're really tight lipped about things like that, yeah, so physio, I think kind of saw himself as like this little safe, you know, open it, you put things in, and he locks

01:14:33.890 - 01:14:51.399

it up, you know, yeah, he's really tightly wound up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, I know that must have been so stressful. He was just a little stressed out all the time, yeah. Well, I can see why he's, you know, he just sort of. Keeps aloof

01:14:51.399 - 01:15:10.209

from all that stuff now you know who would be interesting to talk to people in LAC in Washington. They, um, this one particular I got a statement that one of them made to the city council, right, it's, you know, I forget her name, but she did

01:15:10.209 - 01:15:26.790

show up at one of those town town hall meetings, I guess I don't know maybe Maria Colejo. Oh, she was the one. She was a, OK, she was the one whose idea was to have the hunger strike. Let's move up to that. Um, Maria, she still

01:15:26.790 - 01:15:48.790

works in Washington in a social services agency, uh, yeah. And she would, I, it would be fascinating to get her perspective. Did you work with her a lot before the hunger strike or just uh Not, not a lot. She would come to a lot of the

01:15:48.790 - 01:16:09.299

striker support events. She was very outspoken. She was definitely, uh, you know, she was after political office. She was the one that, uh, her husband died during the strike. He was a lawyer and he, I guess the Canary Workers center that was set up after the

01:16:09.299 - 01:16:26.299

strike was her initially named after him. The other Jose Lopez, oh yeah, there were two of them, yeah, yeah, um, yeah, to get her perspective of all these people and the strike itself would be fascinating. I probably should find out more about the kind of community

01:16:26.299 - 01:16:43.930

activism that was going on before the strike too, and not just get it all because she would be more balanced, I gather. Well, she would give you the other perspective. Yeah, so she definitely was very outspoken, had a lot of like really great ideas on things.

01:16:44.060 - 01:17:06.330

So the hunger strike, um, the, the profession where you know the workers kneeled. I know you were hunger striker on your knees. No, I walked. I, I, I just, I'm not a religious person. I was like, no, I, I couldn't do that. I mean, neither Gloria,

01:17:06.459 - 01:17:23.609

but she's a, she goes to church. Does she? She she goes to mass on Sundays. I interviewed you know religious, so you know they say this is what you do, you gotta do it. That was the way she put it. My job as a leader was

01:17:23.609 - 01:17:44.000

to do what they wanted to do I had to do it too, you know, wasn't necessarily my back, but I was gonna do it that way she was brilliant. She also makes it sound like the whole killed her, you know, have been 5 days of fasting

01:17:44.000 - 01:18:03.839

to go cruciating. It was very dramatic, yeah. Well, when you listen to the broadcast, uh, on the lab, you'll hear Joe Fay describing it in very dramatic terms. That was one thing I really wanted to keep from our interview because it's, you know. He told me,

01:18:04.359 - 01:18:25.779

Frank Barney, he has no use for religion the way he saw coming in there with a picture of the version of Guadalupe, it's like he burst into tears, you know, um, yeah, 5 days of hunger strike in tent slept in a tent. Probably I don't remember

01:18:25.779 - 01:18:43.839

you were too hungry, uh, probably because there was coverage there was coverage, well, at least in the, um, now back up a few days there was that period, I guess the first week of March when they. They had a couple of days of negotiations and they

01:18:43.839 - 01:19:05.720

came out with this settlement which had the language that that Joe objected to which basically treated the seasonal workers like new hires so they would have to wait to get their health benefits. Uh, the sense I got talking to Sergio too is that the I guess

01:19:05.720 - 01:19:22.939

Carlos and Gloria and Chavelo and um. we're all in there during the negotiations, but they were. Mainly there to observe that that that Sergio and Alex did most of the heavy lifting I guess Chuck McA observed too, but the sense I got, I asked you about

01:19:22.939 - 01:19:43.629

him about. Whether there's been any debates in the striker's committee about that language or whether it was accepted or not because in the movie, in John Silver's movie, you see Chave actually. Pitching the settlement uh to the uh to the workers and then Joe Bay stands

01:19:43.629 - 01:19:56.959

up and makes a speech and points out, you know, the seasonal workers may not have their health benefits for 3 or 4 years and accept this, and then a bunch of workers, you know, rise up and say no and say no they didn't actually say no

01:19:56.959 - 01:20:17.359

they said they just refused to ratify. They didn't actually vote it down. Were there any discussions in our ranks then at that point about, about how to handle that situation? Tom told me, you know, we didn't take a position um was there any discussion that internally?

01:20:21.910 - 01:20:55.669

Were we prepared for that that debate? Um. Um, hm, let me think. To rethinking. No, we had no position because Because the um Trevelo, Gloria, they were ready to say, let's let's do this, and then the worker said no. There was really no advanced discussion or

01:20:55.669 - 01:21:14.529

anything. Things just happened spontaneously when the workers said no, then they and then where did the decision come? I mean, at that point the union will have been locked, right? It was no longer uh open 24 hours a day because the strike was normally over. Um.

01:21:15.129 - 01:21:33.129

Could happen right outside, right outside the Union sidewalk, right, and the injunction had been lifted because the strike was over, so the police were not there to interfere. Um, can you, what can you tell me about the process of setting up that town and and so

01:21:33.129 - 01:21:50.970

on? What, how did you decide to participate? I didn't decide to participate. We decided I would participate. um I'm sure you could lose a few pounds. You don't have anything else to do. You don't. Um, no, we decided it was important that one of us was

01:21:50.970 - 01:22:08.600

there. Mhm mhm. I think Soledad was working or she would have been there or something. I don't remember Soledad. Do you remember Soledad Sia? Oh, sure, sure, she was from, uh, she's from Shopton. She was at SF state. She was my roommate. Yeah, I didn't know

01:22:08.600 - 01:22:29.689

her very well. I just remember she wrote it. She had brown hair, uh, medium height, yeah, until about 5657 something like that, yeah, kind of a long face, yeah. So she, she wasn't in very good health. I mean she's never been in good health, um, so

01:22:30.009 - 01:22:51.950

decided she couldn't do it. Why didn't ask to do that. I don't know why he consideration given to participating in that? He could have done it if he wanted to set up a separate tent. So I think it was more of a default, um, and I

01:22:51.950 - 01:23:12.229

was like, OK, this vote took place on Friday and got set up almost immediately things must have moved very fast. Um, I guess what I understand is that there was a meeting at Aurora's house across the street from the plant. Were you at that meeting? That

01:23:12.229 - 01:23:34.319

was when they decided to do this. Were you at that meeting? Can you describe it for me? Well, it was decided that we need to do something very dramatic and the Um, A hunger strike. They were saying it's like a tradition in Mexico to to to

01:23:34.319 - 01:23:53.875

do a hunger strikes, so let's do it. And we could use Oa's house to go to the bathrooms and we'll be. There for, you know, a week and then we'll culminate into the martyr to the church and then the church, yeah, and then the church was

01:23:53.875 - 01:24:17.899

refused to receive the strikers and said, OK, let's we're going to do it anyway because our church, we all of our families go to this church and then so. On Saint Patrick's, yeah, and on the day, like, probably half an hour before we got there, they

01:24:17.899 - 01:24:32.310

opened the church, yeah, according to Joey, he and some other people ran ahead and they buttonhole the priest and said you're gonna look terrible if you don't open those doors. Is that you don't know if that's true yeah it could be it could be, and I

01:24:32.310 - 01:24:54.640

gather you have the media following along and they did that, um. Yeah, I remember that the strikers were very, very tired by then. The lines were, um, really sad and thin and um didn't want to be at that point. Oh yeah, it's been going on for

01:24:54.640 - 01:25:12.564

a very long time. Must have been a tough. No, I don't think so. Uh, it was actually easy decision because they want, I, I remember they wanted uh to inject this energy back in, you know, I mean the decision not to accept the contract. 00 yeah.

01:25:13.910 - 01:25:28.189

I mean, here again I'll quote Gloria I said. She said, well, of course, you know, of course we weren't gonna we went on strike for our health benefits in the first place, we're going to go back without them. And then I said, Well, were you worried

01:25:28.189 - 01:25:44.629

about continuing to strike without us, you know, to just sanction. And she was silent for about 2 beats and she said, yes, you know, um. But what can you do? Yeah, I mean it must have been, well, I mean they could have accepted it and gone

01:25:44.629 - 01:25:58.950

back and actually Sergio told me that I think in the real world. Most of them would have gotten their benefits pretty quickly, but he said that it did make, he said I want to give Joe credit, you know, the contract was better for what he did

01:25:58.950 - 01:26:14.350

because the language was explicit, you know, that they would get there. Yeah they would have they would have had no face. I mean that's what they felt we went out on this and we stayed out for 18 months for this. No way. Well it turns out,

01:26:15.020 - 01:26:28.240

according to David Gill it was fairly small potatoes for him, you know, I mean they worked out I guess Alex worked out some kind of a funding gimmick so that um. You know, they, they could take them. They could take some money out of the pension

01:26:28.240 - 01:26:39.120

and put it into healthcare, so you know it would still cost you a little more than you reckoned on, but it wasn't gonna break the bank, and Bill's attitude was, you know, I was a little suppliers. This was just one more cost for me to figure

01:26:39.120 - 01:26:53.040

into my balance sheet, but I wanted to open the damn file. I wanted to settle it that I needed the union workers because they were the ones with experience, you know, and he was very, I said, were you? Were you freaked out when that thing was

01:26:53.040 - 01:27:05.879

voted down he said, Oh, I'm disappointed, you know, but that, you know, surgery didn't have complete control of the situation. I understood that he had to he had to persuade his own people and then, you know, they, they were not necessarily gonna do whatever he told

01:27:05.879 - 01:27:26.700

them to do, you know, that's, that's life, you know, the strike had so many control centers. No had control. The strike. That's interesting. Well, the striker the workers. The workers couldn't control the union. The union can't control the owner. The owner can control the conditions of

01:27:26.910 - 01:27:46.299

of return. So the, the control was very decentralized and everybody had a piece of the solution. Yeah. And the work and then there were these multiple strike support committees that were competing for, I don't know what, you know, power and control, which nobody had. So I

01:27:46.299 - 01:28:04.830

mean the whole thing was very much a drama with many, many plots. Well, this is one thing, you know that I'm realizing that it was a very complex. Another thing that annoyed me about Silver's movie is how simple-minded it is. It's like it's all about TDU,

01:28:05.209 - 01:28:19.899

you know, and those who support it and those who didn't, um, and, uh, that pretty much is yardstick. What did you know here, by the way, did you? I remember the name. Yeah, he's kind of the skinny guy with a beard, yeah, yeah, kind of, yeah,

01:28:20.109 - 01:28:37.959

he was from Santa Cruz and I mean he got great, there's great footage, you know, he's a very skilled filmmaker, but you know I just felt like, uh, I think he's Joe's friend. I mean he's. Yeah, they were so, so they had, you know, so there

01:28:37.959 - 01:29:00.160

was Cruz and Frank, TDU, and then you had Chuck Mac and you had Serial and then you had the strikers Committee and you had all these strike support. I mean, so everybody was kind of with this big puzzle. Um, Would you know how to locate Maria?

01:29:00.180 - 01:29:16.609

Yeah, yeah, she is. She works for an agency called um Try Community Bridges. I think she works for Community Bridges. I wonder if they have a website. We're leaving town Sunday morning, so I'm gonna have to just want to come back in August, but yeah, it

01:29:16.609 - 01:29:35.299

seems like she would be a great person to come out to, yeah, um. Yeah. Did she have issues with Cruz? Oh yeah, uh-huh. Even people who like to have issues with her, yeah, yeah, um, I, I, I asked that because you said you get the other

01:29:35.299 - 01:29:53.250

side talking to her, um, OK, well, she's someone to look up, uh, what about the woman whose idea was to have the Lamar the Anita Contreras is the one that held up the virgin, the the virgin. This is a name I haven't heard before the march.

01:29:54.120 - 01:30:17.020

Was she active at all? Was she, you know, she's like Aurora was just backbone of the strikers. So she was actually participating too. And when you say strikers, you're referring to the group that was elected to meetings, I'm

01:30:17.020 - 01:30:40.379

referring to the strikers. Very quickly went beyond that group of 9 people that were elected that big meeting in October so they were elected from the strikers and I think they were reluctant to represent them without like saying they're it. They were never meant to just

01:30:40.379 - 01:31:04.410

be a free standing body. Can you describe those 5 days when you were camped out in the, I mean, what you talked about all kinds of shit, just gossip and family and um you know, who's where and who's coming back and you know, where these snaps

01:31:04.410 - 01:31:24.669

coming from, um, kind of everything. Do you remember uh a big demonstration when the plant reopened on Monday morning, the first day of operation and. Uh, according to Joe, there was a big mob of angry people there. They wouldn't let any cars getting and stuff like

01:31:24.669 - 01:31:38.390

that. Of course the police had backed off. Do you remember that happening? I mean, you were, your chair was set up right in front of the plan, wasn't it? Uh, was there, was there a big crowd that first day Monday morning when they when they started

01:31:38.390 - 01:31:59.600

up again? Do you remember that? There were strike breakers, right? Well, um, is that, is that here's Joe's account of those last days. He goes into a great detail about it because I think I was really that was his his chance to shine, I think. Um,

01:32:01.109 - 01:32:14.569

He said that that some of the managers in the plant were afraid they were gonna lose their jobs if the union was called back in. I I even think of smiling because I know that Joel told me that whatever the terms of the agreement he negotiated

01:32:14.569 - 01:32:30.669

with Sergio and Alex, the one thing everybody insisted on was Smiley had to go. Nobody wanted in there, um, and the union would not go back and smiling is still running the players. So Joe's story is that presumably smiley and some other people who are afraid

01:32:30.669 - 01:32:44.229

they're gonna be booted out of there. Uh, put an ad on the want to do a paper, I guess over the weekend advertising for scabs, and we're hoping that a big bunch of people would show up and there be a big ruckus and a big riot,

01:32:45.240 - 01:33:12.069

but Because you guys were having a hunger strike, it sort of distracted attention from it. I think there were like 25 people. I wanna say it was no more than that, and um they might have been 75 workers taunting them and yelling 3 tickets for 5

01:33:12.069 - 01:33:29.830

at the most. Yeah, these ss people who had been working in the plants or they were they brand new people? Mm, I think they were. You know, I remember I think there were 3 or 5 strikers who crossed the line and they got talented the most.

01:33:29.979 - 01:33:55.060

We mechanics, you know, full-time people. I, I don't remember. I think so. I'm I'm I'm signing Joe's account. when the vote went down, he was afraid that some of the people who had voted no would cross the picket line and go back in, uh, and he

01:33:55.060 - 01:34:11.560

drafted a letter, took it to Sergio confirms he took it to Sergio's house over the weekend and said I need your signature on this. Please sign it. I'll reproduce it. I'll pass it out to everybody and You know, Sergio was furious. Because he felt that Joe

01:34:11.560 - 01:34:27.330

had sabotaged the settlement, but he did sign the letter. Uh, and jump out and passed down based on what it says we all go back in together or we don't go back, you know, please and, and, um, me and my comment to Joe and that took

01:34:27.330 - 01:34:40.810

a lot of moxy to do that because, you know, I knew that Sergio was silent because I knew how as angry as I knew he was at me. I knew he did not want the strike to end with people to sort of trickling back in, you

01:34:40.810 - 01:34:55.709

know, he was a decent person. He did not want to strike to end that way, and I knew that. Um, he was just like I knew the demand was winnable. I raised that to Frank, and Frank said, well, Joe's presuming an awful lot there. I don't,

01:34:55.790 - 01:35:11.370

I don't think there was any reason to assume that the command was winnable. I think it was the right thing to do. I think it worked, so all all's well that ends well, but you know it was a gamble. Yeah, apparently it wasn't such a camel

01:35:11.370 - 01:35:32.790

because, you know, it wasn't that big a deal to him, but of course nobody else had any way of knowing that Alice might have known that. Really? What was his reaction when when the boat went the way it did? I think they were a little upset,

01:35:32.870 - 01:35:53.490

but I think it was just like, yo, it's kind of annoying, yeah, I mean, I know Sergio was like, you know, livid. And it made him look like a jackass too because I think the strategist, and he had, you know, he and Gil probably had it

01:35:53.490 - 01:36:11.640

all worked out. This won't work and we'll do this. If that will work, we'll do this. But that's the way Alex worked. Alex, I mean Alex was like a chess player. He wouldn't do X without knowing he could do Y. He had experience with a lot

01:36:11.640 - 01:36:33.870

of strikes before he went to Washington. And I was I was very smart. Yeah he was brilliant and he was kind of good natured. I mean, you know, he was, you like him. I liked him. He was, you know, charming and personable. I like Alice. I

01:36:33.870 - 01:36:47.180

thought he was really smart and he would, you know, I always knew he didn't tell us everything, but he would just tell us enough. You know he was like a it was like a chess set to him, you know, and he would say, OK, well you

01:36:47.180 - 01:37:05.200

guys can do this and we'll do this and then you can do that, OK. So that morning I remember there was a, so there was kind of a shock of the people that had come back in town to go back and, and there weren't that many.

01:37:06.569 - 01:37:30.430

And I remember Gloria knew them and was like, what the fuck you. I was shocked to see the picket line still up there and everything. They could see it far away, so they are people who had been out of town to go back to work, and

01:37:30.430 - 01:37:49.759

they weren't been privy to that and probably I don't know. So there was a handful of them. There wasn't a lot. And then there were other strike breakers were going in for work. And there weren't like there weren't that many like couldn't run. And uh Joe

01:37:49.759 - 01:38:04.149

told me that I even go when he tried to drive into the plant, people were pounding. Stuff like you didn't mention that, but uh go ahead do you remember that? And then we got all the cards didn't know which one was it didn't, yeah, yeah, yeah,

01:38:07.799 - 01:38:36.879

um. And then let's see, you were there. You had a meeting at Aurora's house was on Friday right after the meeting and the meeting was in the late afternoon on Friday, was it? And then we started that night who set the terms? Uh, we all did.

01:38:36.890 - 01:39:07.220

You had Aurora, uh-huh and had a tent, um, just like we didn't have that many. There wasn't that many of us. I think there were 32, right, yeah, um. And uh you just showed up there Friday night and stayed over the weekend and then Monday and

01:39:07.220 - 01:39:33.540

Tuesday and then Wednesday there was dropped. Um, when did the market take place? Um, Saturday, was it? No, wait. The church wasn't open but it was a weekday probably right after the prayer they tried to open the. Um, probably Tuesday I actually can probably look at

01:39:33.540 - 01:40:03.419

the newspaper accounts and see, um, don't count on my, yeah, yeah, that was amazing. I remember feeling like, you know, um. That these women after this long. Had so much faith that God was on their side, even through all the shit that they've been through and

01:40:03.419 - 01:40:29.189

that they have so much faith that they can Do this, the strike, this action. I was in awe of them. I was, I was just totally floored. I remember feeling like I can't believe this. I mean that that day probably brought me closer to Being a

01:40:29.189 - 01:40:46.549

convert as I've ever been, so when I, yeah, when I was 3, my dad died. My mom said, if God is so great, why did he take your dad away? OK, so from that day on, God was a bad guy in my book, right? OK, yeah,

01:40:46.709 - 01:41:05.839

right, OK, right. So then that day watching them and walking with them to the church, I remember thinking, man, if they could believe there's something good here that um. That maybe they're right, you know, I mean as close to God as I have ever come. And

01:41:05.839 - 01:41:23.359

then of course when did you get the word about the that they changed that they come up with new language? Was it Tuesday night? Was it Wednesday morning? How did it go down? Oh, I know that the the final ratification took place was over with by

01:41:23.359 - 01:41:45.520

10 o'clock on Wednesday 10 in the morning, so people were so so Tuesday you heard that they had another agreement. It was probably 24 hours, and then a mad rush to organize the word. Do you think that what you did had any impact on the negotiations,

01:41:45.629 - 01:42:01.250

or do you think it's just the fact that Um I'd like to think that, but I don't know, probably not because they had to come up with something else like, you know, mainly it was, it was all for the strikers. It was all for it was

01:42:01.250 - 01:42:17.790

a great symbolic. Well, gosh, I'm sure I'm gonna think of more questions, um. Uh, How should we turn off the tape recorder, but um. I I there's some I do want