00:00:01.059 - 00:00:37.939

OK, we're on the air. um give me a quick summary of what's that's February 1987 between the Watsonville strikers and sport committees. Mike K. It's Mike Kay. discussion of the boycott of Wells Fargo Flyer. The strikers not wanting to sign the flyer. Um, specifically Santa Cruz

00:00:37.939 - 00:01:02.009

and Watsonville, supposedly Santa Cruz has two more paragraphs criticizing. Uh It's unclear. Mike Kuyall is, I think his name. He was in the Santa Cruz Strike Support Committee. Quest? Yeah, K L Y S T A L, is that right? Oh yeah. Um, Barke was raising the

00:01:02.009 - 00:01:22.889

relationship to the Northern California Watsonville strike Support Committee and the Monday meetings that some of the strikers Committee won't want to. Distribute flyers from Santa Cruz and WSC. Um, Leaflets are signed by concerned citizens. What group is calling and mounting and distributing the flyers at Wells

00:01:22.889 - 00:01:49.660

Fargo Concerned Citizens or the Watson Support Committee. General principle should be that flyers be signed and people will not take responsibility for the line being. Uh, put forward Mike Questall saying no names on the flyers because it was made in between meetings. Um, Jim Bo. Brough

00:01:49.660 - 00:02:14.608

from CP said the union disavowed Wells Fargo. Therefore, the strikers Committee won't sign it. Um, strikers wouldn't put it out because the union wouldn't put the flyer out. Karen Fahey says the union fears securing a boycott. could get could get sued by the banks because um

00:02:14.908 - 00:02:38.399

they fear doing the boycott because they're fearful of getting sued by the banks. Um Mike says parallel course of groups not working together with the NCWSS like to sign the WSC Santa Cruz Flyer. CP Jim Brough saying add quote divest now to the flyers. Tell Wells

00:02:38.399 - 00:03:04.279

Fargo to keep the plant open and sign a contract. Bar to key motion to add name to the flyer. John, hm Silver probably yeah, John Silver revoke the evictions and blacklists if unity is an important issue, motion should be raised. Mm. So this topic is relations

00:03:04.279 - 00:03:25.110

between sport committees. John Silver separate efforts exist, uh, differences. Let's clear the air and move off of these divisions, existing differences never dealt with. From solidarity days 1 and 2. What are the relationships, where is the work going in the future? Bartake no sense in talking

00:03:25.110 - 00:03:51.929

about detailed betrayals. Overall political perspectives. Fay, Karen Fahey have questions about going to strikers meetings raising issues of Uh, votes on whether open meetings or not. Deal with the issue of moving forward and becoming involved. Um, whether people should be signing the flyers is uncomfortable. Mike,

00:03:52.520 - 00:04:20.019

search for common ground. Next meeting raise raising the plant could close with strikers getting no money plant closure. Hearing this around the plant retention supervisors turned it over to the staff. And have been shined on. Uh, Seeer Fahy on the inside, coming to report to us,

00:04:20.269 - 00:04:42.690

getting updates, uh, mistakes are being made, continue to look back and do better next time, feeling stuck, limited time. Jimbra, more unity now between the strikers Committee and WSC and SCSC because now working together on Wells Fargo, the flyer could Uh, What is that? Yeah, rupture

00:04:42.690 - 00:05:12.059

tenuous unity. So this is basically tactical thing at this stage, um. Mike, not exchanging $2 for pennies, just informational. Um, This is interesting. Let's see. Frank Bar for yourself. Self initial initial only in terms of not understanding the national question. This is not Corsetti. LRRS is

00:05:12.059 - 00:05:29.250

important, has played an important role in terms of raising the national question in a good way, ideologically equipped, not national question kept people together. That sounds like him. Difference of opinion of working with trade union bureaucrats in the 1980s and whether a strike of this dimension

00:05:29.250 - 00:05:49.570

can be won if you follow the union hierarchy. Stubborn 1000 kept their end of the deal, will win it if you just stay out. Uh, when it legally need deeper level of unity of the strikers and struggle need sympathy. Um, Extrey strikes strikes and hot cargo

00:05:49.570 - 00:06:22.000

campaigns. The legal level of unity, can't read that strike has proven. The bureaucracy is. I can. Did did anybody from the say anything in this meeting? It sounds like. Uh, funny. I mean, it sounds like you guys just sort of sat there and there have been

00:06:22.000 - 00:06:57.750

crap. Yes, that's our approach to hear them out and see what to say. And it sounds like in here with the knowledge based on openness and mutual knowledge. mistrust in courts raised. Criticisms raised, feeling of exclusion and being forgotten to be mentioned, thousands of dollars raised

00:06:57.750 - 00:07:15.320

by, you know, the county sport committee should be raised directly, not. I can't remember if you see that, but they were kind of raising money and spending it on behalf of the strikers and buying milk and eggs and just rather than letting the strikers decide how

00:07:15.320 - 00:07:31.029

the money should be spent. I wondered about that because there were a lot of people raising money. There were a lot of people doing their own little aid operations. I know Cruz Gomez would run around town offering to help people with evictions. Hm, yeah, that's interesting.

00:07:31.279 - 00:07:45.160

Um, well, I, I, I got this from Bartay. Um, he said, you know, it was kind of a visual joke around Watson about the Cruz would be running around with this big armload of papers under her arm, you know, offering to help people and, you know,

00:07:45.329 - 00:07:59.130

fight evictions, and I have a leaflet. That Bartay saved, you know, which I think she wrote up saying, you know, you don't have to be evicted just because you're on strike, we can help you, that kind of thing. Um, was she able to do that? Did

00:07:59.130 - 00:08:17.350

she don't do a lot I I probably, you know, um. I, uh, but I mean it's like she had her little thing and the Santa Cruz people were having fundraisers, um, you know, uh. There was a local, you know, the Watsonville strike Sport Committee. I mean,

00:08:17.390 - 00:08:46.758

it seems like there were a lot of people. During the strike, supporters operating on pretty much parallel tracks. And um was this, do you remember the context of this meeting? I seem to recall that. It was Well, clearly it's around. The point where Wells Fargo is

00:08:46.758 - 00:09:09.799

being considered. To be boycotted. Because they're subsidizing, still putting out loans to keep them afloat before they withdrew all that. Well, here's my question. I mean I know that. Um, well, there's that, that picture of, you know, the strikers and I guess Cherie and Oscar were

00:09:09.799 - 00:09:23.820

in the picture too, people going to the bank and there's that frightened looking cop on the front. I think we ran on unity. It also ran the registered pile on and. And Chuck Mac, actually, I have a document that he sent out where he raised the

00:09:23.820 - 00:09:44.020

possibility of putting local 912 and trusteeship. And once again, I believe that was dated February of '87 and one of the things he mentioned was like outsiders campaigning against Wells Fargo and exposing the union to possible legal liability. Because local 912 had not done enough to

00:09:44.020 - 00:10:02.599

stop this stuff. um 87 seems awfully late in the game, doesn't it? what what what was the timeline? Do you have a, have you developed the timeline? I want to try to press Chuck for more details about that that trusteeship threat. The first person to mention

00:10:02.599 - 00:10:25.969

it to me was Sarah. Um, I was quick to sweat, you know. Yeah, a lot of that was invisible to me, all these negotiations, so. that Tom would have been more on top of The details of that. Yeah, and then as well as maybe Kim. Well,

00:10:26.010 - 00:10:47.500

let me, I actually, you know, Maybe we could go chronologically on this. Just try to, you know, use our time a little better. Yeah, but I don't think it was much earlier. We moved into Armando's place and we had moved into Armando's family's house for a

00:10:47.500 - 00:11:08.460

week or two. That would be Gloria's brother, yeah, and and then he left town, he moved his family back to Mexico, and he was a um line supervisor or something like that, some sort of in between, yeah, yeah. And uh And then we finally got that

00:11:08.460 - 00:11:29.809

one bedroom apartment up on Stanford. But when you moved into his family's place. Let's get a timeline on that. Was that before the strike happened? I think it was after one of the big, the major one with confronting the police that was yeah that was the

00:11:29.809 - 00:11:47.849

first thing I had gone down to she went down early October then yeah before the strikers formed her just around then, you know, I think it practically formed on that day is what I recall. I don't remember. No, maybe not, maybe formed before then. OK, so

00:11:47.849 - 00:12:05.760

really the kind of questions I have. You know, Manuel's probably the only one who could answer them unless Tom, you know. I guess Manuel was in town I guess at that point and was in and out, but he was really operating out of San Jose, that's

00:12:05.760 - 00:12:19.880

right. I mean Mike I talked to and he, he was busy feuding with Ken Path at that point over how to divvy up TDUs, you know, the money he was raising, you know, TDU National wanted to have it and Mike wanted to use it for the

00:12:19.880 - 00:12:40.679

cannery work. You know, um, Manuel was working in San Jose initially, wasn't he when he first. Seem to me he was on the road too going between canneries a lot, yeah, and he went to Watsonville once the strike started. Um, did you guys talk about that

00:12:40.679 - 00:13:01.090

much? I mean, maybe I, I can't, yeah, about what it was like in Watsonville before Solidarity Day. I mean, that's what I want to get information on. Uh, no, not really. What it was like. Uh We're just that, you know, this console went on. Little salt

00:13:02.070 - 00:13:23.429

Precipitating the whole thing, but No, not a lot, yeah. I mean, Oscar, when I interviewed him, said that Manuel had already done a lot of the groundwork. He introduced him to a lot of people. Uh Manuel already had gotten the trust of a lot of the

00:13:23.429 - 00:13:37.590

workers. Yeah, we were going out to coffee a lot, Manuel and me and and most of it I didn't even understand it was in Spanish, right, um, but he was just building relations and building trust and talking to people. Yeah, yeah, we spent a lot of

00:13:37.590 - 00:14:03.750

time in that coffee shop talking to who, uh, Gloria and Aurora and Check out O and uh who else um. Were these people who We like taking leadership roles even before the strikers Committee was elected. I mean, I know Chavela was right out there, you know,

00:14:03.909 - 00:14:22.099

helping organize the picket lines from day one just because that was the kind of guy he was, he would volunteer. Yeah, my impression was well I was. Well known within the plant prior to the strike and you know, Gloria's got that bearing, she stands out. With

00:14:22.099 - 00:14:55.869

the rainbow eyelashes and stuff, um. And was speaking out, but um. Yeah, so I don't know exactly what her internal role was within. But she seemed to have already earned a certain level. Recognition and respect. I did Chevella, but um. It wasn't clear to me how

00:14:56.400 - 00:15:13.239

the Strikers Committee. I, I recall there was some sort of election. Hi Ariel, we're borrowing your space for a sec. How are you doing? Oh, OK, we can move if if you want to take over your office again. Did you get food? Did you in here?

00:15:13.289 - 00:15:33.530

No. OK. I'm gonna shut it again. This is Peter. Hi Peter. He is the director of the Native American Student Union. We're talking about this. Peter's trying to write a book about this famous cannery worker strike with 1100 Mexican women down in Watsonville, which is in

00:15:33.530 - 00:15:52.034

Santa Cruz County. And I got involved in the media and strikers committee doing legal support work out of legal aid. I can't remember anything is a problem because it's so long. And Peter was a big box full of papers to read and I can't read his

00:15:52.034 - 00:16:15.869

hand. Peter was editor of the Union newspaper for postal workers up in Portland. He's out of Portland now, but at the time he was our editor out of Oakland for Unity Newspaper. Oh yeah, yeah. So, um, to continue, I mean, were you present? Was Oscar present

00:16:15.869 - 00:16:42.109

or was Manuel present when the strikers Committee was elected? Uh, I think Manuel was. I don't think I was uh. I don't remember it anyway. Um, was it before one of the so there's, there were a couple of solidarity first solidar was October 6th, and basically

00:16:42.109 - 00:17:02.940

that was when, you know, all the anchors sort of at that TDU kind of broke out in the open because You know, Joe pretty much tried to do everything himself. And Um, You know, made some fairly quashed like tactical mistakes. I mean, he was what were

00:17:02.940 - 00:17:20.989

those? Not letting the people who came down from the Bay Area speak, you know, um, not having proper security set up. Uh, I think Oscar was saying the first thing he did was it's like there were all these cops and they were grabbing people at the

00:17:20.989 - 00:17:34.229

drop of a hat and Oscar as soon as I got 10 people to recruit 10 more people and then you know we had a line of 100 people basically separating the cops from the margins, but that just happened right on the spot because Oscar, his assessment

00:17:34.229 - 00:17:50.500

was that. Nobody was taking responsibility for this stuff. I remember that, you know, Joe, you know, I think was, he got a lot of flack for the way he handled that situation. I think he was just way out of his depth, you know, the guy was

00:17:50.500 - 00:18:07.869

what, 24 years old. He was a dropout from UC Santa Cruz, you know, he was a UPS driver. I mean he didn't really. Have that much experience. Yeah, yeah, I mean he made a lot of rookie mistakes, I think. Yeah, I didn't realize that. I thought

00:18:07.869 - 00:18:22.760

he'd been in the industry a lot longer. Oh no, he was never, he did not actually work in a cannery until a few years ago. When I interviewed him, he was working a summer shift at a business agent. How did he become a business agent so

00:18:22.760 - 00:18:43.150

quickly? He was a UPS driver and you know he was 12 and he was, he became the head of TDU, you know, in Watsonville, which he had originally organized. Um But you know, it's like Bartake ran against Richard King in 3 years before the strike. He

00:18:43.150 - 00:19:03.640

came within a hair's breadth of winning. Uh And you know it frightened him to death because he wasn't prepared to actually assume leadership of the local. So he kind of backed off and handed the reins over to Joe and uh Jose Lopez um. And objectively that

00:19:03.640 - 00:19:21.079

was Joe because Jose I guess was not the most stable guy in the world. Did you know him? No, I remember the name coming up a lot and maybe popping up, but I'm not talking about the, the one apparently he's still around. I guess I could

00:19:21.079 - 00:19:38.910

try to find him, but it seems like he was always getting in trouble with the law, you know, um. And you know, my sense of what the TDU chapter was like. Um, In those days was that it tended to attract, as, as, as Joe put it,

00:19:38.920 - 00:19:53.640

the angry men. You know, the most militant people on the planet, you know, they were the, the, the guys who during the strike would be heaving Molotov cocktails through a supervisor window of a supervisor's house kind of thing, but they weren't necessarily representative at the. The

00:19:53.640 - 00:20:08.380

mass of workers, but they were the ones who gravitated TDU and wanted to get into this kind of confrontational thing. With not even with management so much as with Richard King. I don't remember Molotov being heaped. Well, that happened. I don't know very much about it,

00:20:08.500 - 00:20:21.180

you know, and I don't know if I'll get people to talk about it. I mean, the registeronian was full of it. I mean, I, I remember asking Sergio about one incident that was reported in the strike, and he said, you know. That had nothing to do

00:20:21.180 - 00:20:38.050

with the strike. That was a lover's quarrel, you know, it was like we got blamed for it, that's funny. No, there was, there was stuff like that. There was a warehouse that burned down. And um actually Shavella told me that Cherie called him up at 4

00:20:38.050 - 00:20:57.099

o'clock in the morning in tears about it, you know she was that upset. Uh She was afraid it would discredit the strike and You know, in Shilo's opinion, uh, consulate probably set the fire himself to collect some insurance. Oh yeah, you know, I mean, yeah, it

00:20:57.099 - 00:21:09.410

was inside the gates. If you know anybody anything specifics of any of these, tell me. Um, well, I, I believe that he was flying down to Mexico and bringing up a lot of cocaine and selling it to the workers and the managers were all on coke,

00:21:09.930 - 00:21:26.530

and I felt like that was actually one of the reasons he had the, the gall to try to decertify and take over Shahs because of this megalomania. The, um, some of the team's officials, the white dudes, old guard said, tell me, um, not King, but, um,

00:21:26.540 - 00:21:44.109

his business agent, what's his name, um, a big, big guy. Mustache, um, but they would tell me. Consul would come out in his underwear, actually snort it up in the union hall, walk in the union hall and snort openly and, and then say, let's go haul,

00:21:44.260 - 00:21:58.459

you know, heave rocks in my Leon Ellis or yeah, Leon Ellis, yeah, Leon Ellen. And then I was doing the legal intake, um, with Jose Lopez, a lawyer and with an interpreter and, and some of these guys who are inside were saying, yeah, they're selling us

00:21:58.459 - 00:22:16.329

coke and getting, you know, speeding us up and stuff, whatever. But we never pursued it. We just knew about it. Nobody was going to talk about it in the court of law and or to cops, but Um And I remember early on we were trying to

00:22:16.329 - 00:22:39.439

put pressure on the scabs. And uh cut off some of the scabs that are being provided by. This job training employment agency out of Monterey, which had some CIA guys who are counselors, job counselors, and um So they cooperated because we told them they would be,

00:22:39.670 - 00:22:58.359

well they're putting those Vietnamese scabs in positions of Like that they're in positions of liability by putting them in dangerous work situations and uh and then at one point we were taking pictures of scabs, photographs and posting them around neighborhoods and Doing little raids, throwing rocks

00:22:58.359 - 00:23:20.849

at buses of scabs going into. The plant late at night. The carfuls of scabs and smashing windows. Uh, you guys just open up, yeah, I'm gonna do. Thanks Earl. This is, this is interesting. This is stuff I knew nothing about, so any, any the more details,

00:23:20.890 - 00:23:36.310

the better. So I was, I was out there heaving rocks too, because our position was, well, maybe we shouldn't be doing that. But I feel like if we're not gonna discourage her and kind of tacitly encourage strikers, including our people who really wanted to do it.

00:23:37.280 - 00:23:55.819

And then I felt like we're being hypocritical about it and so I was out there running with them throwing rocks at these cars, which, you know, it's like being back in Berkeley. Yeah, so um. I don't know. Those, so for a while I thought we were

00:23:55.819 - 00:24:12.369

putting a little effective pressure on some of the scabs, but what time are we talking about now? Um, that was early on, but during one of the slow points where people were getting frustrated about the scabs just rolling on in and they're continuing to Produce and

00:24:12.369 - 00:24:29.500

um and we just felt we needed to up the pressure on the scabs. Was this before Shaw settled or after? Uh, I think it was before, and in fact, I recall our going to another plant. What, what was the other plant? Was it Crossetti that walked

00:24:29.500 - 00:24:53.229

out to? Sha Shaw, yeah, yeah, and, um. And I had, I was taking photographs of scabs and one guy pulled out a knife on me. Mhm. Uh, and the striker separated us. Mhm. And um So that was around the, just around the Shaw walkout. And So

00:24:53.229 - 00:25:16.060

it's pretty early on. Were you privy to the, uh, I, I know the meeting where the Shaw settlement was announced was pretty stormy. Were you able to get in? Do you remember anything about that? I don't remember that much about it. I just remember the. There

00:25:16.060 - 00:25:33.040

is a sense of compromise and stuff like that. Well, I mean, I've got a whole riff on Shaw that I've gotten, you know, from different people. Um I think Either Frank or Joe has reached the conclusion. I think Joe has reached the conclusion by now that

00:25:34.290 - 00:25:56.319

He was criticized rather harshly in that John Silver documentary for not speaking out against the Shah settlement. Which, you know Talk about self-righteous, you know, silver, yeah, yeah, I mean. And Joe has come to the conclusion that really that strike was lost by that point anyway.

00:25:57.170 - 00:26:16.550

Uh, too many people were too many of the workers had gone back to work. And His theory, uh, well, actually it's Frank's theory was that Shaw's workforce tended to be drawn from all over, whereas everybody from Watsonville County actually lived in town and it's much harder

00:26:16.550 - 00:26:35.300

to scab on your neighbors, you know. Also they were from the same region in Mexico. It was that they were really. They knew each other, uh, and relatives knew each other. So that was one of the cohesive things that you did not. Betray your neighbors and

00:26:35.300 - 00:26:59.390

extended family essentially so there's that kind of regional cultural cohesion. I don't know, um, Cheri would probably know that, um, since she knew more Spanish than I did, but Um, I think that was one of the extraordinary factors. Why nobody ever crossed that picket line out

00:26:59.390 - 00:27:15.170

of 100 and also how they were able to bring people back for the the recertification vote. Yeah, I've always wondered how they did that. Yeah, me too, you know it seems to me, but When I asked Gloria and Shavelo about it, it's like they're, you know.

00:27:16.089 - 00:27:26.810

We knew we could do it. No big deal, you know, I mean we, we kept tabs on everybody. We every any time somebody left town, they left their contact information with us and all we had to do was just we entered the Union hall, took over

00:27:26.810 - 00:27:41.170

the phone lines, and we tracked everybody down. It was just, you know, just a matter of doing it. It wasn't a matter of how to do it, um, I guess your brother was one of the ones who came back from Mexico for that vote, right. Armando

00:27:41.170 - 00:27:56.310

had already pretty much decided to take his kids out of Watsonville, right? Yeah. He was worried about the youth scene in town. Oh, the gang stuff, you know, this is Alex. point that you know he was, he was worried about the kids getting into drugs and

00:27:56.310 - 00:28:21.560

stuff like that and he thought they'd be. Safer, you know, in Mexico. They're young little girls. They're small little girls. I remember that. Hm. Did you know Gloria's husband? No, uh, what was, who was he? Uh, um, what's his name, uh, Amador. I mean they they

00:28:21.560 - 00:28:37.719

split up during the strike. But he, she actually suggested I, she gave me his phone number and suggested I try to interview him. He didn't want to talk because he wound up doing a year, a year of hard time for what? Well, here Gloria Telly took

00:28:37.719 - 00:28:53.079

the fall for a bunch of people who were, you know, arrested for some kind of strike related violence, you know, he basically got set up for them and understandably, I think he didn't want to talk about it. Oh, remember what's his name, um, the trots guy,

00:28:53.160 - 00:29:08.060

he ended up working for the SCIU. Kind of came in. He and his family, in fact, his wife and kids got deported and they got picked up as undocumented. Oh no. We're living with him, and he was pretty key. He was a young militant guy kind

00:29:08.060 - 00:29:24.290

of trust his leanings because he had yeah, Carlos. Oh, yeah, he was around at the end. Yeah. When was he deported? He wasn't deported. His, his, his wife and daughters were, um. Actually prior to the strike, but it was just part of their history, family history,

00:29:24.410 - 00:29:44.489

and uh and we were all living together in that apartment for a little while in uh in uh East Armando's apartment, right? No, in uh the one we rented the one bedroom in Stamford off Stanford. So when was this? When, when were we living together, uh.

00:29:45.790 - 00:30:03.410

Well, we kind of Had a, not a falling out, but there were some differences with him, Carlos, he I can't remember what they were, but they, well, I remember Carlos was considered kind of ultra left. In fact, I remember Oscar doing a little, uh, agitprop routine.

00:30:06.699 - 00:30:25.619

Which I I don't know. It was like two bad ways to organize people. Like one is like the guy who won't raise any politics, and the other is the guy who just raises politics to the most absurd level, you know, and Oscar and Shuri were doing

00:30:25.619 - 00:30:43.199

it, you know, and Cheri was the worker who's just lost her job and Oscar only wants to talk about imperialism, you know, and she said, What about my job. It was very funny, you know, and pulls out a ballpoint pen. This is a symbol of imperialism,

00:30:43.300 - 00:31:03.650

you know, it's like about my job my impression was that that was, you know, but he was out there. I remember him heaving running up to the cops as the cops were throwing tear gas canisters at us and picking them up and throwing them right back

00:31:03.650 - 00:31:17.609

at the cops, and I remember the, the tear gas canisters, their own tear gas canister. He would these guys would go running up to the canisters as they were smoking out and pick them up and he them back to the cops. He was really. I mean

00:31:17.609 - 00:31:38.869

that kind of thing, it happens a lot in Mexico. I mean I think. The level of political Engagement is much more uh, yeah, yeah, which also gets you shut out, yeah, yeah, well keeps down there I think. And um I remember a discussion of Carlos that

00:31:38.869 - 00:32:03.380

I, I sat in on and You know, um The gist of it was that because he had some background. You know, in the organized life in Mexico, the assumption was that he was more we be giving too much credit in terms of how he was. Yeah,

00:32:03.660 - 00:32:19.500

it was a bit of a hot dog, yeah, yeah. But uh, which is why I was surprised that he stayed the course and ended up being a business agent for the SEIU out of San Jose. I mean, so he still works later. Uh, I haven't been

00:32:19.500 - 00:32:30.729

in touch with him for years, but that's, I remember years after the tracked him down and talk to him, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure you'd have a very different take on a lot of stuff, but it's OK. I'm getting a whole bunch of different takes,

00:32:30.739 - 00:32:55.819

yeah. Yeah, um, You know your memory is better and you give yourself credit for being steep. You're telling me some stuff I haven't heard. Well, you know. Um Getting back to To you and Manuel and Carlos were sharing a place. Mhm. This would have been after

00:32:55.819 - 00:33:25.109

you moved out of Armando's place was there too. Oscar was there living there too. Almost asked who did the dishes. Um, And this was during the This is later on in the strike. Mhm. Um, And then Cherie and Paul were down there, right? They were still

00:33:25.109 - 00:33:44.189

married at that point. That's right. I'd completely forgotten that Paul was in Watsonville. Yeah, me too. I was pretty quiet. Yeah, I never talked to him about it. Yeah, and I worked closely with him for years, you know, in the Oakland PO. Oh. Well, yeah, poor

00:33:44.189 - 00:34:08.580

Paul. I always felt bad for Paul because we always around and, you know, I mean she never made it. about being promiscuous and shit. He was, I mean, Paul is a very solid, hardworking, selfless, you know. Uh, you know, he's got that kind of Catholic temperament

00:34:08.580 - 00:34:24.949

about him. You know, just take whatever crap life he was on you and just soldier on, you know. But without the belief that you'll be rewarded for it in the world, you know. I like that. Rick Ewing was like that too a little bit. Rick Ewing

00:34:24.949 - 00:34:45.749

was Catholic. all the shit from the Chang sisters back home. I probably shouldn't. I probably shouldn't be recording this, but Cherie kind of blames Buck and I can. I'll just remember to delete it when I put it on my computer, you know, I mean, Cherie actually

00:34:45.749 - 00:35:15.100

blames the whole scene, what was demanded of her when she was in Watsonville with bringing up her marriage. Anyway, Um. But um Let's get back to um Let's get back to the beginning. The court injunction Came down almost immediately. And I know that was a lot

00:35:15.100 - 00:35:31.629

of the impetus for the initial solidarity day was that. Aurora lived right across the street from the plant, didn't she? Yup. And wasn't she busted on her front porch at one point? Was that early on or, uh, I think so, yeah. Were you there when it

00:35:31.629 - 00:35:50.850

happened? I wasn't there when she got bus. I remember protesting it and a bunch of us being on our porch and kind of to continue to defy it symbolically and stuff. Um Yeah. Did you know that couple that was evicted that was featured in the uh

00:35:50.850 - 00:36:09.419

the John Silver movie? I didn't know them. No, I thought they were with the um TDU. Well, the, the wife, I guess, became a a local 890 organizer from what I understand. I haven't been able to track her down. Um, have you tried talking to Cruz

00:36:09.419 - 00:36:24.929

Gomez at all? Cruz Gomez? No, I, I heard she's back in Maine now. They had some kind of a commemoration for her a few months ago, which unfortunately I didn't know about. Oh, you know, UC Santa Cruz, I bet has a lot of original documents in

00:36:24.929 - 00:36:37.770

their archives. I think people donated a lot of stuff to Santa Cruz. Yeah, I went to, you know, the paper. They've got a big collection at SF State which I went through the stuff that Frank saved. Oh, he donated to the state. Yeah, Frank, Frank had

00:36:37.770 - 00:36:58.909

a whole box of papers and I went through it. Um, some of the stuff I've got here is, is his actually. Um, Frank, you know, saved everything rather like you. Unlike you, he has it all very neatly organized and labeled, you know, yeah, he was he

00:36:58.909 - 00:37:16.840

was a sociologist at Berkeley before he became a, you know, a working class organizer, you know, um. Did you know him very well? No, I have a few discussions with them. We respected each other, but yeah, that's um. Kind of how I felt about him, you

00:37:16.840 - 00:37:33.870

know, I mean, I thought he was off the wall a lot, but I always enjoyed talking to him, you know, he's a thoughtful guy and he's on a principled way, very non-sectarian. You know, he was Reese's co-defendant in the Oakland, you know. Reese Reese's description of

00:37:33.870 - 00:37:55.310

him. He's a very sweet guy. He's just, the problem is he's a Trotskyist and he doesn't know it. Well, yeah, well, here's, here's an example of the kind of stuff that crops up and uh. That's one of yours actually. Oh yeah. There's a bunch of clippings

00:37:55.310 - 00:38:13.110

like that from the register Paharonian. And one thing I thought I might do while I was down there next week is just go to the Arturo, I missed it. I remember Arturo uh twentyro Guerrero, uh, Arturoros Guerrero, yeah, he, um, tell me about him. I think

00:38:13.110 - 00:38:30.739

it was Arturo. I says young blood he. Popped up in the middle of the strike. He wasn't a cannery worker, but he was very dedicated and um he hooked up with this one woman who looked like she must have been 75. He was like 20. And

00:38:30.739 - 00:38:46.110

so they were partners and uh he was living with her and so he was dedicated to her, but he appeared at the picket line with a gun at one point and somehow I don't know if he flashed it or discharged it and but he got busted

00:38:46.110 - 00:39:02.340

and deported. But then he made his way back up. He somehow soon thereafter came back up. But I, I love the guy because he just has such a good heart and he's a really funny guy. Well, I mean, the sense I got was that, you know,

00:39:02.580 - 00:39:20.580

people's immigration status was never an issue during the strike. Well, he called attention to himself with his gun. You know other people who were deported in the course of the strike? No, I don't. I mean, by the mid 80s, Simpson Mazzoli had passed, probably everybody who

00:39:20.580 - 00:39:49.459

was deportable had gotten amnesty at that point, right? You were ever discussed? Did you ever I don't recall it. Yeah, it seemed to me the maker was kind of out of that picture. Mhm. Unsurprisingly. I've got some strikers committee bulletins here, I think that was um.

00:39:52.120 - 00:40:06.719

There The list of the people originally elected, and I understand that the turnover actually on the committee was fairly brisk. But really, you know, Cheri said that it was like you had Gloria and Shavela and Cua and Aurora, and they were the ones who stuck it

00:40:06.719 - 00:40:32.929

out, but the rest sort of came and went and her comment was that it was a totally thankless task, you know, serving on the strikers committee. You know, a tremendous amount of responsibility and grief you know everybody. Let me know when you're ready to talk again.

00:40:35.550 - 00:40:57.110

Yeah, good. You don't have to read all this stuff at the start. Um Here's something I'm really curious about and nobody has been able to answer my questions. That riot on Main Street on February 19th was right after the Shaw settlement. There was a group That

00:40:57.110 - 00:41:16.439

just suddenly started putting out leaflets in there all in Frank Bardake's papers called The United Teamsters Local 912. Um, their initial call. was signed by all the TDU contacts, but it was also signed by Gloria and Chevella and Cuca and so forth. Um, They called for

00:41:16.439 - 00:41:36.260

a week of protests. Originally they organized it before the Shah settlement went down. And then they got blamed when that rioting broke out on Main Street. I you and I might have talked on the phone after that riot took place. Because I was up in Oakland

00:41:36.260 - 00:41:51.080

and I was trying to write a story about it for unity and I was trying to find out what's going on and Uh, I think what you said was, it was totally crazy. Hm, I don't remember. Maybe maybe it wasn't you, maybe it was Manuel I

00:41:51.080 - 00:42:16.139

talk to somebody. No, I don't remember a lot of details about that. Do you remember United Teamsters Local 912? I mean, does that ring a bell with you at all? It's in me. Not really. I kind of vaguely remember it as kind of this temporary formation

00:42:16.139 - 00:42:31.310

of kind of a coalitional thing maybe. Was it something that you know we tried to patch things up with TDU or was it something that TDU did to try to get themselves off the ground, you know, after to recover their lost ground or? Maybe I, I

00:42:31.310 - 00:42:50.300

don't remember. I doubt if we would have done it with them um. Not that we were sectarian per se, but we, this, you know, those people know that you're notable with. Do you remember that flap over Joan Walsh's article in in these times? Not specifically, what

00:42:50.300 - 00:43:15.760

was that about? Well, she went down to Watsonville to cover the strike and wound up devoting half her article to the flap between TDU and the league, which she described as nothing but sectarian. Yeah, uh, and I remember that. Um Three letters were sent. One of

00:43:15.760 - 00:43:31.370

them was signed jointly by Joe and Oscar, you know, I think, you know, and several other people sort of say this is not the story down here, it's the fight between these different groups. Gloria sent a letter. And then I think we got Pedro Noguera and

00:43:31.370 - 00:43:47.080

a couple other people in Berkeley saying, you know, we, we are experienced with the league because they're not sectarian, you know, uh, Nancy Skinner, I think somebody from the Berkeley City council, you know, they, they do good work in anti-apartheid, but. She went down there. Uh,

00:43:47.219 - 00:44:03.419

John Walsh did spend a little time talking to people on picket lines. Uh, and then Joe kind of just spilled his guts to her. It's like all the frustrations he was having about, you know, the aftermath of Solidarity Day. You know, the fact these outsiders came

00:44:03.419 - 00:44:16.439

in from the Bay Area and tried to take over and so on just, you know. Um And then dutifully she went and talked to Modi. He said a lot of stuff to her that he really should not have said. And then of course she went and

00:44:16.439 - 00:44:32.280

talked to Manuel to get the other side of the story, and Manuel was saying, you know, Joe's people never consolidated their base, you know, they weren't in a position to provide any leadership inside the plant, you know, don't blame me for that, uh, but it just

00:44:32.280 - 00:44:49.449

came off as this big left pie fighting the strike, and it was, you know, a tremendously. Counterproductive article, you know, and um. I was struck by the fact that as soon as it came out. There was a lot of flurry, you know, calls back and forth

00:44:49.449 - 00:45:05.659

between Bartiki and Um, you know, Oscar and stuff like that and probably some people at the center too. Trying to say look this is no good when this this this with the public face of the strike it's a spat between TDU and the leagues put on

00:45:05.659 - 00:45:22.209

a show of unity here, right, right. Do you, do you remember any of the discussions going on around there? No, not really. I mean, you could have those discussions with Barticade but not really with Fay or Karen or or Cruz, you know, Cruz never gave an

00:45:22.219 - 00:45:43.620

inch, did she? I mean, she was host to the end. She wanted to be the prima donna thing. The impression I get is that she was Kind of a difficult person. Yeah. How was Um, her rep, um, and she'd been, been launching for years and years,

00:45:43.739 - 00:45:59.590

right? Yeah. Yeah, so she probably felt her turf was being impinged on quite a bit. Frank's portrayal of her that she was someone who was very educated and acculturated who was sort of rediscovering her roots. Yeah, you know I recall that her a hippie, you know,

00:46:09.810 - 00:46:27.610

you know, those are the types who become ulation too because they're trying to recover their identities and stuff. I mean, um I, I also see Cruz, or was that just Karen Fahey? I was Karen Fahey. I don't think Cruz, she was close to Jim Brough and

00:46:27.610 - 00:46:55.129

those guys. But I'm not sure that she was straight up CP. Those people from Santa Cruz were CPP, yeah. Coinsaller Jim Broth and. And of course they Jim Bre was the district chair. I don't have Is he still alive? I don't know. I wasn't frankly going

00:46:55.129 - 00:47:12.610

to go there. Yeah. I mean, the people who are easiest to talk to are the ones who aren't necessarily the most important to talk to if you get my drift. Um Yeah, I, I've had 3 interviews with Serie. Oh. You know, I'm actually it's, it's eye

00:47:12.610 - 00:47:33.939

opening. You know, I, I feel like I understand the guy a lot better now. Um, Chuck Mccae could talk. Joe, Joe spent an entire day talking to me. Uh, you know, Frank is always glad to talk. People who You know, Alex, had he lived, I'm sure

00:47:33.939 - 00:47:46.100

I would have gotten. I mean, I had one great interview with him, uh, and then he went and dug up a whole bunch of papers for me out of the Joint Council 7 files. It's quite revealing. I mean, I'm realizing that guy played a very important

00:47:46.100 - 00:48:04.850

role in strike. It was all behind the scenes. You know, I mean, he kept a low profile. He didn't piss off anybody. Um Probably a lot of the stuff he did was kind of, you know, but he thought the strike was winnable and his job was

00:48:04.850 - 00:48:19.979

to try to get the teamsters in line to make sure the strikers got the support they needed. He thought the shot strike wasn't winnable, so his role there was just to try to do whatever was necessary to get it settled. So you know, it wasn't nothing

00:48:19.979 - 00:48:33.969

democratic about the way he operated, but it was, he was a good organizer in the sense that he looked at the bigger picture and he didn't thrust himself into the picture. You know, he did a lot of strategizing, you know, he tried to cultivate relationships with

00:48:33.969 - 00:48:48.379

everybody, you know, he went back to the Teamster convention, pulled some strings to get the boycott resolution through, quite proud of how he did that. You know, because he had to kind of take advantage of at that point Jackie Presser was just taking over the union

00:48:48.379 - 00:49:06.770

and he was cleaning out the old, you know, Roy Williams's old stooges, so Alex kind of exploited that. You know, The guy who had been the head of the Western Conference of Teamsters before reser took over was a You know, probably a coke snorting buddy of

00:49:06.770 - 00:49:31.399

consults. What was his name? um Anderson. Oh. Andy Anderson, he, you know, They were apparently it was just this incredible negotiating session. Uh, it must have been right before the recertification vote. Um, it was after the Teamster convention. And they showed up to negotiate with consul,

00:49:31.409 - 00:49:49.760

and there's this guy who's the outgoing head of the Western Conference of teamsters sitting across the table from the next toward consul's negotiator. And Alex immediately. Said excuse us, he heard of the whole, you know, negotiating committee out into the hall and said don't say anything

00:49:49.760 - 00:50:08.040

until I give you the go ahead because they're they're trying to trip us up here. You know, um. And um You know, uh The way Anderson portrayed it, this whole recertification thing is ridiculous. This is just internal team strip politics, you know, they're trying to screw

00:50:08.040 - 00:50:25.320

me and blah blah blah. I mean it. But it it it shows you how. What a weird scene it was in that union. You know, and then the guys they sent into monitor, you know, like Eddie Rodrigue. I mean, these are the guys who were beating

00:50:25.320 - 00:50:43.610

up farm workers on the picket line a few years ago in the Salinas Valley, you know, it's like. Yeah. Well, I remember, um, King had married, his kid had married one of Consul's kids or something like that. So they're, they're, you know, literally in bed with

00:50:43.610 - 00:50:59.830

each other. Frank has an interesting take on that. He said, you know, this is a small town. These guys all came from the same social class. Most of the cannery owners, these were like small time entrepreneurs. It was a new industry that started in the 50s.

00:51:00.540 - 00:51:15.090

And it really expanded rapidly and A local guy with enough drive could get something going and you know the people who ran the union were just pretty much people he might have gone to high school where they played football with or whatever, you know, one of

00:51:15.090 - 00:51:33.820

those kinds of things of course that all broke down as the industry got more globalized. But you know, the reason King went off the deep end at the end was because it's like He regarded consul's behavior as a personal betrayal, you know, I. You know, I

00:51:33.820 - 00:51:43.979

took care of this kid. I played ball with him when he was little, you know, I, you know, his father and I were close friends. How could he do this to me and destroy my political career in the union? So he just went off on a

00:51:43.979 - 00:52:01.550

drunken toot, you know. So all of a sudden here's this strike and there's nobody in charge, you know, of the local. I think Joe's mistake or TDU's mistake was thinking, well, OK, the locals not functioning, so we'll just move in and take over the strike, you

00:52:01.550 - 00:52:18.070

know, we'll run the local ourselves, right. And We talked to Frank, you say that was our big mistake. We should have done what Oscar did. We should have called the strikers Committee to be elected right at the beginning. And help them get it started. Instead we

00:52:18.070 - 00:52:37.800

just sort of stepped into the leadership vacuum ourselves. And you know, which I think is pretty astute. Yeah, yeah, Frank is no dope. Yeah, well, he believes in actual work with democracy at least in a theoretical level, so he could be self-reflexive that way. He has

00:52:37.800 - 00:52:50.989

a criticism he makes at the strikers Committee, which I, I haven't. He's the only person I've heard say, he said. Once they had that initial meeting and they elected that, you know, 10 member committee, they didn't have any more mass meetings until after the Shah settlement.

00:52:52.050 - 00:53:08.530

I raised that to Shavelo. I raised it to uh. Oscar that's not true. We met in the right they got excluded from the union hall because of their ultra leftism and attacking the union all the time. Well, they, they got excluded from those meetings. They were

00:53:08.530 - 00:53:25.199

barred because in which we predicted to them, you know, that you're just gonna be ostracize yourself and, uh, not be part of the United Front by virtue of your attacking the teamsters on the same level as the owners, and, uh, so you know, you're hoisting your

00:53:25.199 - 00:53:40.469

own petard. But Um, but yeah, those meetings still took place on a weekly basis, but they're they're in the context of the general Teamsters meeting, and it's fairly early on, yeah, yeah, you know, here's something I, I really want to ask you about, but I think

00:53:40.469 - 00:53:57.219

it's probably. There was a strike fund set up in the opening days of the strike, and actually Guillermina Ramirez was on it. And they were responsible for assessing, you know, the members of the. What was her name again? Guilina? Yeah, I remember her who was, she

00:53:57.219 - 00:54:12.479

was actually interviewed. She was one of the first people interviewing. She was a TDU person who went over to our side, you know, became very, very angry at Joe. Um I really want to interview her, but I have not been able to. She's working for the,

00:54:12.560 - 00:54:28.399

you know, as, as a social worker, you know, for the Santa Cruz County now, but I can't find a home address for her, um, she. No, she was the most outspoken, I think of all the people that Unity interviewed after, you know, the strikers committee was

00:54:28.399 - 00:54:43.530

created. She said, you know, it's like I realized it. You know, we weren't taking any responsibility. We're letting all these people make decisions for us, you know, and they were misleading us, and you know I mean she was bitter, you know, um, there's only somebody who

00:54:43.530 - 00:55:04.399

had worked with TDU before it could be. Yeah, I spoke directly to the national question stuff yeah. Well, Um, One of the people I'm going to talk to when I go down there is an old Fidelia Carra Sosa. Oscar actually ran to her on the street

00:55:04.399 - 00:55:17.699

and said you should talk to this guy Peter Shapiro. He's doing the book, you know, and she was a real TDU diehard. And you know, she said, well, You know, I might need a translator, you know, I'm not that comfortable talking in English as well. I

00:55:17.699 - 00:55:29.010

said, Gloria Battencourt offered to come along with me and translate in the interviews I do, and she said, I'd rather not deal with. We have issues, you know, it's like I said, OK, that's fine. You can find somebody you're more comfortable with. That's great, you know.

00:55:33.290 - 00:55:48.750

But uh Um But she's somebody who stayed loyalty to you, I think I want to get her, you know, and she was like a picket line star and I think she was, she participated in the hunger. She didn't participate in the hunger strike. Uh, because she

00:55:48.750 - 00:56:07.750

had some kind of health problems, you know, diabetes or something like that, so she couldn't do it, but she was there, you know, the whole time. Um, I'm, I'm off on a tangent here, but Anyway, oh, how do you put out a leaflet. Oh, the other

00:56:07.750 - 00:56:26.129

interesting thing real quick is um. I, I think they're FBI and certainly at least one police infiltrator in this whole thing. Uh, which we Discovered in some sort of court documents that they had sent some Chicano cop from Oakland, but then we were never able to

00:56:26.500 - 00:56:46.050

unearth or figure out who that was. But you can imagine there's some surveillance by the FBI. Yeah, let's see what I'm gonna try to find yeah, don't get too hung up on this. Um, I pulled the stuff that I wanted to ask you specific questions about,

00:56:47.360 - 00:57:12.810

um. I wanted to. Ask about this this tension over the strike fund. Because you put out a leaflet very early on, um. That applied there was gonna be some hanky panky around the strike punch. Yeah, here it is. Is the assessment. Richard King put out a

00:57:12.810 - 00:57:35.449

call, uh, for the strike assessment. Um, Here's something you weren't involved in actually that happened in February of '86. Joe was apparently busted in his court. Yeah, you were, you were one of the witnesses to the arrest that he cited. Yeah, um, yeah, see, here's this

00:57:35.449 - 00:58:34.969

is that's um a response to the TDU leaflet. I'm gonna point while you read that stuff. We should probably rewind. Yeah, I mean This is probably what Cruz is doing. Loserma was on the uh on Armando as well yeah. I'm trying to

00:58:34.969 - 00:59:00.189

find the TDU leaflet that um. Implied that there was something shady about that strike fund that might have been what pissed Guermino off actually. I mean if I were in her shoes, I certainly would be pissed off. Yeah. Yeah, they were pretty unprincipled. Here we go.

00:59:03.689 - 00:59:36.199

This is um Right. This is for Frank's papers. This is really on the strike. Oh yeah, that's right. Oh, I didn't know it was just for a few days. That's a TD leaflet. And Mike actually had some comments about that leaflet which I'll share with you

00:59:36.199 - 01:00:30.209

as soon as you finish reading it. Wow. And this is the response. Right. So it's more of an implication rather than. But this is this is before you arrived in Watsonville. You really wouldn't know about this, yeah. Probably if I found Guillermina she

01:00:30.209 - 01:01:02.889

could tell me the whole story. So this is different from the northern. County strikes that they were controlling crews and this is this is a TD leaflet I think because this was to press the. Is that the strikes strike Richard King said we have to elect

01:01:02.889 - 01:01:52.870

a strike and there's a leaflet here. Um Tells people that it's going to be happening. Yeah, here's some coverage in theonian about it. It would have been mid August. I get to show to San Francisco. Yeah. Oh, it's a good photograph. August 17.

01:02:37.080 - 01:03:00.350

Oh, yeah. You know, what was the name of that, uh, he used to write a lot for good reporter, by the way he wrote some good stuff. Yeah, he's very sharp, yeah, um, yeah, I've got all of this stuff

01:03:00.350 - 01:03:28.429

in the home. Hm. Then there was a British guy who was around. He was doing radio News analysis for alternative radio thing it was pretty sharp too. I may have a broadcast you put together for um. Yeah, at the, uh, it's in the San Francisco State

01:03:28.429 - 01:05:18.629

Archives. They gave me a CD, you know, about a 3 minute news report. And then the bathroom. OK. You might check and see how Faye's doing while you're out there. Mm. Mhm. Mm Hi, can I open this? Steve and I were actually doing.

01:05:19.399 - 01:07:36.260

Oh, OK, get back to the bathroom. OK, if you've got first claim on the room, we'll, we're just gonna sit for a second. Mhm Mm. OK. Spectrum ISO just walked in and he had. The magazine that has

01:07:36.260 - 01:07:59.310

something to do with shock doctrine in the educational system in Portland. Are you familiar? Oh yeah, you, you work with some of these people, right, in the labor, so yeah. OK, we're back on the air. So, Um, you don't have information on me. I love the

01:07:59.310 - 01:08:16.990

strike on, but, uh. I just remember there was controversy around it about being shut out of the union hall was the striker's decision or was it Sergio or or what? I think it was Sergio. I mean I know I've got a letter that he sent to

01:08:16.990 - 01:08:32.660

Frank but it's dated June so you're no longer welcome in the 12 you up again I'm gonna call the cops. Yeah, I mean, I doubt if it was surgical by himself. It's probably these other guys like Leon and stuff, but they did allow the strikers to

01:08:32.660 - 01:08:53.689

use the hall to have mass meetings there. Oh yeah. Um, and oftentimes they weren't there, uh, and they didn't understand Spanish anyway. Well, Sergio did. Sergio would be there sometimes, but how did he? How did he feel about the strikers being elected? Well, I don't, Sergio,

01:08:54.169 - 01:09:14.350

I'm not sure, but. Challenged in terms of leadership, was he obstructionist no, you know, he was, he tried to be at least in appearance deferential because my sense is he was kind of tentative and fearful of the rank and file's leadership, um, knowing they had a

01:09:14.350 - 01:09:45.720

mass base. Um You know, he, he wasn't a real Powerhouse assertive personality type of thing you just try to Plug along and His attempts at reasoning with people. But, uh, oftentimes came off a little plaintiff and, you know, puppy dog-ish. From what I recall, Yeah. Um,

01:09:46.899 - 01:10:10.629

so I didn't sense that he put his foot down hard. On, on us very much. Um, he's probably intimidated by Oscar and stuff. A little bit, but um. You know, he was You know, what's those other guys that come in from Arizona, the thugs and suits.

01:10:10.680 - 01:10:35.399

What was his name? John. Um You mentioned one guy's name. He was kind of this quiet. I mentioned John Silver, but these guys that came in just short of doing the trusteeship to try to control the situation, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, John Blake. Well, I, I,

01:10:35.479 - 01:10:55.060

I don't envy Sergio. Um, That could not have been a pleasant situation for him, you know, when those guys came in, and yet it was a sign the international was ready to back up the the strike after a fashion, so. After the strikers Committee was elected.

01:10:56.370 - 01:11:12.660

You had union elections about 5 weeks away. You had a solidarity day rally, I think, organized on October 22nd, and another one first week of November, which I believe I went to. Um, they were all big. And they were all like busloads of people going down

01:11:12.660 - 01:11:33.520

from the Bay Area for them, you know, there were a lot of miss just showing up and stuff. Um, and then people started talking about the election. Mhm. Maybe you could recall some of the discussion that went on, how the people's late was pulled together. I

01:11:33.520 - 01:11:57.720

gathered the results were kind of disappointing. Yeah, but what's your take on that? Well, it's Seemed like a noble preliminary, I mean, initial effort to place more rank and file obviously in union leadership and um See who was willing and able to step up in terms

01:11:57.720 - 01:12:24.049

of Running for public office probably for the first time in their lives and My recollection is that Manuel was pretty key in making overtures to people one on one to see if they're willing to uh Come aboard and. have these discussions with them. The campaign Committee

01:12:24.049 - 01:12:47.680

people Um, so I remember this excitement and there's um, I think it was impossible to assess how it would turn out. Based on what we knew. A lot of the impetus for the in these times stuff, I think what you were talking about before was that

01:12:48.069 - 01:13:07.430

there was a failure to pull together a united opposition slate. Opposition, you know, the old guard, you know, um, the assumption was, I think that Sergio was like King's successor and You know, I don't think people appreciated how much they hated each other's guts at that

01:13:07.430 - 01:13:35.040

point. Right. I I kind of vaguely remember feeling that. Maybe our mass base wasn't as strong as we thought or that strikers are having second thoughts about putting full faith. And authority into our own strikers out of concern and anxiety about levels of experience. Uh, but

01:13:35.040 - 01:13:47.410

I'm not sure. I mean, what do you recall what the vote was? Oh, I mean Gloria did not do well. And then of course Armando was up against going up against Sergio. He backed out at the last minute. Oh, probably was a devastating blow to the

01:13:47.410 - 01:14:04.640

slate, right, right, right, yeah, Armando probably had more respect than Gloria. And Alex told me that he basically talked Armando out of running. I said you guys are both, you and Sergio are both good people. You're both capable, but it will be easier to get the

01:14:04.640 - 01:14:21.390

international union behind the strike if it's Sergio and not you. You know, you're going to be red baited if you win. And Armando had conflicted feelings about it anyway, you know, he kind of wanted to go back to Mexico, so forth. Gloria is still pissed off

01:14:21.390 - 01:14:40.899

at him for doing that. Yeah, I remember being disappointed in Armando. I was a little kind of disappointed in Armando just kind of splitting and leaving the field of battle. You, you can't recall any particular things about that period that that would. Expand on my own

01:14:40.899 - 01:14:58.459

understanding of what I just said of the election campaign, not really, um, I would think there'd be internal stuff around that and certainly all the literature we helped to produce a literature. I've got the flyers. I mean, I know who is who it's just that there

01:14:58.459 - 01:15:28.779

must have been a lot of very serious tactical discussions. About how to approach that. I think it was more like Um, Just trying to lay out the issues. As clearly as possible, but Yeah, I was wondering what TDU's role was in that. I'm sure they discouraged

01:15:28.779 - 01:15:51.350

people too. Well, I mean, Joe Warren. Um He uh Had the name recognition too. And um However pissed off people in the plant might have been in him, he, he still, you know, I'm sure he got a lot of votes. All right. One thing that strikes

01:15:51.350 - 01:16:08.189

me is that getting votes in the union election and being able to run an effective union are two different things. Right. And this was kind of the mistake TDU made. I think they overestimated the amount of influence they had in the plant because They had almost

01:16:08.189 - 01:16:24.189

succeeded in winning the '82 election. You know, it was really just a protest vote because his people were angry at Richard King and they were just fed up with his drinking and his bullying, you know, would vote for anybody, you know, who would run against him.

01:16:26.189 - 01:16:43.589

I wasn't aware they almost won. Oh yeah, I think something like 5% of the vote and you know, he said later I don't know what I would have done if I'd won that election. Yeah, he wasn't prepared to. I mean, I'm sure he would have learned,

01:16:44.299 - 01:16:58.560

you know, he figured it out, but he, he would have had a very, very steep learning curve, you know, he was seeing himself as running as a candidate. He didn't expect to win. And then I think when 85 came around and they had the new election.

01:16:59.810 - 01:17:20.229

Uh, then they thought, well, we almost won last time. They're even more discredited now. We really ought to be able to win. Um, Frank in 5. No, no, um, I don't think he ran against Sergio TDU. He was Armando Sergio and then when Armando backed out,

01:17:20.310 - 01:17:43.060

Sergio ran unopposed, um, Joe ran for business agent, and that was that, um. But you know, the leaflet that TD you put out. Said I've got a copy of it somewhere. The gist of it was We need to elect good, strong, rank and file fighters to

01:17:43.060 - 01:18:00.290

the executive board because to assure that Sergio and Armando did not just follow in the footsteps of Richard King. That was what the leaflet said these guys will be no better than what we had before, and they included in that, so they definitely had the approach

01:18:00.290 - 01:18:18.640

that, you know. There was nothing constructive about the people slate. That was their attitude, and I think it was in the wake of that that Joe went and talked to him these times, so the the the the hostel. The factional feeling, I think was at its

01:18:18.640 - 01:18:37.200

absolute worst then. So let me move up to, um, there was an unemployed uh hearing in early February. Can you tell me something about the organizing going on around that? Uh, see, well, I have been working with Jose Lopez, the attorney and his wife, um, what's

01:18:37.200 - 01:19:12.709

her name? Maria Carle Maria, yeah. And We have been Filing uh petitions of appeal to get striker's benefits. Unemployment benefits on the Successful argument that they're forced out and then some have been fired just prior to the walkout, uh. And so it wasn't just as a

01:19:12.709 - 01:19:29.700

result of The strike and so I was surprised how well we had done. I wasn't even aware of it, but it was saying, oh you know we want about 100 or something or whatever more. I can't remember how many. Benefits, cases of one. But anyway, this

01:19:29.700 - 01:19:51.660

was the large one and um I remember, let's see. Was that We had planned an assembly at the Union Hall, and we're going to march down to the Veterans Hall. And uh that we actually initiated that with Jose. And Osway was, Jose was already at the

01:19:51.660 - 01:20:12.169

Veteran's Hall and um we have picket signs, and I guess technically we're in violation of the injunction about So many feet apart, even though we were all on the sidewalk and um. And so at a certain point, this kind of SWAT truck came barreling in front

01:20:12.169 - 01:20:33.720

of us and blocking. Um, the street and then the, the all these flat or these guys with helmets on block, block, blocked us. And um They're pretty quiet for the most part, but then finally. Some cop in the back, I guess he was their chief, their

01:20:33.720 - 01:20:55.470

sergeant or something said. Uh, who's Joe Fahey? That was the only. And I was a little. Uh, of course, the thing is everybody says I'm Joe Fay. Well, they did actually some people said that he's Joey. And so anyway, Joe kind of came forward like a

01:20:55.470 - 01:21:08.750

dumb dumb idiot, and then they wrestled him to the ground, but it was ironic because Joe wasn't in the leadership of that assembly, it was us and the strikers committee and but they assumed that he was in leadership and that he was the one who was

01:21:08.750 - 01:21:29.140

to get busted. So immediately the strikers um. Dispersed into the side parking lot and and ran against the cops and kind of went around the block towards the veterans hall and the cops were like flu flummox for a second there and jumped back into their truck

01:21:29.140 - 01:21:48.470

and then cut us off in Main Street again and And then how many people were marching at that point. I don't know, it seemed to me about. 200, 300 something like that, yeah, it's a pretty big crowd. And maybe it wasn't that large, but it seemed

01:21:48.470 - 01:22:04.290

pretty large. A lot of people are already at the Veterans Hall. It was a whole veterans hall, um, and, and so then they forced us, they didn't arrest anybody else from what I recall, but, um, they forced people to kind of be 15 ft apart or

01:22:04.290 - 01:22:19.000

whatever the conditions were of the injunction. It was silly and and and walked like to. A side of each other, so it just took forever for us to get across the street and into the veterans hall and then as soon as we got, I got there

01:22:19.000 - 01:22:36.350

I told Jose what happened that we were delayed and that we're being harassed and um and Jose wanted to enter it into the legal record by letting the administrative judge know and the administrative judge seemed to be upset about it, about the police conduct and. Did

01:22:36.350 - 01:22:53.990

anything ever come of those appeals? They never did get unemployment benefits, did they? Not as a whole, I don't think. Yeah, some did. Maria could probably tell she probably has all the files on the still also there Maria Corio as well as there's another white lawyer

01:22:53.990 - 01:23:17.379

young guy I haven't been able to yeah, Irish name. He was a good guy, um, very dedicated. Um He was working on those cases too. Was he on the Washington Bill strike Sport Committee? No. I don't think so. He, no, he's a Watson a legal aid

01:23:17.379 - 01:23:40.939

lawyer who had been there for a while and Um, Jose died right after the strike. No, he had a congenital heart condition that Maria didn't even know about it. We were all shocked and very, you know, bereaved. You know, he was a great guy. He was

01:23:40.939 - 01:24:07.049

totally people's lawyer and So Then after that happened, well, at some point, there was at some point, they're also denying us the right to assemble on the parks. That was fairly early on, yeah, they wanted that shit like that, so. Um Well, moving ahead, um, this

01:24:07.049 - 01:24:37.330

is a police report actually. I don't know how Frank got a hold of this, but it's in the folder at San Francisco State. This is like the police preparations for what turned into the riot on the 19th. Oh Hm. Here

01:24:37.330 - 01:24:53.069

again, it's like. I don't know if the cops were full of it or not, where their information came from or whether it's accurate. But the sense I get is that Job pulled together this new group. To kind of do what TDE was no longer able to

01:24:53.069 - 01:25:04.740

do and try to make it a little broader, a little more inclusive. And he set up a week. Joe doesn't remember any of this, which I, I found interesting, you know, maybe if I showed him the document, I would jog his memory, but he's back in

01:25:04.740 - 01:25:22.089

the Midwest now, um. He doesn't remember what aspect of it. Well, I, I asked him about, you know, what was, it's interesting. I said, what exactly was, you know, United Teamsters Local 912, he said, you know, I, I'm not real clear on what you should do.

01:25:22.109 - 01:25:38.370

He says, I got brought up on charges by the Teamsters after that riot took place. And I was suspended for 2 weeks. He said you should see if they have a Um A record of my hearing that would probably tell you everything you need to know.

01:25:39.290 - 01:25:52.240

So I, I asked Chuck Mac, you know, and he says, yeah, I'll see if they've got it. I'll check it out for you. Um, he says it would be great if they had it. Joe's take on that hearing was that it was just something that Joint

01:25:52.240 - 01:26:07.040

Council 7 had to do to keep the international offices back. They had to go through the motions of disciplining somebody, and they basically gave him a rap on the knuckles that he went 2 weeks without his pay, and that was that. Joe did not consider it

01:26:07.040 - 01:26:27.299

a big deal. Maybe he did at the time, but he doesn't now. Um, But you know, the scuttlebutt on that riot that took place was that they had a rally. The police busted it up. And the things that sort of got out of control and so

01:26:27.299 - 01:26:44.100

people went down to Main Street and started trashing and, you know, Oscar's comment was a bunch of Anglos, young Anglos I'd never seen before. Yeah, is that how you remember it? Uh, I kind of vaguely remember that. It was probably um. Santa Cruz anarchists or something,

01:26:44.370 - 01:26:59.700

I mean it was whatever it was was incredibly stupid. I mean some of those shops where people who supported the strike, yeah, I remember like the Apple restaurant or something like that. Um, yeah. I don't think it was us. It was, yeah, it was probably these

01:26:59.700 - 01:27:17.569

young anarchists. Did they come around a lot? No, they would like pop in for something that was supposed to be big and then they never did any consistent. And then there was another group that the Social Democrats kind of came down, the Catholic. They were working

01:27:17.569 - 01:27:35.540

with Catholic churches and they're being self-righteous young white pastor or something. There was a fair amount of work done in Santa Cruz, it seems like. Yeah, that's why I suspect there's stuff in the library. It would just be a logical place for people to dump their

01:27:35.540 - 01:27:56.439

stuff, but I don't know for a fact. There's also a Latino. And Chicano's Research Center is run by Larry Trujillo, I think his name was. Oh, he, he was a radical academic out of Berkeley, part of the criminology school, but I imagine he was. I can't,

01:27:56.470 - 01:28:14.319

what the hell is his name? He might even still be there. I can't remember. Um, I thought it was. Larry was in Santa Cruz. Yeah, he ran the research center for the Latino stuff out of uh Merrill College, so they have a building there. This guy's

01:28:14.319 - 01:31:13.770

Anglo or no, he's Chicano. He was a doctoral student in criminology, with us when we the criminology. Yeah, I I. Uh, I'm in the Nasi office, Native American Student Union office. It's just, yeah, it's quiet. So just call me. OK, I'll tell him. OK, bye. I

01:31:13.770 - 01:31:31.209

should forewarn you that my kids are being dropped off because he's got to go to a meeting. Oh, you got split. Yeah, well, um, we're just getting warmed up here. Yeah, actually this is, this is helpful. I mean you, you've um. Notwithstanding your your fears about

01:31:31.209 - 01:31:38.879

your memory, you've said some stuff that really I haven't heard from other sources. Um. Yeah, if we