00:00:01.970 - 00:00:29.180

Yeah. Oh, straight, Waterloo straight east of uh Siux City. And the more Where's where's the Des Moines is the southwest of Waterloo and it's the Des Moines southeast of the city. Are you here? Yeah, which ones were the big meat packing centers you talk about Sioux

00:00:29.180 - 00:00:54.720

City Waterloo. Sioux City Sioux City was the largest. Omaha, of course, was in there, but that's in Nebraska. Waterloo had had a plant in Austin, and that's in Minnesota, Austin, Minnesota. There was a lot of packing industries like Omaha, even, even Lincoln, I think, had packing

00:00:54.720 - 00:01:12.629

plants in Lincoln, Nebraska. It's small. Capital was small, a lot smaller than O. Oma is a pretty good size city. Uh, I was trying to think, Cedar Rapids. I, I, I don't think Isle City has it. I don't know if Davenport did or not. That whole

00:01:12.629 - 00:01:43.099

area there. See, Davenport, that that's called. Called the Tri-City, Davenport, Rock Island and Moline. Rockham and Illinois and Moline Illinois and down in port, Iowa. It's called the Tri-Cities, they're all the way right across from one another. Like, like, uh. No, no. In Minnesota Minneapolis, Minneapolis

00:01:43.099 - 00:02:04.010

and Saint Paul, the tri-cities or twin cities. How did you make up a. Sort of a list of what you want to ask me, sort of, uh, also, did you want to go by this? Or we could do some of both, they were holding a. A

00:02:04.010 - 00:02:20.820

meeting in his apartment. I was living with him at the time, but I didn't happen to be home. And I had the gal that I married uh had been back east on vacation, she wrote me some letters, correspondence. I don't know if I told you about

00:02:20.820 - 00:02:36.080

this or not, and a guy by the name of Jack Phillips that lived somewhere else. They connected her and him up together with those letters, and I'm sitting in the courtroom laughing about it. See, I'm the guy, the letters are dressed, dressed to, but They never

00:02:36.080 - 00:02:51.880

did catch on. They tried to insist that he was the guy, the FBI and the police police first and then the FBI got into it. I don't know if the CIA was ever in there or not. I don't know. So like they didn't have their, uh,

00:02:51.910 - 00:03:06.789

stuff buried together. They didn't have anything, a bunch of stupid jerk. Well, oh, we paraded around the police station with 10,000 people, and they're scared shit of us for fear we're gonna break the door down and kill them all. Choking on the. didn't have any guns

00:03:06.789 - 00:03:27.990

or anything, you know, we were attached to, but. We're just showing force, that's all demonstrating. Well, maybe we can kind of go back uh to the, the beginning and kind of work up to, you know, the, the stuff that you're talking about now, oh. One of

00:03:27.990 - 00:03:44.850

the things that I was saying before when I was talking about the fact that it was a small town. Is that, you know, as, as we talk about your, you know, you're growing up and then you're sort of getting, getting into things. That's, as I said,

00:03:44.889 - 00:04:00.789

a whole thing that that. Hasn't been, you know, talked about much or written about much. It's all Chicago in the big cities, all the big cities and. So if, you know, as, as we get into this, if we can get sort of a picture of, you

00:04:00.789 - 00:04:17.450

know, there's the whole. A bunch of people that were active I was about I guess, or 21, 20 I think when I became active. 19 or 20 something. I was living with my dad at the time. And I lived with him until I got married and

00:04:17.450 - 00:04:42.040

I got married when I was 21 in December and I was 22. Emergency somewhere And uh Of course, uh I was a member of the uncommunist league at that time, as a matter of fact, I was an organizer. And when they had had that rage and

00:04:42.040 - 00:04:53.119

uh they were afraid that they were gonna get a hold of me and they didn't want me in jail, so they sent me to Lincoln to organize uh they had a little small group down in Lincoln and they want me to go down there and help

00:04:53.119 - 00:05:09.329

them organize and speak and get the group together, see, so they sent me down there. So I'd be out of town and I didn't get to hear all the trials, see, but uh I got back and heard some of them, some of it. And they just

00:05:09.329 - 00:05:32.779

tried their damage to kick and hell, he was Jack Phillips was at least. 25 years older than my wife. That was funny. Oh yeah, he was at least he's more than that because he was older than my dad, my dad was 28 or 29 years older

00:05:32.779 - 00:05:51.959

than me. And I was 2.5 years older than her. He was all at 30 years or better, 35 maybe older than she was. In those days, the young people didn't marry older people, you know, not that much. I mean 8 or 10 years, yeah, and not

00:05:51.959 - 00:06:17.700

30 years or 35 years. Very unusual. And, and I said Joe uh. I tried to connect Jack up with Joe. He had two names, Jack and Joe. And here with me all the time. But uh there was nothing in the letters, you know, just. We were

00:06:17.700 - 00:06:34.940

going together, engaged to be married, and we got married later on. I think that must have been in. That must have been in 33. It had to be because I got married in December of 33. So that must have been 33 when that happened, and that

00:06:34.940 - 00:06:56.029

raid took place. Of course Roosevelt was in there then he'd just taken office that year, January. He was elected in 32, wasn't he? And took all in 33, I think that's what it was. Warming, yeah, you know, the radio is completely out. Both windows are open.

00:06:56.989 - 00:07:25.920

And it's hot in this place. I cover up with a sheet all at night. No he no. Well, how should we start it then? Well why don't we, why don't we go back, uh, where I was born. Like what, what year were you born in? 19124812,

00:07:26.119 - 00:07:45.500

January or April 8th, 1912 on a ranch, 1400 acre ranch. Of course, I didn't know anything about it at the time, all I know about is what I'm told. But uh it was uh. And they say I can't feel any timeline that's something. Because in Michigan,

00:07:45.540 - 00:08:13.100

I think, or Indiana, there's not a big city for that name. Yeah Was that Las? No, Lamars is where my mother was born and raised. So she came from right around that area. Oh, just 28 miles north of the city, so my dad was a bartender

00:08:13.100 - 00:08:40.479

in a saloon. I damn it, I guess I ain't got nothing. It tells uh. That was the name of the town when I was going, except my birth certificate is her in March. Hm. Was was he born in that neck of the woods? He was raised

00:08:40.479 - 00:08:55.020

I think. Kansas City or somewhere and he at least that's where he was living when I first met him, he came up to Sioux City to help organize and that's how I met him. Yeah, no, no, I was thinking about your father at that point. Oh,

00:08:55.250 - 00:09:13.909

was he from around there also? Uh, my dad was tending bar at the Weidenfeller saloon in Lamars, and he met my mother there. My mother was a maid in the hotel, worked as a maid, living at home. And she met my dad who was attending bar

00:09:13.909 - 00:09:29.669

in a saloon. Those are saloon days when they got whiskey and big barrels and they took the lids off and I used to find my dad told me about this and he used to take, had plugs of tobacco chewing tobacco on the inside of these damn.

00:09:31.030 - 00:09:52.719

Blitz That was part of the aging process in those days of whiskey. See that was uh. That was uh Before Prohibition that was in the good old saloon days. When I went to Denver, they had one bar there, a tavern, yet it still had the old

00:09:52.719 - 00:10:09.880

saloon. Bars God, he had you stand up. He didn't have any stools. He just stood up at the bar and hit you by here, a little short guy, he'd have a hell of a time up there, you know, big high bar, of course the women never

00:10:09.880 - 00:10:32.780

went in the bar saloons in those days, you know, and I met some of these guys in Denver that that had this. It makes me mad I can't. Where I was born did was he a bartender a lot or before before he got married he was

00:10:32.780 - 00:11:01.099

doing that. And uh he never did 10 bar again after that, to my knowledge. I was like 10 bar again. Yeah. He was a sheet metal worker. Plumbing worker did plumbing work? The carpenter work? Furnace man, of course that that's you know the uh. Plumbing, um.

00:11:02.650 - 00:11:28.109

And sheet metal, mostly sheet metal. Uh, in 1926, he helped set up the. where the Eucharistic Congress was held in Chicago, you know, and that's a Catholic Congress, you know, that's held every so many years. Held in Chicago in 26 and he was forming she of

00:11:28.109 - 00:11:47.549

all the sheet metal work. My job Uh, he was such a strong union man that He, uh, he just wouldn't work for if they wouldn't pay any late as he wouldn't want. So the family suffered as a result. My mother had to go to work. I

00:11:47.549 - 00:12:02.969

went to work he, from the time I was 10 years old, I worked on a farm and during summer vacation. When I was 15, I quit school altogether and picked corn that fall when I was 15 in April and quit that fall, went that fall to

00:12:03.390 - 00:12:22.679

pick corn and then I was 16 in April. I just kept. He got a job, I think in a department store then. For $7.5 a week, 6 days a week delivering packages for a department store. I didn't drive, I just. What they call hop and bundles,

00:12:22.729 - 00:12:39.140

they call it. We stood on the outside of the truck. They had running boards and all the truck. Matter of fact, we had an old 1918 Dodge, but one of them was. The best damn truck they had to better ones couldn't stick them at all and

00:12:39.140 - 00:13:04.900

had so much power. And had the reverse shift on it, you know, instead of a standard shift. Hispanic church is low 2 high. This had low 2nd high reverse up here. So his pe Battle Creek, Iowa. That's where I was born Battle Creek, Michigan. You've heard

00:13:04.900 - 00:13:19.369

of that. Yeah, I was born in Battle Creek, Iowa just a white place in the road is all it was. And I was born on this ranch. And while my mother was pregnant with me, she set the house fire. My dad was out in the field

00:13:19.369 - 00:13:38.750

working and he'd seen the blaze, and he had a tin of mules on a, on a spring wagon. And he, he didn't even bother to open the gates. He took those mules right through the fence, getting back, try to put that fire out. My mother had

00:13:38.750 - 00:13:59.969

a sewing machine and and she was pregnant with me and she lifted it outside the window and set it down on the ground. That was her position. She's still going 88 years old and he's been dead since. 55 in December 55. Yeah It sounds like you

00:14:01.260 - 00:14:15.099

Whenever, when you were growing up or whatever, you heard a lot of stories about what happened before you came along when when I was growing up I heard and living with my dad, I heard all the stories about the Wobblies. He was out here in 1898,

00:14:15.130 - 00:14:34.669

199, 1900. He participated in the Cripple Creek massacre and the mines in in Colorado. He was and then the guy that I borrowed his car, and I can't even remember his name. I borrowed his car to get married to go to the council bus to get

00:14:34.669 - 00:15:02.729

married, and he was a dynamite man for the Wabbies for the union. My or whatever. For the union if it's necessary, and for the minor in mine if necessary. They are a radical. Oh yeah. That's only an old Christ the poop. And he let me use

00:15:02.729 - 00:15:17.330

it to fill the Omaha our council bus. We had to get married and wanted to get married in Omaha, but uh we had both of them had to be 21 in Nebraska, see, she was only 18 now we're just 21, so we had to go to

00:15:17.330 - 00:15:37.640

Casillo to get married and Bill Levine and his wife that he married, I told you about now. In Los Angeles, he lives. I saw him at the reunion up here 5550 wedding anniversary. Sha and go over there and eat it. Edith and Lawrence were there in

00:15:37.640 - 00:15:57.679

Lawrenceville, and I named my son after him. There were 3 of us guys and running around together and 3 girls, and then we all married a lot of the girls. And we're all members of the uncommunist League. Some of the families are middle class, some are

00:15:57.679 - 00:16:18.000

poor. I'm gonna work, you know, I'm just there. Now Louischer, his family lived good because he was a speculator to start there, and he wasn't a member of the party. He was just what they called a a sympathizer, and he donated money to the party, see,

00:16:18.710 - 00:16:43.830

and, and he, he was quite a theoretician and he used to hold him and Epstein, who was another swimmer to a theoretician. They used to help uh lead classes and. And Leninism, Marxism, and all that teaching the theories of communism. And they were smart. They, they

00:16:43.830 - 00:17:04.729

wanted it over in Europe, hm, before they came over here. So, where did they come over, it's mostly from Poland and Russia. And of course, uh, they, you know, all of them knew about with him if they didn't know him. First one is in your body.

00:17:05.819 - 00:17:35.589

His teaching and my dad was quite a. Flavor and and living. I, you know, great guy. What you want? But uh catism don't think so. Yeah, I had I didn't have my younger days before I was 19, I didn't have any. Many labor experiences except when

00:17:35.589 - 00:17:53.380

I work working on a farm and you know, when I was 10 years old, I was plowing with a tractor and. Or horses or whatever. And up until I was about about 19 years old, and then, well, I worked in department stores when I was 1617,

00:17:53.459 - 00:18:19.430

18 for two different department stores and. I started After I got married, I started in the meatpacking industry. That's when I got in the labor movement and that's when John L. Lewis started organizing the CIO. The the early jobs that you had. Did, I mean, from

00:18:19.430 - 00:18:35.400

hearing like what your father talked about. And what you'd seen with him and your own, you know, like working in the departments or whatever, did any of it sort of come together or was it just like that was just a job and you never thought of

00:18:35.400 - 00:18:53.439

that, never thought much about it until after I started living with him. That's like I said when I was about 19 and 20. And he got me involved in the unemployed council. People were being kicked out of their homes and we. We organized groups to go

00:18:53.439 - 00:19:10.290

in certain areas where the complaints were and. They had unemployed councils they were called, and I think that it was a national organization. They were all over the country. And uh we had a big hall downtown on 4th Street, which is the main street running east

00:19:10.290 - 00:19:26.050

and west and the City had a hall running down there permanently for holding our meetings and we used to meet there daytime, day after day, you know, and have our meetings at night, certain nights, didn't have them every night, but there's always some kind of a

00:19:26.050 - 00:19:44.109

meeting going on, you know, there's a women's group or. Or the or the regular general meeting or something, you know, the women did a lot of. Cooking, baking and. Uh, at the meetings they serve coffee and cakes and donuts and stuff like that, so I know

00:19:44.109 - 00:20:05.189

they didn't cost much, you know, but still was hard to get, didn't have any money, you know, speak up. The the sympathizers, the people who did have the money and sympathized with our Our policies and what we were doing, they contributed financially to help us out.

00:20:07.290 - 00:20:26.719

And we used to take up collections of the guy you were talking about before, he, he was a speculator at the same time as a sympathetic. He was a speculator. Well, I was just, but something thing he knew, he didn't know anything else. He knew cattle

00:20:26.719 - 00:20:50.810

and livestock, and he, he'd buy up cattle in the yards and, and then resell them, see, and he made, made a lot of money. And back in the 20s, he paid $50,000 or $5000 for a seat on the. Uh, exchange, psychiatric exchange. That was a lot

00:20:50.810 - 00:21:09.199

of money in those days, believe me. What, what did the rest of y'all make of that? He was a speculator and didn't bother us because his, his sympathies were with us. That was his business and he, he wasn't, uh. Uh, the only one he was speculating

00:21:09.199 - 00:21:31.699

on actually were were the. Speculators themselves, he'd buy cattle from from uh from different uh. Uh, livestock, uh. Uh, companies that handled and sold and bought and sold cattle for the farmers. And he'd he'd go in and he'd he'd give a bid on this beef or

00:21:31.699 - 00:21:44.849

that beef and take it and sell it and then he'd come and he'd have his own pen where he'd keep them and then he'd get somebody to come along and be interested in it, he'd maybe make 5 or 10 bucks on a deal or something like

00:21:44.939 - 00:22:01.290

that, you know. So it wasn't like he had a bunch of people working, he didn't have anybody working for him. He didn't have anybody. He did it all himself. He did all the work. But it was his money he invested in the beef that he bought

00:22:01.290 - 00:22:20.060

and and and sold it. But he was called a speculator, did, did, did you go to some of his classes? Oh, his education classes. Oh yeah, that's what I said. I, him and Epstein both, uh, I've attended a lot of classes where they, where they taught

00:22:20.060 - 00:22:43.530

us things about Marxism, Leninism, Marx and Engel, and also Lenin's teachings and, and Lenin's. Organizing and the work that he did in in Russia before they go through the czar and all that. Good Was it all just like a class sort of over there not connected

00:22:43.530 - 00:23:00.640

with what you're doing, or did it really seem like it came together and they came together. It all came together, yeah, and, and us being young Communist League members, you know, we had to, we're supposed to know all these things because we were Communist Party members,

00:23:01.010 - 00:23:23.319

and at that time the Soviet Union was, was the country as far as the Communist Party was concerned, but. China wasn't uh so much then and uh. Although Spain almost did. And uh France was pretty radical, and I'm surprised that they didn't ever get it in

00:23:23.319 - 00:23:47.420

France. Uh the families didn't win over in France, they should have. But now the most religious country in the world as far as Catholic was concerned, is, is probably gonna go communist before any other country. I like for. You know that is. It was good. That

00:23:47.420 - 00:24:06.469

that from what you said before, that was sort of a a conflict between your, your parents that your mother was real. Religious he still is and your father was, he wasn't. See, I was, I was always close to both of my parents and I had, I

00:24:06.469 - 00:24:22.819

attended Catholic schools, but I had to. Not that I wanted to. I, I put in 2 years in a Catholic orphanage, and they be the religion out of me, I'll tell you that. I whispered in the bed in the dormitory, the kid next to me at

00:24:22.819 - 00:24:37.959

night and somebody told the teacher the nun about it, I got the rubber hose over the seat the next morning. My ass was so calloused I didn't even, didn't even bother outlay and laugh at her. Then I'd used the ruler on you and they found out

00:24:37.959 - 00:24:57.560

they weren't getting anywhere, using a rubber hose on you, and what it was was a baby buggy. Tire and there's a wire running through it, you know, boy, that's smart, but after so many weapons you get callous, you know. didn't didn't bother. But they hold your

00:24:57.560 - 00:25:13.239

hand. I've had hit on the fingers and my fingers would swell up like that. Mm. My butt that big because I was a kid, I had a smaller fingers, but a lot of times I jerked my hand away too, and they got it. They were the

00:25:13.239 - 00:25:29.969

meanest people I've ever met in my life. And every all these religious Catholics around me, oh, you shouldn't blame the church for it. I said, why not? The emissary of the church. Representatives of the church. And I said they drove it out of me. Oh, you

00:25:29.969 - 00:25:45.109

shouldn't blame the church. I ain't the church's fault. I said, Well, you tell, they couldn't tell me that after all the two years that I put in up there and everything that I'd seen when when you go to confession and confess your sins. And the priest

00:25:45.109 - 00:26:06.119

takes you out of confessional and slaps the shit out of you, block your ears, you know, right and left. Let's go a little too far. Because he's in there to forgive. He's supposed to be representative of their God. My dad was an atheist. He actually became

00:26:06.119 - 00:26:18.280

an atheist. He, he might have had a little spark of religion, and when he married my mother, he did join the Catholic church to marry her because she wouldn't marry him if he wouldn't have been a Catholic, but he joined the Catholic church, but I don't

00:26:18.280 - 00:26:41.969

think he ever attended church after the day he was married. I don't think he ever did. And the more he, the longer he lived, the more. Let Godparing anyone. We think about death in anybody. And anything went suddenly we had an open house on Christmas Day

00:26:41.969 - 00:26:57.930

in 1955. The 28th he was dead. Matter of fact, the 28th, I came home at 4 o'clock in the afternoon. Because I had to go, I had to get dressed, I had a catering party at 5 o'clock. I was attending a bar and I was a

00:26:57.930 - 00:27:12.939

coffee salesman at the same time, see, I had my coffee truck right with me and then my truck was loaded with coffee, and I never drove my car, I just drove that truck all of time and left my car sit. I had to be this catering

00:27:12.939 - 00:27:29.800

party at 5 and I come home and changed clothes and checked with my dad and he was feeling good and just. Uh, he said he'd been downstairs and we had our bedrooms are upstairs and then we're, he'd been down fixing some toast and. And some tea

00:27:29.800 - 00:27:48.560

and that's. And I think he's Softball a couple of eggs and like you said, and that's the first food you've been able to keep down since Christmas. So, uh, it's feeling really good. I said, well, we saved all the papers and. I said uh they're all

00:27:48.560 - 00:28:08.089

laying down there, why don't you come down in the living room and watch television and. Read the papers or whatever you wanna do, yeah, I think I will. And Spirit Boulevard came like this and 13th Street run like this into Spirit Boulevard. And we lived here

00:28:08.089 - 00:28:24.869

on. 13 something fox, this was 13th this way and it's spirit come at an angle down here. I used to come down to 14th and then come back. Park in front of the house and when we went by here, I saw the lights downstairs were on.

00:28:25.859 - 00:28:40.390

I said, well, Dad is up, and my wife walked in the door and I was locking up the truck and he was laying right in front of the door, rolled off the couch, she was dead. Yeah, the heart attack attack right there. He had a cigarette,

00:28:40.880 - 00:29:02.689

but he didn't like it. You live probably burned the house up. Yeah I got it. Or it might have just smoldered too, but he had a blanket on and when he fell, the blanket he was wrapped in the blanket when he. Let me feel. He covered

00:29:02.689 - 00:29:27.189

himself up when he was laying down. But they had a heart attack and died. We're gone between 4 and 8:30. You went fast It sounds like he was quite influenced by this. Yeah, he was, because see, I lived with him and I attended a lot of

00:29:27.760 - 00:29:51.500

unemployed council meetings with him and through him I met a lot of these. so-called radical people, you know, the communists and the instrumental and more or less. And me meeting the young communist groups and getting involved and so on. But my mother didn't And she is

00:29:51.500 - 00:30:09.810

still opposed to as, as well as all the rest of my family. None of them are At least fit liberally. You were the only one who related to what he was saying at all, the rest of them, well, he was such a poor provider and he

00:30:09.810 - 00:30:25.609

was so wrapped up in in organization and unions that. He shouldn't have ever been married because he wasn't responsible to take care of the family, and my mother had to go to work and she was able to and she had kids that could take care of

00:30:25.609 - 00:30:42.989

the house and she could go out and go to work and I had to go to work. My dad, uh before he got involved in the in the labor movement. Unemployed counsel and the left wing groups and so on. I, uh, he just traveled around the

00:30:42.989 - 00:31:02.130

damn country and messed around, worked wherever he could and sent very little money home, and he's gone sometimes for. 68, 10 months at a time and we can maybe get a card from him once or twice while he was gone, maybe not. And he really wasn't

00:31:02.130 - 00:31:29.089

a responsible person, shouldn't have ever had a family. So, he was a likable person as far as an individual and uh. It was really wrapped up in. Labor movement Was he involved when he was traveling around? No, he didn't really.