00:00:11.940 - 00:00:35.960

Uh, yes, uh, one of my, a younger brother. I think he was 14 months old. Uh, died. That was the 7th. Let's see, 67, yeah, the 7th. I wanna see, wait, I wanna. Let me make sure I'm talking about, yes, I had 3 sisters older and

00:00:35.960 - 00:01:00.060

2 brothers older, yeah, and actually they, they, I was gonna ask you, yeah, it's on now you had 3 sisters older. Yeah, 3 sisters older and 1 younger, and 2 older brothers and 1 younger brother. And we were born in Willimantic, Connecticut. In a textile town

00:01:00.060 - 00:01:30.150

owned by American Thread Company. We lived in a company house. Uh, a tenement with 4 flats. Well, uh, let's, uh, let's get a little back a little bit, uh. I want to know When your parents came over to this country. I really don't have the facts.

00:01:30.600 - 00:01:59.920

I can only assume, well, don't bother assuming that it was around 19. Um 1934. Were they married before they came over? No, they got married in this country. Did they meet here? They met. Yes. And they met through An older sister, my mother's. My mother had

00:01:59.920 - 00:02:31.960

come from Poland. Uh, when her, after her sister had arrived here and had worked and saved money to send back to Poland some money for some passageway to, uh, This country. My mother came from a family of 3 daughters. They were landless peasants. They had would

00:02:31.960 - 00:02:58.690

pass for a hut to live in with a very small piece of ground that they were allowed to grow vegetables on, but they worked for. The pawn, the pawn who was Master the squire. a large area. She came from Galicia. Which was at that time under

00:02:58.690 - 00:03:37.420

the Austro Austria-Hungary. Um, dynasty. And my father came from a family, a large family of 15 children. My mother's father worked as a forester chopping wood somewhere for a pond, that was his job, so he was away from home, uh. All through this seminar. My father's

00:03:37.640 - 00:04:06.180

father. Worked on an estate as a gardener. Uh Just in what capacity, uh, I, I really have no way of knowing other than the fact that they must have had enough of land to have. Fed 14 kids, 1415 children. And I recall. Uh, my father talking

00:04:06.180 - 00:04:32.870

about the, uh, days they would bake, there would be a baking day, and they would bake bread as large as a, uh, one of these small tubs. to feed the family. Uh But both came over because there was no land for them, no prospects for them.

00:04:34.020 - 00:05:00.430

And that was especially true of My mother. My father's family separated when they came to this country and there was, I have no recollection whatsoever of meeting any of my father's relatives. The name was Stavus. was While it is known in in Poland, in a certain

00:05:00.430 - 00:05:24.960

section of Poland, it was, uh, I believe I've only seen one other stop in the telephone call the rest, you know, of my life. Unfortunately, I was not very curious. Wait a minute. Does your father or mother talk about their courtship at all? Not that I

00:05:24.960 - 00:05:46.330

can remember. That's what I started to say that unfortunately I was not too curious about where they came from because Uh, well, they just never talked about it and, uh, that I recall, that doesn't mean they didn't speak about it. But I don't recall it. Um,

00:05:46.670 - 00:06:05.540

but my father would tell, he was a great storyteller and after work. Uh, he would, um, This is usually winter nights, he would tell stories around the kitchen stove. We had one of these big stoves where you could put your feet up, you know, around the

00:06:05.540 - 00:06:34.770

edge, you know, and he was a great storyteller, but he would tell us stories of ghosts and then he would tell us stories and making fun of the ponds, you know, very earthy stuff. Uh, showing the Weaknesses and fallacies, you know. So I remember his stories,

00:06:34.920 - 00:07:00.460

but Nothing in detail remains with me, but essentially I was not terribly interested. I didn't really didn't identify. You know, uh, myself as a pole. My uh Orientation and that's what I got from the rest of the children was to try to speak English as well

00:07:00.460 - 00:07:19.480

and as quickly as possible. So what we spoke in at home was a mix of Polish and English. Kids would speak English to each other and Polish to the parents. I see. Um, a couple of my sisters had gone to a Polish school because there was

00:07:19.480 - 00:07:46.810

a Polish community in this town, all romantic. The town, the company towns like uh Romantic I think we're just uh um I sort of a model that other company towns had where They would be um Hiring, uh, you know, uh, Anglo-Saxons for supervisory jobs and they

00:07:46.810 - 00:08:09.110

would get uh Main Street, then the streets after that would be then uh uh the other English speaking um. Groups which might be Irish, and then came the, this is a romantic, next came the French Canadians and then the Poles, and then across a small ravine

00:08:09.110 - 00:08:34.520

were the Russians and essentially that's the way they graded us, you know, because each street which contained that ethnic group. was a little different than the one before, but they were always being reduced down like the French Canadians who their backyard was our front yard. They

00:08:34.680 - 00:08:54.290

lived in And uh and flats, but they were just 2 to a house. We lived in, in a, in a tenement that had 4. Uh, flats to it. There was no, uh, gas or electric. The toilet was down in the basement and also a place for

00:08:54.290 - 00:09:21.870

the cold bin. And, uh, The basement itself was the dirt. So when you were going to the bathroom, the toilet. You know, we had no bedroom slippers or anything like that. We ran down all all throughout the year in our bare feet. It was damn cold

00:09:21.890 - 00:09:41.750

and then used to go down there also to get coal, pick up coal and bring up coal to heat the house. Um, what were the sleeping arrangements? Sleeping arrangements were Uh, a large, well, the, the flat itself, uh, in the front they had, of course, the

00:09:41.750 - 00:10:03.670

front room, which was a large room and which was stuffed with whatever furniture you could afford. And which you did not use at all except when company came. And next to that was the bedroom for the parents, and that faced the front. Then in the back

00:10:03.670 - 00:10:27.090

was a large kitchen with a pantry. And then one bedroom. And then upstairs 2 on the 3rd floor. were attic rooms which were split on, you know, on one side for our family and the other side of the attic was for the family on the second

00:10:27.090 - 00:10:52.220

floor. And uh they had 2 bedrooms up there. And uh also as part of the uh Living arrangement was a shed in the back and in the shed were the wood. Well, uh, how many, how did you sleep? Well, since I was, uh, one of the

00:10:52.220 - 00:11:16.290

3 youngest. Uh, we slept in one bed down near the kitchen, right next door to the kitchen. And my 3 sisters slept upstairs, in one of the bedrooms and the other bedroom with my 2 brothers. Mhm So there were 3 of us sharing a bed. Uh,

00:11:16.760 - 00:11:38.550

where were you born? I mean, in, in a hospital, at home? Well, I always thought I was born in the house like everybody else was, but when I Applied for, Uh, birth certificate. Not too long ago, about 5 years ago, I found out that I was

00:11:38.550 - 00:12:03.220

born in Windham. W I N D H A N Wyndham, Connecticut. And I would imagine I must have been born in a hospital. Mhm Since, uh, If I had been born a romantic, they wouldn't have said romantic. I think they had they never did they ever

00:12:03.220 - 00:12:29.000

discuss? No, no, no. How were you named? Well, there was this, the French Canadians live across the way. And by then there were already 3 girls and I think they allowed the girls to pick the the name. Uh, well, of course, my mother, you know. was

00:12:29.000 - 00:12:57.190

the boss, but And they liked the name Loretta. Now my, there is no equivalent of Loretta. In Polish, so the birth certificate it said Lydia, although it was spelled out in Polish Lucadia, which is the closest. Uh, to But I was always Loretta. Which was sort

00:12:57.190 - 00:13:26.440

of strange because usually they were, you know, sisters who had named Stefania, Mihalina. Elena You know, and which they promptly changed when they went to school to Stella, Molly, and Helen. And why did they do that? Well, they didn't want to have a name that was

00:13:26.460 - 00:13:51.140

different than the English names, you know, the American name. There was, uh, uh, we went to parochial school, It was a parish And it was a mix of Polish and Irish, the Irish were more or less professionals, strange to say, but uh They were, you know,

00:13:51.270 - 00:14:11.290

they, we had Irish in there and they were not discriminated against that I know of as the Irish were other places. Uh, what really, what religion, what the Catholic, no, but not religion, what racial. Jenner was the priest I mean, was he, was he Irish or

00:14:11.290 - 00:14:33.500

Polish or what? A mix, mix. There was one German, you know, he spoke with a German accent. He was a horrible man, uh. They were, they were English speaking, you know, they must have been Irish because usually the American. We're not At least not in the

00:14:33.500 - 00:14:51.650

company town that I recall they were. We didn't have English as such, you know, background English, but Uh, they were English speaking, you know. And uh we also had, I think, a Polish priest, you know, but you know, they saw, and of course there was a

00:14:51.650 - 00:15:20.630

nun, a convent, and the teachers taught in the school. Right there I began to feel the class differences. Because we were The ethnic groups were seated in the back. And all the You know, daughters of and sons of doctors and Storekeepers and whatnot was sitting up

00:15:20.630 - 00:15:38.520

in front. And of course everywhere there were children always had some children had to stay after school. And erase the blackboards and clean up, you know, that we were the janitors. And literally that's what they called on us to do. Now they would take turns, you

00:15:38.520 - 00:16:07.230

know, calling, but I remember I had some real dirty job and I was full of chalk, you know, smells and and the hair and everything else. And the nun rewarded me with a cookie. And we had a marshmallow, colored marshmallow top on it. And I, uh,

00:16:07.510 - 00:16:25.520

looked at that cookie and I figured I sure it was one of the cookies that one of those, uh, what we call rich kids brought over and I was getting it. And I did not eat the cookie. I took it out. I brought it home, but

00:16:25.520 - 00:16:53.380

I did not eat the cookie. Uh Uh, how would you describe your mother? Well, my first recollection of my mother is not a pleasant one. Uh, she, uh, Well, Yeah, that's right. I, I, I, I do have memories of, of going to the, uh, close to

00:16:53.380 - 00:17:14.540

the factory gates. In the wintertime, When it was dark and waiting with my sisters and brothers for my parents to come out of the factory and walk them home. And uh whether all of us was there or just uh Someone stayed back home to, you know,

00:17:14.770 - 00:17:38.200

Prepare supper. I'm not quite sure, but I do recall that. Uh But I cannot place my mother when she was working. I mean, I, I see nothing in, in my memory, you know, uh. But she got quite heavy. She was a very beautiful woman when she

00:17:38.200 - 00:18:01.840

was young, which I only realized many years later when I got a picture of a wedding picture of her and my father. Uh, she was quite heavy and she was losing her teeth. Uh She had her body was so distorted with, you know. 9 kids And

00:18:01.840 - 00:18:28.460

uh she also suffered from tumors which I didn't know about and neither did she for some time, so that helped to blow her up. But I remember her as A cranky woman Very demanding She, uh, could be sweet at times. Uh, she had a lovely voice.

00:18:29.260 - 00:18:53.810

And she used to sing And there were times when we all gathered around the stove, around the stoop, we would ask her to sing. And uh because it was, you know, very, very sweet voice. But in the main she was a harassed woman. And not happy

00:18:53.810 - 00:19:23.970

about all the children. And uh I gathered that they practiced withdrawal. But that the priest would Ask, uh, regularly, um, When was the last child born? And they kept pretty close touch with what the hell was going on in the family and uh if there were

00:19:23.970 - 00:19:42.870

4 or 5 years, then they would say, you know, what are you doing, you know, God. You know, want you to Bring children into this earth. I suppose he told her it was a sin. I'm not, I don't really know, but I, I do know that

00:19:43.030 - 00:20:06.850

uh. When I was born, it was a result of some pressure by a priest because When I was old enough to and and rebelling. Uh, she is refusing to go to church, so she accused, well she, yeah, accused me of um of being ungrateful because if

00:20:06.850 - 00:20:29.250

it wasn't for Those days I was too young to figure, well, what the hell were you doing with the priest. What about your father? Well, he was a hardworking man. He really was. I remember him being away from home when he was working on the railroad.

00:20:29.940 - 00:20:50.190

Oh, he didn't always work in the mill. No, he, he worked in the railroad. Uh, well, for example, in 22, there was a severe depression. And the factories were shut down. But they were building, uh, you know, and replacing the railroad ties, you know, and that's

00:20:50.190 - 00:21:16.070

what he was doing, so, uh. He would come home after, you know, a week's work. And he would bring back with him a bushel bushel sack of apples or potatoes. Especially those two because they would pick them, you know. Uh, when the farmer left them lying

00:21:16.070 - 00:21:34.270

around, you know, they, so that way, so those were sort of pleasant times, uh, to remember because then we would bake the potatoes and then have baked potato, uh, we would all sit around the stove waiting for the potatoes to bake and my father would tell

00:21:34.270 - 00:22:03.570

his story. He was a great, great storyteller. Yeah, I could see what he was talking about. I could see the forest, I could see the pond, you know, uh, and the wolves, especially stories about wolves in in in Poland. Uh My mother would sometimes mention about

00:22:03.570 - 00:22:24.470

the time that she went into what is called sous bar. That was when a child was A girl I guess was 9 years old or so, then she went to Do for, you know, the term do for, uh, you know, the ponds in the pond's kitchen,

00:22:24.600 - 00:22:42.870

you know, either feed the chickens or clean the chicken coop out or Uh, more help wash the clothes or wash the clothes, whatever, you know, because there were some, uh, who were used in the house and some who were used for farm work, but that was

00:22:42.870 - 00:23:03.520

uh That way there was one less mouth to feed. So I think my I think my mother must have left Poland when she was 15. Something like that, and the same thing with my father. Sorry now, of course, and I have been for some time that

00:23:03.520 - 00:23:26.530

I Never found out and when I tried to find out from my sisters. Uh, the one who could have told me more. Uh, had died, so it's, I've asked other sisters of mine who were still living in They cannot recall much of that. Uh, because we

00:23:26.530 - 00:23:51.350

were orientated children. For the Different kind of a life than my folks led and of course we were always constantly reminded of what little they had. And what they had to do when they were so there's no question about the fact that Um We were eating

00:23:52.860 - 00:24:15.110

It was, uh, you know, uh, There was very little variety, but we were eating. I don't think that we ever went hungry. The hungry days came later when I was on my own. Uh, how, uh, How did they treat your children, uh, otherwise, let me explain

00:24:15.110 - 00:24:36.590

it this way. Was there a favorite child? Oh yes, yes, my mother was a great one for her favoritism. Uh, my, I had my, the oldest child was a brother. Tony, he was very handsome. He, he, he didn't look like anyone in the family. It was

00:24:36.590 - 00:25:03.510

almost like a throwback to the writer the first night. I'm not saying that it was so, but it most likely was because he just looked different. Uh Everything about him and he was talented also. Now, uh, we lived in Willimantic. I remember. I, well, since I

00:25:03.510 - 00:25:32.220

was going to the parochial school, I should go back to that. Uh I, uh, Remember before going to Troker school, the war ended World War One and a neighbor of ours Who had children of his own, not that many. He was a different kind of man.

00:25:32.340 - 00:25:50.460

It's hard to explain why I felt he was different. Uh, but he would take the time to talk to the children and listen to what the children said, and I, and he would, the children in the neighborhood would sort of come when he was home. And

00:25:50.460 - 00:26:18.180

uh he uh When World War One ended, I remember that he was dressed up like the Kaiser when they had this Liberty parade. I'll never forget it, you know, but he was very Charismatic figure. He was tall, he was handsome, uh, he was slender, and he,

00:26:18.200 - 00:26:44.950

um, well he just vibrated, you know, radiant. And I was obviously very taken by him. And a couple of years later, I, uh Went to get, I was, well, I was in the parochial school, I was in the 2nd grade or so, and they started to

00:26:44.950 - 00:27:15.720

give communion, you know, instructions in communion at an earlier age. I think it was 7 instead of 8 or something like that. 6.5 or so, I don't remember. But uh I got some very gruesome. Stories from the nuns about How one would be punished if one

00:27:15.720 - 00:27:35.240

doubted there was a God and how one would be punished if one did not consider the sacrament as the most holy thing that one could have, that one had to be worthy of it, and then it would tell very, very horrendous stories about what happened to

00:27:35.240 - 00:27:57.960

little girls who had buried the sacrament instead of. Swallowing it, buried it. And uh, you know, and then some boys came out of the ground and they gathered all the children around and they stopped because they knew that Push knew that there was something there, you

00:27:57.960 - 00:28:17.200

know, that was a sacrilege, and they dug up and they found this little box and then they asked the child to come forward who had, uh, you know. Buried the sacrament there and then they ran the children through the fire. You know, and she got burnt.

00:28:19.230 - 00:28:38.980

Now I mean the others didn't, but she did, yeah, yeah, so anyway it was that was the way they prepared, you know, and there were other stories, so I may very well have been telling this man. What they were, what kind of instruction they were given

00:28:38.980 - 00:29:00.880

us, so Anyway, here I was my first day. I was going into For the rite of communion and you get dressed all in white with a little, little crown of flowers on your head and It was an early mass and someone knocked on the door and

00:29:00.880 - 00:29:16.720

there was this neighbor of ours, and he put in my hands, he asked to see me. And, and he saw, you know, what I looked like, and he was telling me how pretty I looked, and then he said, and I've got this for you. When you

00:29:16.720 - 00:29:36.960

come back, I want you to play with it, and it was a doll. It was a beautiful doll about 12-13 inches long with eyes that opened. Oh dear, and I had never gotten a gift in my entire life up to then. And I could not understand.

00:29:37.090 - 00:29:55.800

I was just overwhelmed with the gift and, and, you know, the giving itself, but of course I didn't know why he gave. I don't know what my parents thought about it, you know, but only looking backwards a number of years later that I realized that here

00:29:55.800 - 00:30:14.950

they were trying, they had filled me full of horror. Mhm And that I was going to have to assume responsibilities for my sins, which meant that if I missed mass and I was to die before I could confess it, I would go to hell, you know,

00:30:15.410 - 00:30:33.500

and, uh, you know, things of that sort. In other words, to tie you so to the church. That that was the thing to do. That was the way you had to live in order to save yourself from going to hell and you know, fire with snakes

00:30:33.500 - 00:30:55.070

and the whole goddamn bit that they were talking about. And that that was his way of trying to bring me back to childhood. Don't be there, uh, speaking of punishment, uh, what, uh, moral values did your parents teach you? I mean, did they, did they depend

00:30:55.090 - 00:31:11.720

on the church to do that for you? Oh, no, they, they, uh, you had to obey. And if you did not obey, you know, or you weren't fast enough, then you got the whip. The whip always hung in this prominent spot. It was a strap, not

00:31:11.720 - 00:31:25.730

a whip. It was a razor strap, you know, and when the kid didn't show up at the house when he was supposed to. You know, uh,