00:00:02.059 - 00:00:23.459

And uh first interview with Mickey Lima on December 11, 1987. OK, Mickey, do you, do you want to start, uh, talking about, yeah, one of the features of the lumber industry is that, uh, it developed quite a number of company towns. There are only two industries

00:00:23.459 - 00:00:40.159

that I know of that, uh, that related to company towns. One is the mining industry, the other was a lumber industry, and the reasons for it is that many of their operations were in isolated areas. And uh when I speak about a company town, I mean

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that uh when you entered the town everything was company and uh this uh this outfit uh catered to married people and um and the married people lived in company company houses and uh paid rent and had to buy everything from the company store. And not only

00:01:03.889 - 00:01:20.889

were we working for very low wages, but, uh, the family people I found out later never saw a dime in money. They, uh, by the time they got through buying their groceries and uh taking care of their rent and their, uh, and, uh, and, uh, clothes

00:01:20.889 - 00:01:37.910

for the youngsters and so forth, all of which are bought to the company store, it was taken out of the wages each month so that, uh, so that actually they had a complete, uh. Complete exploitation as far as the work was concerned. I was a single

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guy and they had uh they had uh bunk houses for the single guys. There was small cabins or there was 44 bunks, one in each corner in a potbelage stove in the middle of the room. And uh 8 to a cabins that 4 bunks was that

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2 men to a bunk up and down and uh no there were just 44 cots in each 1 and 1 in each corner and then a pot-bellied stove in the middle for heat and uh then a wash basin outside and they had uh outhouses for that

00:02:12.369 - 00:02:33.500

covered, you know, 3 or 4 of the uh 3 or 4 of the um of the uh uh bunk houses. And then we ate up at a uh in a uh uh. Uh, uh, was we were fed through a, uh. The central dining room up on

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the side of the hill and the meals were quite good. They served, uh, they served uh uh in uh uh platters, you know, and you took whatever you wanted it as much as you wanted, and, uh, and it turned out at that time the cook was

00:02:49.440 - 00:03:07.610

quite a good cook, so forth, but, uh, 1924 people they really exploited, you know, and we worked, um, 10 hours a day, 6 days a week. And um and so that uh I was told to go to work at 10 to 7 in the morning and

00:03:07.610 - 00:03:22.630

10 to 1 so that on Saturdays was our short day we worked 8 hours and 20 minutes on Saturday, that was the short day. And when I got to work at 10 to 7, everybody was working. I got there at 10:45 to 10 to 1 and

00:03:22.630 - 00:03:39.110

everybody was working. So I asked one of the brothers on the line and so they explained that, uh, they explained that, um, the boss liked to have us there and uh and everything moving so that by the time the whistle blew everything was running full blast.

00:03:39.529 - 00:03:57.699

So we were actually working, uh, a little overtime if we're not being paid for it. So I explained to these two young guys who were friendly. The 3rd or the 4th guy, uh, sort of stayed off by himself. I explained to them that, um, that, uh,

00:03:57.710 - 00:04:13.270

we were working for 8 hours with each week we were working, um, uh, 2 hours for which we were not being paid, so they said we got news for you, kid, uh. Uh, we're working more hours than that for what we're not being paid. I said,

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oh no, it's just 2 hours, 10 minutes, uh, twice a day. That's 20 minutes a day, 6 days that's 120 minutes. That's, uh, only 2 hours, and they said no, as I said we work more hours than that, uh, without being paid. So they began to

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explain to me the um the um uh uh uh Marxist theory idea of uh surplus value. That you work and uh and add to the value of the products and now that it's the company makes a profit and where we were working we were working for

00:04:47.540 - 00:05:02.970

3540 cents an hour. We got 40 cents an hour on the uh on the sorting table. And uh but uh but many of the workers, the workers that worked in the out in the yard and so forth, they got 35 cents an hour they were taken

00:05:02.970 - 00:05:22.540

2 hours and more than 2 hours a day without being paid. I mean 2 hours a week without being paid OK sorry. Is the sorting table the green chain? Yeah, that's the green chain, yes, and this was, this was in 1924, you say 1924 Crenell I

00:05:22.540 - 00:05:40.269

was 17 years old and this was a company town in Cornell or Cornell, yeah, was the name of the town. I don't think it even exists anymore because the only thing was there was the, uh, the school was just outside of the company town. And, uh,

00:05:40.489 - 00:05:57.529

but everything in the town was company. How many, how many men worked there? Well, the mills then were quite small compared to what they are now. We turned out, we turned out about 100,000 110,000 ft a day, and the mills now those big mills like Pacific

00:05:57.529 - 00:06:13.420

Lumber and Hammer, they'll turn out a million or 1.5 ft a day. And of course there are many more meals in 20 men in the middle or 0. Well, we had on the sorting tables there were 4 tables and uh there were, there were about 4

00:06:13.420 - 00:06:32.160

workers on each table and uh. In the mill itself there was probably about 35 or about 50 that worked in the mill altogether. Then there were workers out in the yard and then of course the workers up in the woods they had they had a logging

00:06:32.160 - 00:06:49.380

operation. They had a logging operation and they hauled their logs down and and uh on a uh the small railroad outfit and um. And they came to a place where the rails were lean, that is the uh the the the road was leaned to one side

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and they pulled the blocks out and the logs slid down into the pond and then the pond workers worked the logs up into the mill where they were fed up into the mill 11 after another as they were sawed. Well, these two, workers, they not only

00:07:06.769 - 00:07:26.609

explained surplus value to me, but they also organized a job action that took place, uh, in, in the mill itself where the, uh, where the logs first go in they would cut a slice of, uh, of the log and sometimes it would be different thickness depending

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on the, uh, on the character of the wood that was involved and, uh. And uh they would either 1 inch thick or 2 inches thick or 4 inches thick or 6 and uh and uh and then uh then the slab would fall down and would go

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into a uh another uh where a series of saws would come up and saw them at the at the correct width. Then they would go to where they were cut off on links, uh, uh, uh, some of the some of the timbers would be as long

00:08:00.489 - 00:08:20.089

as as the as the logs, but, uh, 20 ft long, but, uh, but the others would be cut to trim off the dead end or what have you, and, uh, then, then these uh, these were graded then. uh, uh, by graders they, they would be good

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number the clear lumber and sap number 1 number 2, and then refuse with a long mark like that and then then they would be come out yeah that was a refuse mark and the clear was crossed and then the S for sap and uh. And then

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number 1 and number 2, so those are the four grades and the 5 was refuse, uh, which could be, uh, uh, would be, uh, uh, either used or not used, but, uh, but uh those are the different grades that, uh, and then they would, uh, cut

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on different links too depending on this part of the log that it would cut from and uh so that uh. So that they would then another chain would take it down to where it would go into a series of rollers and the rollers would bring the

00:09:17.950 - 00:09:36.979

lumber down onto the sorting tables and this mill instead of having one long sorting table, had 4. And uh my job there was, uh, the, the, I realized how I got my job after a while because, uh, two of the units were railroad ties. railroad ties

00:09:36.979 - 00:09:52.419

are 8 ft long and what 6 by 8 inches, and they're made out of the most solid redwood and they were very heavy and they were too short to uh, when you pull lumber off the sorting table, uh, you would start to lumber down and then,

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uh, then keep it moving. And uh it would go on to the pile and uh and uh and uh and so you didn't have to lift it. You were, you were maneuvering it all the way, but ties were too short for that. You had to pick

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them up and buck them and put them on the pile. So the bucking ties is extremely difficult and the ties would come when they get a piece of lumber with a solid redwood, they would maybe come out uh 10 or 15 or 20 at a time

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and They had to be pulled off that first table because if they went to the second table they were too short to they would fall between the rollers and then they would not move, in other words, and the rest of the lumber would pile up on

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top and they would have to stop the mill and and untangle it and so forth, so they had to be pulled off the table. And so it was an extremely difficult job and uh so that uh exhausting so that in that case the experience I had

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working with these two young wobblies and because of the nature of the job I had, you say you say they were young wobblies yeah they were under 30 or something. Yeah, they were, they, well they were both about. in their late twenties, that was 1924. That

00:11:11.914 - 00:11:30.815

was about the last year the Wobblies were active. Where would they, would they have gotten their wobbly? Well, they, they had worked in different mills and usually they would get caught up on and they would get fired out of the Northwest, and, uh, and so they

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would change their names and go somewhere else and get a job. Do you remember their names? No, I don't remember their names, no. And um well, what happened then was uh one of the workers working uh uh where the logs where the slabs were cut and

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then with the where the slabs went into a series of saws the uh the uh they had a roller that came down and held a slab and turned it and moved it into the forced it into the saws because sometimes a number of saws would hit

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it at the same time. And the uh and the mechanism stopped working and the slab came back and hit her brother and uh really mangled the hell out of him, killed him as a matter of fact, and so he was carried out of the mill and

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um and uh and uh so these wobblies uh were agitating among the workers on the on the sorting table. They both worked on the sorting table, different places from where I was working and um. But then what happened was that uh the uh the uh state

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then had a law that uh if you had a death through where it was the fault of the employer that they had to pay $5000 compensation and uh what they did was the woman who was the wife of this guy, they gave, paid her the the

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funeral expenses, paid up her bills at the store. And then told her she had to move and altogether they'd only, uh, taken care of her maybe a few $100 of what she had coming and uh so they uh, they refused to pay her the compensation and,

00:13:14.080 - 00:13:31.229

uh, so that, uh, they agitated among the workers in about this uh this sister of this who was, uh, had 2 or 3 kids, had no money and no way to move, no place to go or what have you. So that uh they then um uh

00:13:31.239 - 00:13:49.419

uh uh they put another person, another worker on that same job but this brother had been killed and the mechanism still wasn't completely fixed so that the slab came back and it hit him too but he happened to be uh in the butt end of the

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log where there's they had to make an undercut for the tree and uh so that uh. So that instead of killing killing him, it shook him up very badly and uh and he began to uh he got very frightened and screamed and yelled and so forth

00:14:07.659 - 00:14:26.969

and uh and uh before he went down and then they carried him out of the mill so uh the two wobblies then agitated the workers to uh about the brother who had been killed that she still didn't receive her compensation from the company. So they organized

00:14:26.969 - 00:14:42.020

in and got us to all walk out of the mill together and we walked up to the company store where they had the office of the company and uh and uh there was a, uh, Greek guy that worked next to me on the on the on

00:14:42.020 - 00:15:01.570

the sorting table, and he, um, spoke to the company guy that came out. We all went walked into the store and up to this counter where the where the officers were behind there. And uh the uh Greek guy uh spoke broken English and uh tried to

00:15:01.570 - 00:15:17.460

explain to this, uh, manager that came out that uh he was there to talk to them about the woman's compensation, and he made a wisecrack to the extent that, uh, so what are you trying to do, get the combination of our safe, you're trying to take

00:15:17.460 - 00:15:33.239

our money, or what do you have in mind? And I reached across and grabbed this guy and jerked him up against the counter and I said he's asking about the woman's compensation that you haven't paid her compensation, the brother that was killed there were a few

00:15:33.239 - 00:15:49.020

days you were 17 years old and you put your hands on him, yeah, and so anyway, uh, out of the back room then came a well dressed guy and, uh, and, uh, he, uh he said wanted to know what the problem was and we told him

00:15:49.020 - 00:16:08.239

that, uh. That it was this woman hadn't been paid her compensation, so he said very loudly to this manager, I told you to pay, pay her her compensation, and you do it right away. So they had to pay this woman over over $4000 in order to

00:16:08.239 - 00:16:26.830

because the brother had been killed and so that was the first, uh. Uh, let me stop you for a moment again if you don't mind. Uh, what, let me, what, what was there in your upbringing before you were 17 that that that made you receptive? I

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mean, I bet you lots of guys didn't, didn't listen to the lies or if they did, that was maybe the only thing they ever mixed up uh uh period before then and also after them for a few years. Uh, because, uh, my father had gone to

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work in a lumber mill, uh, and down in Mendocino County where I was born, and, um, and, uh, you saw town doesn't even exist now, but Robert guy by the name of Robert Dollar, who later became a shipping outfit, uh, owner, uh, uh, had a mill

00:17:01.440 - 00:17:20.880

there, Redwood mill. My father worked in the woods there. And, uh, and uh, but I was, uh, born and raised there and uh and uh and then uh we moved from there to a ranch at Piercy to below Garberville and, uh, lived there and then my

00:17:20.880 - 00:17:38.660

father, uh. Began to get ill. He had uh diabetes and, uh, he had no cure for it then we moved up to uh Arcata and uh there was a working class hotel on the corner of the Union Hotel, the corner of the plaza then, and he

00:17:38.660 - 00:17:54.280

took over that hotel and uh so I worked with him in in the in the. The, uh, in the, in the hotel, matter of fact, I worked in the bar room when I was just a kid. Was that up on the, was that up on the

00:17:54.280 - 00:18:12.900

um. The north, um, east corner of the plaza. No, that was not that. That was the that was the first class hotel in. This was on the, uh, would be on the south, uh, on the south side of the plaza. And uh and it was toward

00:18:12.900 - 00:18:31.819

the uh uh toward the western part of the south side of the plaza then the Union Hotel. It probably long since has been disappeared. It was a small working class type of hotel where there was uh workers that single workers that stayed there that had boarding

00:18:31.819 - 00:18:53.800

room and the uh uh my father had to cook and uh serve meals and stuff like that. Well then I, uh. So then Uh, then my father died and, uh, my brothers went to work. They were teamsters, all three brothers were teamsters and, uh, and, um,

00:18:53.839 - 00:19:14.050

and, uh, so then, um, uh, uh, I had, I got a part-time jobs, started to work, uh, uh, matter of fact, I worked in one of the first service stations that ever existed in Arcade worked part time and, uh, and, uh. I got a job on

00:19:14.050 - 00:19:34.439

a. Butcher, uh, uh, well, I worked on Saturdays, uh, they, uh, in those days around around the plaza there were all different stores. If you wanted the meat, you went to a butcher shop. If you wanted the groceries, uh, if you wanted the fruit and vegetables,

00:19:34.479 - 00:19:53.650

you went to the vegetable store. If you wanted, uh, clothing, you went to the clothing store. And so there were, uh, stores all around the plaza and, uh, uh, small stores and, uh, and, uh, so that I got a job, um. With the butcher shop, uh,

00:19:53.760 - 00:20:10.699

uh, helping the guy who delivered the meat and ice on Saturdays, uh, uh, uh, he, he worked during the week and I worked with him on Saturdays where, uh, where I would run into a house with a package of meat or else we would uh take

00:20:10.699 - 00:20:28.869

in 25 pound piece of ice or 50 pound piece of ice depending on what they ordered and, uh, and then in the summertime when we uh. When he went on 2 weeks vacation, I worked, uh, then, uh, I worked, uh, uh, uh, learned to drive this

00:20:28.869 - 00:20:48.630

Model T Ford truck, and, uh, and we had 2 for 2 weeks I would work steady, but I think I got $2 a day for working in that part time job. And uh and uh. So, uh, I had uh then uh. Then I went to work,

00:20:48.760 - 00:21:05.800

uh, down in Neal Rock on the railroad uh during the summer. Uh, Beverly reminded me of that. I was still a high school kid then and uh worked on the section gang. Each worker got 1 week vacation. It was 8 on the section gang, and with

00:21:05.800 - 00:21:22.709

a, uh. Let's say the guy who was the uh. I can't remember what you call him now, but he, he, he ran up and down the track and picked out the places where we had to, uh, uh, either put in new ties or or raise or

00:21:22.709 - 00:21:39.819

lower the rails and so forth, the track walker it was called. So there were 9 guys and so I got in, uh. I got in at 2.5 months, uh, summer work with a with that Northwestern Pacific Railroad and I was just, I was just a kid

00:21:39.819 - 00:21:58.770

then, uh, working on this, uh, section gang. So, uh, I had, uh, uh, then, then we moved down here and I was gonna go to school. My sister, uh, Jessie was pressing me to become a, uh, to, to go to university. I graduated from high school.

00:21:59.439 - 00:22:15.709

And uh but uh when I went to work in the lumber mill, I was still in high school then and, and so. I had uh uh odds and ends of experience. So what, what do you think it was that that made you receptive to the oblies

00:22:15.709 - 00:22:35.390

other other guys probably were. It was the experience I had there in that meal that was the main thing, uh, because, uh, when I, uh, when I discovered that, uh, discovered that the uh that the married families and what they did with this woman. They ousted

00:22:35.390 - 00:22:50.510

her. In other words, she had to vacate the house because they wanted them to bring another family and where they would have a worker, a couple of workers in the in the house, and so they actually uh uh ousting her from her, uh, and, uh, and

00:22:50.510 - 00:23:09.540

then the fact that we were working, uh, uh, overtime without being paid for and so forth so that, uh, the, the, so that the uh. In the fact that they tried to drip this woman out of her, her compensation that she was supposed to receive because

00:23:09.540 - 00:23:38.050

her husband had been killed, these kind of things struck me very heavy so that the agitation of these two young wobblies, uh, uh, I was receptive to it and uh. Thank you. Well then, um, then, uh, then you say after 24 the Wobblies weren't were around

00:23:38.050 - 00:23:59.479

about the last year they were active. They have been, uh, of course they had some very serious, uh, ideological weaknesses, you know, they, uh, they refused to participate in elections and, uh. And they had some uh ultra leftist uh uh uh uh policies and, uh, but

00:23:59.479 - 00:24:19.670

at the same time, In some of these industries they played a very positive role because they did give impetus to organizing and uh and uh and of uh moving in a collective, uh, and they refused to participate in the labor movement and uh so that they

00:24:19.670 - 00:24:39.640

had some very incorrect ideas. But they also, they also help workers, uh, and, uh, like kind of the kind of job I actually organized in this, uh, in this company town, you know, was really very outstanding in many ways and, um, and, uh, because the workers

00:24:39.640 - 00:24:54.569

walked out of the mill and up to the, uh, up to the company office and, uh, they shut the mill down and this guy after he came out and balled this guy out to uh. For for having failed to pay this woman her compensation, I told

00:24:54.569 - 00:25:11.520

you to pay her and then he told us to take the rest of the day off and we'd get full pay for the day and so forth. So, so we got in a few hours extra pay for that day was in the area at that time

00:25:11.520 - 00:25:31.130

that I, I don't know what lumber mills, the lumber mills were extremely uh. Uh, open shop and of course in the company towns because they have complete control. Matter of fact, uh, there are two of the big mills up there that are still company towns, Pacific

00:25:31.130 - 00:25:48.219

Lumber down in Scotia, that's a company town. And then the Ham and Lumber Company that used to be the ham and it's one of the Pacific, uh, either Louisiana Pacific or or the other Pacific, uh, Georgia that that took over the, uh, the Ham and Lumber

00:25:48.219 - 00:26:04.750

Company and Samoa was a was a company town and I don't know what it is now, but I know that the Samoa Cookhouse has become a, uh, tourist, yeah, a tourist place. And they still served the way they used to serve in that cookhouse up in

00:26:05.079 - 00:26:23.680

Cornell where they would serve uh everything out on the table and, uh, in platters, you know, and you help yourself to whatever what you wanted and but there was uh the the only um period that I know of prior to that and sometime we should get

00:26:23.680 - 00:26:44.349

the information about it, the left Socialists were strong and stayed up and down the coast. During World War One and uh in Eureka, 22 members of the Socialist Party was elected to the city council in 1919, and then a third person was a representative was a

00:26:44.349 - 00:27:04.329

candidate from the Central Labor Council, and they worked together. They formed the majority on the, on the Central Labor council, and then that was the year of 1919 when they left Socialists were. prevented from attending the National Socialist convention. And the California socialists came back here

00:27:04.329 - 00:27:25.709

and held a, uh, held a convention here in Oakland and formed the Communist Labor Party of California and that was when they had a coast paper called the World which had a very large circulation and I think around 15-18,000 coastwide circulation there. What was it about

00:27:25.709 - 00:27:45.729

15 or 18,000 circulation up and down the coast. And the Communist Labor Party adopted the world as their official organ then were there, was there any remains of a union called the Timber Workers Union in 1924 was it? Not that I know of. I don't know

00:27:45.729 - 00:28:05.829

of any, any successful organization of lumber at that time. And of course we had the extremely difficult efforts in the 1930s and uh and um was was the four L's strong up there or not you know uh uh uh uh loyal Legion not in that area,

00:28:05.989 - 00:28:31.339

no, not in around our Eureka, Arcata, no Fortuna, Ferndale, it wasn't, wasn't uh they were mainly on the east in the northwest. Areas of the Northwest. Well, sometime later I'd like to go over the history, your own personal history between 24 and 35, but maybe right

00:28:31.339 - 00:28:49.479

now I'm curious to know more about what led up to the 35 strike and some of that stuff, so let's move on to there. Well, 35, I went back to work in the the lumber industry and uh and um. About 1933, I guess the end of

00:28:49.479 - 00:29:10.369

1933 uh and um I'd been working down here and I had a job with a Standard Oil Company and uh I had gone to work before the 1929 crash. There was a young guy that uh got a job there for me who's turned out later, his

00:29:10.369 - 00:29:29.459

father was uh one of the top uh. Officials in the Standard Oil Company and my brother, uh, one of the brothers that was a truck driver, uh, drove truck for the Standard Oil Company and then out of Arcata, and then, uh, this young guy came up

00:29:29.459 - 00:29:49.310

and worked summers with my brother, so he, uh, he, uh, they, they had me apply to the Standard Oil Company for a job. And uh I was made the assistant hallboy superintendent after I've been there only a few weeks. And we were taking in um high

00:29:49.310 - 00:30:12.750

school graduates and uh giving them uh intelligence tests and the young people that they hired were those who got average tests. They didn't hire either the low or the high IQ test people and they were being trained for jobs. And the, uh, being trained for jobs,

00:30:12.760 - 00:30:31.640

uh, in the different departments and uh so I worked there about a year and um then a guy who was moved from uh another part of the state, Standard Oil was beginning to take over small lumber, uh, oil companies and and. Because he didn't know the

00:30:31.640 - 00:30:47.599

area, they had me go with him when he had to go to different parts of the Northern California and so forth to show him the way and so forth. So then he explained to me what my job was at Standard Oil Company and I was helping

00:30:47.599 - 00:31:05.750

to train high school graduates who were replacing uh uh workers, people who had been working for one or another oil company for many, many years. And so I quit the Standard Oil Company then and uh and uh and uh then I got uh odd jobs on

00:31:05.750 - 00:31:27.560

the waterfront in San Francisco where they I was working for the Pacific Lumber Company and uh I'm not the Pacific Lumber Company. I was working for the uh Uh Uh, Pacific Steamship Company. they had, uh, they ran small steam scooters up and down the coast and

00:31:27.959 - 00:31:46.709

we were on Pier 1618 and 20 then on Pier 22, the Panama Pacific had uh uh a big uh uh uh cruisers that ran between San Francisco and New York down through the Panama Canal and that carried passengers and freight to New York and back and,

00:31:46.719 - 00:32:09.680

uh, so that in that experience I had there was that, uh, Was uh uh uh. Began to slack off in the 30s as a depression hit more and more and I was only working occasionally and I had occasional long short jobs and they had a shape

00:32:09.680 - 00:32:24.810

up what they call a shape up. You had to go down about 6:30 every morning to stand in line and then a walking boss would come out and pick those. You go to work, you go home, and so forth and uh. And uh then uh this

00:32:24.810 - 00:32:40.170

uh this mill up in Arcata you said uh I had worked there a number of years ago when I was a kid. It was a barrel factory barrel, yeah, they made uh they made barrels at that time, but then barrels began to be taken over by

00:32:40.170 - 00:32:59.300

the uh by the uh the steel steel barrels began to be manufactured was that began to take let's see, I worked in, I worked in the barrel factory and um. I don't know, the mid-twenties, uh, they're already moving to steel, they were still working. They were

00:32:59.300 - 00:33:16.260

still making barrels there and I got a job there because I, uh, one of the kids I knew, his father was a, uh, was a big shot in the California Barrel Company mill then and, uh, and, uh, so that he for some reason or another became

00:33:16.260 - 00:33:34.020

friendly with me and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, we, so I got a job, uh. Uh, he had, he, he was arranged for me to get a job in this barrel factory, and, uh, the job I got was, uh, packing the staves and, uh, for the

00:33:34.020 - 00:33:50.000

guy who turned out to be the high uh the high production guy on the on the what they call the jointer, uh, that was, uh, where they'd get these barrel staves and There was a huge machine that ran went around like that and he would put

00:33:50.000 - 00:34:06.989

his foot down, press the stave into the, uh, and it would put the joint on each side of the stave, and then, um, the Packers had, uh, they, they were all different widths and uh you had to, uh, uh, sort them out uh narrow and, uh,

00:34:07.359 - 00:34:21.979

and wide widths until they would come out of a certain mark. And uh and uh then that would, that would be uh one barrel and that's the what you packed up then you put a couple of wide ones on the bottom and then a wide one

00:34:21.979 - 00:34:38.178

and a narrow one and a narrow one and a wide one and then uh build up a bundle and then with a with a with a wire uh metal wire you just tie on each end and then that would go on to you, you'd put them

00:34:38.178 - 00:34:57.830

onto a uh. Onto a uh. Uh, uh, a flat car that they would then roll them out or they're gonna load them onto onto, uh, freight cars out on the on the on the on the side of the building and, uh, this guy was the, uh,

00:34:58.250 - 00:35:13.560

happened to be the prize joiner and uh and Packers had difficulty keeping up with him. And it happened that uh the job that I was somehow or another took to pretty good, so I was able to keep up with him. Then he began to break me

00:35:13.560 - 00:35:30.469

in as a jointer. Uh, he would, uh, uh, in about 6 hours he would have almost a quota for the day and then he began to put me on the machine to, uh, learn how to run the jointing machine. And uh and uh and so I

00:35:30.469 - 00:35:49.000

worked there about a year and then the mill that the mill was shut down and what year was that? Oh, that was in the late 20s uh before I moved down here to the Bay Area. That was about 1926 or so. Well then this mill was

00:35:49.000 - 00:36:08.550

shut down for a number of years and uh then it reopened as a uh where they made box tops and uh and uh and uh and bushel baskets and so forth, uh, that is they made the baskets that uh held one bushel of fruit or vegetables

00:36:08.959 - 00:36:25.709

for the agricultural industry in box tops and box sides, so forth and, uh, and, uh, and I was uh. Uh, running out of work down here and my friends got in touch with me that the mill was reopening and I should come up and apply and

00:36:25.709 - 00:36:41.429

when I went up and applied, I immediately put to work as a matter of fact, uh, uh, they began to put me on a job running one of these, uh, running one of these machines that uh made the bushel baskets, and that's the job I worked

00:36:41.429 - 00:37:03.810

on for, uh, uh, for some time. Remember how long I worked on that you lose your hearing. Yeah. Oh, is that, is that what I found out my ears all right. And uh that um that was in the late 20s. Well, um that was in the

00:37:03.810 - 00:37:24.550

30s and that's when we then began to organize a level workers union. Uh, that was in that was in the 1932, I guess it was and uh 32 is when you began to organize. Well, we began to organize later than that, about 1933, uh, can you

00:37:24.550 - 00:37:44.080

describe that organizing to me? Why did you do what we did was, um, what we did was that um. I had when I worked down here on the waterfront, I saw the Western worker a few times and I attended a few meetings, uh demonstrations of unemployed,

00:37:44.709 - 00:38:03.560

and when the police were made vicious attacks on the speakers that were organized by the Communist Party and, uh, and, uh, and then, um. When uh we began to talk about uh trying to organize the mill, that was in the late 30, 33, I guess, and

00:38:03.560 - 00:38:23.159

early 34. We've got then a number of, uh, I, I, I talked to these uh people, young, young people that I had. Been raised with and knew for you know for a number of years and uh we began to meet secretly and uh and talked about

00:38:23.159 - 00:38:42.629

organizing a union and uh and um so that then we began to organize some job actions that is there were many things in the mill that were uh the dust and the noise and uh uh the the the sawdust that we worked in was very bad

00:38:42.629 - 00:39:07.550

too. They didn't provide masks or what have you for the sawdust and uh this fine dust, you know, it was with this box and shook stuff and um and then um finally when we began to talk about organizing a union, we began to meet secretly and

00:39:07.550 - 00:39:24.010

um. And uh so when we got how many, how many people would come to a meeting? Well, we were, we finally lined up about 20 that were interested in joining a union. They would go to somebody's house, yeah, so I went over then to the Central

00:39:24.010 - 00:39:43.139

Labor council to get a charter. And uh there was a guy, if I remember his name correctly, Mike Burns, who was a Republican member of the state assembly who was secretary treasurer of the Central Labor Council. Well, he gave me a lecture then and uh said

00:39:43.139 - 00:40:03.489

that uh that uh history had proven that, uh, only the skilled workers that made good union members and that all I'd only get a few. So these workers in trouble if I could line up uh uh 15 or 20 electricians, they would provide us a charter

00:40:03.489 - 00:40:24.290

for the electricians or uh carpenters and millwides they issue a charter for carpenters, but that I shouldn't organize the uh. The uh the production workers at the trade was he out of? How's that? What was he out of? Uh, plumbers. Mike Burns headed up the machinist

00:40:24.290 - 00:40:42.889

union, auto mechanics really. There were two delegates to the Central Labor council himself and another delegate, and after a couple of years this other delegate got in touch with me. And he explained that he and Mike Burns were the only members of the union. Burns was

00:40:42.889 - 00:41:00.780

paying per capita on about 50 members in order to maintain the charter and to maintain his status in the Central Labor council, but that when the young guy then began to, when the lumber workers began to organize, it began to stimulate craft workers, uh uh uh

00:41:00.790 - 00:41:19.449

uh uh not only those that were unorganized as well as those organized. So, uh, the auto mechanics began to come to him to see about joining the union, and Burns put a stop to it, wouldn't allow him to take in any members. It was a it

00:41:19.449 - 00:41:37.969

was a paper local, yeah, that's right. It was a paper local, and I noticed you're looking at the Foster's, uh, Foster said in that period that the AL claimed to have about 2.5 million members. But then actually they only had about 1.5 million because many of

00:41:37.969 - 00:41:57.899

them were paper locals all over the country. They maintained paper locals and pay per capita tax, you know, for, for various reasons. Well, in any case, then um then um. I knew that uh that the Communist Party had organized trade union Unity League. And uh so

00:41:57.899 - 00:42:12.540

we went over, uh uh 3 or 4 of us went over to talk to the party organizer in Eureka and about and so he immediately arranged for us to get a charter from the Trade Union Unity League. Let me stop right there. Why did they have

00:42:12.540 - 00:42:29.709

an organizer in Eureka? Uh, how, why did they have an organize a party organizer? Yeah, was Eureka very important? They had only a small group, but they, they maintained uh. I had this one person who become publicly known as the uh as the party representative there.

00:42:29.909 - 00:42:47.350

Did they, did the Communist Party then have these kinds of people all over the state or was Eureka special? No, I think they, I think they had uh they had uh organizers in quite a number of counties, yes, quite a number of counties, and, uh, the

00:42:47.350 - 00:43:07.969

party did become, well, we, we later organized a party of, uh. Maybe 40 or 50 members there, but then when the uh when the McCarthyite attacks took place, they demolished the party pretty much but uh at that time, uh, at that time the uh. The, the,

00:43:07.979 - 00:43:30.770

uh, the, the party that it was very small. I really didn't know. That was the kind of federations in the party wasn't it wasn't that the period of federations in the party and the Finns were in the Eka area yeah. And uh So there were a

00:43:30.770 - 00:43:46.760

lot of in addition to this guy from TUUL, there was a lot of, there were a lot of fins and other people. The fins were divided. They have red fins and white fins. The red fins have their own hall. They later provided the hall for us

00:43:46.760 - 00:44:19.379

to hold meetings for the lumber workers, for the unemployed, and so forth, and the uh. The uh Um, They had the same situation here in Berkeley. You still got red in Berkeley. OK and and and I hate to reveal my ance Did white refer to socialist

00:44:19.379 - 00:44:41.850

as opposed to communist or was it anti-communist? So it wasn't even socialist. No, no, so the split wasn't communist versus socialist, it was communist versus anti-communist. I think so. Yeah, what was that? I mean the, the split. Your your hearing aid isn't incorrectly fine. The split

00:44:41.860 - 00:45:07.060

between the fins, white and red. Was it socialist versus communist or communist versus anti-communist? They had the revolutions in Finland and there were uh more conservative Finns who were also socialist minded but more conservative than the the the red revolutionary Finns that formed the Red Finns

00:45:07.060 - 00:45:27.929

and uh they they were conservative socialists and the Slavonians, there was a Slavonian group there in the Bay in Eureka too at that time, and they had a similar, similar situation among the Slavonians. And, uh, however, they were very progressive in terms of, uh, uh, you

00:45:27.929 - 00:45:49.790

know, helping to organize, participating in union activities and so forth. So, um, I forget where I was now. That's OK. You went down to the TUUL organizer. We went to charter. They chartered us for the entire Redwood district from Crescent City down to, uh, the Fort

00:45:49.790 - 00:46:14.340

Bragg and the Mendocino County, one charter with sub-locals, the idea of having sub-locals then in um in uh. Uh, we then attempted to organize that. Then in 1934, the AFL adopted a policy of setting up federal labor charters. So, uh, then we, uh, took our local

00:46:14.340 - 00:46:31.169

and got agreement to apply for a federal labor charter, and we were immediately granted a federal labor charter. And they granted a charter for the same, uh same charter that we had with the TUUL, in other words, covered the entire Redwood district with sub-locals, the idea

00:46:31.169 - 00:46:32.169

of having sub-local.