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Uh, they could. This is uh Bruce Kuiper for the Radical elder Oral History Project, and the date is February 2nd, if I'm not mistaken. And uh this is the first of a series of interviews with Ray Thompson. Right, uh, when and where were you born? I

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was born in San Francisco. I, I'll acquiesce to the clowns that insist on calling it San Francisco, but anyhow, I call it Frisco. And I would put it this way, it was in dear old Frisco where I first saw the light. The many frolics I had

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there are still fresh in my memory tonight, excepting one sad recollection which I know you'll all understand. When I tell you the cause of my downfall was a girl with a blue velvet band. Now if you want to hear the next 40 verses, OK. I think

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I think you have to hold off on that on that born, right? I was born August 25, 1905 and you do you know the origin or your great great great great as much as I have been told and as much as I can remember. My father

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was born in a town near Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. And my mother was born in Frisco. Now, do they know the origin of their parents? Uh, I, that I don't know. I never did go into it when They were alive with them. I never did discuss. Their background

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to that extent what were the occupations of your father and mother? What were the what? The occupations. Oh, my father. My father was a seaman up to the time he met my mother. Uh, in fact, he was just, it was in 1899, I think. He met

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her in San Francisco. What the hell am I saying San Francisco for? Anyhow, he met her in Frisco. After he was, after he returned from His recuperation in the hospital in Japan after the Spanish-American War. He fought in the Spanish-American War, unfortunately. Uh, And uh he

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and my mother met. Uh, he was employed just prior to the earthquake and fire. Yeah, as a, as a janitor in a building on Post Street. And uh he later became superintendent of the building. And uh then was in charge of employing all of the employees

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that worked in the building. And later, later acquired another building of which he was also superintendent. My mother was uh. Uh, housewife more than anything else. She did do domestic work, but Essentially she was a housewife. Uh, no, I don't know what she did prior to

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the time she met him. I do know, I do remember her telling me you're having worked for. Uh, Levi Strauss and company making overalls. Other than that, I'd have no knowledge of her work at that time. Uh, my mother, if I can remember properly. Uh, finished

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grammar school. She did not go to high school. I do not think my father finished grammar school as far as I know. My mother was a very well read. She was an avid reader. My father did some reading, but he was more a self-educated person, a

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very religious person, and most of his reading was uh Of a religious nature. I can't recall him, well, he read newspapers, of course, and he kept up on current events, but uh as far as books were concerned, I, I can't recall him. Being a reader of

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books in general. Oh, she, pardon, fiction, yeah, yeah, fiction books do you remember having on her shelf? Oh, When you get to that, I can't remember. I think mostly, I think her reading was mostly of current magazines. I especially remember Women's Home Companion, Woman's Home Companion.

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I think there's 4 ones yeah some companion. And uh Oh, I can't remember the other thing she read, but she did a lot of reading that I can remember. And uh uh and, and being as well read as she was naturally she, her Knowledge of grammar

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or English and that sort of thing was uh As good as the average person. In spite of her lack of education. Well, when you say your parents, uh, in your memory were well informed about the world, I mean, yes, yes, they were unfortunately, my father was

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uh uh somewhat misinformed, but uh. Uh, he was a great follower of such clowns as Lowell Thomas and uh. So some of the radio commentators of that period and uh He had a pretty good idea of what was going on. What, uh, what stories or what

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lessons do you remember them uh teaching you as a child that stand out in your memory? I mean that that indicate to you the scope of their knowledge and their understanding of the world. Well, that's a That's a hard question to answer. Uh, I can't pardon.

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Were they storytellers? I mean, did they like to tell stories to the kids? Um, not that I recall, no. Um, Uh, the best way I could answer that would be to say that since my father was also at one time, superintendent of the Sunday school, he

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did. Uh, um. Tell biblical stories. Some of which I can remember, uh, although I would have to. Get my mind down to it to. Uh, be specific. Um, No, I can't, uh, I can't recall any at the moment. Did he ever tell you uh like parables

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or, or, uh, you know, things that that had a moral, a strong moral message, uh. Yes, he was always trying to rear his children in a way that uh He could be proud of. It was his pride, I think. Uh, that occupied the. His thoughts, uh,

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his status in the community. That he was more concerned about, I think. Tha uh that of his children. He was a very proud person. He did his, he conducted his life in a highly moral way. And uh Uh, he was the sort of person that um,

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Could not get. Uh, near enough to his children to get his children to really love him. He, um, Didn't realize this until. His children had grown and I think I probably was one of the 4 children that were in our family that Ever found this out.

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Because after he was. Uh, confined bed for a period of time. Various incidents occurred that That got me to know him better. And uh begin to understand him. Uh, better. If he had unbent, I think. Uh, there might have been a different situation in regard to

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the relationship. That did not exist between Himself and his children. No, I was the 2nd oldest. I had an older brother, um. James, who Uh, left Home around. The age of 8:15 or 18, somewhere, I don't remember the exact year. And lived in Detroit, spent his

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life in, in, in Michigan. I had a younger sister. The who um. was 5 years. Or 10 years younger than me. Um, and I had another brother, younger than me. There were 4 of us that lived, 1 died. Of those 4. There are 2 left, myself

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and my sister. My brother having, having uh recently died in uh Sacramento. No, that would be the, that would be the brother that was younger than me. Now the brother in Detroit, what did he do when he moved he he he had no education. He, he

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didn't finish grammar school. Uh, or if he did finish grammar school, which I don't, I doubt very much. Uh, he didn't go to high school, so he had no education. He did work at various plants, automobile plants in Michigan. He was afflicted with her. Uh, partially.

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Um, Deformed leg. which uh somewhat inhibited his ability to get around. And as a result, uh, He couldn't get the kinds of jobs that he might have gotten if he had been physically Uh, well, if, if it had been normal. Well, uh, your father was religious.

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He was Baptist. Yeah, and you say he was uh he was an elder in the church? Yes, he was very active as as one of the deacons of the church, superintendent of the Sunday school. And uh he spent most of, he, he spent a lot of

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time. Taking care of the church. Uh, it was him that would get the wood to heat the furnace for the church and see to it that the coal was gotten in and in some cases pay for it. See that the church was properly cared for on

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the outside, such as the painting, repairing. And other things that were necessary to keep a building in that kind of shape. The building was at the corner of Clay and Hyde Street. It's now occupied by a fire if it still is, by a Buddhist church. Uh,

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it, uh. It was first built on Powell Street prior to the earthquake and fire, and after the earthquake and fire then was rebuilt, was built at the corner of Clay and High Street. Well did he try to impress the religion on the Oh, yes, he was

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very insistent that we be religious. We had to attend, we. When I was a boy, I think I got more religion than the average young man, uh, the average child. On Sunday, the routine on Sunday, for an example, was Up early. And we'd have breakfast. And

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from there, from there we would go to a Presbyterian Sunday school, white Presbyterian Sunday school at the corner of California, uh, I mean, Clement and 31st Avenue. And there, we would have Sunday school, returning from there, we'd Come back home and from there, go down to

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the Black Sunday school, or the Baptist Sunday School. After finishing, The Black Sunday school. We'd go, we'd go upstairs to the church. And church services would last, uh uh if I remember correctly. Then until. 12:30, anywhere from 12:30 to 2 o'clock on Sunday afternoon. And we

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would come home. And we could not read the funny paper even on Sunday. We could not play on Sunday. We had to um. Observe the Sabbath. Which we did on the pain of. Uh, well, on the pain of some penalty, I'll put it mildly. Yeah. Yeah.

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Well, uh. Do you feel that the religious virtues that your father tried to pass on to you, uh, that any of those virtues lasted with you in your life? Any of the Christian ethics or any of the things that were obviously a strong part of the

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Baptist faith. If you are speaking from a religious point of view, no. What about in a political or social point of view? Were there any lessons of the church that could be uh translated in political terms? That lasted with you. I can't, I can't, uh. I

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can't get my mind to think in uh in that way. I can't, I can't, I can't get it. At this point. I, I, um. I do believe that it's possible that. Uh, I His attitude towards uh. The church and its punctility. Had something to do with

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my. Behavior in that respect. And uh to have a political consciousness as far as voting is concerned, I do believe that. I did, yes, I do admire uh speaking in general of my father, I do admire his honesty and his ethics. Because he was honest to

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uh. Uh, point of fanaticism. Um, He took care of the funds of the church. And uh he also took uh Uh, care of uh miscellaneous collections that occurred and was always careful in his, uh, dealing with money and with other people's money. He was very honest.

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And he had uh many opportunities to be dishonest. That honesty of his. Uh, unfortunately, was Much better Then my honesty. Because I certainly wasn't that honest. Yeah, as as a as a as a child up until. Up until long after I became a grown man, I

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had no such idea of honesty as that. You feel that you consciously rebelled from the the type of regimen that's possible I did uh it it's possible I did without. Uh, tying it to. A rebellion in, in that, uh, in thinking of it in those terms.

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I think that my dishonesty uh mainly was because of my Inability to get money to feed myself. When we were when we were kids. Why we had very little to eat. My parents felt that the way to save money since we were poor, of that, there's

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no question. The way to save money was to save it by food. And the children did not get enough to eat. I, as a, as a boy, did not get enough to eat. I can't remember very many, if any, good meals. In in terms of being

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well filled. Uh, until. Until I was around 15. I just can't remember. And this I believe was, was the reason that I did as much stealing as I did in order to get money to buy something to eat and I did do that kind of stealing.

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Well, what uh what were the priorities of spending on the part of your parents? Obviously you had a real tight budget. I mean you were poor people. Uh, what, what came before food? To your parents Well, clothes, of course, we were decently dressed. Since we were

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the only black family on the block and the only black family or one of the two or three black families in the entire Richmond district of San Francisco. Uh It is incumbent upon us to be Uh, an example to the, my father felt it was incumbent

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upon him to take to Keep us uh properly clothed and well behaved. Uh But it didn't work out as far as behavior is concerned because as boys, we did all the things that other boys did. Some good, some bad. And being the only black kids, we

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stood out like a sore thumb. I, for an example, was the only black kid in the school. My brother was the only black kid in the school that he went to, which is a different one. I went to the old Roammble School on 25th Avenue between

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California and Lake. And uh I finished the 8th grade there. I, I finished a year behind that at the time I should have because my department or my writing, I forget which it was, held me back for a period, for a period, how long that was.

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I can't remember. Graduated, I think when I was 15. Yeah, I've got the diploma. I got the certificate downstairs. But uh in terms of your parents uh relations, do you, uh, I mean, uh, what was your mother like? Was she, was she a uh a uh

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a forceful religious person like your father, or was she more reticent about religion? She wasn't as, uh, she wasn't as interested in religion as my father was, and she certainly wasn't as religious and as honest as my father was. I'll never forget the time when I

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Uh when I was with my mother in a clinic. Uh, where she was applying for medical care for her family. And the question was asked. It's a funny thing how these things can stick with me. Uh, the question was asked how much a month my father

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made made. And she told a lie in regard to the exact amount. I forget now the the the amount, but I do remember that it was in that amount. And I was just shocked to think that my mother would lie. I just couldn't believe it. She

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couldn't believe it. Oh, she did. I was there. I was there and heard her. My father did was not there. So my, my, my father uh didn't know anything about it and in fact never did. She admonished me in regard to it and she was upset

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that uh she had done it and that she had, she had set this kind of an example to me but uh Uh I don't know that that had anything to do with my. Future things that they're thinking about the morality of lying. What did you feel

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closer to your father or mother? Huh, that's a hard question. I never gave any thought to. I've never given any thought to it. I don't know. I would say it's about the same. I would probably my mother, I was closer to my mother and my father.

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My father always, I think it, yes, it would be my mother. My father was a hard man and my father was the one that did. The punishing of the children and, and uh I think there might have been some Feeling of aversion for my father because

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of the fact that he did punish me and he did punish me in the way he did. Because when he put it on, he put it on, he didn't uh hesitate. You feel that your father was indiscriminate in terms of his uh despondent. But he was

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what? He was indiscriminate. In other words, you know, he was not very selective. No, he he he did it he did it in a proper way in terms of uh he didn't just strike out and hit hit our children with anything he could find and that

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sort of thing. Uh, a, a punishment with him was a formal sort of thing if we had done something to merit it. Uh, bad reports from school were the worst things. And um I was probably the most obstreperous of all of the kids. And he had

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more difficulty with me than he did with them. So he finally devised a way of tying me to one of the uprights in the basement. Um, Uh, with a leather strap and then laying it on with a cat with 10 tails on it. And uh I

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got quite a few beatings of that kind towards the time I got older. Around 1213, 14. And I certainly guess I if if. There was or is an American punishing one. deserved it in terms of that. I don't know about punishment. It's a difficult thing to

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say whether it does any good or not. There are those who are certain that it does no good and there are those who believe that on some occasion it's uh. A worthwhile thing. So it's it's a debatable question. Yeah, he wanted to see, yeah, he wanted

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to see you and then to an impression was aware or did he expressly to you. A sensitivity to the the plight of black people in America, uh, and did he articulate anything pertaining to that issue? Yes, he did. He, uh, he was quite race conscious, but

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it's a peculiar thing about his attitude towards my thinking in regard to race. He didn't want me to read such papers as Chicago Defender or the Pittsburgh Courier. He thought that all they did to me, and I don't recall what impressions I had at that at

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that age. He felt that all he did to me was to excite me to the point of anger that could not be satisfied. And uh I can I can recall his uh getting upset and uh he did make the statement that he stopped me from reading

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the Chicago Defender one time. I don't recall it, but he, he, I do recall him making that statement. Uh, I probably was 12, at least 12 years old. At least 15 years old. I began reading at an early age. I got the habit from my mother.

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And I, I have done a tremendous amount of reading in my life. When I say tremendous, I'm not exaggerating. I used to read, read and read. And uh so I probably was around 12 when I started. Prevent you from uh reading uh the Pittsburgh Courier lay

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down, go laying down. Go What did you say? Why, why did he prevent you from reading the uh Pittsburgh Courier of the Chicago Defender? Why did he? Well, as I said, because he felt that it upset me too much. Uh, and, uh, Why he didn't think

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I should get upset or have some uh sensitivity in regard to what was happening in those days uh with the uh To the mistreatment. Uh, of black people, I don't understand, but he never did, uh, he never was. It wasn't because he lacked uh. The same

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kind of anger. That black people felt that the, the way they were mistreated. Uh, Because he did. Either form. But certainly did participate. In a demonstration at the old Pantagious Theater on Market Street. And uh. Um, against. I think it was Lillian Gish's um. Um, Birth

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of a Nation. I think that's what it was and uh He was active in church affairs, I mean, um, in, in community affairs. In regard to The problems that black people had there such as the Uh, Acquisition of property for a community center. And with