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If I can have to this until I get into this wing of a chair. What I think I'll do is I'm going to do a formal introduction, uh, and that way, you know, for purposes of transcription, you know. This is the uh radical elder Artists project

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interview with Dick Correll. The date is April. What is the date today? April 24th, 24th, April 24th, 1978. Dick, when and where were you born? I was born in Springfield, Missouri in 19. Uh, what was your class background? Well, my parents uh were raised on um.

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Iowa farms Uh, And I think my father got some. Cause consciousness from uh. The problem is that his, his father had with the banker that leased the farm. Can you describe that? What happened? Well, it was, I was so small when uh when there was discussion

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about that that. Um, I remember, uh, the banker. It seems to have been a very hard bargainer. And there were complaints among amongst various members of the family. About uh The uh My father's father not making a better deal, right, right. Well now what sort of

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farming work was it? Uh, my mother's farm was a family size farm. My father's uh. The farm that he was raised on was a. Fair size stock farm so he was not involved. Well, in other words, he was doing grain and uh cereal uh uh he

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was doing um. Well, the raising of corn and grains. And uh And the stock that they concentrate on was uh were uh. Beef and uh. Hogs, hogs, right. Uh, now, let's see, at this time, uh, was your father involved in any of the activities going on

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at the time, some of the populist activities, uh, I know the, uh, the nonpartisan league launched a little bit later, but, uh, was he involved in any of that activity? Uh, no, he, uh. He really didn't get involved in uh. Activity until after he'd been married

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a while. Well, what, what was his ethnic background? Um, my father is um. People are Came from uh. A part of them came from continental Europe. I think the name is uh. It's a French name. And also Irish. Yes, it's Irish blood in the other. French

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on your through my my grandmother, my great grandmother right now was that on your mother's side or your father's side? My father's side. My mother folks were Welsh and English, Welsh and English. Well, uh, how, how was the ethnic background evident in your family life as

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a child? I mean, uh, were there any uh customs or any uh cultural traditions that were manifest in your, uh, your childhood? Not that I can recall. When did they come to the uh the United States? My father's people came in um. 1793, I believe, yeah,

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my mother's people I believe came in um. Early 19th century so they were part of the uh the immigrant uh yeah. Movement, or no, wait a minute, 19th century, yeah, that would be, uh, well, there was the first wave I guess was in the early 1800s.

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Uh, the wave, uh, that was the, uh, that, that was the Irish wave. When, when did the Irish first Irish move come? That was in the early 1800s. I'm not sure about that. Yeah, I think it was, yeah, right, that was in 1830s or 30s, right,

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I think my probably my father's people came over in 17. 93 as a result of the conflict around Osloserane where they lived. Right, right, yeah, now that conflict was, uh, what, what was the issue then? Well, it was uh. Um, The that province had passed back

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and forth between Germany and France. Over several centuries, I understand. So it was a uh it was in essence it was a borderline uh struggle over yeah well the problem went all the way up to the uh. Into the 20th century, were they, uh, were your,

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do you know what uh background in Europe your parents were in that? I know, I don't, uh. I believe they must have been craftsmen, farmers' craftsmen. Because they uh uh. My grandfather, my father's father was a very good craftsman. Gardener and farmer. Well, were your parents

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educated? I mean, in the sense of formal schooling. My parents, um, I believe had the equivalent of. Of um 2 years of high school, they called it academy at that time. And uh My mother had uh 2 years at Oberlin Conservatory. And she was a singer

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and a music teacher, my father. After he left home, he um. He taught school, one of the country schools for a while. And then uh He worked in a bank, clerk in a bank. Studied law and passed the uh. Bar examination in Missouri. We decided not

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to practice because of. Of uh The chicanery that he saw in the in the profession. Well, your father sounds like a uh fellow who was uh very perceptive, uh, in terms of, uh, social affairs and events. Uh, what, uh, what was his attitude toward the world?

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I mean, do you feel that your father had a radical inclination? Uh, do you remember in your childhood him talking about political questions and obviously his interest in, you know, this whole bank issue and describe, describe that. Well. My both my parents were avid readers. Uh,

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my father was uh. Interested in philosophy. And uh I think what what got him uh. Definitely on the road to political activity was his picking up a copy of the Appeal to Reason, an old radical weekly. And then he began to uh. Study uh political writers

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including Marx and Engels. Oh, do you, how, how was he philosophical? How did he convey it? Into your memory, I mean, would he openly speak, uh, you know, to you like a group family sessions, uh, would he expound upon his, his view of the world and,

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uh, and his understanding of these, uh, these theories that he was reading from these books? Oh yes, certainly. Can you describe uh just exactly how he uh conveyed his philosophical side and his temperament? Well, uh. I remember that he used to invite acquaintances of his and

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um. And uh the town where we lived and uh. They would get together at dinner and uh and afterwards he would have long discussions. Were they uh heated discussions. Well, no, uh. Not with this particular person, but, however, I, I remember my father had getting into

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heated arguments with with other people. Over politics. Well, what was the sentiment of uh farmers in his area? I mean, toward, uh, questions of, you know, dealing with the rise of capitalism and some of the other themes that the appeal to reason and and these uh

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manuscripts dealt with. Were they critical? The uh people. Now, what the the uh. Particular time that comes to my mind is uh. The time we lived in Hermiston, Oregon. It in a small town there, Herberton. And um The people there varied. There were some, some, uh,

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few radical people. And uh There was a local of the socialist party there at one time. Which my father joined. He was a great admirer of Eugene V. Debs. So, uh, tell me, uh, you know. Can you convey uh the, the issues that came out of

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these discussions with the farmers? In these areas that he lived in, both in Missouri and in Oregon. What, what, what were the key themes that they talked about? Well, one of the, one of the main things was prices. Prices of The farm farm products and the.

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The amount that the farmers received in relation to the amount that the processors, the middlemen received. The uh did you see? Uh, in these discussions later when the nonpartisan movement started, I mean, did you see that movement stemming from this type of debate that took place

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in the early 1900s? I suppose the. I was too young then really to to really uh. Go into depth and It was Uh well, were your parents, uh, religious? No, they're, they're not, they weren't uh. They weren't um devout religious people. Um, However, They were influenced

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to some extent. As children growing up in Iowa. By um The uh puritanical atmosphere in the in the towns. For example, there was uh there was some objection on the part of devout religious people. To music on Sunday. Playing a violin was the act of the

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devil, some of these people. And of course my parents were were in favor of that opinion at all. Did they uh defy the uh social convention of the time? I don't, I don't think they paid any attention to it. Right Did, did you, uh, you, your

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parents say, you say your mother was a singer, uh. Was the whole theme of art and culture in general important to them in terms of their social life? Were these values that they they cherish? I don't think they they analyzed. The subject, uh. I think they're

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uh Their only contact with art was uh. Where's the Probably reproductions of of art in magazines and newspapers. I'm speaking about art in general, you know, not not only visual art, but also music, literature. Oh yes, they, they admired art. And they were And they read

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the many of the classics literature. Like what? Oh, of course, so. George Elliot and. Victor Hugo There's many authors, many authors that they used to read. Mhm Did they uh convey to you, uh, where did you pick up while growing up? Uh, from them, and the

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value of art in any kind of, uh, not necessarily analyzed way, but, you know, why it was important or. Or anything like that or what the value of it was. No, they just, uh, they just liked it. My mother was uh. Well, she She was um

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Extremely fond of music, naturally. And uh She would uh And nearly every uh locality where we lived and and our my family moved around a great deal. My father was a very restless person. And um My mother just barely get acquainted in the locality and he

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See a farm somewhere else or a town somewhere else they thought was better and they. We'd all pack up and move. And um to get back to your question, um. Every time we moved into a new new colony, my mother would. Look around for a church.

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That she could uh where she could. Get a little social life and uh and sing and maybe play the piano or organ. And my father My father occasionally would go uh after a lot of urging. But he was almost an atheist. As far as religion is

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concerned. What would you say that your mother's uh interest in searching out these churches was religiously inspired or more more yeah. Because what else was there in a little in a little town, you know. Sometimes it'd be the country with just a country school and a

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little. A little uh church down the road. The same with a small town, there'd be several churches, of course. Her parents had been Protestant, so she would join whatever Protestant church happened to be handy. What denomination was she there? I think her her parents were Presbyterians,

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you know. So they have that Calvinist Lutheran uh type mix. But she doesn't exactly nurture the eyes, does it? At the time, you remember they uh they were tended to be a somewhat of an anti uh image, you know, especially visual art. This idea of icon

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and stuff was critical, criticized. Do you know, uh, you know, you know, when you mentioned that your father was very restless, do you know what kind of thing he was looking for that would make him move or? So what drove him on and what was he

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searching for? Well, he was, he was anxious to do better economically, I think. Uh, he watched the market for. Cattle and sheep and hogs and. And um Hops At different times he was uh. Um, we lived in a small towns and he would go out and

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do carpentry work. Other times he we would move to a country farm and uh. And he would um Buy some sheep and raise sheep. Or cattle Hogs. Well, how, how did the, uh, you say he read Appeal to Reason. Do you ever remember him talking about,

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uh, Whalen's paper? I mean, why, why did he read, uh, uh, Appeal to Reason? I know it was a very popular. Well, he thought that um the the editor. Really uh got some material in there that was uh exposing the profit system. Is this where he

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first confronted uh Debs in terms of Deb's name and his uh about that time, yeah. Well, how about yourself, uh, during that time period, uh, what, what was your childhood like there? In your memory, you know, obviously one of the things that you've said is that

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you moved a lot. Did you ever feel like you were part of the community? I mean, in your childhood, or was that virtually impossible because of the uh yeah the moving? Uh, probably I was um. I'm, I felt most, most, um. We, we moved back and

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forth from eastern Oregon to western Oregon several times. In eastern Oregon, we always lived in Hermiston, always in a different house. In western Oregon, we, we lived in McMinnville. Yamhill Um, Woodburn, Newburgh a little quite a bit later. And um my brother and I, to go

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back to your original question about the childhood, my brother and my brother and I enjoyed this moving around. It's very exciting. And sometimes we move. Via a steamboat or a train and that was even more exciting. Quite often we moved a couple of horses and. And

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they uh Wagon Well, Material on there. Living equipment. Do you, do you feel like uh you're in your childhood that you've got uh. That your parents offered you uh uh sort of educational insights that uh later shaped your uh your later life. I mean, uh, what,

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what was it that they taught you that you remember? Well, my mother Taught me to To, um, love music. And I did study the piano a little bit, but I was switched off by uh uh. A greater interest in in visual arts. And I was very

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much interested in my father's discussions about politics. And uh All I had Had an influence. How, how did the uh. You mentioned being more in nice and visual or. Uh, early in your, you know, childhood, how did you see that coming, um. Well, the. I remember

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uh first uh. When I was about 7 or 8 years old, uh, cutting out. Farm animals, silhouettes of farm animals and birds. And after that I grafted into drawing. And I was drawing all to. The school days. Could you, uh, uh, describe that? I mean how

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you fit in. Your ties with the family and at the same time how you develop your own artwork at the time, and can you tell us uh stories or or things that describe those years? Well, my favorite subjects in drawing were um cowboys and. Horses and

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cattle. Uh, later on. I uh. When I was um During my school, wait a minute. After finishing high school. I, uh, studied lettering and uh. And started to paint signs. For a living. And that was in Southern California. And uh I think because of my drawing

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I picked up lettering pretty fast. And uh Later on, I I, uh, resumed sign painting again up in Seattle and joined the uh. Saint vendors union affiliate of um. The International Brotherhood of painters and decorators. There we go. Well, um, Getting back to your childhood, uh.

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Did you imagine yourself as being an artist then, or was this merely a, uh, no, no, I that was my intention to be an artist to be an artist, yeah. What was the reaction of your parents? Did you announce this to your parents? Well, my my

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mother was uh. There's a great encouragement and uh. Her attitude was very positive. My father was too, however, he said. Uh, It's a good thing to do, but you never make a living at it. Um response. I'd have to make a living with something else and

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just use this on, do this on the side, but. I um This is sort of jumping ahead a little bit. But I I painted Signs for living for a while in Seattle and then while we were there. I um That was in the early Middle 1930s.

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I um Was accepted on the WA art project in Seattle. And I was on this project for a couple of years. And then uh After after that was liquidated, I painted signs a while. And then uh My wife and I moved to New York City. And

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for the next 30 years, my main. Profession was advertising art and art for publishers, designing book jackets and illustrating. And uh Working on catalogs things of that sort, yeah, we've got a lot of questions I might uh mention something else that's extremely important. About earning a

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living. My Father and brother and I. Periodically from the time I was. 8 or 9 years old and for the next. 20 years more or less, we would periodically become agricultural workers. When uh We were uh jobless and uh. Had no uh carpenter work to do,

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for example. And we uh we picked uh. Peaches and apricots in in Southern California, grapes and. Mendocino County, Northern California. And beans and prunes and. And uh hops in Oregon. And uh Peaches and uh pears and strawberries and. Washington State, Pure all up around up and

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also Yakima Valley and uh. That gave us a really a very. Good picture of uh. Of how the Migrant farmers and the, the just the uh the uh. Refugees from the dust Bowl. Of Oklahoma and Kansas and Arkansas. How they strive to make a living. Well,

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I know that made a big impression on your, your own because uh that theme emerges in your, your grands. Do do you uh feel during that period were, were you exposed to, uh, the like the wass were very active in the, the migrant, uh, fields? Uh,

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were you exposed to any of the thinking of the IWW or some of the other political movements of that period? Uh, my father. He worked in the woods for a while and uh. Pacific Northwest area yeah around Grays Harbor and uh naturally he knew lots of

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wobblies. And Who do you work for? Wehauser or or what, uh, I don't remember the, uh, I don't remember the. The lumber companies. On Grace Harbor. Uh, he might have been on IWW for a while, I don't know. But he was, uh, he was sympathetic to

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their. To their uh Problems. Did he, uh, uh, was he in the area during the Everett, uh, massacre? I'm not sure. I, uh, I just. Can't place that date. Yeah, that was in the late teens. It was about 1919 uh. 16, 1970. Yeah, I think he

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was in Grays Harbor before he was, yeah. Did he ever talk about the Wobblies to you? Oh yes, yeah. What did he say? Well, he, I think his opinion was that um. They should organize, but they shouldn't uh. A strike was all right, but destruction of

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property was not good. That was a big issue, a sabotage issue. So, but he did not, what, what did he feel about uh signing contracts? I never heard him mention that mention that, because that, that was another thing were against those contracts. Did he, did he

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Your father interests me, uh, did he, um. Did he consciously uh try to. Like convert you to the radical life. Or to a radical vision, I mean, as your, as his kids. Did he feel that, uh, I mean, was he committed to the point to which

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he felt that he would proselytize radicalism in the family? Uh, it wasn't that uh. Definite, he, he just wanted to educate like he'd educate. Like he educated students in school. Right Yeah. Well, did he have a, did he have, did he have any, uh, or he

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can't convey to you and sort of the, the solution to some of the social problems that he saw around here? In any specific way. You know, you know, you said you, you admired Debs. Uh, did he pretty much accept that that against socialism as the solution

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to the problems, or, or did he or did he not have a clear worked out idea or or what? No, he, he was, um. He was um