00:00:03.730 - 00:00:24.319

your name and uh and a date and your address and whatever you want just yeah yeah well um my name is Vaughan Love. And uh I was born December 5th, 1907. Uh, in Dayton, Tennessee, that this is probably a well-known place because this is where the

00:00:24.319 - 00:00:47.919

slopestris were held in 19, I think it's 1925 for the teaching of the, uh, theory of evolution. OK, um, You were born in Dayton, Tennessee. Yeah, well, um, uh, this picture, what was that, uh, inherit the Wind, I showed this, but uh, it gave the wrong

00:00:47.919 - 00:01:04.150

impression, uh, I think, uh, the impression that people got was that this was a real hick situation because all of these, uh, cooks came around and they made it appear that everybody was praying all day and hallelujah this and that, but, uh, Dayton, Tennessee was, uh,

00:01:04.160 - 00:01:19.050

probably the one of the most progressive towns in the whole United States. Uh, I think that the time that I was born, I, uh, the things things way way things were going in 1910, I, I would imagine that uh that would have been complete integration. Because

00:01:19.050 - 00:01:33.000

uh there was a, uh, there was never any racism. I mean I never had a feeling of oppression, uh, uh, the white people I knew were people that I was brought up with and all through life and if I go back now, I mean that would

00:01:33.000 - 00:01:50.059

be. They would be seeking after me to to find out how things work. For instance, when I would go, uh, to the store to, to, uh, shop for my grandmother, uh, the you can tell when people are sincere, you know, and, uh, the lady, uh, owned

00:01:50.059 - 00:02:05.059

the store, she would, you know, try to test me how I'm doing in history, you know, ask about current events in this kind of thing, and also, uh, there were, uh, people who later became prominent in the town, you know. Uh, the local gentry, the, the

00:02:05.059 - 00:02:26.520

land owners and whatnot. And uh my grandfather was at that time, my grandfather was. saloon keeper, he had a saloon and a pool room and a gambling joint and they catered to uh black and white. Negro and white uh uh workers, you see, this was at

00:02:26.520 - 00:02:53.259

the time was uh quite an industrial center. This was when I was born in 1907, there was uh. Uh, furnished, iron furnace, coke ovens and um. Mines And and But what they call it, this is where they get the uh. The, the limestone, the limestone quarry.

00:02:53.610 - 00:03:06.630

Now all of this, all of these, uh, the elements that go into making iron. So, uh, this was quite, it was a natural, you know, for, for iron making. Everything was right there close at hand, although the iron was came from up the river, but it

00:03:06.630 - 00:03:25.300

came down the river in in barges and it was an ideal situation, and this was owned by the Tennessee Coal and Iron Company and um. All those lots, there were lots of Negroes and whites working together and for all many, many years and uh they all

00:03:25.300 - 00:03:47.820

with of course there were other uh saloons and but uh my grandfather had very large following. And I remember when I was about 4 years old. And I used to go into the pool room and. I was somewhat of a Of the curiosity because at that

00:03:47.820 - 00:04:02.679

age I would read I could read the paper, read the newspaper because we had such a big family and I were 14. My grandfather had 14 children. Yeah, no, no, no, no, I was born sort of, uh, and added to the family. My mother was a

00:04:02.679 - 00:04:17.329

young kid when I was born and I was brought up with my grandmother, yeah. And uh of course uh I don't know it it it wouldn't do any good to tell you the story of my actually my father knows this because this is really far out,

00:04:17.450 - 00:04:33.500

you know, because my father's father, my father was a young kid too, you see, and, uh, he was about 16, my mother was about 15, but my father was a real punk because he was the son of a baron. And he treated him, he had all

00:04:33.500 - 00:04:50.040

of the killings, you know, he had gratitude and this kind of a thing. But uh it came through, you know, my, my father was, uh, he had all of the uh. The outlook, you know, of, of, of the upper, yeah, I was, I'm just saying that

00:04:50.040 - 00:05:04.480

the, the, the situation there was quite, uh, quite remote from what it was. I remember when we used to talk about the South, you know, that wasn't where we lived. That was a few miles down, maybe 40 miles away from the Georgia state line, and you're

00:05:04.480 - 00:05:21.760

going to Georgia in a different world, you see. Tennessee, they, they voted. Uh, forever, I know you a historian, you know, uh, what happened in Eastern Tennessee. Eastern Tennessee was Yankee territory, and they fought on the side of the Union. And uh well of course the

00:05:21.760 - 00:05:38.299

uh the reconstruction program didn't have to apply to Tennessee because they got automatically they got land, the mastery, but my great great grandfather, he got half of all of his master's land and the master was a, was an officer in the Union Army and uh my,

00:05:38.440 - 00:06:02.970

my, my from my uh. From my uh When Grandmother's, my grandfather's side, yeah, Sam, Sam McDonald was my great great grandfather. That's what I was talking about. But from my grandmother's side, my grandmother's side, from my grandfather's side, he was the, uh, well, he, his father

00:06:02.970 - 00:06:21.040

was white, uh, uh, a prominent landowner, not a landowner, but he was a businessman, entrepreneur, and, uh, his mother was the daughter of her master. This guy had 3 children, this is which. He had 3 children with this woman and she lived in the house with

00:06:21.040 - 00:06:37.950

them in the master's house and she had 3 children and he had other kids too. And uh these three girls were given deeds for 250 acres of land each before he died. I mean he had this in his will and he died before the war. He

00:06:37.950 - 00:06:51.149

died before the Civil War, but they had the deeds to their land and their freedom, you know, which would have been automatic, I suppose, but since the mother was a slave, I suppose they had to have the freedom because as it was, the old lady, his

00:06:51.149 - 00:07:03.359

wife tried to sell them. And uh they were picked up, you know, they were in a wagon and the and the and the Sherman soldiers saw them on the road, you know, and, you know, curious about, you know, because they were foraging for food all the

00:07:03.359 - 00:07:17.269

time because, you know, they had to feed the soldiers, you know, anything that they see that they, they take it, you know, they were taking the food and any anything they needed the livestock, uh, so they looked in the wagon and uh they see these girls,

00:07:17.320 - 00:07:30.059

but they were white. You know, say that 1 16th, you know, but see, they would have brought a very big price on the market because they were, you know, they were in those days there were nocturros and quadros and ladders and things for concubines, you know,

00:07:30.260 - 00:07:42.459

for that purpose. So, uh, they told us that these are ***, you take they have to take them back, you know, she had to bring them back in the Tennessee. She was on the way to Mississippi with these girls, you know, but anyway, they can, they,

00:07:42.540 - 00:07:55.920

they, they, they, they live there today. They still have the land. Well, this was, this was now the grandfather. I'm trying to get this, this is the grandfather that you were raised with Jim Love Jim Jim Jim Love was your grandfather. He was my grandfather and

00:07:55.920 - 00:08:15.450

then these women you're talking about were his mother or his his, his, uh, was, uh, Jim Love's mother and grandmother and Jim Love's mother was one of the kids. She was about 12 years old at that time. 12 years old, uh, no, maybe she was about,

00:08:15.660 - 00:08:33.229

yeah, no, but at that time Jim love was, she was about 15 years old because Jim was born when she was 15, so that was a year of surrender, that's what they say, a year of surrender, so, uh. They kept, Jim's family kept the land and

00:08:33.229 - 00:08:49.799

they, they, they still there, but the other girls uh sold and they moved away. Now one of them. Became white and uh I don't know about the other they you know of course Jim could have, you know, but Jim didn't even leave the South and he

00:08:49.799 - 00:09:00.719

still didn't consider himself. Well, I know if he considered he couldn't be Jim Crow. He did everything he wanted to do and you couldn't do a damn thing about it because he, he killed 3 people. How many acres did he have by then when you were

00:09:00.719 - 00:09:14.619

growing up? s? No, Jim didn't have that. The others of the family. She had about 14 kids after Jim. Jim was the first one. So she had a whole bunch of kids. Now they're on the land there near, near Knoxville and Maudon County. They're all there

00:09:14.619 - 00:09:27.400

and they always tell them that, so why don't you come home back home and, you know, and, and, and, and, uh. And and settle down, but I, I don't want. This is very prosperous territory, you know, because that's the TVA in there. It's terrific, you know,

00:09:27.450 - 00:09:38.840

that land is very valuable, but nobody can own it. You can't, uh, you can't get that land. You see that there's thousands, thousands of heirs, you know, to it, so there's no way, but you could go there and you could live because it's very river bottom

00:09:38.840 - 00:10:00.190

land can you see very rich, uh. Joyce Tennessee about the land. All right, so that's, uh, that's so much for that, but um. Uh, I wanna give the atmosphere in this town because, uh, uh, nobody, nobody would ever use the word ***, and, uh, we were

00:10:00.190 - 00:10:15.950

always harassed, you see, by others who would come in from Georgia, Mississippi, you know, and, and, and, and you'd say, you know, I, I, I, uh, go into the store, you know, and, and, uh, guy named Roy. It's Roy Roy wants this to some white person

00:10:15.950 - 00:10:33.400

in that come from out of town, you know, uh, Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama somewhere, and he'd say, say Mr. Roy, what do you mean say Mr. Roy, it's Roy this. So, uh, 11 day a guy, uh, twisted my arm and tried to make me say Mr. Roy,

00:10:33.869 - 00:10:47.539

and, and, and, uh. The, the owner of the store owner looked at the man and said, Man, this is Jim Love boy. And when the guy turned purple because you know you can't be Robert Jim Love's kid, you know. And another time I was with a

00:10:47.539 - 00:10:59.419

kid to, to, we never, we never, you know, flunk it around with white people, you know, because there were people who used to, you know, bounce great and this kind of a thing, but my grandmother didn't permit it, but I went with a kid, uh, to

00:10:59.419 - 00:11:14.330

do some work for women. You know, like cleaning out the attic, the basement, you know, and beating rails, this kind of thing and cutting the grass. So she promised us $2 and a half to do this work. So time came the next day to pay us

00:11:14.330 - 00:11:31.739

off. So the woman came out, so gloves and baseballs and this kind of stuff. So uh She gave me some things and we give the boy a pair of old shoes and stuff, so I told the lady, I said. Yeah you, you said I was supposed

00:11:31.739 - 00:11:48.369

to get $2 and a half, she says, well. That's more than $2 and a half. And she says, why are you so smoo? He says, What's your name? I told her my name was more love. She says, So you Jim loves kid? I said, Yeah. She

00:11:48.369 - 00:12:03.669

says, Well, don't you ever work for me anymore. She paid me to do I I. OK. And um what was his working if he wasn't on the land? What was he? He was the Jim, Jim had this he had this saloon he did the saloon I've

00:12:03.669 - 00:12:29.580

had. And uh well, the saloon uh prospered, I think 1912. And uh the Tennessee code and I, you see. I think uh I don't remember now exactly what it was. I think, no, uh the uh United States Steel was organized, I think in 1911, so they

00:12:29.950 - 00:12:48.919

bought over they merged with. Uh JC I United States to go that was JP Morgan, is that JP Morgan. So, uh, uh, this was, I don't know, I, I would suspect that it was competitive with, with them, otherwise they wouldn't have taken it over, but, uh,

00:12:48.929 - 00:13:06.539

the first thing they did was close it, close it down. And uh the town reverted back to to agriculture because uh. That was, I mean, that was the reason why all of these new people had come in. They just the whole towns. North part of Dayton.

00:13:06.739 - 00:13:20.690

Dayton became North Dayton South Dayton, and then there was Morgantown that was where my grandfather, great great grandfather lived. That was this his family. They own this land in there and they own a lot of the, uh, uh, mineral lands, you know, the, the, the coal.

00:13:21.659 - 00:13:34.099

So, so when he, when he gave this uh half of this land, you know, he had to, to my great great grandfather who Sam. We had a whole mountain. We had a mountain. We do have the mountain. It has the coal in it and it has

00:13:34.099 - 00:13:44.630

the prime D. Now if you buy land down there now, you don't get the mineral rights, but this is the prime D and it has the mineral. So I, some of my uncles used to dig coal out of there during the Depression, you know, it's a

00:13:44.630 - 00:13:55.690

dangerous proposition, you know, you see that the coal going there, but if you're going too deep, you know, you gotta use the proper timbering and all the rest of it, you know, so, uh, they were taking chances and they making good money, you know, it was

00:13:55.690 - 00:14:09.099

just outcropping coal when you go in that deep, you find this real. was black coal, but this was mixed with reds and so on the outcry when it was cold, it would burn, you know. Well, all the people that took off, you know, and going in

00:14:09.099 - 00:14:25.690

all the different, uh, parts of the world. They went into, um, The Kentucky coal fields and uh the uh West Virginia. To the steel mills in Gary, Indiana and all the rest. A few people went to went to Besner. They had works in Bes Obama in

00:14:25.690 - 00:14:44.119

the United States field. And um My family, uh, my mother. Uh, try to take me to Oklahoma, to Oklahoma field to field, and uh. I raised hell. I was about 3 years old, but they knew I would die. I mean, they just, they just couldn't pacify

00:14:44.119 - 00:14:57.559

me. They had to bring me back to Tennessee, and, uh, I stayed with my grandmother. My my mother didn't go back to to Oklahoma. They went to Kentucky into the, uh, the Hazard, Kentucky, the Pineville, Kentucky, all of this business, you know, this went on there,

00:14:57.840 - 00:15:13.869

so they worked for a while there. My kids, my sisters and brothers were born in, and, and, uh. Well in Kentucky that was near hazard. And uh well, Uh, later on when my grandmother died, I went to live with my, my mother and kids, you know,

00:15:13.919 - 00:15:32.239

with the, with the stepfather. But before that, I, uh, went to school in Tennessee with all this, this big family, and we really, we had a picnic, you know, my grandmother was, she was, I suppose about the smartest woman you ever saw. She never, she didn't

00:15:32.239 - 00:15:54.750

have a formal education, but she learned to read and write from the children. And um she was, as I say from this line of uh Sam. Wife who was uh uh Blackfoot. And I, I don't know how much Sam knew, uh, uh, about culture of African

00:15:54.750 - 00:16:09.510

culture, whatnot because he was brought away from the Carolinas by his, uh, master as a dowry from the from the from the McDonald's side. Now she married a Morgan, but, uh, he was from the McDonald side, you see, so his wife's name was Sam McDonald, but

00:16:09.510 - 00:16:33.219

the, the master was named Morgan, but she was her family called Sam into the picture, her family, yeah, so, uh. So uh what was I gonna say, uh. We, yeah, well my grandmother was, uh, she knew every plant in, in, in the mountains. She knew every

00:16:33.909 - 00:16:52.150

from the ins they knew that, so they knew that they were, they knew the names and they knew if they were edible and some plants were used as medicine and all of this she could, uh. Um, she could. Butcher a uh a cow, you know, a

00:16:52.150 - 00:17:11.088

beef, uh, slaughter a hog, and cut out the hand, cure the hen. She could take the hide, she could, uh, cure it, make leather, uh. Well this she was that these, these people were pioneers. They know they didn't they uh they did everything she could, uh,

00:17:11.168 - 00:17:24.010

you know, when you have a pig. You got a certain, we get a certain age, a male pig, you've got to alter that pig, you know, so that the, the, the glands don't spoil the taste of the meat because that, that odor goes all the way

00:17:24.010 - 00:17:36.119

through. You could take a, you could, uh, uh, slaughter a boar hog, you know, you ba bacon a ham and by God you couldn't, you couldn't live with it with it, you know, it's so strong, you know, but, uh, this all this they could do because

00:17:36.369 - 00:17:58.640

they have a lot of livestock. In those days, and they were breeding of mules and horses, uh, for, for, for work. And Sam, that was his business. Old grandpa Sam was uh uh. A horse trainer, he could take the wildest horse and in 2 weeks have

00:17:58.640 - 00:18:16.609

been working riding, plowing, you know, carrying a a a wagon. And uh it was uh it was a thing that uh everybody can't do. You have to have a certain nature, uh, a certain approach because uh he didn't beat the horse. There's a certain way you

00:18:16.609 - 00:18:38.160

could psych him some way. I don't know how he did, but he told his sons, all of his sons became horsemen. Yes, his sons became horsemen and they did what they call moon skinners. And they drove these uh uh overland. Wagon overland transport from Knoxville, Tennessee

00:18:38.160 - 00:18:57.660

over to Washington DC. See those days, the, the, the transport up the Mississippi River. Come all the way from New Orleans. Come up to Mississippi, up to, uh, to Cairo, Illinois. Down from Cairo, Illinois down to Paducah and from Cairo, it gets this Ohio River, it's

00:18:57.660 - 00:19:13.699

down to Paducah, down from Paducah into the Tennessee River and the Tennessee River goes down through Tennessee, comes up through Alabama, and comes up through Tennessee again up to Knoxville. Now this, this, I don't know, it's a couple of weeks' time, you know, and, uh. Uh,

00:19:13.780 - 00:19:33.260

they take it off the the uh boats. In Knoxville and then would transport over over land to uh into across Virginia into Washington DC and they used to drive these wagons and these were black free men. The mother was free, you see, and of course you

00:19:33.260 - 00:19:46.170

cannot, you cannot enslave an Indian kids, you know, that was, that was the rule. But of course, even then I don't know from the relationship that Sam had with his master. Because he was a slave, but, uh, you read this, you saw this thing in, in,

00:19:46.250 - 00:19:59.010

in roots, yeah, but see, he was a technical person and he made a lot of money. I mean he didn't just work for his master, but he was, he could break anybody's heart. He said so he was a moneymaker and uh of course he was a

00:19:59.010 - 00:20:14.920

very, very valuable person and and an ordinary slave, uh, which was not the situation in, in Eastern Tennessee because this was not. Uh, deep slave territory. There was business in industry, commerce and all the rest of it, and there's a lot of, a lot of different

00:20:14.920 - 00:20:31.530

relationships going on as far as, uh, racial relations and so on, and, uh, it wasn't, uh, it wasn't the typical situation. It was in other parts of the United States, yeah. So, um, tell me about, uh, what, uh, Dayton, Tennessee was like at the time of

00:20:31.530 - 00:20:44.089

the Scopes trial. Were you living there then? No, I wasn't there at that time, but I went back later on. I see. I went back after that. When did you leave Dayton? I, I left Dayton in uh in 21, but I was back when my mother

00:20:44.089 - 00:21:02.140

died. My mother died in um in 25, so I went back and uh. I had one more year to high school to go. I was all state quarterback in high school. in West Virginia in football. And when I went down that road, money was plentiful in

00:21:02.140 - 00:21:16.489

West Virginia, but in Tennessee, you couldn't get a job for anything. So I went back to Dayton after my mother died and I, uh. Organized the football team. You see, they had a white Ray County. This was Ray County. It was the county seat of Ray

00:21:16.489 - 00:21:33.829

County, Ray County, Tennessee. So I, uh, uh, organized the, the football team of the, uh, with the kids, and they had already had, you know, sunlight and the, the Ray County Whites who always had a football team, and they did very good. But uh they didn't

00:21:33.829 - 00:21:54.099

have uh well there's no, no, no budget for that, you know, coach and whatnot, but I organized these kids and I scheduled games with Knoxville, Chattanooga, and Harriman, Rockwood, you know. And uh so I have a very close uh schedule for for uh for a game

00:21:54.099 - 00:22:11.750

with Chattanooga. And uh so uh no hell we haven't thought this thing through thoroughly, but I went over to uh to the high school, the Ray County High School, and the principal was named Patton. Now you see, when I was a kid, young kid, they lived

00:22:11.750 - 00:22:25.989

close by us, and, and uh of course I was a small kid, but they used to play the Patton Boys used to play in our I used to play marbles, you know, and baseball and everything, and because you had, we have close by close neighbors. Our

00:22:25.989 - 00:22:41.069

next door neighbor was white family, you know, and, uh, it was never, it was no questions weren't Jim Crow, schools, schools were Jim Crow, but that was something that was. Friction because the Negro school was up the north part and the high schools in south part

00:22:41.069 - 00:22:51.949

and the kids have to pass each other every morning and it was always something, always, always, but it never, you know, it never grew into anything big. The kids get skinned, you know, by their family, the whites from the same, same way as the colored, you

00:22:51.949 - 00:23:03.430

know, so, uh, you know, they, you know how kids would do. So, uh, uh, we used to have fights, but the white kids and the black kids from North bring the white kids and the black kids from the south, you know, the southern part, you know,

00:23:03.550 - 00:23:20.140

all this kind of a thing. So, um I looked, I, I, uh, he, he recognized me. Because see, there was a legend around me because of this relationship that I had and it had been some kind of a deal, uh, uh, a scandal over my birth,

00:23:20.219 - 00:23:34.290

you see, because, uh, uh, of this relationship, you know, this, this barren, you know, and of course, you know, a small town like that, you know, this thing goes, so they, they, they recognized he recognized me right or maybe this is Jim Love's grandson, you know,

00:23:34.699 - 00:23:48.599

and, uh. So he, uh, uh, I told him what what we wanted, you know, I asked him if he had, uh, you know, we had this game schedule, of course they could see me practicing, but now he says, uh, I told him we, we need some,

00:23:48.609 - 00:24:02.439

uh. Football stuff we don't have anything. I wonder if you had some, uh, old stuff, you know, that they discarded, you know, because in West Virginia we had piles of it, you know, because we used to get $18,000 a year just for the, for the team,

00:24:02.479 - 00:24:15.650

you know, you get to do uniforms and all this stuff. Of the year because in West Virginia they had a very big subsidy out of the royalties for coal, you know, and of course they had nothing there and especially a poor county you gotta have two

00:24:15.650 - 00:24:29.949

schools, you know, it was just too much, you know, so somebody's gonna go lacking. Well, he says, why don't you bring the boys over on the side and, and, and, and, and, and, and we'll dress them up. Yeah, OK, so, all right, so we, I figured,

00:24:29.989 - 00:24:47.800

you know, we would go there and we fish around, we'll find stuff, you know, and thank God when we went over there on a Saturday, they dressed us up. You know, whatever fits you of, of, of the regular high school football shoes, sweaters, shoulder pads every

00:24:47.800 - 00:25:02.030

damn thing else, you know, I was so damn surprised, you know, I mean this is the, the whole business, you know, for instance, in the South, a lot of it was wasn't in Dayton, you go into the store, you know, and, and try with any hat

00:25:02.030 - 00:25:12.439

in there and shoes and then you buy what you want if you don't wanna buy, but when I was in, in, in the arm. in Petersburg, Virginia, Negroes couldn't go into certain streets because you wanna try on a hat and they don't want that, you know.

00:25:12.689 - 00:25:25.280

But here was the whole story, you know, you put on the whole damn uniform and, uh, you go ahead and play football, but you know, uh, all these kids, they felt big, you know, they never had on a uniform before, you know, when you play football,

00:25:25.380 - 00:25:41.650

you not you get your ears pinned back, but you don't have any helmet or anything, you know, so, uh. Well, I, I suspect that they felt so big, you know, with these that they just couldn't be beaten. We beat Chattanooga and they had been carrying on

00:25:41.650 - 00:26:03.359

a schedule for years and years. We beat them, so, uh, well, uh. There was such a clamor at that time. To bring me, my uncle Obi, and uh this kid was when uh uh uh a kid that uh was a Ban Albert Betram. Uh, there's a

00:26:03.359 - 00:26:14.949

story on him I'll give it to you later, uh, and some of the others, uh. You know, the outstanding kids on the team, we gotta have you on our team, you know, but it, it, it didn't occur to them, you know, they, they couldn't have, of

00:26:14.949 - 00:26:25.170

course, if they put a demand in it, you know, I mean this is a notion that, that, that, that Southern people have whatever they want, they can have it, you know, if he wants a Negro woman, he can have it, you know. So they want these

00:26:25.170 - 00:26:35.859

Negro kids on the football team, so they should be able to do it, you know, but this is a state law, you know, but uh, they would have done it in Dayton, you know, but, uh, well, of course they had to tell me you, you, you,

00:26:36.050 - 00:26:55.359

you can't do it, but maybe someday, but when actually when it did happen. It didn't, uh, uh, you know, when the law was changed. Uh, I had been down there visiting and I told my uncle, you know, why don't you integrate the schools. And all the

00:26:55.359 - 00:27:07.780

hymns and hall, you know, well, you know, these kids, they, you know, the, the negro kids are back, you know, they're not, they, they, they can't keep up with the white kids. In other words, they figured, you know, they, they find themselves so far behind, you

00:27:07.780 - 00:27:25.439

know, would lose interest in this and that, you know, the standard, you know, so, so they, they were afraid to, to, to venture. But At this time when the, the, the school was open, they were registered in in the Negro schools and then the other schools

00:27:25.439 - 00:27:40.439

registered some Negro kid that lived near the white high school. And he just took the bull by the hand and went over and registered, so they took, gave me the red carpet, you know, the nice stuff, so he came over to the Negro school. And he

00:27:40.439 - 00:27:50.140

told another kid, you know, so this other kid goes along, you know, he went, he's already registered in the Negro school. So he goes over to register to go back together a lot of them and so on, you know. So then they went over the, the,

00:27:50.280 - 00:28:06.375

the, the, uh, county board went over and closed the school, brought all the kids over to the, to the high school, you know, yeah, and, uh, the teachers all, you know, but there was one Negro. Teacher that wasn't up to standard some class there so they

00:28:06.614 - 00:28:23.175

didn't they recommended that she would take more schooling. In the meantime they went to the adjoining county in in Hamilton County or the county of Chattanooga, and they got one other Negro teacher and they had the same number of teachers and they, uh, that was in

00:28:23.175 - 00:28:42.359

uh. Oh, that was the year of the integration 54, was it 54? Yeah, yeah, that was the year we did, but they didn't integrate, you see, they, they, they, they, yeah, but in the meantime, the teachers were in first grade, first grade, the Negro teachers dedicated.

00:28:43.680 - 00:29:01.109

And in most cases they had higher qualifications than the white teachers. The kids did better than the white kids, you know, after all, you're dealing with Appalachian kids. So, uh, the Negro kids were really stood very high in their, in their qualifications, you know, and there

00:29:01.109 - 00:29:19.619

were no problems now. But in the southern schools they had uh uh basketball for for girls, girls basketball. So my couple of my cousins had try out for the team, so one of the cousins made the team. So I was asking her, you know, how she

00:29:19.619 - 00:29:33.810

made out. Of course they played in Carolina and all the places in Tennessee and Alabama, and, uh, she's, I asked her how she makes up with these other kids, you know, she's fair, but she, you could see she's a Negro girl, you know, and well built,

00:29:33.939 - 00:29:52.390

you know, she, she says there's a lot of hair pulling, but I do a lot of it myself. And uh it was this was uh. Indication of uh of what the, what the situation had changed to uh well of course it could have happened. 20 years,

00:29:52.430 - 00:30:06.020

30 years earlier, it could have happened, as I said in 1910. I see it could have happened, and this was the attitude of the people that did you have any contact with your father's family then this side? Well, now the other side of this, uh, uh,

00:30:06.030 - 00:30:23.530

of this banal, Fritz banal, it was the other side. Now he came to this country, I don't know, somewhere after the FrancoPrussian War or something like that, and he. Uh, my grandmother, my father's mother, she was a widow. She had two other kids. So this guy

00:30:23.530 - 00:30:42.609

took up with her. And she had this son, they call him Frederick Douglass Roddy, and my, my grandmother's name is Mag Roddy. She had been married to a roti and she had these other two kids. Jeff and Bertha Roddy. So Uh, her husband died, so she

00:30:42.609 - 00:31:05.189

took up with this, this baron, and she had this kid, Frederick Douglas Roddy, and then he married a white woman. And then he had 3 kids by her. Yeah, uh A beanie and and and uh. Katie and and Beckett. Now these kids grew up. Very close

00:31:05.189 - 00:31:22.150

to us. And these are my aunts And you know, when I was a youngster, they used to all the kids, you know, the girls used to all the girls were my sweethearts, you know, and I was a spoiled brat, you know, and, uh. They moved away.

00:31:23.770 - 00:31:41.699

And uh somehow they when they got married, they married into upper strata of the Tennessee culinary Company and then when they merged. Uh, they went to, uh, to the Alabama Birmingham and Desma, so they used to come. They had an aunt who lived there in Dayton,

00:31:41.849 - 00:31:52.229

and they used to come back to visit the aunt, and they always used to come to visit me. Now Burkin, he stayed there. He became a catcher in the football in, in, in, in the, uh, uh.